THE HONG KONG
ROCKEFELLLER AND CARNEGIE.
THEIR LABOUR CREEDS TOLD.
"
TELEGRAPH.
EXTRA
HONGKONG, SATURDAY, APRIL 24, 1915,
Oil and Iron Kings' Evidence at Industrial Inquiry responsible for the
Mr. Rockefeller:
I believe the best way to belp the labouring man is to give him good wages raiber than bave him become the object of charity.
I would be only to happy. to su render my Loldings, in whole or in part, if the work- ers eculd come to tho board of directora and get the profits. I would be hip- РУ to think that the labourers were my partners
Mr. Carnegie.
My business is to do all the good in the world that I can. Labur and capital will come day rank as one."
I always liked my mor and mymon like me. Theycall- ed the "Andy" When they call you Andy instead of Az- drew, or Mr. Carnegie, you know the boys are your friends.
Such were the statements of Mr. John D. Rockefeller, S., and Mr. Androw Carnegio in the course of evidence given at an industrial inquiry in Tobruary at New York. The following reperie are from the Philadelphia Public Ledger and the North American:-
hearers stretched their necks and atrained their ears to hear.every word;
Rockefeller for Profit Sharing.
Perhaps the most remarkable testimony came from Rockefeller when he was questioned as to his attitude toward labour. The Stand- ard Oil kiug declared the best way to help the labouring man would be to give him better wages rather than charity, and added?
"I would be happy to surren der my holdings, in whole or in part, if the workers could come into the boards of directors and
get the profits. I would be very happy to think that the labourers
ware my pariners."
"Did it ever occur to you that your foundations might become a menace to our democratic govern ment?" asked Chairman Walsh. Mr. Rockefeller said he had no
fear of that,
"Do you think that there is any tendency on the part of education- al institutions which you bave benefited to modify their courses" of instruction on, that account?" have had no occasion, for anxiety in that respect.
What means are there to pre. vent such results?" "I think I have relied upon the people, who are to watch constantly what use they are making of this fund. The legislature has the power to John D. Rockefeller, Sr., and Prevent any misuas of the fand. Is cannot be more interested in Andrew Carnegie were called as witnesses balore the United States doing that than I am." commission on industrial relations
denied this.
Nox York, Fab. 5
Contrast of Types.
I
Rockefeller Speaks Clearly, Mr. Rockefeller was assisted to this afteracos, to meet the charge the witness stand when he ap- that their philanthropic fovada-peared and demanded to be heard. tions may coome o menico to His voice was clear when he be haman liberty and the demo- cratic form of government. Both gan to read the statement he had
prepired.
The sole motive underlying Mr. Carnegie, the elder of the the various foundations which
bave established has been the two men who was 79 rears old in desire to devote a portion of my November, was by far the most fortune to the service of my remarkable witness that has yet fellow-men" he read. "The prin- appaured before the commission. ciples have been fully set forth in Sweeping the commission, aa as the audience off its feet by the the two chapters from my book, Random Reminiscences, which sheer force of his contagious per have already been made a part of sonality, he was allowed to tell his story i bis own way, and had the record of your commission," the room in roars of laughter without any effort being made to restrain big. With an appealing gesture of his arms, as if he want
well
ed to include the whole world in his philosophy of benevolence, the Laird of Skibo beamed with delight as he told how big as- Bocistes fondly called
*
him
'Andy," and how he wanted the
poor and distressed to share in his
happies.
but
I
read as follows:
of
restrict the power for service in As for Colorado, he said, he did anticipation of purely hypotheti-not go into the question of grier cal danger.'
auces or other detaile." He had Regarding the responsibility of not ecen a list of the grievances atookholders and directors for which the minera addressed to labour conditions, he said: the Colourado Fuel, and Iron "I think the stockholders are Company, nor had he even been responsible for the choice of the advised of any of the claims of best men as directors. The employesia the industries in which directore. Are altimately he was interested. They were
general beyond him, he said. conduct of the business, and in He favoured organisation of discharging that responsibility it men, he said, as I would never is their duty to select the best men deny to any man the things I felt
at liberty to do myself." to actually administer it.
"These administrativo officéri Chairman Walsh read to the must bare discretion and power witness the testimony of John D. commensurate with their resp - Rockoleler, Jr. before a congres sibility. A large stcokholder tional committee, in which he de- ordinarily would have more inclared that the camps of the flaence with a board of directors Colourado Fuel and Iron com- than a smaller one and company should be kept open and sequently would have a greater that the company would stand by responsibility for the selection of the executive offiners. directors who hee to it that the dministrativa officers maintained proper working conditions for their employes."
Faith in America People. Aside from the letter of gilt transferring $100,000,000 to the Rockefeller Foundation, Mr. Kloakefeller knew of no other deed to the money. He said be" had never worried" about the money evering to himself or his heirs siter bis death in case the legis lature should revoke the charier. "And I have great faith in the american people," he said. "In the people lies our protection."
Concerning his personal staff, be eaid:
I have always tried to select clean young men with ambition to make their way up in the world. From these young men I shall aelect the future heads of the business."
Mr. Rockefeller anid he saw Starr J. Murphy, of his personal st., about once a year. He bad met Charles W. Eliot, president emeritus of Harvard University, twice. He didn't know how many times a year he used to see Mr. Gates, who attended to all his pereanul business.
Mr. Rockefeller testified that he had never attended a mesting of the directors of the Rockefeller
|
"I believe,” said Mr. Rocke-
faller, "that the employer abould always stand by his faithfal em- ployes."
Mr. Rockefeller was then par- manently excused. As he left the stand, he said, "I think you, gentlen.co."
Carnegie Enjoys Himself.
It was a glorious day for Mr. Carnegie; be chuckled his way through a carefully prepared statement of his views and then sat down to answer questions. Every rule that Chairman Walsh had made and enforced for the proper conduct of the hearing west by the boarda within two minutes after Mr. Carnegie took the staud.
He began by saying that his, business was to do as machi good in the world as I can," and he left with the word that he hadn't spent a more agreeable after- noon, I don't know when."
16
:
$1
Last
"The Carnegie Institute of BRITISH DYES, LTD. to that calling I should not con sider the problem of labour as at Pittsburgh, one of the greatest
Sir William Ramaay, in a letter all difficult. On the contrary, I, gifts I have made, hon not been
To the Times, says that British enjoyed conferences with our mentioned. It has cost so far men. We had ons rule, coma $24,000,000 and has more then what may, we would never think 3,000 students, from forty-two Dyes, Ltd., is foredoomed to rex- од The first reason," he says," of running our werks with new states, 1,288 of whom are men tain failure for at least two rea- man. Able, sober, well-behaved from the industries, trying to im" is this: It is not under the workmen, auch sa cura were, are prove their conditions."
tific chemista must form' an not to be picked up on the streets, year, he said, the students earned management of chemists. Scien- and we wished no others. Wo $201,589 in their spare time.
Experience in the past sbows this were very particular, in regard to Another department, which Mr. important part of the directorate. necessity. Second.-Na protec- drinking: Fintoffence, men were Carnegie said he mentioned re-
tion from fersiga competition excluded thirty days; second luctantly and only because con- offence, sixty days; third offence, sideration had led him to believe will save the situation. The only it would be better to make no we parted company."
Mr Carnegie said that he bad exception whatever, was described messure is the total exclusion of German dyes. Even yet we ars "one serious disaster as follows:
blind to methods of German com had only
After retiring from business
merce. German manufacturers, with labour." This was at the time'. of the riot at Homestead, Pa. Mr. I soon found that the widows of Carnegie was abroad at the time, friends who passed away were and when be heard of it wanted scraly troubled how best to se to rotura bome, but his partners sure the safety of fands left to them. I volunteered to accept requested him not to do so.
Some of the men at the the money of one widow, giving worke," Mr. Carnegie said "cabled her my note for the amount and me: Kind master, tell us what agreeing to pay 6 per cent a year sou want us to do and we will do The relief she felt was so surpria
ing that I continued doing this it for you."
other dear friends passed sway, until the number of do positors: has now reached 148 with a total of $3,137,394 in de-
Wages were advanced 30 per as
cent, Mr. Carnegie sail, after that
incident..
ነነ
posits.
Labour and capital," he said, will come day tank as one." Only once, Mr. Carnegie said, "I do not know of ang service had he had experiense with a de- to widowe which brings such re termined effort to commit, wrong lief. Of course the deposits and on the past of labour. This was security are regularly examined when men at the Edgar Thomp by a representative of the state son blast furnaces sent in a writ- department of banking. Six per ten demand for an immediate cent is a Ligher rate than banke advance in wages with the altor would pay, but I feel quite justi- native of leaving the furnaces un-fied in being liberal. worked. Mr, Carnegie said that he left New York immediately upon receiving a telegram.to this cffect and reached the works the next morning.
backed by the whole power of the German State (if at the end of the war there is a German State), will undersell our producers of dye- stuffs, secure the whole market, and thus establish a monopoly. That has been their policy in the past; it will be their policy in the future. Lat us be warned in time. There is ample chemical talent in this country, both scientific and technical. Every chemist is auxious to serve his ountry; What is needed is to call togeth- era council of chemists, k for. their collaboration in investiga
intended to exclude absolutely. tion and for thei: advice. Also it should be announced that it is the importation of all German dyes, and capital will flow in
Any other policy is short sighted. The German chemical industry is worked as a huge I confess to being greatly trust, backed by the whole power surprised to learn within the last of the German State. The French 481 pensioners upon my list re-considering this policy of ex- few days that I have no less than and the Russians are seriously ceiving a total of $214,954 a year. olucion; and if Britain etill per He talked with the leaders of These pensions are continued to mits imports, this will be the the men, he said, all of them ad- the widows. This fund has also dumping ground of all Germany's Keeps Audience Roaring, mitting that they had contracted been kept secret hitherto, but Do you not believe, Mr. to work at certain wages. You your call for a statement of all Mr. foundations seems to embrace Carnegie said he told the leader this. Carangie" began Chairman have sigued that treaty," Walsh, after Carnegie.
Now, Mr. Chairman," inter-of the men," and you on break Has Given $334,657,399 Away,
Sir William Ramsay givea "The complete statement up to rapted Mr. Carnegie, you say it, but the grass will grow over. 'do you not believe that implies these works before we will have the close of last year shows that numerous instances of soientific you believe and that you want me such men in our employ. It will total of our foundations and gifts chemists serving on the boards to agree. I don't like that. be heralded through the world as amounts to $324,657,300. The of some of the most important Please be kind enough to say, 'do a disgrace of labour. You have work still gone bravely on, thanke kindred companies.
to the wise management of the you believe,"
"There was no strike. That is able and willing trustees, and the best service I ever rendered also of the employes, who often 68sure me that it is labour in to American labour.
"We began manufacturing with which they delight: Tam, indeed,
น
.
The audience roared and Mr. Foundation. He sometimes com-
directors Walsh said he would try to re- municated with the through his son. He thought be member. An outbreak came when had no more rights in the bard Mr. Carnegie said that he got along all right with his workmen. than any of the other director.
Reverting to the meeting with He referred to McLuckie, the Mr. King, at Tarrytowa, Mr. Homestead bargess who said, Rockefeller said that he did not "That was damned white of recall that the labour troubles in Andy.".
Colourado were discussed. He did not think they were.
Regarding the responsibility of stockholders and directors for labour conditions he said:
Director's Responsibility.
"We had no trouble in keep ing order until you cams, Mr. Carnegie," said Chairman Walsh, when he could make himself heard.,
your answer; go.
4
chemical products, natil, com petition being strangled, wo shall have to pay.exorbitantly for all manufactured articles me ported.
on was he didn't advertise. I believe in advertising."
Morris Hil quit, Scoialist lea der, finished his testimony to day. a capital of $7,500; my share I a most fortunate man, and think de Enid that the investigation by borrowed from a bank in Pitte myself in nothing else so happy the Rockefeller Foundation into bargh," said the witness, describes in a sonl remembering my dear industrial relations, at the time friends, to whom I owe so much. the government was conducting ing his start as un iron master.
Mr. Carnegie referred to an Mr. Carnegie after he had its own investigation was "one of sticle which he published in finished reading his statement, the most errogant challenges ever 1888 in which he expressed the was questioned by the commis-issued by an individual againet the government and the people." opinion that "the man who dies sion.
The witness attacked John D. Rockefeller. Jr., for his lack of rich dies disgraced.” In this
knowledge of labour conditions in Colorado and advocated that the
of
"I never hd such a good time
industrial relations commission
manent body with increased
powers to investigate on the spot and publicly, all industrial distor banges," also that the powera of the foundations should be limited. They were now, he said, through endowments of educational insti
tutionals" making a bold-nessult проп the intellectual indepen dance of this country.
Mr. Rockefeller's statement ap- peared in question and answer
riola Mr. Carnegie wrote that "I'm glad of that," replied the the day was not far distent when in my life," he said, “us when I form. Answering a question as to his purposs and plans with re- "I think the stockholders are irou master extending his arms the man who died leaving behind was talking to the workmen or spect to the expenditure of responsible for the choice of the and turning toward the crowd. him millions of, available on their committee. I always liked
What an audienos See how which were free for him to ad. my men and men liked me. They should be established as a per $2,000,000 annually, reserved for best man as directore. The di-
you Andy instead of Andrew or his personal use by the Rocke-reckra are ultimately responsible many Isdies there are here. That's minister daring life would pass called me Andy. When they call feller Foundation, the answer was for the general conduct of the one of the greatest triumphs of away unwept unhoncured and Mr. Carnegie you know the boys
uniang," no matter to what use' business, and in discharging that my life."
are your friends.". "The Rockefeller Foundation responsibility it istheir dutyto se- Here the laughter and applause he might leave his fortune."
The rudience roared with Such, in my opinion," Mr. was a development into imperson-lect the best mentoactually admia became a tamalt and Mr. Car-
laughter. at form of my ona personal plans ister it. These administrative of negie said he would like to say Carnegie said, "is the true gospel Pat lond laughter in there" giving, followed for many years: Rices must have discretion and something about the subject of concerning wondd, ond one to Mr. Carnegie said, turning to the
which is destined some day to Sitting in the same chair a few while I desire to have the di-power commensurate with their women:
stenographer. "I am thoroughly minutes later, Mr. Rockefeller, rectors of the foundation free to responsibility.
"I took a trip around the World solve the problem of the rich and
enjoying myself," he added. four years Mr. Carnegie's junior, use the funds as they might see "A large stockhold "ordinarily once. I left the boye at home to the poor and to bring Peace on
"Now President Eliot, of Har
Mr. Hiliquit quoted Jobu, D. vard, said," Chairman Walah re Rockefeller, Jr., as saying that looking much older, fit, in making my last gift I would have more influence with a do the work while I went out and Earth, Among Men Goodwill."
Tells of Hia Pensions. in colder and more studied reserved the right to designate board of directors than a smaller played, One day in China I was
Since the Carnegie pension marked," he thought the grant the best form of philanthropy is phrase, with no display during my lifetime the specific one and consequently it would sitting with the mandarins (you of emotion whatever, explained objects to which $2,000,000 of have a greater responsibility for know the mandarins) and one of fund was founded by himself and sums of money to teachers was the investment of money in build- ing up a productive industry."--- that bis theory of life, likewise, the income should be given an- the selection of dircotors, who see them said to me, "The greatest the United States Steel Corpora- good thing Wes to accomplish all the good uually, my purpose being in this to it thatthe administrative officers work of your Christ to the elevation, retired employes of the opf- Well," replied Mr. Carnegie, That choriolerises the spirit he ought to know. He is one of of modern capitalistic benevolence possible. Both men read carefully way to provide for the various maintained proper workingendi- tion of women and that is the poration have received in per-
admirably," said the witness, "If Bions $1,575,021, Mr. Carnegie my pensioners."
"Do you think there should be is not charity. It is investment. prepared statements Be answers to philanthropier, more or less per- tions for their employes.
greatest work of Christ." questions tho or mmission bad roanl to myself and related to the Would Share Profits. A bash fell upon the audience, testified. Last year the total da
fund governmental control of these The submitted to them, and then they places of my residence, to which "I believe the best way to help there was a moment of awed il bazeements from the
ment of educational, înstítutiona
the foundations an insidious, by ***I don't think the United infance, mentioning in partic views through questions put to
feller said, is to give him goot solemnly into tie faces of those were 2521 beneficiaries. them by Chairman Waleb.'
wages rather than have him be who heard him,
privileged to found," Mr. Car States government or the state alar the pension system of the Mr. Rockefeller appeared vory "I regard the right to amend come the object of charity.d After Mr. Carnegis had settled. feeble and leaned heavily on the or rescind the respective oharters "I would by only too happy himself in the witness chair and negie continued, "has always in- legislature would do anything arcegie Foundation. He pointed arm of a sergeant at arms as he of the several foundations which the witness said in answer to a prepared to read his formal state-terested me most deeply, perhaps that would not be agreeable, to also to the fact that Deotor Elk
as president of Harvard had apprenched the witness chair. inhers in the legislative bodies queation, to surrender my hold-ment; he was asked what bie busi through personal experience. Do you believe in publicity received gifts for the university Though younger he made detrik-which granted them as an entire inge in whole or in part if the nese war. ing contrast to Mr. Cinegie, Hely sufficient guarantee against workers could come into die "My business," he replied, "is could not rest until I had founded of the activities of these founda from Mr. Hookefeller
hero funde with a capital of $11- tione? Charles A. Lindbergh, repre wore a gray suit. He is much serious abase of the funds," he boards of directore and get the to do all the good in the world 790,000. The report of the annual That reminds me of t sentative in congress from taller than Mr. Carnegie sud.ap said. Furthermore, I have such profits. I would be very happy that I can,"ED
meeting held at Pittsburgh on preacher who posted a notice that assota, testifed Mr. Lindbergh peared in contrast extremely confidence in democracy, that I to think that the labourers werə His intement was, in part, as January 20 atowa swords given in his sermon he would try to gave his opinion that there should serious. He said he was retired believe it can better bo left to the my partners."
to forty heroes or their wives and answer the question, Why was be taken from banke "the e from business, and gave his legal people and their representatives to Mr. Rockefeller said he had" I never bought or sold shares families, with a total of 197 Lazarus a beggar? de clarive privilege of contr address at 4 West 54th street remedy evils when there is some thought of many plans by which on the exchange all my earnings awards since the fund began had all supposed that question money and credit which they His voico was weak as he replied tingible reason for believing they stook and ownership could be were from manufacturing. If it
by government authority, to questions. The roomful of are impending, rather than to transferred to the workers, were necessary" for me to return:
I
were allowed to amplify their have "been a contributor in the the labouring man," Mr. Rocke- once as Mr. Carnegie looked very amounted to $511,967.-There foundations ? " Chairman Walshe witness termed the endow
paat.
Confidence la Democacy,
"
followa
30 The hero fund which I was
because the idos came to me
operations.
asked.
me
was neitled long ago.
The res