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details, which would only cause repetition. But I am in accord, fully in accord, with the motion's contention; the desirability of excluding Germans for a period of years from this Colony. It has been said," and rightly said, that we are not warring against the German people, and at the beginning of the war there was an element of truth in that, Sir. But I think it can be said that from the beginning the entire German nation has been warring against us and our Allies. And if they had been successful in their world-wide { design! I am sure that if they had accomp. lished their ends-therest of the world woukl have had very little consideration and sympa thy from our enemies Now it is reported that some sections of the people in Germany are blaming their rulers for the position they have got themselves into. But, after all, Sir, I think that the people are responsible for the Governors, and I think, that being so, we must hold the people of Germany responsible for all their atrocities and the violation of all laws, human and divine, which have been carried out. We cannot really, I think, exclude them from responsibility. As regards the commercial side, we have heard it argued that the Germans should be excluded from the Colony, and there is something to be said for that, though I think it will not carry very much weight. We must look, I think, to the sentimental side of the position which, to a large extent, governs such things throughout the world. And we must act, I think, on principles of humanity, righteousness and justice. Another point I ought to make, and that is in connection with the men who have gone home to fight, many of them, alas! who have made the last sacrifice. We hope that a large number of them will return, and what do we think these men would think, these mea when they come back, if they find the Ger mans established here in the same old way? The thought to me would be intolerable, as I think it would be to them.
Hon. Mr. H. E. POLLOCK-Sir, I submit that this resolution ought to be accepted by the Government, supported, as it is, by the expert opinion of the business-men composing the Committee of the Hongkong Chamber of Commerce. On such a matter as this the opinion of such a body is entitled to the greatest possible weight. It is sought by this motion to pass on that opinion to the Secre tary of State for the Colonies. Surely that is a very proper course for this Council to adopt. I would even go so far as to say that it is the positive duty of this Conncil to pass on this opinion of business-men to the Secretary of State, seeing that that official is the represen- tative of the Crown Colonies upon the Im- perial Committee which is sitting to consider
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post-war trade problems. Surely this Colony through its Council, must have the right to instruct its own representative. Surely, wa are not going to be toki that either the Con- stitution of this Colony or instructions from the Secretary of State forbid the passing of such a resolution as this. Then what other argument can be advanced for not acceding to this motion? Are we to be told that this motion cannot be accepted on the plea that it will embarrass the Home Government. Such a plea would, I submit, be absolutely unsound, for the reason that this resolution involves no conflict whatever between this Council and the Home Authorities. We are simply asking for leave to lay the views of this Colony, this important outpost of Empire in the Far East, before the Home Authorities Are we to be refused such leave? Sir, I have considered this resolution, and the possible grounds of Government objection to it, from every point of view, and I have been finally forced to one conclusion, namely, that if this Government refuses to vote for this motion, it can do so logically and constitutionally on one single ground only, namely, on the ground that it does not agree with this resolution. Now, as I have already urged, the opinion of the Committee of the Chamber of Commerce ought to be conclusive with the Government upon the mercantile aspect of this question. Therefore, as a mere matter of cold business, there can be no doubt that this motion ought to be accepted by the Government. But, Sir, this resolution has something more be hind it than mere dollars and cents. We are fighting the cause of civilization against barbarism. At a recent meeting at the Aldwych Club, Sir Edward Carson, the First Lord of the Admiralty, said :-"We have to deal with an enemy who has set at naught all the humanities which, as the result of centuries, have been embodied in our Inter- national Law." That is the opinion of very eminent lawyer, and, when we consider the nature of some of those breaches of law, such as the indiscriminate Bubmarining of passenger and hospital ships, and the whole- sale sowing of the seas with Boating mines, and when we also consider the brutal treat ment meted out to our prisoners-of-war, by German women as well as by German men, we must surely refuse a welcome back to our shores to people of German nationality - people who are not only brutal to the living but even desecrate the remains of the dead. Sir, my honourable friend has pointed out that the Dominions are at one with us in their sentiments upon this subject, and I would add that Great Britain is equally at one with us, for, at a recent meeting in London, Sir Algernon Firth, the President of the Association of Chambers of Commerc of the United Kingdom, said: "Of this
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am certain, that the people of this country The ATTORNEY-GENERAL-I do not propose, will nover again stand German intrigue and Sir, to address myself to the motion general- German spying and German monopoly and ly, but I would like to say a few words on dishonest trading, such as have been tolerat two paints. The hon. members who pro- ed for the last 20 or 30 years in this country. posed the resolution supported it on two Let the Government back us up, and we will grounds. The first ground was
how that British producers are the best in sentiment. In sentiment I think we are all the world." Sir, that is what we are asking at one with him, and our inclinations point for now. We are asking the Government to in the same direction as his. The only matter **back us up."
in which we might differ perhaps is as to how and when and where this sentiment should be expressed. Sentiment is a very poor guide amongst the cold hard facts of economics, Lord Cromer, who was perhaps one of the ablest statesmen and administrators of the British Empire in recent years, had occasion to consuler this question of trade after the war just before his death, and his judgment, given just before his death (it was perhaps the last judgment he gave before his death), was that An economic war with Germany after this war based on revenge would be a pernicious and fallacious policy. Now, Sir, an opinion like that from such an able statemen as Lord Cromer ought to make us pause before embarking on a policy which is based merely on sentiment. But what I want chiefly to refer to is the other ground put forward by the hon. member, and that is, the economic argument, that Germans should be excluded from the Colony for ten years after the war, because they in- troduced here unsound commercial methods. One must accept, of course, the opinion of the Chamber of Commerce that a cash basis for the trade of this Colony is the most advantageous for the British merchants here. No doubt they are the best judges of that themselves. But one cannot help remember- ing that credit is an incident of commerce all over the world, and that trade lives by credit, and I do not see how when, after the war, the Germans return to neighbouring ports, as I suppose they will, we are to pre- vent able and energetic merchants just out- side our border froin again introducing into this Colony by means of agents or inter- mediaries a credit system such as exists in hundreds of other trading centres throughout the world. Of course, without combination between all the importers such a system as the cash system could not be maintained. In other words, Sir, I think that the policy proposed will not be efficacious in effecting the end for which it is proposed. That is the answer to the economic argument. As I said before, if we are asked to embark on this policy merely because we want to act in accordance with the natural and just sentiments, then I say that we are asked to enter an unknown country with a blind leader as guide.
Hon. Mr. LAU CHU PAR Sir, while sympathising with the object of the resolu- tion, I am afraid I cannot support it in toto for reasons I am going to give At the out- set I would like to say that if I were to consult my own inclinations and wishes would ask for the Germans to be excluded not only for ten years but for ever and a day, for I have large interests in companies recently awl expressly formed to secure a big share of the business forinerly in the hands of the Germans. But this resolution, Sir, is based on higher motives and on public grounds, and it is precisely on the same grounds that I have reluctance in taking up tho position I am taking. After listening to what my lon, colleagues opposite have said I am still not certain that if the suggested measure were enforced it would be in the best interests of the Colony. It may be 80 and it may not be, for no-one can tell for certain what will happen in the next ten years or so. At any rate, we have to bear in mind the surrounding countries. Unless these countries fall into line with us the advantage aimed at by the resolution would be nullified. However successful we might be in keeping the Germans out of this Colony it would be nothing without the co-operation of these surrounding countries to prevent the Germans from setting up competition close to our doors under no control whatever. Again, Sir, it should be borne in mind that if the measure were to be adopted in Hong. kong it would have to be applied to every part of the Empire. In my opinion it is an Imperial question and one that might well be left in the hands of the Imperial Govern- ment, which, strengthed by representatives from the Dominions and from Indis, can safely be trusted to arrive at a conclusion in the highest interests of the Empire. It is, therefore, Sir, with due deference and a proper sense of responsibility that I would suggest that the resolution be allowed to stand over. In conclusion, Sir, I might say that I sin in sympathy with that part of the resolution which suggests the placing of Germans under strict licence.
Hon. Mr. WEI YUR-I beg to support all that has been said.by my colleague, I shall vote against the resolution.
H. E. The GENERAL OFFICER COMMANDING -I have listended very attentively to what
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