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Monday, February 24, 1941, Wyndham St., Hongkong Telephone: "20615
THE presx "Special to the Telegraph" is used by the "longkong Telegraub" to indicate news which is seletty copyright under the provisions of the Telecommuni- cations urdinance, 1935, Such news a bears the indication "U" is received in Slongkong on the date of publication by the United Press Associations, who re servo all rights and forbid republicatious, either wholly or in part without previous arrangement
MATSUOKA'S OFFER
MR Matsuoka, Japan's Foreign Minister, is reported to have offered to do anything in the For Eant that would serve to restore a feeling of security. That is a most Interesting Giving Mr Matsuoka proposition.
085
RALPH INGERSOLL
February 24, 1941.
Ralph Ingersoll is the Editor of the New York nows- paper, "PM," and Ben Robertson is the journal's London Correspondent. Both have seen London in the worst In view of the wide periods of the Nazi air raids. publicity given to the statements made by Mr Joseph P. Kennedy, the former U.S. Ambassador to London, con- cerning America's defence problems and international problems bearing on Britain's war effort, Ingersoll took the extraordinary step of interviewing his own reporter on the matter of the Ex-Ambassador's record in London in order to find out what Mr Kennedy's words were worth. Some time ago Mr Kennedy disowned an interview published in the "Boston Globo" in which he suggested that it was erroneous to think that democracy was alivo in England.
WDR
INGERSOLL: No one likes being to us and do something about it im- was almost like a bombed. Why didn't the British Gov- incdlutely. He errment leave London? They were as father to his personal concern about
BEN ROBERTSON free to go to the country as Joe Ken our safely. One day some of us were nedy:
going to Dover. He phoned us. What "ROBERTSON: The Government be, Hotel were we going to stay at? How INGERSOLL; Ex-Ambassador Ken- leved in what they were fighting for long were we going to be there? Ite the reason Washington sent Donovan nedy, you know, is talking on the and they stayed it their posts. He got us en planes into England and out (Col. Willlarn, J. Donovan of the
have
was right. We know Kennedy any came hoine as quickly as he could.
of England and we nil were grateful Fighting 88th) over-in order to see who radio to-night. Did you chance to know him when you were INGERSOLL: That's just your own to him, In London? Did you have any busi opinion?
INGERSOLL: It may be an unkind furious about Donovan's arrival. While ROBERTSON: No. That WAR with hin7 Dld you and the
the thing to say but from what you have he was there, there was a rumour that other American correspondents there opinion of most of the correspondents, told me I would believe thin: Jua Ken- Kennedy hnd resigned three thine We slone were: They weren't Kennedy's Interest yourselves at all in how this They come in all coloura arid shapes nedy was a very sensitive men on the certainly know what Donovan's conclu- country was being represented in and sizes but correspondents aren't subject of safety.
taken in very leng. One funny thing ROBERTSON! Yes. He frequently at all. Landon?
INGERSOLL: Donovan thought it HOBERTSON: Yes we did. We about Kennedy was int he never urged nil of us to no home.
We seemed to think anybody would re. INGERSOLL: Did he ever say my was a good cause, well fought. Then had constant business with him.
have come from talking with other saw hun on many occasions. In fact, member his off-the-record speeches thing to you about what he thought you think Donovan's confidence may to the American correspondents, how we never printed them, of course. Britain's war alms were?
ROBERTSON: He said, "I can't American observers,
ROBERTSON: The British turned well we were represented was one of But we were all highly interested In the most important questions we fell London when we read about one of inake head or tail out of what this wo had to answer. You know, London them in the "Boston Globe." He told war's all about. If you can find out over everything to him. He saw every. the British Dre standing up body as you did and I think his con- in the midst of the war is a small town us the general sense, exactly what was why
INGERSOLL: Di Kennedy spend and everybody knows everybody else, in the interview he disowned. He against the Nazis you are a better man clusions were based on that, too.
an much time with the British milliary especially among the American colony, once told me that he saw nothing in than I am." We were in particularly close contact store for the world but anarchy, with the Arabassador because we were INGERSOLL: It hardly reflects the extraordinary statement for any am- people at Dover and at the mlillary ROBERTSON: I never saw him in ail ailens is a country that was at war quality of fighting for one's principles bassador-particularly one representing airport?
President who has been no out- and every step we took had to be that is no characteristic of Mr Roose a
ture taken in any of the army camps. taken through the Ambarcador. We vell nud the Administration air Ken- spoken in his analysis of the forces in Dover at all and I never saw his ple-
volved in the war, in Europe,
INGERSOLL: Did he spend much were in and out of his office every day nedy was representing in London.
line visiting shelters will correspon. dents?
on some business or ather. All of us. INGERSOLL As I recall, you also gat to know the men who were Bght- Ing the Nazis pretty well too-the at- tive members of the British Govern- ment, men who were shooting down Messerschmills, hunting raiders and submarines. Do you think they could have concealed their real opinions from you?
ROBERTSON: No, certainly not. If you go through a crisis with people there is sure to come a time when you slop talking for the record and mak- ing diplomalle speeches and say what you really think.
Possibly you INGERSOLL: nsked such an indiscreet questions "What do you think of the American Ambassador in London? sometime or olher?
even
· ROBERTSON: Yes. that is true. They told us what Kennedy had cald to them. In fact, one of the interest- ing things was to compare what Ken- nedy bad said to them with what he had said to us. Ile always led them to believe he was their greatest friend and even that last news reel he made -before he left the Embassy to get the plane to Lisbon-gave the im- plication that they were doing a fine Job and that he was on their alde. I was at the embassy when that news reel was being maite. It cheered up the British a great deal. They thought it was fine.
Said Different Things
INGERSOLL: I don't quite get that. You tell me that the British wero jrleacod by what he said to them, but it doesn't smd as if you Amerienu correspondents always were. Didn't he say the same thing to you that he said to them?
ROBERTSON: No. I was relieved when I heard about the news reel be. cause that hadn't been my impression at all. He had given me and other American correspondents the distinct impression that he was very sceptical about Britain's chances.
INGERSOLL: The American Am bassador said one thing to the British and another to the American corres- pondents?
ROBERTSON: Yes. In fact, I wo relieved when I heard what he said for the posa reef because I was afraid ho had lost confidence.
GERSOLL: Lost confidence? That
la Interesting. What kind of people 2011-did-be-tail to or do business with?
ROBERTSON: Well, he saw every Lody. But one whom he admired and uflen tatired about was Chamberlain. He often sald he was a misunderstood man and often mentioned that he was
proud about the fact that he was the one who had introduced Lindbergh to Chamberlain.
It is so difcult to get that, an Kennedy down. He was so devious. You remember how we talked about his logle-how we couldn't see that him conclusions could possibly come from hls premises?
INGERSOLL: That a rather
The PARADOX
of
KENNEDY
ROBERTSON: Not with til.
•
INGERSOLL Did he ever go to the fire department during a raid and see how the fires were going on when ilere were bombers about?
ROBERTSON: He was in the country. INGERSOLL Well, that interests As an me professionally of contrac, observer I don't see how a man con appraise the progress of a war with out visiting. It and assuring himself on the the equipment and morale of
American Did the fighting forces. military observers in the embassy get out and around?
ROBERTSON: All the time.
The
naval observers were with the ships of
Бел
INGERSOLL: And those aro
the
people whose opinion Kennedy passed- up?
ROBERTSON: Look You know what, Gen. Strong said when he came back, He believed the British could hold out.
ter-
INGERSOLL: I think that ribly important to the American people lo understand these things because we are 3,000 miles away and we have to take the opinion of expert witnesses. ROBERTSON: Since the Washing- tom left July 7 there haven't been 50 Americans who have come out of Eng- lond.
Why Sent An Envoy ?、 INGERSOLL: So you wouldn't say I was talking through my hat, if I said these things that the observers who got around the most, saw the most one heard the most were the correspon- dents and the military observers al- tached to the legation. And the ques- tion of how the war's going, if it comes to an issue with Mr Kennedy, is their word against his?
ROBERTSON: Their word and facts.
know, I doubt if INGERSOLL: You people really understand that. The title of ambassador is a pretty over-powering sounds so re- ong for most folks. I ilable and disinterested.
ROBERTSON: You know Kennedy al- ways wanted people to use his full ti His Excellency, the United States Ambas- Badar to the Court of St James.
INGERSOLL; He looks woil in a high hat. It is too bad American ambassadors don't get to wear knee breeches any more, RODERTSON: Even the Engilah don't dress for dinner now. They are busy Bghting a war. Look here. Can a fellow who is being interviewed nak a question? Do you know why President Roosevelt -sent. Mr. Kennedy to England in the first
place?
what
"blandishments"
That is elmuly!
the credit for being an honcurable man, is it not possible that his advisers, strongly coloured by Nazi- ism, are anxious to lull the Far East
Joseph P. Kennedy shrewdly made $5,000 while still a Harvard into a false sense of safety? That
student as co-owner of a bus. In 1914, when only 25, he became pres!- while we were listening to soft
dent of the Columbia Trust Co., a small-Boston bank During the Great cooings from Tokyo, this end of the
War business-minded Kennedy managed a shipbuilding plant of the
INGERSOLLA Not first hand. But after the lttle I had heard in London and efter Axls would be arming to the teeth
Bethlehem Steel Co., and later worked on Wall Street. Then the movies
the Louis Lyons interview in the "Boston to strike at a more opportune time?
beckoned, and from 1924 to 1920 he was connected with tho film in-
Globo made some enquiries. It appears Mr Matsuoka does not have to ask us
dustry, first as president of the Film Booking Offices of America and
that the same kind of thing you observed. In London had been going on in Washing. Inter as adviser to Kefth-Albee-Orpheum, First National, RCA and what he should do to restore harmony,
ton. That is-Kennedy's getting so in Paramount. After the 1929 erasli, he quit movies, with, it is estimated,
volved emailunally that some of the things As regards Britain, he should with-
something like $5,000,000 clear profit. In 1934, he cleaned up in a Lib-
he was saying privately sounded respon draw his army, navy and air force
sible. Someone suggested to the President bey-Owens-Ford stock pool, Soon after that, bis role as businessman- from Indo-China where they have no
that the simplest way out of this embar- financier was soft-pedalled. He was on his way to international politics.
Taskent would be to chango Mr good reason to be; he should cease
These facts of Kennedy's career are given in "PM."
Kennedy's address. Which wasn't hard to being the willing tool of our greatest ve
ROBERTSON: I don't think Ken- arrange because many people who are enemy, putting us on the defensive
ROBERTSON: No. But we never here
admitted because he has
worked their whole lives to pat an ap- He slil seems to think that, Britain
Perhaps had such an idea that he was a friendt nedy is concerned with those forces. Impressed by title and position have
Do you? thousands of German sallora and
wasn't prepared to fight.
the of the President's.
INGERSOLL: A man with a sense pointment to a foreign court, and Ken- military and naval experts to his
shouldn't have fought. But on
INGERSOLL: What made you say other hand he would give you the in-
of morality would be. In London you hedy was that kind of a man. At the foresaw how important to the future of shores, and to his councils, in cir
pression that they were right in fight, that? cumstances that have raised legi-
ROBERTSON: Well, the day he left end I both saw innocent people killed. me time no one in Washington really Ing. Our hooray for them. Sometimes timate suspicion of Japanese com-
he thought we should help them. he gave a party. He took his coat of We saw people fighting for the right civilation such a job would become. The pllcity in falder warfare at sen and
Sometimes he thought we shouldn't and said, loys, I'm going to say what to work out their own destiny. Wo most experienced people in Washington in army tactics near our borders,
Sometimes he said they were giving us haven't been able to for two years. Fow people willing to suffer all kinds write Kennedy's appointment off to politi and serious-minded responsible The Netherlands, Philippines and
a chance to arm. That we should arm i have been saying yes when I meant of hardship, risking death and destruc- col expediency. But I don't know tint
Our impression was that he was tion not only for themselves but for with my own knowledge. but that they would eventually lose no."
was your theory in London? Ching can look after themselves and
ROBERTSON: That's just about what we shall be behind them because, and that was that That we should going home to denounce the President the people they loved. Don't you think people in Washington have told me. What
ROBERTSON: Yes. Indeed, I think selfish as it may sound, their interests drop them overboard and that they and might back the Republicans. I that these things moved Kennedy?
didn't count. Still he told the people was so concerned 1 gat word to him
INGERSOLL: Oh, by the way. We have been tied up with ours almost
In the newsreel that they were doing to think it over before he neled. No they did move him. But still, it was I've heard in London.
Demperatle bad for business ☐ fine job.
man appointed by the Irrevocably by Japanese actions and
against the INGERSOLL I am gradually get- have only got a few fainutes left. Did Party can come out
you when you were in London? Do you! statements.
Inconsistency
nominee for the Democratic Party, ing what you mean. You left Lon- the British Government wine and dine INGERSOLL: Weil. I have got one Some of his secretaries told me they tion only a little while ago. Dld the think it is possible that you succumbed clear picture of Kennedy in London at least. Mr Kennedy was anton who had been arguing with him for days, British people you talked with still to what Senator Wheeles called BriUsh ROBERTSON: As correspondents, you Disillusioned
are hitting at us in our most senatiive dead against sold one thing at one time, and a dif. And it certainly was our impression it feel Kennedy was their friend?
London that he was
clid place. We talked about it all the time. HOBERTSON: They certainly ferent thing at another: one thing to Roosevelt. One correspondent even one person and one thing to another wrote up the story. The rest of us not. They were disillusioned and what INGERSOLL: Of course, I don't mean And belloved In Chamberlain
didn't get out on n' limb because we disillusioned them
were the state ist personally, Ben. I just mean, that Lindbergh? Is that accurate?
knew him. We knew how mercurial ments he made here. Like a man who loads of Americans think the British are ROBERTSON: YCE
technique of winding innocent foreigners INGERSOLL: Well, how can you ever since what har sened between the your back. They heard he was going around their fingers.
he was. We have been wondering poses as your friend talking behind ring people, and that they have a a Lime account for auch an Inconsistency? time he left London and the time be around here to dinners in Hollywood ROBERTSON: If anybody in Did anyone in London have any arrived in New York, When he came and other pinces talking off the record like this appears pro-rilish and, friendly theorlesf
ROBERTSON: We talked about it out for the President just before the with appeasement minded people. That to the British cause, he opens himself to Walter Hines Page school I tell you, constantly every day. He was a great election he was doing the same kind was the kind of laik they were help the accusation that he belongs to the the people who count in this war ara puzzle to us and finally the only way of thing he had been doing in London less to combat
uy one thing for the pubile and INGERSOLL That doesn't sound as too busy to buy champagne. We believe if the appeasement bloc in England everything we have written have shown we could explain it was that he was another in private. A Wall Street bear. He was n con- INGERSOLL: You know, talking to wa very strong. The appeasentent themselves really to be a tough people firmed pessimist and would sell any you about Kennedy in London is like bloc must have approved of Kennedy, and a sincere people and they can take it.
ROBERTSON: There is no appeaïc-
Like Ploncors INGERSOLL: I was interested to noto INGERSOLL: You mean that where- developing a negative in the deck as military men and working journal room. There's a picture emerging here ment bloc in England. If there a I
for overy bona fide member of the upper Ists and people whose lives are In- but it doesn't seem to me to be the certainly isn't saying anything now. that when I was with you in London, met you talked with INGERSOLL: The American Em- alasses that we volved in a war con get used to picture of one of America's great men. It has no power at all. bombing it may be harder for a big a docan't look like Benjamin Frank- business man who is jump about his in, the man who represented our in- bassy is not entirely a one man show. scores, if not hundreds of simple people diate responsibility of fighting, the Nazis lereals in France in the course of the There are many trained observers al- or people who were carrying the imme
tached to an embassy in a great capital, by putting out fires, shooting planes down profits?
Did the trained observers in the with ROBERTSON: He told us one day. American Revolution.
Roirerait and things like that. Liquor Dealer "This war's raising hell with my busl
I always thought that American legallon all see the situation
what they had to say about the war was ness."
ROBERTSON: He was a Ben Frank- the way he haw it? INGERSOLL: Yes, I can nee how it in though in one way. He was a ROBERTSON: Not any of them that a lot more significant than what Lord, Halifax lind to say. In Landon, I got a would. But was no thinking of the breath of fresh air to the English with Intend with, difference between the way people all his Irishness and his nine children. INGERSOLL: They didn't think the better understanding of the U.S.A. than I ever had before. I thought a lot about to original ploncers here and what, they take bombing. I don't know about
ROBERTSON: Not all
had fought for and I could see that the Kennedy personally but I did notice And they hall never had a liquor British case was hopeless?
INGERSOLL: Kennedy made up his Londoners measure up to them, in this that there were, some people in Lon dealer before as the ambassador of a don whose judgment was less affected foreign power.
INGERSOLL: Well, the Germans mind by himself then? Without tak now kind of war.
INGERSOLL: Well, to-night we will by fear than others.
ROBERTSON: We used to laugh used to send the English their Von ing their knowledge or advice?
ROBERTSON: He may have even have a chance to hear what his Excel
Jency tise Ambassador to the Court of about the fact that Kennedy slayed in Ribbentrop, who used to sell cham-
·St. Jamen, has to say about it all. Too INGERSOLL! What makes you say bad there's no way to put 100 or more the country most of the time instead page. I remember you telling me made his mind up before the event.
⚫then£7
American correspondents in London and ef in London; TE6 story that we Kennedy was an offelent follow in the heard all over London was that Ken- way he ran his embassy.
ROBERTSON: 110 had taken that line a score of trained military, and naval. nedy, having taken the stand he did ROBERTSON: He couldn't have been
publicly approving the Britishhe belter. And personally I hate to say long ago and felt he had to continue It, observers on national radio hook-ups, INGERSOLL: Then you go back to too, I think the American people would thought he had to stay long enough to anything against him because he was his belief iit Chamberlain and wind and their testimony pretty interesting in making up their minds about the legisla- be bombed. After ho had been there so helpful in that rospect. Timea were
lion now before Congre ROBERSTON: It was felt that the ROBERTSON: I am afraid the 'TORÍ three months he felt that was enough. serious in London and often we need- bergh and their ideas? He didn't like it. But he felt he was ed his help in our personal problems. obilgated to go through a few bombs We could always depend upon him. difference in opinion between Kennedy experts haven't got the money to buy the
He was always available, would listen and the milliary and naval aide was time on a nationst radio hook-up. and raids to save face.
How can we agree that their south- ward expansion is peaceful and economic when Tokyo statesmen invariably add the postscript that if their peaceful alms are not successful, they will prosecute them with arms? Such a polley is that of a gangster approaching a Policeman with the words, "I will not shoot if you hand over your revolver and let me take over your beat. I want to look after my friends and get a litle something on the side for myself."
We
If there is anything sincere about Japanese polley It is dislike of a war
Britain and America. with should appreciate that but for the. certain fact that when she is prepared and when the advaree starts, her military leadera will not hesitate to send the Japanese people into the conflict again it resistance is met.
Japan is somewhat like the good boy who strolled out of the family councils and, finding an easy-going wenker friend, fell to bullying. The little boy was not disciplined; in fact he managed to wrest some childish spoils which stimulated a latent avaricious streak. He strayed more often and took some beatings from his vletims but then he fell among bed companions who played upon his in- decision-whether to stay on the streets at night or go home to his own home and a regular, if small, wage.
It's the old story of law versus the lawless but nowadays every citizen belongs to the vigilantes. Japan will not be told: the democracies will not be cowed.
thing short
་
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