The Daily Press.
HONGKONG, AUGUST 19TH, 1887.
THE PUBLIC HEALTH BILL. His EXCELLENCY-The Council will now resume consideration, in Committee, of the Public Health Bill.
On the motion of the ACTING ATTORNEY-GENERAL, sub-section 4 of clause 3, being the definition of a common lodging house, was read as follows:-"a. Any house or part thereof where persons are housed-not being members of the same family at an amount not exceeding five cents a day or one dollar a month for each person. b. Any permanent structure in which employers of labour lodge their employés other than domestic servants, as part of the remuneration given for their services."
The ACTING ATTORNEY-GENERAL-With respect to this sub-section, Sir, I beg to state that we have received certain objections, made on the part of the Chinese. They object to paragraph a of this sub-section because they think it would include coolie houses, and they object to coolie houses being classed as common lodging houses. They state that there is a great difference between a coolie-house and a common lodging-house. On consideration of the matter the Government see no reason why any distinction should be made. It is necessary to control and regulate both kinds of houses, and there really can be no hardship in the operation of the clause as they seem to think. It is necessary, from what we have heard of these coolie houses, to make certain regulations respecting them, and in regard to these regulations there will be full opportunity for discussion; and when they see them I think they will find they are not prejudicial to their interests. With respect to clause b we have also received some objections, and in order to meet them I move that the words "or shopmen" be inserted after the words "domestic servants."
Hon. C. P. CHATER-I propose, Sir, that after the word "shopmen" the words "artisans or labourers employed in the erection of any building" be inserted. We don't want in any way to increase the cost of building houses, and if houses are to be built and repaired the artisans and labourers have to be accommodated somewhere near where the work is going on. If these words are put in it would not alter the clause very much, and would reduce the cost of building.
The ACTING ATTORNEY-GENERAL-While the building is going on are they lodged in any permanent structure?
Hon. C. P. CHATER-In matsheds.
The ACTING ATTORNEY-GENERAL-We have put in a "permanent structure."
Hon. C. P. CHATER-But there may be a vast house adjoining at the time and they may have to occupy that house.
The ACTING ATTORNEY-GENERAL-This would not apply, then, if merely a temporary lodging.
His EXCELLENCY-I don't think this would apply. I am perfectly conversant with what the hon. member has been speaking of because we have to deal with a great many of these people in connection with our fortifications. They get accommodated in matsheds. I don't think this clause would apply to what the hon. member has been speaking of.
Hon. C. P. CHATER did not press his amendment.
The sub-section was passed with the amendment proposed by the ACTING ATTORNEY-GENERAL.
The Council then proceeded to consider sub-section 9 of clause 3, defining "householder" as follows-"The actual tenant or occupier of the whole of any building or in cases where there shall be no such person, then the immediate landlord of the whole of such building and in the case of Corporations, Companies, and Associations the Secretary or Manager thereof shall be deemed the Householder and shall be liable under this Ordinance."
The ACTING ATTORNEY-GENERAL said--There have been some objections raised to this sub-section. I am quite willing to add "for the purposes of this Ordinance." The hon. member (Hon. J. Bell-Irving) has given notice of an amendment to strike out the words "the whole" after the words "the actual tenant or occupier of" and the words "of the whole" after the words "immediate landlord." There is no objection to that amendment. The sub-section was passed as amended.
The ACTING ATTORNEY-GENERAL moved that sub-section 11 of clause 3, giving the definition of "new building," be allowed to stand over for a week.
His EXCELLENCY-This matter has not been quite sufficiently considered, has it?
The ACTING ATTORNEY-GENERAL-No, we have not been able to look at all the Acts yet, especially the Metropolitan Building Act.
Consideration of the clause was adjourned accordingly.
The Council then proceeded to discuss clause 4, which read as follows-"The Board shall consist of the Surveyor-General, the Registrar-General, the Captain Superintendent of Police, the Colonial Surgeon, and not more than six additional members, four of whom (two being Chinese) shall be appointed by the Governor, and one elected by the Chamber of Commerce and one by the Justices of the Peace. Non-official members of the Board shall hold office for three years.
The ACTING ATTORNEY-GENERAL.--I believe there is an amendment to this clause.
Hon. C. P. CHATER-Since sending in my amendment, I have thought the matter over and am of opinion that perhaps it would be better to substitute the following:-"The Board shall consist of the Surveyor-General, the Registrar-General, the Captain Superintendent of Police, the Colonial Surgeon, and six non-official members, two of whom (one being Chinese) shall be elected by the Crown lessees or their agents in Hongkong, two by the Justices of the Peace, and two (of whom one shall be Chinese) by such taxpayers as are included in the Special and Common Jury Lists of this colony or such others as are exempted from serving on juries by reason of their professional avocations."
Hon. A. P. MacEWEN-I may say in seconding the amendment that I think on consideration that the arrangement now proposed would be more satisfactory than giving so much power to Crown lessees. I am given to understand the Crown lessees number about two thousand and that at least seventy-five per cent. of them are Chinese. Therefore I think to allow the Crown lessees to elect four members would be placing too much power in the hands of the Chinese. I think the present amendment of the hon. member is more satisfactory.
Hon. P. RYRIE-I am very glad to support the proposition. The proposal seems to be a fair one. My hon. friend on my right has brought to my notice that a number of the Justices of the Peace are Crown lessees, and they could only vote in one capacity; they could not have two votes.
The ACTING ATTORNEY-GENERAL-Sir, the amendment of which I gave notice at the last sitting was to the following effect —That instead of one member being elected by the Chamber of Commerce and one by the Justices of the Peace, two should be elected by such ratepayers as are included in the Special and Common Jury Lists and also by such ratepayers as are exempted from serving on juries on account of their professional avocations, and that four should be appointed by the Governor. The Government are of opinion that this is the utmost concession we can make. The amendment as now proposed by the hon. member on my right would introduce a new system altogether. We think that if a representative or elective system is to be introduced here, it should begin in the Legislative Council. It must also be remembered that the nominees of the Governor when once he has accepted office and is a member of the Board is perfectly independent; and I think that those members of this Council who have been nominated by the Governor, ever since the institution of the Council have never, so far as I can learn, shown any want of independence whatever. They have never looked upon themselves as merely the mouthpiece of the Governor simply because they are appointed by him instead of being elected. Of course I only speak from what I have read and seen, but I think I am perfectly right in saying that even if the non-official members of this Council had been elected by the ratepayers or by the Crown lessees instead of being nominated by the Governor, there could not have been elected more honourable or more independent men than those who have been called to this Council by the voice of the Governor. I do not think we are in a position yet to extend the elective principle, and I think that it is throwing some reflection upon the nominee members that they should be selected to show it.
Page 48