out any exception in favour of wooden ships, that come within the purview of the Act, and they have been laid down, as I have said, for the regulation of surveyors who are conducting the same kind of survey which surveyors are required to make here by Ordinance 8 of 1879. The question of the survey of ships is provided for in our local Ordinanco, but at the saras time the subject is one for which the Board of Trade have made uniform provision wherever the Marchant Ship- ping Act applies; and all the alterations, I think it is within the knowledge of the Council-al- most all the amendments to the Merchant Ship- ping Ordinance made here have been introduced more or less on the suggestion of the Board of Trade with a view of keeping the Ordinance in strict harmony with the policy of the Board of Trade and the Merchant Shipping Acts at home. And although the amendment of the Ordinance in the manner proposed is a subject on which the unofficial members of this Council are specially qualified in many ways to pronounce au opinion -more competent than the members of the Government itself in many ways-yet I think there
are good reasons why the Govern- Iment should hesitate to accept such an amendment as proposed. The Board of Trade, or the Government Surveyor in this Colony, intervene in these matters and insist upon the observance by passenger ships of certain con- ditions in the interests of passengers, that is to say, the travelling public who use these ships. It is not to be supposed they of themselves have the knowledge or opportunity of seeing whether the conveyance provided for them reasonably com- plies with the conditious required. The Go- vernment takes on itself by Ordinances of this: description to be to a largo extent answerable for the safety and sufficiency of vessels provided for public travelling. That is the position taken up by the Board of Trade, and it is the only position which would justify the Government in interfering with matters of this kind at all. Now I submit if that is so, a local Government such as this, with no large opportunities of forming opinions of its own on questions of this kind, which I may say are scientific questions, is bound to boguided by such guidance as is provided for it by the Board of Trade, which has the best scientific advice and the largest range of observation in do- termining what regulations are necessary. It would be a very rash thing for the Government here to abandon a regulation the Board of Trade has found it necessary to impose in favour of such a provision as is proposed to be incorpor- ated here. The effect of the amendment of the law as proposed by my hon. friend's resolution would come to this: Let the Government, as before, guarantee to the public the safety of these ships, but instead of satisfying itself as to their safety in the way the Board of Trade pro- vides and requires, iustead of taking the test which the Board of Trade has laid down as be- ing proper and sufficient, it shall take instead a test of an altogether different character; that is to say, it shall be reasonably satisfied without examination, on some report or other, that the ship is in a proper state. Now what I would suggest is that if the Government has taken on itself to make those survoys, and make them as a guarantee to the public of the safety of the skip, it ought to be allowed to do it in its own way, and unless the Board of Trade see fit to make some modification in favour of ships of this description the existing law should remain as it is. I would suggest tho best way of dealing with this question, if my hon. friend sees fit to adopt it, is that the fact that such a proposition as this has been approved of by the unofficial mem- bors of Council should be reported to the Board of Trade, who exercise a minute supervision over such matters, and that the question be sub- mitted to them. This would be better than call- ing on the Government to take the course pro- | posed.
Hon. P. RYRIE--Wo are not governed by the Board of Trade. What have wo got to do with them?
Hon. T. JACKSON-Your Excellency, I think the Board of Trade, in framing these regu- lations, were legislating more for ocean going steamers than for river steamors, because there are no river steamers of this kind in England to any extent.
His EXCELLENCY-On the Thames.
Hon T. JACKSON-Bat that is only for a very short distance, and I do not know whether these
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regulations would be carried out with reference to the steamers which ply on the Thames. I think that in dealing with these matters must be guided by what is reason- ab'e, and I think it is unreasonable if, th Naval authorities state, the bull of the vessel can be survoyel by putting her into clear water, that she should have to be docked every year for survey by the Marine Surveyor. There is no question that putting a wooden vessel into dock does not do it any good. Hor lines may be warped, and apart from the inconvenience caused there is a chance of possible loss. trust that the Council will agree to the pro- position of my hon. friend opposite, and that they will not insist on theso vessels being dooked every year for survey, but that on the other hand the Marine Surveyor, will be satisfied with what is reasouable, and will ascertain the con- dition of the vessel's hull without putting her in dock by seeing by divers whether she is suit- able for traffio. "I do not think too much super- vision can be exercised over vessola as regards enginesand boilers, but as regards vessels running between Hongkong and Canton there cannot be the slightest chance of loss of life from the condition of the hull of the steamer, as it is in a river the whole way.
His EXCELLENсr-I will ask my hon. frioud who makes this motion whether he will with. draw it for the present and allow it to be re- ferred to the Secretary of State for the consi- deration of the Board of Trade I do not think I should be justified in sanctioning any altera tion in the law at present existing without re- ference to the Secretary of State, direduktased. a. I understand that there is a uniformi- ty of practice in other colonies established by the Board of Trade, and we should be disturbing this uniformity of practice if we were to agree to such a proposal as that which has now been made. I would therefore suggest that the course I have named should be adopted. if my hon. friend will withdraw his motion. I will undertake to for ward any statement which the Chamber of Com- merce may think fit to make upon the subject for the consideration of the Secretary of State. It does seem to me that there might be some ex- ceptional legislation for these steamers, but I do not think I should be justified in sanctioning an alteration in the law on that subject without first referring it to the Secretary of State.
Hon. W. KESWICK-Your Excellency, I have Touch pleasure in accepting the suggestion you have made with regard to this motion. Its without object, I hope, may be obtained, an alteration of the law, as I think the question resta simply on the interpretation.
His EXCELLENCY-I think it is in the law itself.
Ion. W. KESWICK-Regard should be had, I think, to the special waters in which these vessels ply. They are not ocean going vessels, but are more like ferry boats, and the whole of their machinery and their fittings are above water. It has occurred to me, and I think to most people who have considered the subject, that it is not so much in the law as in the application and interpretation of it that the difficulty arises. It is intended that the hull of the ship shall be sufficient for the service intended. If the surveyor can satisfy himself that the hall is in that state with- out the vessel's being docked I see no reason why a certificate to that effect should not be granted; but I have much pleasure in complying with your Excellency's suggestion, and I hope this discussion will have answered its purpose.
RIS EXCELLENCY-I would suggest that the Chamber of Commerce should state the case fully.
The CHIEF JUSTICE-Or the Company. HIS EXCELLENCY-Yes, or the Company.
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