COL
(113)
(112)
401
"hent. I must confess, however, that my recollection of the memoranda is very imperfect indeed, and that they never made the strong impression upon me which they ought to have done."
I really am afraid to say anything about my recollection of the contents of the memoranda. I recollect that their general nature has been correctly described. My recollection of Mr May's memoranda is sufficiently clear to enable me to state that I believe his description of them to be generally correct. I always thought that the documents referred to at the beginning of my evidence this day were sent off from this office the moment they were sealed up that day.
(Signed) H. TUDOR DAVIES.
CHAS. ST. GEO. CLEVERLY—being sworn states. I was present at the Legislative Council on the 10th and 14th May last. I remember the Attorney General referring to certain papers in the Ma-chow Wong case as tending to support his statement against Mr Caldwell. His reference was made on one or both of those days. I remember similar references being made by the Attorney General and Mr May before the Caldwell Commission on various days previous to the 17th June last, and think I remember on an early occasion Mr May prefaced his evidence with a request that the Commission would call for those books and papers and memoranda. After consulting with the Commission, I prepared a memorandum to that effect and sent it into the Colonial Secretary's room. Mr D'Almada came to me and said that they were not in their possession and that they were handed over to the Superintendency. He came back a second time and showed me the minutes of the Executive Council to that effect.
I remember, at the close of the day, the Attorney General coming up to my chair and speaking in a low tone to me, that Mr D'Almada had just told him that those documents must be in Mr Wade's hands, but that he, the Attorney General, knew from Mr Wade himself, before he left for the North, that he had done with them, and that the Attorney General thought that if it was pretended they were missing, it would be ground for the Commission to call Mr May to give secondary evidence of their contents.
I remember previous to the sitting on the 17th June, that I had a conversation with the Attorney General, and immediately afterwards, on the same day, I wrote a second memorandum to the Secretary. I am a clerk in the Colonial Secretary's office. I remember on several occasions before the Caldwell Commission, inquiring about the Chinese documents. The answer on one occasion (on the same day when Mr May was examined) was that they were burned by orders of the Acting Colonial Secretary.
JOZÉ D'ALMADA—examined on oath states. Mr May and yourself (Mr Anstey) were examined on the same day. I did hear both these witnesses refer (frequently) to the Ma-chow Wong papers and asked that they might be called for by the Commission. I remember also going into the Council room where the Caldwell Commission was sitting and being asked by the Chairman respecting certain papers in the Ma-chow Wong case. I replied to the chairman that the documents were not with me—were not to be found.
As I passed out, I remember telling the Attorney General that those papers were not to be found. I do not know whether I did tell Dr Bridges what the Attorney General said about the papers. I did go a second time to the Council room soon after. I then informed the chairman that the papers not to be found must have been delivered to Mr Wade, as appeared by the Council books.
I have searched the Records by direction of the chief clerk, Dr Bridges not having been there at the time. The Chief clerk is also Clerk of the Councils. I was led to believe that the papers had been sent to Mr Wade from an entry in the Council minutes. I did not tell the Chairman that any of the papers had been burnt for I never knew (at that time). I did not know it until after it became notorious.
I think there is a letter on record in our office from the Chief Magistrate's Office advising that the Ma-chow Wong papers had been sent to the Chinese Secretary's Office. This was either in September or October last year.
Deponent being asked whether he ever saw the Ma-chow Wong papers, answers that he never saw them.
(Signed) CHAS. ST. GEO. CLEVERLY.
CHARLES COLLINS—being sworn states. The Chinese documents were brought into my office by Mr Jarman on the 30th September last, between 11 and 12 o'clock A.M.
I know it was on that day because I wrote and despatched the letter with the books and papers to the Secretary of the Superintendent of trade. The date of the transaction was entered in the office despatch book. I assisted Mr Jarman to seal the baskets. There were two baskets, I think, which contained the documents. The documents were not loose but in packages and sealed with the Police seal. I then despatched them by the office coolie, Ayee, and an outside coolie, whose name I do not know. This was about 1 P.M. of the same day. They could not have been in my office more than from one to two hours altogether. I swear positively that they were not in the office for one night.
Being asked whether he ever saw Mr May's memo., he answers that he is not at liberty to disclose what took place in Executive Council. I now recollect seeing 2 baskets (casually) in the Chinese Secretary's Office which one of the Student Interpreters told me were the Ma-chow Wong's documents.
(Signed) C. COLLINS.
YING-LUNG-TIEN—Chinese Teacher.
He made some excuse for their non-production which I do not recollect. I remember, at the close of the day, the Attorney General came up to the chair, stood at Mr Cleverly's right hand, and referred to Mr José D'Almada's statement and said something to the effect that we (the Commission) might take secondary evidence of the contents of the memo. by calling Mr May.
I was present when the Attorney General in his evidence stated to the effect quoted by him from the printed minutes page 32. I recollect that on that day, and I believe as soon as the Attorney General's examination had closed, a letter which the chairman had shown me that morning was read by him from the chair. I believe it was from Mr Mongan. It stated that the papers had been burnt.
Up to that date, 17th June, neither in the debates in Legislative Council, nor in any communication ever made to me by any officer of the Government, nor in the proceedings of the commission or otherwise, had I the slightest idea that the Government were aware or wished to have it believed that the documents had been burnt. I was perfectly astonished when Mr Cleverly showed me Mr Mongan's note.
The witness reads the following paragraph from page 88 of his evidence of the printed minutes.—
"I recollect although I had quite forgotten it until after Mr Mongan went to Canton or after he returned, that shortly before this commission commenced sitting, it was intimated to him that the Ma-chow Wong documents which were transmitted to the Superintendency had been burned, and that the officers of the Superintendency knew nothing whatever of the memoranda."
(Signed) YING-LUNG-TIEN.
Remanded to Tuesday, 12th Oct., 1858.
W. H. MITCHELL
ELEVENTH HEARING.
Tuesday, 12th October, 1858.
Defendant's Witness,
AND. SCOTT DIXSON—examined on oath states.
By Mr Anstey.—I was examined before the Caldwell Commission on Friday, 28th May last. I have since read the printed minute of my evidence. I now confirm the same upon oath as far as it refers to Ma-chow Wong and the documents and the enquiry before the Council.
Before that enquiry, I was Editor as well as Proprietor of the Friend of China. I was sitting on the bench at mid-day when Mr Collins had reported to me that the papers had arrived, by which I understood just arrived. I went into the clerk's office and there saw Mr Jarman, one of the officers who had sent the papers up or brought them up.
I was not quite satisfied with the packing of the baskets and had the magistracy seal put on the things in my own presence. I see no reason why they should have been detained here. I am almost certain they were sealed within a quarter of an hour after they were brought here. From what I know of Mr Collins's great caution, I should judge that they were forwarded forthwith.
Think I sent for the papers to the Central Police Station, immediately on receiving the Colonial Secretary's letter requiring them.
"Mr May lent me his memo. for 2 or 3 days. As I found 'they had nothing immediately to do with the cases under 'investigation, which were already cumbered enough, I told 'Mr May that I thought he had better say nothing about 'them until some occasion should arise on which they 'would be clearly useful.
"I recollect also when the efforts for obtaining a pardon for Ma-chow Wong were going on, that Mr May again asked me if he should mention them to the Government. As by that time I had learnt that Mr May was supposed to be actuated by jealous and hostile feelings towards Mr Caldwell, and as also the Government were in possession of the originals from which the memoranda was taken, I told Mr May that I should certainly not volunteer their production to the Government."