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Slavery.
Slavery.
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[ LORDS ]
The President later wrote a letter ex-formation which was not accessible to the plaining his views to an American gentle- public, but I was able to make use of man, a friend of mine, who occupies a them in a way which, I understand, was post of responsibility in that country. I completely satisfactory to the Foreign have seen this letter and it is a very
Office and at the same time was invalu- remarkable document, but your Lord- able to the Committee. I very greatly ships, I think, will agree with me that, appreciate the confidence in my dis- cretion which this action of the Foreign pending the report of the special envoys of the League, it would be unwise, if not Office indicated. At the same time, I could not but feel how unfortunate it improper, for me to express any opinion
was that such material-collected, no as to the course which should be adopted, or to forecast the reply of the Liberian doubt, with great effort and trouble- Government. I can only hope that the
would in ordinary circumstances have necessarily remained in the pigeon holes Government of the United States, whose
of the Foreign Office for lack of a suit- citizens have set an example to the world by their generosity in endowing schemes
able body to whom it could be confiden- for the welfare of the backward races, will make perfectly clear the precise ex- tent to which it will exercise its influence and accept responsibility for the unfor- tunate inhabitants of that country, or the extent to which it will co-operate in the action which the League of Nations may propose to adopt.
However valuable a debate on this subject may be for the purpose of awakening and sustaining public interest, it would be still more useful if it in- augurated some practical suggestion. The noble Earl, Lord Buxton, has revived the proposal of His Majesty's Govern- ment that a permanent bureau should be set up to deal with these questions, and I hope that your Lordships will support that proposal. In my view the bureau should be an expert body which will realise where the real objectives lie and will not be carried away by unpractical enthusiasms. It should be capable of giving sound advice both to the League where financial or diplomatic assistance is required, and to applicants who need sympathetic and practical suggestions. It is, in my view, essential that it should not only be an organ of the League but that it should have its location at Geneva and not in any other country. It should be international and small in numbers and endowed with a wide discre- tion as to the measure of publicity which it will accord to the information placed at its disposal.
The Foreign Office placed at my dis- posal, as a member of the International Slavery Committee appointed by the League in 1926 and of the Forced Labour Committee, а number of documents marked
secret." They contained in-
Lord Lugara.
tially communicated. If a small per-
manent committee or a section of the League secretariat, to which two or three unpaid experts might be attached, were set up it would not be unreasonable to hope that the Governments concerned, as in the case I have mentioned, would for- ward to their members confidential docu- ments which might be of great value. trusting to their discretion to use them rightly. I have the honour to support the Resolution of the noble Earl.
LORD PARMOOR: My Lords, on be- half of the Government I beg to thank the noble Earl, Lord Buxton, for the Resolution he proposed, which certainly we would wholly assent to, for the moderate tone which he adopted in pro- posing it, and for the very practical suggestions he made regarding a per- manent body or bureau constituted, as Lord Lugard has said, at Geneva in Order not only that there may be resolu- tions on matters of this kind but that practical and beneficent work may be assured in the future. For the moment I wish to say only one further word upon that point. Fortunately, we have amongst us this afternoon the noble Vis- count, Lord Cecil. Everyone is aware that on matters of this kind the noble Viscount has taken a very prominent position in representing this country at the Assembly at Geneva, and I shall ask him, because his knowledge is much more direct and complete than mine, to deal if he will, with that part of the ques- tion in order that it may not be dis- cussed twice over, which, I think, is un- necessary. I shall attempt to answer the questions asked by the most rev. Primate and by the noble Earl, and will leave to the end the particular point raised by Lord Lugard.
[ 22 JULY 1931 ]
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Slavery.
First of all, I think the whole world and our own country in particular are very deeply indebted to the Anti-Slavery Society for the work they have done in connection with the repression and sup- pression of slavery in all countries during the last 100 years. It is just about 100 years ago that they were first instituted for dealing with these questions, and during that time and up
the present they have done a noble and great work. Upon this point I should like to emphasise a little a matter which was also indicated by the noble Earl. We must aim very directly at the slave owner. I think it is very important in dealing with the question of slavery that the slave owner should be dealt with effectively. If there were no slave owners it goes without saying that we should not be troubled with slave-raiding and other slavery questions. More than that, the slave owner is the person mainly respon- sible, and to give remedies merely to the slave or the suggested slave is very often more than ineffective, because he really cannot find an opportunity of bringing his grievance to public notice and, if he does he knows that he very often suffers immensely in his own position and in the punishment he receives.
With reference to the definition of slavery I want to make clear at the out- set what we are dealing with. I think the definition in the Convention of 1926 is perfectly satisfactory. It bases it on property. As the most rev. Primate pointed out, it is utterly un-Christian from every point of view that one indivi- dual should seek to make property of another for his own profit and advantage. I should also like to remind your Lord- ships what always has appeared to me to be a very admirable definition of slavery-I mean the original definition in the great judgment of Lord Mansfield given in 1772. I think people sometimes forget that Lord Mansfield's decision was an upsetting of former legal opinious in this country, particularly of Lord Hard- wicke and Lord Chancellor Talbot. 1 think Lord Mansfield states the matter more clearly than it has ever been stated since, and I think his words are wholly true. These were his words:
"Slavery is so odious that nothing can be suffered to support it but positive law." Your Lordships may recollect that at that time Somerset was sent for transporta-
Slavery.
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tion for slavery in Jamaica. At that time in Jamaica by positive law slavery was recognised and was legal.
Then we come to the great Act of 1833. I do not think we have hardly sufficiently that the whole credit of recognised obtaining that Act was due to the Fowell Buxton of that day. It was just about the time when Wilberforce, unfor- tunately, was either dead or dying. What did the Act of 1833 do as regards slavery? It enacted that:
"from and after the said first day of August, 1834, slavery shall be and is hereby utterly and for ever abolished and declared unlawful throughout the British Colonies, Plantations and Possessions abroad." That was the first great Act that dealt in a wide way with the question of slavery, and, as I think has already been pointed out, £20,000,000 was provided in order to give compensation for those slaves who were freed. Slaves up to that date had been regarded as property.
I think I have now made the general Let me go to the ques- position clear. tions which were asked by the three speakers who preceded me. I need not emphasise what the noble Earl, Lord Buxton, has said that, although in some cases no doubt slavery may be carried on without cruelty, yet the institution of slavery is the cause of some of the most brutal cruelty in the world now as in the old days. The first question he asked me was about China. We must differentiate when we speak of that country. China of course, is a vast country and there are a very large number of slaves in it; there is no doubt about that. If slavery is to be suppressed in China it must be done by international action. But the ques- tion of Hong-kong is an entirely different one. Hong-kong is an English Possession, and a very large number of Chinese inhabit Hong-kong; about 1,000,000 is the estimate. I have been asked as to the position of what is called the mui-tsai. I should like to emphasise what has been said, that the present Colonial Secretary has, in fact and in truth, in my opinion, carried out the desire of the Government to put an end to what for a long time has become a sort of plague spot.
I should like to state what has been done in regard to this matter. It is believed that practically all the mui-tsai in the Colony were registered up to the end of the six months period. That is the compulsory registration. No more