The Daily Press.
Hongkong, AUGUST 6TH, 1887.
THE PUBLIC HEALTH BILL.
The Council went into Committee on the Public Health Bill. On subsection 2 of clause 3 which defines "Board" as "the Sanitary Board,"
Hon. A. P. MACEWEN said—Sir, with reference to this, when the Bill was read a second time I made a few remarks as to the change in the name of the Board. I have before me a copy of the Bill as sent in to the Government by the Sanitary Board in which it is termed the "Municipal Board of Health of Hongkong." This may be looked upon as a minor point, but it was a matter which received much consideration and discussion at the hands of the Sanitary Board some months ago and it was thought, with a hope that in future this board might extend itself till it became a Municipal Council, desirable to give it that name. Well, I think it is even more so now, since the Government itself has proposed to increase the members by two, and I think when we come to another clause later on, dealing with representative members, it will seem to the Government desirable to increase the franchise in this respect. I am sure in this I shall have the support of my hon. friend opposite, the Chairman of the Sanitary Board (the Surveyor-General), who was quite as keen on this point as myself, as he said that former Governors had been only too anxious that some such term should be applied to some body in this Colony.
The SURVEYOR-GENERAL—"Board of Health" not "Municipal Board."
Hon. A. P. MACEWEN—I ask the Governor to adhere to the former resolution, that the board be called the Municipal Board of Health. All our notices and standing orders are printed "Municipal Board of Health" and even the entrance to the office in which we hold our monthly meeting is marked the same.
His EXCELLENCY—Does anyone second the hon. member's amendment?
Hon. P. RYRIE—I second it. I think we should give the Board that name to give it a certain significance.
The ACTING ATTORNEY-GENERAL—The matter has been considered by the Government, who have come to the unanimous conclusion the time is not yet ripe for us to have a Municipal Board, and I do not think in an Ordinance relating to Public Health is the proper place for the establishment of a Municipal Board. I think the Board to carry out the purposes of this Ordinance should be the Sanitary Board, not a Municipal Board.
Hon. A. P. MACEWEN—We have to deal with many things besides those relating purely to health. For instance, the urinal referred to at our last meeting. Surely that is a matter which comes within the province of a Municipal rather than a Sanitary Board.
A division was then taken on the Hon. A. P. MacEwen's amendment which resulted as follows:-
Ayes.
Hon. C. P. Chater Hon. A. P. MacEwen Hon. Wong Shing Hon. P. Ryrie
Noes.
Hon. J. Bell-Irving The Harbour-Master The Surveyor-General The Colonial Treasurer The Attorney-General The Colonial Secretary The Acting Chief Justice
The amendment was therefore lost by a majority of three. The clause was adopted as it stood.
The ACTING ATTORNEY-GENERAL moved that the consideration of sub-section 4 of Clause 3, which defines a common lodging house, be adjourned. He said he had just received a communication from certain Chinese who wanted some alterations made which he had not had time to consider.
The consideration of the sub-section was postponed accordingly.
Hon. WONG SHING addressed the Council on sub-section 8 of section 3, which defines hillside as—"The face of the natural hill, or the face of any scarp or retaining wall built to support the same, or any artificial filling in or terracing with earth behind such scarp or retaining wall, made with the object of supporting a street or forming a site for a building." He said the whole town was built on the side of a hill. He referred as an example to the houses built between Queen's Road and Stanley Street. Stanley Street was higher than Queen's Road and a person building in Queen's Road must have a wall on the hillside to support Stanley Street. If that was to be called the hillside then most houses were built against the hillside except those on lots recovered from the sea.
His EXCELLENCY—I do not quite see the point. This is a mere definition.
Hon. WONG SHING said that when they came to clause 62 they would find that no human habitation was allowed to abut on the hillside. There must be an intervening space of at least four feet. Therefore all the houses in Queen's Road would have to cut off four feet.
His EXCELLENCY—I really do not see how this affects the case at all. It is merely a definition of what hillside is. What amendment do you propose?
Hon. WONG SHING said he proposed to cut out the words "supporting a street."
The SURVEYOR-GENERAL—The explanation seems very clear. The hillside is either the natural hillside itself or a wall supporting that hillside to prevent it falling down. It is therefore the natural hillside or the artificial hillside.
His EXCELLENCY—Does anyone second the hon. member's proposition?
The SURVEYOR-GENERAL—I think the hon. member merely asked for an explanation.
Hon. WONG SHING—Yes. You must have walls for the support of Stanley Street.
The SURVEYOR-GENERAL—If a house were built against a retaining wall for the support of the hillside, then that would practically be resting against the hillside.
Hon. P. RYRIE—I think most of the houses my hon. friend refers to have got retaining walls. The thing would be to exempt those already built because it would be ridiculous to make people in Stanley Street or Wellington Street leave a space now. The houses have been built forty years.
The SURVEYOR-GENERAL—But we are only dealing with the definition now; we will come to that by-and-by.
His EXCELLENCY—Yes, this is merely a definition.
The ACTING CHIEF JUSTICE—It seems to me that hon. members are reading the 62nd section and the 8th sub-section of section 3 together. The definition is quite clear. But then it will become a question whether section 62 will pass, whether the houses referred to require four feet space.
The Council may say that is not necessary. So far as the definition is concerned it is perfectly clear, but it is another question whether section 62 ought not to be altered.
His EXCELLENCY—This is only a short definition of what "hillside" means. I don't see that it will affect the merits at all when we come to discuss section 62.
The sub-section was then agreed to.
Hon. J. BELL-IRVING suggested that as many houses are let in flats the words "the whole of" in section 9, which defines "householder" as the actual tenant or occupier of the whole of any building, should be omitted.
The ACTING ATTORNEY-GENERAL said this definition was taken from Ordinance 7 of 1866. This was the law as it had been since 1866 and no reason had ever been given why it should be changed, nor had it been shown that it had ever worked any hardship.
Hon. C. P. CHATER—I have much pleasure in seconding the proposal of my hon. friend. In doing so I may point out that, as he has intimated, most of the Chinese houses here are let in flats, and if the words "the whole" are not taken out, probably the landlord will be very often brought up and fined for the actions of the tenants. The Attorney-General says this definition has been the law for some years and there has been no objection to it, but then we had not this Ordinance. It is the working of this Ordinance which would be injurious to the householder, as defined in this section.
The SURVEYOR-GENERAL—I think the objections of the hon. members might be met by inserting "or a part thereof."
The ACTING ATTORNEY-GENERAL—Then you would have several householders for the same building.
His EXCELLENCY—If this is to be a real Bill, as we all wish it to be, we must give the Executive the power of coming down on some abode. This Government has never been hard upon anybody in enforcing an Ordinance, but the object is to be able to get at somebody.
The ACTING CHIEF JUSTICE—I would suggest, sir, that the consideration of this clause stand over, because I think any alteration might interfere considerably with the Victoria Registration Ordinance, the whole object of which...
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