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has been said by the proposer of this motion and other speakers, and although I sympa thise with their sentiments, yet I fully agree with what has fallen from the Attorney- General. I think that the great Imperial ques tion cannot be overlooked. The aim and object of every war is a lasting peace, and this motion is quite contrary to that idea of a lasting peace, and therefore I am freely following my own convictions in voting against it.
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redoubtable member. Chamber of Commerce.
He represents the
Hon. Mr. HOLYCAR-Do I understand you to say, Sir, that I am not a commercial man!
HIS EXCELLENCY-I certainly did not say that. I said you carried undoubted weight as representing the Chamber of Commerce,
HIS EXCELLENCY then proceeded-Pursuing the argument as to economics for one moment. I have been connected with the Government for 36 years, and I have been connected with Council for 30 years. If, lik. Father Aeneas, I could find Charon to ferry me across the river Styx, and visit the shadies of the dead, and be able to have speech with some of the really big men of the past whom Hongkong has produced-William Keswick and Thomas Jackson-and communicate thi resolution to them, excluding as it does the entry into this port of German ships, well, in the words of a popular song which wa sung recently by a very fascinating young lady, supported by a very proper figure of young man, "they would never believe me." Or, if I could take the wings of an eagle and soar over to England and whisper in the ear of Thomas Henderson Whitehead, Edward Osborne, Murray Stewart, C. H. Ross, or C W. Dickson, some of those hard-headed aud sound men of former days, and tell them that it was proposed lightly to exclude Ger man tonnage from this harbour, well, again I am sure, they "would never believe me." Gentlemen, if the policy of the Chamber d Commerce for the last 36 years I will not go further back-has been right, then the Chamber of Commerce to-day is wrong Their watchword during those years has been "shipping is the life-blood of the Colony." I believe in that. And I believe further in another watchword which the preached-that the prosperity of this Colony depends upon the Colony remaining, as fa
H EXCELLENCY — Gentlemen, as the Attorney-General has pointed out, the sup- porters of this resolution support it on two grounds. One of them may be summed up The other is in the one word "retaliation." on economic grounds. Now in my humble opinion it is far too early to talk about retaliation. Of one thing I myself am firmly convinced, and that is, that the English people, who are distinguished above all things for their love of justice, will never sheathe the sword, nor will their Allies sheathe the sword, until the crimes which have been committed by the German army in this war are thoroughly expisted. I feel confident that the persons who ordered these orimes will be brought to punishment. am quite sure that the blood of the massacred passengers of the Lusitania, and, worse than that, the blood of Miss Cavell, and-even worse than that, the most foul case of all- the blood of the murdered Captain Fryatt, will not call for justice in vain. We may well leave that to those who will have the terms of peace under their consideration. On the other question, the question of econ- omics, I confess I expected to hear a graver inlictment against the German merchants and their methods than the indictment that has been put forward. It is mainly that they followed a credit system. Well, the Attorney-General has answered that as far as it is necessary to answer it. I would only remark, in answer to the contention of the hoa, member who represents the Justices of the Peace that the official side of this Council ought to accept the opinion of the Chamber of Commerce on that subject, that the sup- port given to that part of the argument by the representative of Messrs Jardine, He Matheson & Co. was exceedingly weak. said that it did not carry much weight, and he based his argument principally upon the vindication of humanity and justice. And what of our large Chinese commercial cons munity? They happen to own four-fifths of the wealth of this Colony, and to pay 97 per cent. of the rates and taxes. Why, we have them both opposed to the resolution. There- fore, the argument finds support in one com-
bers, I admit he is a mercial member only.
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Hon. Mr. HOLYOAK-In dealing briefly with the debate which has just taken place, I would like in the first place to resent in the strongest possible manner the studied insult to the Committee of the Chamber of Commerce. We now know exactly where we
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crisis the Chinese community, who have | Chamber of Commerce on the matter. rendered splendid service to this Government have consulted many of my friends outside by offering personal services, and by giving and have expressed their opinions. us much money, have kept their heads. They have not lost them. He says, and he says troly, that the resolution should not be passed until you find out what the countries which surround us are going to do. These happen to he Russia, Japan, China herself, Indo-China, the Philippines, and I may even include Australia. It would be a nice thing —would it not?—to find Hongkong isolated among the surrounding and competing parts of these countries. It would advantage her nothing, absolutely nothing. It has been said that the Dominions have expressed pinions in unison with this resolution. I do not quite know what is meant thereby, because I read my papers and Parliamentary papers very carefully, and I have not yet seen any suggestion from anywhere that Germans should actually be excluded from the King's Dominions after the war. The hon. member who represents the Justices of the Peace made a strong point that the Government should not reject this resolution on the ground that it was an Imperial con- cern and did not concern us. He also ex- pressed the strong opionion that we ought to accept the resolution because it was endorsed by the Hongkong General Chamber of Commerce.
There are two Chambers of Commerce in the Colony. I have dealt with the latter part of the question already. With regard to the first part I would say that we have no latention of escaping the responsibility of not accepting the resolution because it deals with an hoperial matter. We are convinced all the officials at this table-that the pro- posal contained in the resolution is not in the interests of the Colony. The Chinese pommunity are pot in favour of the resolu- tion, if we are to believe their representatives, and I have no doubt we can believe them, Therefore, our decision is that we cannot accept the resolution on its merits. In con- clusion, I wish to say that I think the whole question has been summed up in a very terse as possible, a free port. I remember when very statesmanlike manner by my gallant and hon. friend who sits on my right (the there was an invasion of foreign banks int
General Officer Commanding), this Colony- the Russian bank, a Japane bank and a German bank, and a Dutch bask and someone said to Sir Thomas Jackson:- "There are are a lot of these banks comix] here, won't it interfere with your business His answer was:-" Business makes bark- and the more banks in Hongkong the mur
And l the Hongkong bank will make. words have been justified by the en Gentlemen, in this debate there have to some very wise words spoken by the Hun Mr. Lau Chu Pak, one of the Chinese mem He has once more shown that in this
Hon. Mr. HoLYOAK-Sir, before replying to the arguments I would like to ask the Hon. Mr. Lau Chu Pak if he has consulted the Chinese Chamber of Commerce in this matter.
Hon. Mr. LAU CHU PAX-There has not been opportunity of consulting the Chinese
There is no longer any really big man in Hongkong. That covers a variety of firms whose interests cover millions and millions of dollars. And I am astounded that the Governor of the Colony should give utterance to such words. That being so, and that being the attitude which is being adopted towards the Chamber of Commerce I will proceed to deal with the more or less weak arguments of the Government side. With reference to the past, the giants of commerce, whose shades have passed beyond the grave. They never had to deal with such problems as face us to-day in the world-wide war, a war which has been waged under conditions the like of which they never saw or dreamed could be possible. And I think, in the light of these stulied, and I say so advisexily, these studied atrocities which have been perpetrated by the Germans in this war, and of which we have not yet reached the end, we are entitled to say that these are conditions which are new to the world and which must be faced anew. And I cannot believe that any man gathered around this table can face calmly the possibility of sit- ting, within two years from now, next to a German in any public building or in connec tion with any joint interests in this Colony, It has been said that what is advocated is a policy of retaliation. I do not call it retalia- tion, I call it just retribution, and there is a wide and vast difference between the two words. It has been said that there will be no advantage if this resolution is carried out and that no lasting peace will be assured. I cannot conceive a condition of peace within this Colony if any Germans are admitted within its domains within the next two years. Personally I should be the first to break the peace, Reference has been made to the punishment of the leaders who organ- ised this war, and who have prepared for it for years, but no attempt has been made to rebut the argument made that this war is being waged by the German people, and the characteristics which have been displayed in the perpetration of the atrocities of this war are to be found in the national character of the people, man, woman and child, as I said before, and will not be eradicated for a teran of years. Therefore we say that they are unclean and that we will not be associated
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