M
1049
Slavery.
"In certain regions of Central Africa (e.g., in parts of the French Cameroons) children are obliged to do work which is beyond their strength and which causes them physical harm
In addi-
1050
[ LORDS ]
Slavery,
indigenous, rooted in ideas largely re- ligibus, and there have arisen also, what we had not a hundred year ago, in- sidious forms of slavery stimulated by industrial development and backed by economic pressure.
tion, women and children are sometimes obliged to help in heavy labour connected with road-making, supervised by native chiefs."
How the Convention is to be made effective as to these subsidiary forms of slavery is a very great question.
We have been told that about forty States have adhered to the Convention, but the League cannot deal with abuses of this kind without the advice of men of administrative experience. All that I have quoted illustrates the great com- plexity of the question, and seems to me to show that
imperatively progress requires such a bureau as has been sketched to-day. The function of pro- viding technical examination of reports will be very valuable. The Convention binds its signatories to furnish reports, but before these can go to the Council or the Assembly they evidently require an examination which they cannot get to-day. Again, the function of advising States of the steps which are taken by other States requires a clearing-house of information. Information which is merely thrown at the head of the Secre- tariat, as it must be to-day, is not utilised. It comes home to one, if one sees the official now concerned with deal- ing with slavery information, how greatly a department is lacking. At present it is referred to the Mandates Department, and action awaits the fitting machinery. It is melancholy to reflect that a whole century has elapsed since British libera- tion took place. It took forty years of strenuous agitation to end British slavery and the slave trade. It was a tremendous task, but it was simple in one way because the agitators had to deal witlı our own Government alone. It was a very great event in history, and in con- firmation of what has been said to-day it is interesting to recall the words of Mr. Lecky when he said:
"The crusade of England against slavery may probably be regarded as among the three or four perfectly virtuous acts recorded in the history of nations."
To-day the problem, as we have heard, is greatly changed. The influence of States which preserve slavery to-day is based upon the fact that slavery is there
Lord Noel-Buxton.
But in one way the problem is much simpler, because we have the League to act; and action by the League avoids the odium of interference by a single State and it saves the face of the State. which needs reform. Our own Govern ment, as has been said, has acted with vigour, and let us hope that it will con- tinue to do so till success is attained. In doing so, it has been true to the tradition of this country, which is based on the fact that it has very often been the leader in movements for liberation. To succeed it needs the backing of a keen public opinion. I think we may say that the noble Earl who introduced this debate has fully expressed the public opinion of the British race the opinion that slavery must without delay be brought to an end.
EARL BUXTON: My Lords, perhaps I might say one or two words in reply. May I thank noble Lords in the House for the way they have received this Resolution, and especially the Leader of the House for what he has said with re- gard to the action of the Government in one or two matters? In listening to the debate I recalled to memory the bio- graphy of my grandfather, and I traced in my mind the difference between the reception that he had in his time and that which I have received in mine. He was received during the ten years he was endeavouring to deal with this ques- tion with the greatest misrepresentation, with vile abuse and with all sorts of insinuations. I receive bouquets; he
received brickbats. I think that is in- dicative of the enormous change which has taken place in regard to this matter.
There are several points on which I should like to say something, but I do not wish to detain your Lordships at this time of the evening, and so I will only deal with two matters. The first is in reference to what the noble and learned Lord the Leader of the House has said about slaves going between Abyssinia and Arabia. In my speech I ventured to remark that co-operation between France, Italy and ourselves was
1051 British Sugar Industry
greatly required. I was very glad to hear the noble and learned Lord say in reply that that co-operation is now very cordial, and we may hope it will be effective.
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[22 JULY 1931 ]
(Assistance) Bill. about. It was decided to do so by in- creasing the new smaller subsidy—that is, the subsidy of 6s, 6d. by ls. 3d. per cwt. Very stringent conditions are attached to that increase. Firstly, the extra sub- sidy is not payable at all in so far as sugar prices rise above 78. 9d.-that means a rise in price of 18. 3d. above what the price is now. Every penny that the world price of sugar rises comes out of this scheme for increasing the subsidy.
The other point is one raised by the noble Viscount, Lord Cecil, in reference to what he called direct interference with sovereign States. I do not know whether he heard my speech, but I referred to hat especially-exactly, I think, from the point of view he expressed. I said that in all these cases the danger that there would be a feeling of interference with the sovereign independence of Mem- bers of the League of Nations was a thing which must be clearly guarded against, but, at the same time, if you had a bureau of this description, you would have a body which would be able to assist those desirous of dealing with slavery in their own countries. I agree with him that that is a danger to be guarded against, or rather, I would put it in this way, that the difficulty of getting these proposals accepted by the League of Nations is the danger of a feeling of interference. I feel sure that the Government will give to this point the attention desired by the noble Vis- count, because I am sure it is an im- portant point in getting these proposals accepted by the League. I am much obliged to the noble and learned Lord.
On Question, motion agreed to.
BRITISH SUGAR INDUSTRY (ASSISTANCE) BILL. Order of the Day for the Second Read- ing read.
THE
PARLIAMENTARY SECRE- TARY OF THE MINISTRY OF AGRICUL- TURE AND FISHERIES (EARL DE LA WARR): My Lords, this is a Bill to deal with an emergency that occurred in the beet sugar industry last year owing to the fact that the drop in the price of sugar from 11s. 7d., I think, in 1928, to 98. 2d. in 1929 and then to 6s. 6d. in 1930 coincided with the halving of the beet sugar subsidy, that is, a reduction from 138. to 68. 6d. These two reductions, coming together, created a situation which the industry was unable to meet. The Government, therefore, decided that it would be necessary to alleviate to some extent the situation thereby brought
Actually the cost of the scheme would be something over £200,000, but for every penny that the price of sugar rises between now and the initiation of this scheme we save £15,000. Not only that, but if the price of sugar rises sufficiently next year to justify us in so doing, this extra subsidy will be recoverable out of the next year's payment of subsidy to the factories. The factories have undertaken in return to see that every penny of the subsidy goes to the
growers.
They have undertaken that they will pay no dividend and make no provision for depreciation while they are in receipt of this subsidy. Not only have the factories made this sacrifice in order to keep the industry going-because most certainly the industry could not have been kept going unless some such step had been taken-but the growers themselves have also had to meet a very heavy reduction in price. Whereas last year they were receiving 52s. 4d. for beets containing 17 per cent. sugar content, next year they are to receive only 438. Whereas last year they received 468. for beets containing 15 per cent. sugar con- tent, this year they are only to receive 388.
Let me make it quite clear that this Bill does not in any sense raise the general question of whether the beet sugar industry should or should not be assisted. That was settled some years ago-I think in 1925 when the original Bill was introduced. We are simply dis- cussing now whether an industry that was set up by Act of Parliament, and on the development of which this country has already spent vast sums, should be allowed to go under because of one par- ticular year in which this disastrous fall in prices coincided with an equally large fall in the subsidy. At any rate, if any noble Lord is anxious to raise the general principle, I would point out that this proposal of ours only suggests an increase