Hon. P. RYRIE-We are in Committee. We can speak as often as we like. You must not forget, your Excellency, that there are many thousands of Chinese who are of just as keen intellect as we are. They know what is right and what is wrong. Of course you have a population of working men and others, but we have an intelligent population of Chinese which is unequalled in any town in the East.
A division was then taken on Hon. C. P. Chater's amendment, which resulted as follows:
AYES.
Hon. C. P. Chater
Hon. J. Bell-Irving
Hon. A. P. MacEwen
Hon. Wong Shing
Hon. P. Ryrie
NOES.
The Harbour Master
The Surveyor-General
The Colonial Treasurer
The Acting Attorney-General
The Acting Colonial Secretary
The Acting Chief Justice
The amendment was therefore lost by a majority of one.
The amendment proposed by the Acting Attorney-General was then put and carried nem. con. and the clause, as amended, was adopted.
In clause 5, which read as follows: "The Governor shall appoint the President, Vice President, and Secretary of the Board, and the names of all members appointed to the Board shall be forthwith notified in the Government Gazette, and any number of the Government Gazette containing a notice of any such appointments shall be deemed sufficient evidence thereof before any Magistrate or Court of Law."
Hon. J. BELL-IRVING proposed the following Amendment: "Leave out the words 'The Governor shall appoint the President, Vice-President and Secretary of the Board, and the names of all members appointed to the Board,' for the purpose of inserting the words 'The Board shall elect annually from their number the President and Vice-President, and shall appoint their own Secretary, and the names of all members elected to the Board.'"
Hon. P. RYRIE-I have much pleasure in seconding this amendment for the reason that I do not think that actually being the president of a board of this kind need imply undue influence, or being Vice-president or Secretary either. It will satisfy the public, and if my hon. friend on the right (the Surveyor-General) is on the Board, he can have as much influence on it as if he were president of it. That is my experience. I am president of several boards in the colony, and I never attempt to influence anything. (Laughter.) I leave it to the members. I think this is an amendment which the Government might very well sanction. I do not see what harm it could do. We must not forget when we are sitting here that we are legislating for an English colony. This is not Russia. This is a free country where we do everything pro bono publico and not for any particular person. None of us have interest in the public monies- at least, I hope we have not. We have to do the business of the public, and if the public wish it they have a right to choose their own representatives.
The ACTING CHIEF JUSTICE-I understand it was clearly arranged that the Sanitary Board should hold its meetings in public. I think your Excellency said so at the last meeting. If so, the influence of any one member on the board will not be so great as it might be if it were a secret tribunal dealing with public affairs. They are going to deal with them in the eyes of the public. Exceptions might be taken on the same grounds to the Governor appointing a Magistrate, or Judge, or any other officer who had to sit in public as to the president. The public, through the Press, will know of the meetings and the newspapers will report the proceedings as long as they are interesting, but after a time I do not think that readers will find the reports very entertaining reading. But the real safeguard is the fact that the proceedings shall be public. I think I should be inclined, if this were still a secret board, to join with the hon. member in saying they ought to elect their own president, because the Bill says the Chairman has a casting vote. The hon. member says he does not try to influence any of the members of the boards of which he is Chairman, but I don't think, if he were not a very influential member, he would be Chairman of so many of them. I really think the public, for whom we are legislating, have got every safeguard by the fact that this is to be an open tribunal and that the representatives of the public-the Press-will be present and bring to light anything they think iniquitous or improper.
The ACTING ATTORNEY-GENERAL-It must be borne in mind that the new Board will consist of only four official and six unofficial members. It should also be borne in mind the President is to be the executive or working member of the Board, and with the large amount of business he will have to do I think you will find it very difficult indeed to find any one but a Government official who would accept the office. As the non-official element is large on this Board, I think it only right the Government should keep in its own hands the appointment of the officers.
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Hon. A. P. MACEWEN-I would point out to the hon. member when he says the unofficial element predominates that the Governor has the power of appointing four of the unofficial members. Now, there is nothing to prevent the Governor appointing, say, a military man, and so it is not certain that the unofficial element will predominate.
His EXCELLENCY-With regard to the military man, the military generally have their own board of health, and I do not think it is usual. I won't say it is against the law, to appoint any one belonging to the garrison to such a board as this.
Hon. A. P. MACEWEN-I merely point out the possibility.
A division was then taken on the amendment:-
AYES.
Hon. C. P. Chater
Hon. J. Bell-Irving
Hon. A. P. MacEwen
Hon. Wong Shing
Hon. P. Ryrie
NOES.
The Harbour-Master
The Surveyor-General
The Colonial Treasurer
The Acting Attorney-General
The Acting Colonial Secretary
The Acting Chief Justice
The amendment was therefore lost by a majority of one and the clause adopted as it stood.
In clause 8, which reads as follows: "If any member of the Board be at any time prevented by absence or other cause from acting for more than six months, the Governor may appoint or if the member has been elected the electors may nominate some other person to replace such member, until he shall be able to resume his functions."
Hon. J. BELL-IRVING proposed the following amendment--"After the words 'six months' to leave out the words 'The Governor may appoint,' for the purpose of inserting the words 'the Board may elect.'"
A division was taken on the amendment, which resulted as follows:-
AYES.
Hon. C. P. Chater
Hon. J. Bell-Irving
Hon. A. P. MacEwen
Hon. Wong Shing
Hon. P. Ryrie
NOES.
The Harbour-Master
The Surveyor-General
The Colonial Treasurer
The Acting Attorney-General
The Acting Colonial Secretary
The Acting Chief-Justice
The amendment was therefore lost by majority of one, and the clause adopted as it stood.
On clause 11, which limits the expenditure of the Board without the sanction of the Governor to $50.
Hon. P. RYRIE said--I have already objected to this, but seeing that all the other clauses have been carried I do not think it is any use proposing an amendment. As I said before, the sum of $50 left to the Board to spend is a very... I do not know what to call it--but it certainly is small, and I think this Council might very well, if they are going to have a Board of Health, give that Board power to spend a little money. I believe it is against the regulations of the Secretary of State, but the Secretary of State might be asked to give them some little power, for what can a board do with fifty dollars? Probably it will tie their hands at times. If they send up a requisition probably your Excellency will always sign it, but I think if the Board has any existence at all, it should not be limited in its expenditure to such a small sum as fifty dollars.
The ACTING CHIEF JUSTICE-I don't think this clause ought to be in the Bill at all. It is utterly wrong in principle, because the Governor is entirely responsible, and if you put down fifty dollars, I don't see why you should not put down a thousand. If there is any money required to be suddenly and necessarily expended the president, who is likely to be a responsible person appointed by the Governor, ought to take the responsibility of spending that money, knowing he will be able to get the Governor's authority for it afterwards.
The SURVEYOR-GENERAL-May I interrupt the hon. member? That was the sole object intended.
The ACTING CHIEF JUSTICE-There might be a series of fifty dollars. If the necessity exists for spending five hundred dollars the Governor will sanction it and the Legislature will approve his act in a supplementary Bill if necessary.
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