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HOUSE OF COMMONS
a
[Mr. Dalton.] present form, that will be a very good prelude to successful negotiations on this other separate matter. The negotiations are not advanced to a stage at which I 1 can give details. Sir Miles Lampson is actively collecting material for formal and precise presentation of our claims. He will continue on that line, and the hon. Member may take it, as the Foreign Secretary has said on number of occasions, that we shall give it full support and hope the result may be satisfactory. Beyond that the hon. Member will not expect me to go.
a
Mr. SAMUEL: In view of what the Under-Secretary has said, I beg leave to withdraw the Amendment.
Amendment, by leave withdrawn.
Purchas-
CLAUSE 2.-(Constitution, functions, &e.,
of Chinese Government ing Commission.)
in King-
Mr. MANDER: I beg to move, page 2, line 14, after the word
dom," to insert the words
"provided the British is not substantially higher than the world price."
I would like to congratulate the hon. Gentleman on the many bouquets thrown at him to-night from across the floor of the House, and, if he has finished blush- ing, I hope he will show himself as will- ing to accept Amendments from these benches as those from above the gangway. This particular Amendment was moved by
me in Committee, and I was thoroughly dissatisfied with the answer then given. I cannot see why it should not be accepted, because it carries out what was in the mind of the Government as to the way the scheme would work. The object of the whole system is to create good will for this country in China. I think this is a bad Bill and the wrong way to do it altogether, and that the money would be far better spent on education. I quite recognise that there has been an agreement between China and this country on which we cannot go back, but, looked at from the point of view of the primary object of the Bill, which is to create good will for this country in China, I think that, unless this Amendment is put in, there is a considerable danger in years to come of creating prejudice. I do not think that
the insertion of these words would pre- vent purchases in this country of that railway material which we are all
(Application) Bill.
1624
extremely anxious to see purchased at the earliest possible moment, but, if it were found that British material were, in certain circumstances, say, 50 per cent. higher than foreign material, the Chinese Government would buy other material with other money and spend the whole of this money on railway material purchased in this country.
This Amendment is necessary in order to prevent the possibility of a ring being formed by manufacturers here in order to hold up the price, knowing that there The was no real foreign competition. British price is for certain types of rail- way material substantially higher than can be the foreign price. Nothing worse than that the competitors of our country should go round whispering in the ears of Chinese Ministers that this was all humbug and that the Chinese Government was being forced to pay more than they would be forced to pay in the open market. It is to safeguard a possibility of that kind that I suggest If that these words should be put in. there were only a small difference in price the orders would go to this country, but, if our prices were much higher, then the money covered by this Bill would be spent in purchasing other railway material. Remembering the Under-Secretary's willingness to accept the Amendments from hon. Members on the Unionist benches, his new-found allies, I ask him not to forget his old friends and to see whether he cannot accept this Amendment which is in accord with the declared views and wishes of the Government, and will not prejudice the spending of this money on British materials in this country, but will avoid the real danger of doing an immense amount of harm to the good will of this country in China.
Dr. BURGIN: I beg to second the Amendment.
Mr. DALTON: It would, of course, be a great pleasure to accept Amendments from all parts of the House to-night, and the hon. Member for Wolverhampton (Mr. Mander) has indeed been an ally of mine in certain aspects of foreign policy when others have been on the other side of the trench. It would have been a special pleasure, therefore, to have accepted this Amendment from him, but he moved the same Amendment in Committee upstairs, and I am afraid that, just as he has made
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19 FEBRUARY 1931
the same speech in substance in moving it now,
I shall have to make the same speech as I made upstairs in resisting it. The effect of the Amendment, as moved. would either be nil, in which case it is not worth moving, or else it would result in the diversion of orders from this coun- try to foreign firms. It has not been asked for by the Chinese. The Bill represents an agreement. I would suggest that there is really no ground for the hon. Member's apprehension, because, after all, the Chinese Government Purchasing Commis- sion in London will contain not only Chinese representatives but certain very competent British representatives, who will know all the facts about prices, and whose duty it will be, as trustees of this money. to see that the Chinese are not charged unreasonable prices. As to the possi- bility of rings in this country, I should be prepared to agree that that possibility exists, but there are other bases of com- parison that will be available to the Com- mission. We have, for example, an ex- port trade in steel rails and so on to other markets than the Chinese, and we are open to foreign competition, but we do sometimes get these orders, and there- fore you have a basis from which prices will be known to the Chinese Govern- If it is ment Purchasing Commission, known that British firms are asking a higher price from China than from, say, Argentina, the Commission will be en- titled to reduce the price to the level of that charge. I would also remind the hon. Member of the words in Clause 2 Sub-section (1, ii), whereby the Chinese Government Purchasing Commission in London may
"so far as those moneys are not immediately required for such purposes."
that is to say, the purposes for which this money is to be used as set out in the Bill. They may establish
a reserve fund for the purpose of enabling the Commission to discharge similar obliga- tions and defray similar expenses in future years."
an
I hope it will not be necessary for large sums to be placed in reserve for appreciable time. I hope the whole of this £3,000,000 will be spent at a com- in- paratively early date in British dustries. It will obviously be to the benefit of employers that they should keep their prices down, as otherwise the money might be put to this reserve. Should British employers short-sightedly
reserve
4-7
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em-
(Application) Bill. endeavour to profiteer as a result of this Clause, then the resource is available to the Purchasing Commission to put these
until moneys to
British ployers learn wisdom. There is really, therefore, no purpose in this Amend- ment, and I trust the hon. Member will not feel it necessary to press it to a Division.
Mr. MANDER: I understand clearly from the Under-Secretary's speech that it is not the wish nor the intention of the Government that any of this money should be used on British material if the price is substantially in excess of the world price. Am I right?
Mr. BRACKEN: It grieves me to dis- agree with the hon. Member for Luton (Dr. Burgin), who is my representative in this House, but I think it very im- portant that we should congratulate the Under-Secretary on his excellent speech. I am sure that, although he may have to suffer from the Chancellor of the Ex- Members chequer for making it, many will think that the Labour Party has at last awakened to the essential merits of using every opportunity to provide work for British people-work at good wages and work that will please the Chinese even if it does not please the But it is an extraordin- Portuguese. any thing that the hon. Member for Wolverhampton (Mr. Mander) and the hon. Member for Luton, representing in- dustrial constituencies, should take up an attitude against both Chinese and British views in this matter. They have intervened in order to send orders for goods manufactured in Great Britain abroad. It is a remarkable thing indeed that Members in whose constituencies un- employment is rife should come down and betray the interests of their con- stituents. There is the result of an elec- tion published to-night which gives no satisfaction to the Liberal party, and I hope that not only my own constituency will repulse the hon. Member for Luton but that Wolverhampton will also show that it objects strongly to the betrayal of the interests of its workmen.
Amendment negatived.
FIRST SCHEDULE.—(Payments to be made out of the China Indemnity Fund.) Mr. DALTON: beg to move, in page 3, line 7, after the word "London," to insert the words: