Spoken tozen, & find
that
had written as above on
The Unim (hurch of England Church
a
Zen
the idea that
was another (hurch
and not (asitis)
Church of Presbyterians & Independents.
cantined. On further consen
Jou think that they
Junderstand
claim for some
have
recognition.
I have therefore
drafted for
consen accordingly.
Aito burials I have also drafted
verbal instructions in accor dance with my first minute.
on
you
5.49.19/2
Yrs. M.19.2
Righ
From "Hanging Daily Press " 24 Nov.
THE ECCLESIASTICAL VOTE. The CHAIRMAN-With regard to the Ap- propriation Bill, 1892, the Finance Committes hare dealt with the whole except two items which stood over, the ecclesiastical vote and the vote in connection with the gaol. As regards the ecclesiastical vote I have talked carefully over with and taken His Excellency's instructions in the matter. It was a matter that required some aonsideration and I now propose to amend the grant by substituting for the words "grant for Protestant chaplain for gaul and Hospital" the words "grant for Protestant chaplains, &o.," that is, putting in the plural. Last time wh considered the vote it was objected to that it was proposed to give the Anglican chaplain a cer- ain sum and not to give anything to the minister of the Union Charch as the repre- sentative of a religious community and one who had just claim for remuneration. I nse the words "just claim for remuneration" be cause they are the words of the Secretary of State. I should like to say a few words in ox- planation of this amendment. It seems to me that in this osse second thoughts are better than first. We give $720 to the Roman Catholic Chaplain on the basis that there are 200 Roman Catholics pass through the Gaol and Hospital every year. A small com- mittee was then appointed to consider what sum should be given to the Church of England Chaplain. We arrived at the sam on the sampa principle. For 200 Catholics the chaplain got $720 and wo thought that at least the Protestant Chaplains should get three times as much. At that time it was intended that the whole sum should go to the Anglican chaplain. No other religious body had put in any other claim, and it was rather assumed that the independent religious bodies, those who do not care to have any connection with the Govern- ment, preferred to be perfectly independent and that when they visited the Gaol or Hospital to hold services such as I have mentioned they looked upon them rather as works of charity and did not wish to receive anything for them. A short time ago, however, I received a letter from the Committee of the Union Church asking that they might receive a portion of the grant and their request seems to mis a very reasonable one. I propose now to put in a rather larger sum than was put down for one chaplain, the distribution of which can be arranged after- warda. It is quite clear to my mind that the Union Church should come in for somas share of this grant, and I proposs' to pat down $3,000 instead of $2.100. We have taken as a basis the numbers for the whole of the year 1890 and the first half year of 1891. It appears during that time the total number of persons admitted to the Hospital, professing the Christian religion, other than Roman Catholics, was 728. We got these returns from the Tos- pital, where hey are very carefully made up. The number of prisoners admitted to the gaol profess- ing the Christian religion and not being Roman Catholic was 104. These figures being added to- gether give a total of 832. Now the Secretary of State allowed a grant for the Roman Catholic Chaplain of $720 when the number of Roman Catholics for the year at the Gaol and Hospital I was 200. The sum therefore becomes a vory simple one. If the Roman Catholic Chaplain gets $720 for 200 persons how much should the Protestant chaplains got? The answer is, an 200 is to $720,8 is 882 to $2,995.20, and we have therefore put down a sam of $3,000. The exact provision as to what share is to go to each chaplain must be determined afterwards.
Hon. T. H. WHITEHEAD-By whom?
The CHAIRMAN-I can hardly say at this moment. We are providing for next year. There is not the least doubt that it will be divid- ed fairly. It is sufficient for the Committee to confirm the alteration now and some arrangement cau be come to afterwards with respect to the
ivision of the vote.
Hon. Ho Kat-The Union Church did not make a claim because they did not know that any money was to be granted. The Anglican Church knew of it and put in a claim.
The CHAIRMAN-It has been part of the Colonial Chaplain's duties to hold these services, and now that he has been done away with, the Secretary of State sail that due provision would have to be made for the Gaol and Hospital. Of course if the Union Church comes in the Chaplain will have to do his share of the work and hold services regularly.
manner.
1891 267
Hon. T. H. WHITEHEAD- It seems to me it is simply continuing the grant under a different heading and leaving it in a not very satisfactory At all events I hope this money will not be apportioned in any bole-and-corner way as other matters have been done. As evidence of what I say it appears that a Committes was ap- pointed by the Government to enquire into the Gaol. There was a Public Works Committee but it was never consulted on the poist.
The CHAIRMAN-The Gaol is the next item. When we come to that we shall perhaps be able to satisfy the hou, member about the appoint- ment of that Committee.
Hop. T. H. WRITEHEAD-The same thing may occur here. I hope this matter will not be dealt with in any hole-and-corner way.
The CHAIRMAN-I do not think the hon. member would desire to make those remarks on further cousideration. My sole desir in this matter has been to do everything that is right and fair. There has been nothing hole-and- corner with regard to this vote. I think when you come to look into it you will find that every- thing has been the other way. You could not expect the Government to go about asking if there was any other body who wanted a share of the grant. They have done the work for no- thing hitherto.
Hon. Ho Kar-Will you give us the assur- anoe that the money will be apportioned by a re- presentative Committee ?
The CHAIRMAN-It is for the Governor to irrange all that.
I cannot promise anything.
The REGISTRAR-GENERAL—I thiak hon. mem- bers may take it for granted that the Governor will see that the money, whether apportioned by a Committee or otherwise, is fairly divided.
Hon. T. H. WHITEHEAD-1 see there is a grant for burials, baptisus, &c., of $400. To whom is that to go!
The CHAIRMAN-That will have to be ap- portioned in the same way Some religious bodies bury their own dead without any provision being made. On the other hand some poor fellow may be washed ashore or die bere without friends and the chaplain has to bary him. It entails considerable hardship and ties the chaplain down very much. He is afraid to go away as some such thing may occur, and he has to be on the spot to direct the burial.
Hon. C. P. CHATER thought that some pro- vision should be made for such cases as those mentioned,
Hon. T. H. WHITEHEAD-ON what do you base this $400 for burials ?
The CHAIRMAN-It is very difficult to arrive at any sum that can logically be put down. No que can tell how many people may require bury- ing next year. I have made enquiries, from Mr. Taverner amongst others before he left, and it is considered that this is as fair a sum as could be arrived at.
The vote was then agreed to.
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