The Daily Press.
HONGKONG, JULY 23RD, 1887.
THE PUBLIC HEALTH BILL. The ACTING ATTORNEY-GENERAL-I beg to renew my motion for the second reading of a Bill entitled "An Ordinance for amending the laws relating to Public Health in the Colony of Hongkong."
The SURVEYOR-GENERAL seconded.
Hon. P. RYRIE-I don't like to be an obstructionist, but really this Bill only reached me and the other unofficial members yesterday afternoon, and as far as I know the Chinese know nothing about it. There has been a whole fortnight to make these alterations in the Bill, and yet we only get it twenty-four hours before the meeting. I think that is hardly what the members of this Council desired, or what they think is fair treatment. A fortnight was given, and it is only on the afternoon before the Council meets that this is put before us. As for my own part, I have not had time to look at it. Mails have been coming in and going out, and I have had a meeting of a public company to attend. I certainly think more time should be given us to carefully read the Bill over and discuss it. There are material alterations in it. I can see, but I have not had time to study them. I have glanced over them certainly, but as I say, I have not had time to study them and I don't think any of my colleagues have had time either. I therefore move that the second reading of this Bill be postponed.
Hon. J. BELL-IRVING-I beg to second the amendment. I can confirm all the remarks of my hon. friend who has last spoken. I only received the amended rough draft last evening about 5 o'clock, and I have not had time to look over it in order to see what the alterations are. What my hon. friend says about the Chinese I think is perfectly correct. The Chinese certainly ought to have a translation of the Bill and ought to have time to go carefully into it and discuss it among themselves. I think before the second reading we ought to have a week to consider the amendments.
The ACTING ATTORNEY-GENERAL-I am sorry to have to oppose this amendment. There is nothing in the standing rules and regulations which requires that the amendments should be printed. When I last moved the second reading of the Bill I stated very fully what were the changes the Government were prepared to accept in Committee, and any hon. member of this Council having the Bill before him could very easily have followed me and made the necessary alterations. In fact, they are very few indeed. The principal alterations are omissions, and when I stated what were the clauses the Government were prepared to drop any hon. member could very easily have passed his pen through them. The other alterations are very few, and, as I have already said, they might easily have been made when I announced the intentions of the Government on moving the second reading. There is nothing which requires the amendments to be submitted before going into Committee, and it is only as a matter of courtesy and convenience that the Bill has been printed with alterations. We consider the grounds put forward for postponement are not sufficient to warrant any further adjournment. They are matters which can be considered in committee and which hon. members will have full opportunity for considering when the Council goes into Committee.
Hon. P. RYRIE-I don't know whether I am in order, but if the alterations are so trivial as my friend says, why did he require a fortnight to make them?
Hon. A. P. MACEWEN-Sir, I am not surprised that this proposition should be made by my hon. friends opposite, because I think it is only reasonable. I remember when I agreed at the last meeting to the postponement of the second reading of the Bill it was on the understanding that it would be reprinted in its amended form. And what the hon. member opposite (the Acting Attorney-General) has said about the unofficial members may be all right, but we have to consider the public. We often get hints from the public. I am perfectly willing to agree that the speech of the hon. member was clear to us, but a great many people do not see the papers and they look to the Bill itself to study it carefully. Nobody is more anxious than myself to see this Bill passed, but I think the suggestions of the hon. members opposite are reasonable, and I hope Your Excellency will postpone the second reading for a week and that the Bill will be printed to-night and circulated to-morrow.
His EXCELLENCY-Before we vote I wish to say that I cannot help thinking that what one hon. friend, the Attorney-General, said was very reasonable, and I never understood myself on the occasion that the Bill was to be at once reprinted. It was supposed that all that was necessary was to make the necessary marginal notes and to forward to every member of Council a copy. I am very sorry to hear that that did not reach them as early as I anticipated. I am very, very sorry, but I do not see why if we are fully prepared to go on with the discussion, the general discussion on the second reading, we should not do so. If it is to enter into all those points that have already been referred to and on which the Government is perfectly willing to make concessions. I certainly do not see why we should not go on with the general discussion and, if we find afterwards that it is necessary to adjourn before that discussion is completed, before we have arrived at anything definite, I think it will be time to consider the adjournment. But I am certainly against the adjournment at present.
Hon. A. P. MacEwen referred to the standing orders, which require that a copy of a Bill should be forwarded to members two clear days before it is read. He said His Excellency had confessed that it was with regret he learned that hon. members had only been placed in possession of a copy of this Bill a few hours before the second reading was proposed.
His EXCELLENCY asked if the rule mentioned by Mr. MacEwen did not refer to the first reading of Bills.
The ACTING ATTORNEY-GENERAL-Yes, it refers to the first reading. I was under no obligation whatever to send this corrected copy. All I had to do was to state what were the alterations the Government was prepared to make, and these were not so numerous but what hon. members could have marked them in their own copies of the Bill. If a point is made of it, it will be a question for me to consider next time whether I shall send amended copies. All we are concerned with now is the general principle of the Bill - shall this Bill be read a second time? Minor points can come on afterwards.
Hon. P. RYRIE-I distinctly state that I vote against the principle of the Bill until we have had proper time for considering it.
Hon. C. P. CHATER-I would call your Excellency's attention to the statement made by you at the last meeting that this was a most important Bill demanding much consideration, and that the Council could be called together from time to time to suit the convenience of hon. members. After the statement of my hon. friends I feel certain your Excellency, seeing we have not had time to go into the details of this Bill in its amended form, will grant the postponement asked for by the unofficial members.
His EXCELLENCY-Of course it is always rather unpleasant to have one's own words thrown upon one, but I feel on this occasion my conscience is very clear. I have always said that so long as we progress with the Bill, I was very anxious that all due time should be given for consideration. But I think time has been given for consideration, and I really don't see any inconsistency in suggesting to the Council that we ought to be prepared on this occasion to go on with the general discussion of the Bill. I feel perfectly sure that there are hon. members of the Council present who are quite prepared to throw a great deal of light on this question, and I really do not see the necessity of postponing for another week the preliminary discussion of this Bill.
The amendment was then put and a division taken which resulted as follows:-
AYES.
Hon. C. P. Chater
Hon. J. Bell-Irving
Hon. A. P. MacEwen
Hon. Wong Shing
Hon. P. Ryrie
NOES.
The Harbour Master
The Surveyor-General
The Colonial Treasurer
The Acting Attorney-General
The Acting Colonial Secretary
The Acting Chief Justice
The amendment was therefore lost by a majority of one.
Hon. A. P. MacEwen said he wished to call attention to another irregularity. The standing orders required that the clerk should send to each member of Council a copy of the general orders two days before the meeting. His copy did not reach him until the previous night. That was a distinct irregularity.
The ACTING ATTORNEY-GENERAL-That need not prevent our going on. There is nothing which says that if it is not sent we cannot go on. It is merely a direction for the clerk. If there were any good reasons given for not going on, those reasons would have to be taken into consideration.
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