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Enclosure 2.
1st April, 1886.
THE CATHEDRAL AND THE ECCLESIASTICAL GRANTS.
Hon. T. JACKSON-Sir, I beg to move the second reading of the Cathedral Ordinance Bill, 1886.
The COLONIAL TREASURERI second the motion.
The CHIEF JESTICE- Before the Bill is read
a second time I would suggest it would be as well to withdraw it and submit it
to the Secretary of Stato. The Bill as framed is very nearly in the same words as two Ordinances that are at present in force, with some minor alterations, leaving out some portions, and simply consolidating them. But we have been told that when the present Colonial Chaplain retires the whole system must be re- modelled, and we have already by a resolution of this Council asked the Secretary of State to re- consider his decision and let mattors remain on the footing they are now. If he would do so the Ordinance might well be passed and be carried into effect in the same way in which the existing Ordinances have been carried into effect for so many years. It will be a question for the Secretary of State as to whether really the alterations that would have to be made in the Bill if his proposal were carried into effect are worth while under the circumstances, seeing they only relate to the salary of one clergyman. The arrangement en- tered into so long ago as 1845 or 1847 was that there should be a subscription for the building of the church and the Government contribute two-thirds and the public ona third, and upon that understanding the Cathedral was to be made over to trustees, who were to be appointed, four by the Government and two by the subscribers; and the Colonial Chaplain was to be appointed by the Government and to be under the superintend- ence of the Government. In return for the large contribution the Government gave the arrangement was that so many seata in the church should be free, because we have to pro- vide not only for the wants of this community, but some provision has to be made for the large number of people constantly passing through- travellers, sailors, and all sorts of people con- stantly passing through whose wants the Go- vernment up to the present time have takeu into consideration. Besides that an arrange- ment was made that a certain number of seats should be provided for officials and for the mili- tary, and an arrangement was made that during the Sunday the military should have the ad- vantage of one service entirely to themselves. Now, if the government grant is to be withdrawn altogether, the question arises, to whom is the Government going to hand over the Church, to what body. We should have, I presume, to do as they have done in other places, constitute in some way a church body-to whom the structure would be handed over. Then who is to appoint the clergyman ? If the Government do not pay his salary they can hardly claim the right to ap point him. Then there are other considerations | involved. Are these seats at present kept free- some of them the best seats, too--are they to be ratained for the purposes specified? It seems to ae, giving judgment on the whole matter, it would be far better to let things romain as they
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are. We are not a sufficiently large body here to render it necessary to form a church body in the place.
We are not a stationary coin- muaity. As has been pointed out in this Council before, the population is constantly changing, and a generation has been stated by us to be no longer than ten years. Un- der these cirennstauces it seems to me if the Government would give way and allow things to remain as they are it would be a great að- vantage to us; but if not, then I think it would be advisable, sir, for you to communicate with the Secretary of State and inquire what arrange- ments are to be made in case this is carried out. To whom is the church to be handed over? Who is to appoint the minister? Who is to dis- miss him, if necessary -because it might so happan that a minister might be appointed whose private character was not good--such things have happened before--or whose faith in the principles of the Church of England might become weak- oned or lost; and it would be necessary to have something shown as to who could dismiss him. These things ought to be brought to the notice of the Secretary of State, and I think you would be doing a considerable service
the
colony if you would point out matters should remain as they are; it is hardly worth while to change them; but if they are to be changed, that the Secretary of State should give us some information as to what manner of legislation is required. It seems to me it will be no saving of money, because something must be done for providing religions privileges for some portion of the community. We should always want, we would always expect from the Gover-i mont, an allowance for the gaol, the hospitals, and also, if the matter was thrown on the community, I some assistance towards providing for the wants of the sailors, or at all events for their decent barial. In that case I think the least the Church" of England could expect from the Government would be equivalent to the salary the clergymau now gets and the few extra expenses. I shall therefore move as an amendment to the reading of the Bill a second time that it be referred to the Secretary of State.
to
The ACTING ATTORNEY-GENERAL-I second that amendment. If a change is to be made this Bill might not work at all under the now system to be established, and it would hardly be worth while considering details which would be inap- plicable if the Secretary of State proceeds in his determination. It is merely a consolidation of the old Ordinances and there would be nothing gained in passing it to-day.
HIS EXCELLENCY-Perhaps the better plan would be for my hon. friend, if he has objection, to withdraw his motion for the second reading.
Hon. T. JACKSON-I shall be very glad to do
80.
HIS EXCELLENCY-[have already transmitted home to the Secretary of State the resolutions passed unanimously at the last mesting, and by the next mail I will transmit this Bill, which has been read a first time, together with the re- marks that have been made by the Chief Justice,
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