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H.ET GOVERNOR: The matter ́ ́LEGISLATIVE
HONGKONG L
COUNCIL.
On clause 23, the ATTORNEY-GENERAL which the hon. member has raised has said: Representations have been made been brought forward on several on regarding this clause and I have drafted A meeting of the Hongkong Legislativo sions by the Chamber of Commerce, and an alterativo, clause which has been It reads as Council was held in the Council Chamber I have before me today another letter handed to hon. members yesterday. There were present:-
from them on the subject, to which I follows:
-It shall be lawful for any police HIS EXCELLENCY THE GOVERNOR (Sir an prepared to give further considera-
officer to take the Anger prints of:.. R. E. Srcans, K.C.M.G.).....
tion. But I should like to explain that
(a) any on who has been convicted HA EXCELLENCY TES GENERAL OFFICEat in the present instance what we are
of any offeneis; COMMANDING THE TROOPS (Major doing is not altering or amending the General Sir Joan FOWIRE, K.C.MIC, w, but consolidating it, with the view C.B., D.S.O.):
Hon. Sir CLAUD SEVERN, K.H.E., C.M.G.
(Colonial Secretary). Hon. Mr. J. H. Keur, K., C.B.E.
(Attorney-General).
Hon. Mr. McI. MESSAR. O.BE. (Colonial
Treasurer).
to its inclusion in the Consolidated! Ordinances, and the particular point raised can be dealt with separately by an amendment of the Ordinance, if we
can find a form of words to suit the
}
Hon, Mr. R. H. KOTEWALL: There and many other firms that employ such namew as "Taikoo" and "Ewo." To my mind they are not translations nor translitera tious, but they are Chinese names allopt- ed by these firms because of their speciał monaing: They are better known to the Chinese and are intended to he so used
amongst the Chinese for purposes - of- (b) my person who has been arrested usingas. Another point is that if you on a warrant issued under section exempt a firm which employs such namen 4 (4) of the Tieportation Ordinance, as "Ewo" and "Taikoo,” what about a 1017 and.
firm which is not as reliable as Jardines, (c) any other person upon the written
order of the Captain Superinten. using a name like that in order to escapo dent of Police or of a Deputy using the Chinese characters för limited The present clause in the Bill is much
Superintendent of Police.
company-yu kan bung 128.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL: This Ordi-
Hon. Mr. E. R. HALLIFAX, Q.B.E. (Seera) Parties... Wo can take that up next year. widee and gives the power to take fingernance is not an attempt to impose fresh-
tary for Chinese Afairs). Hon. "Mfr. E. A. Inving Director
"Education).
Hon. Mr. E. T. CAST (Director
Public Works),
Hon. Mr. H. E. POLLOCK, K.C.
Hon Mr. A. O. Laxd
Hon. Mr. Crow SHOP SON.
Hon. Mr. A. H. Lowz
Hon. Mr. R. H. KOTEWALL-
ABSENT.
Hon. Mr. P. 'H. HOLYOAK.
MINUTES.
of
At the same time, I have one or two prints of any person who may he in cus
the fact that members of the Chinese community have an objection-an objec tion which I confess I have never been able to understand-to having their finger prints taken unnecessarily, and I think the substituted clause will remove any reasonable objections,
4.
of remarks I should like to make The tady. The suggested alteration restricts bon, member says it is impossible to it to the three classes named in the draft prove that none of the officers or their
IE. The GOVERNOR: The objection to servants, or the crew, have been imply the original clause, as I understand, eated in these transactions. I am afraid that, in many cases, the impossibility arises from the fact that, the officers or their servants or the crew have been so implicated-in fact, it is extremely Mr. A. G.... FLETCALE, C.M.G., C.B. E. difficult to believe that any case arises in
(Clerk of Councils)
which some member of the crew has not been concerned, and I am afraid we have The clause as amended was approved, not received from the shipping companies and the Bill passed through the Con- of this Colony the support we have a
On the Council resuming the third The minutes of the last meeting were right to expect: that they have not wittee without farther amendment.
dealt sufficiently severely with members approved and signed.
of their crew when there has been a reading was then agreed to, and the Bill question of opium smuggling and a doubt The COLONIAL SECRETARY, by command members of the crew. To pat it quits FOREST OFFICERS POWER OF
has been thrown on the bona fides of the passed into law accordingly. T of HE. The Governor, laid on the table frankly, it is a fact well known to every- Financial Minutes Nos. 108 to 112 body that the compradores' departments additional Financial Minute of shipping firms have a great deal too much to do with this matter and that relating to the redistribution of un-n officer who is too strict in locking expended balances of Public Works for opium smuggling is afraid of getting Department votes, for the year 1893, and into trouble with the compradore and moved that they be referred to the Fin- With regard to the particular case of of not being supported by the employers.
The COLONIAL SECRETARY seconded, the ance, Committee for consideration. The Loong Sangs to which the hon. motion was carried and the Bill was read
The COLONIAL TREASURER seconded, member referred, the Magistrate made a second time. the motion was agreed to..
certain observations which, I think aro) The Bill passed through the Committee not warranted by the facts. What Mr. Wood said was that he was satisfied stage without amendment
and an
FINANCE.
1
and
14
The COLONIAL SECRETARY, by command of HE. The Governor, laid on the table the Report of the Finance Committes (No. 14) and moved that it be adopted.
The COLONIAL TREASURER reconded, and the motion was agreed to.
THE HOLIDAYS ORDINANCE. The ATTORNEY GENERAL moved the second reading of a Bill intituled An Ordinance to amend the Holidays. Ordi- Bance, 1012.
The COLONIAL SECRETARY seconded, and the motion was agreed to.
The Council then resolved itself into Committee to consider the Bill clause by clause. The Bill passed through the Committer stage without amendment, and on the Council resuming, the third read ing was carried, and the Bill passed into law decordingly.
LAW RELATING TO OPIUM.
*
The ATTORNEY:ĠENERAL moved the seconded reading of a Bill intituled An Ordinance to amend and consolidate the Law relating to Opium...
The COLONIAL SECRETARY seconded, and the motion was agreed to.
Council then went into Committee to consider the Bill clause by clause.
..
ARREST.
burdens on Companies, but to relieve them. The effect of the Act of 1921 gema to be that if Jardine, Matheson and Co, Ltd., put the word “Ewo" on a bale of merchandise they are breaking the law
unless they put the word for
limited "* after the word Ewo." This clause is an attempt to relieve them from the necessity of using those words on every occasion that they use the fancy name. times strict insistence on the use of the I do not think, Sir, that in these modern
word Limited alter the name of a company is of any great practical import auce, but it is the policy of the English cts and I think we ought to keep to it though not to extend it to the use of fancy, and colloquial names.
The Hon. Mr KOTEWALL: That being
the object I have no objection to the printed clause remaining, as it is. I du not think the name Ewo' can be classed as a translation..
HE The GOVERNOR: Your second point is a very difficult qne, Mr. Kotewall, because it any company is able to get
· The „ "Arronxty-GENERAL moved the round this clause by calling itself frome- second reading of the Bill intituled Anthing else it seems to me the clause be- Ordinance to confer certain powers of arrest on forest officers.
that the ship had taken every precau- į On the Council reading the third tion, but the evidence given in that case reading was taken and the measure pass- was not that every precaution had been
THE
COMPANIES ORDINANCES.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL moved the
comes a 4 d letter.
Hon. Mr. KOTEWALL: And the business community would be devoid of the pro- tection which the law seeks to give it. matter of fact, afford any protection? Does the Chinese community pay the slightest attention to the existence or otherwise of these characters?
H.E. The GoVERNOR: Does it, as a
Hon. Mr. KorEWALL: I take it the object of the law is to have it there, Bor it is plain to them.
E. The Govrkson: As my name.ap- pears on the Bill I suppose I must know what the object is.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL: Section 2 of the principal Ordinance requires a com pany to have its name painted or printed as the case may be on certain places or
which it gets cr registration. When that name is used they must use the word "Limited' with it. It is a survival of days when the system of joint limited company was not so well known, but it is only in those eases where they must print or paint up the full official name that they have to add the word" Limit ed." There is no obligation upon a com Pay to print its full official name on every hale of merchandise.
taken but that precautions would hara ed into law accordingly. been taken before the ship got to! Manila In that instance, the opiam, was! found in the tannel of the propelleri haft. I am not a sea-faring man, but
venture to submit that it is impossible second reading of the Bill intituled, An to examine a propeller shaft tunnel Ordinance to amend the Companies' | documents-that is the full official name while the ship is under way, and I Ordinance, 1911. think a matter which might have been
The COLONIAL SECRETARY seconded, enquired into was: Who gave instruc tions that the examination should notj
The Bill having been read a second be made until the ship was under weigh time, the Council went into Committee to at a time when discovery was practically consider the Bill clause by danse. unpossibla There was very grave, sas- On clause the Hon, MA H. E. Po Dicion in that case, and I think Mr. Lock said; i would suggest that the Wood's remarks were scarcely in accord words or translation be omitted in ance with the evidence which had been the sixth line. The learned Attorney received. As I have said, the matter General in his speech at the last meeting
HES The GOVERNOR suggested that it will receive consideration and the pre- of the Council referred to such names as sent cause contains no "alteration in the "Ewo" and "Taikoo as being, nick was necessary on letter headings.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL' read the ap- law, I suggest to the Council, therefore, names. He also referred in the Objects propriate section in which the words let that it be passed as it stands.
and Reasons to colloquial, and no-ter heading did not occur. He added: The clause
Approved without cial designations of a company. IBU The dangor saggested by Mr. Kotewall was the Committee stage without alteration. amendment and the Bill passed through gest. Sir, that the terms "Ewo" and is not serious in view of the fact that a
The Council resumed and the third
company must have its full official title on important documents. reading was taken. The Bill passed into law accordingly.
POLICE FORCE ORDINANCE. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL moved the second reading of a Bill intituled An Ordinance to amend the Police Force Ordinance, 1800.
notion was agreed to.
The COLONIAL SECRETARY, Meccaded, the
་་
Taikoo" are the only Chinese equiva lent known to Chinese unacquainted with English for the firms Jardine, Matheson and Co. and Butterfield and Swire, and therefore such words cannot properly be described as nicknames or colloquial or unofficial names. They, in fact, amount to translation of the names of those firms. To the ordinary Chinese hac- quainted with the English language Jar dine от Butterfield and Swire mean nothing: the only names they understand
ILE. The GovERSON: It seems to me any conveyance, at any hour of the that you remove one difficulty and make day or night, who acts in a suspicious a greater one." manner, or whom he may suspect of Hon. Mr. POLLOCK; To the ordinary haring committed, or of being about to Chinese Ewe" means Jardine, Mathe commit, or of intending to commit, auy Bon and Co. offence.
The Hon. Mr. KOTKWALL: But only im English-not Chinese. There are many firms which adopt what the learned At- torney-General calls" fancy names" outs show the English and the fancy name It does not have the words yuu hạn kang
added.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL: In answer to
that do not think in modern times this provision is of very much practical im
H.E. The GOVERNOR: I think we most of us have come to the same conclusion on that point. Do you suggest any amendment, Mr. Kotewall?
The Hon. Mr. KOTEWALL: No. Sir. The clause was then, approved, e It was agreed that the Ordinance should come into force on December 21st
Other clauses of the Bill were passed without amendment, and on the Council resuming the third reading was taken and the Bill passed into law accordingly.
the
- INTERPRETATION. ORDINANCE.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL moved second reading of the Bill intituled An Ordinance to amend the Interpretation Ordinance, 1011
The Bill having been read a second The COLONIAL SECRETARY Seconded. time, it was referred to Committee. It Dassel through the Committee stage without amendment and on the Council resuming, the third reading was carried. and the Bill passed into law accordingly.
On clause 21 (3), which provides that if any ship is proved to have been used for the conveyance of opium, the owners, agents and master shall be deemed to have contravened the provisions of the
The Ewo" and -“Taikoo.” portance. Ordinance unless it is proved, to the The Council went into Committee to quite agree that they are not translitera- satisfaction of the Magistrate that consider the Bill clause by clause, tions-obviously they cannot. he-but I every reasonable precaution has been On clauso 2, the ATTORNEY-GENERAL think they are translations in view of the taken to prevent the unlawful use of such said: Representations have been receiv fact that they are the only Chinese equi ship, and that none of the officers.or of ed in regard to this clause and I pro-valent which the Chinese would under their servants, ar of the crew of such pose taat for it be substituted the clause, stand. I think, Sir, it would be safer to ahip were implicated therein."
a draft of which was handed to kon. leave out the words or translation." The Hon. Mr. A. O. Laso said: Your members just before the commencement The ATTORNEY GENERAL: I admit that "Ewo." is not a translation for you can- Eseelloney, In section 3 I beg to suggest of the sitting of the Council. The new that the following words be omitted: suggested draft omits paragraph (a) and not translate the name Jardine Mathe And that none of the officers or of inserts in the last line, between the son and Company, Ltd. You might trans their servants or of the crew of such word commit" and the words any late a name like Armstrong: you might ship were implicated therein." I sub- offence," the words. "or of intending to translate it "strong in the arm," or you might translate Hongkong Development mit that their inclusion imposes an undua commit.”...." penalty on the shipowners. In a recent The CLEAK OFCorxcius read the Co., but "Ewo" is not a translation af Matheson and Company. If the. Jardinc case. wherein the Indo-China Sterm amended clause as follows:
or translation were omitted it Navigation Company were summoned and
22-It shall be lawful for any police would enable a company to translate its fined $1,000 for allowing their steamer,
officer to stop and search, and, if name into Chinese and leave out the word the Zanng Sung, to be used for the con- necessary, to arrest and detain for Limited," which is against the policy veyance and exportation of opium the further inquiries, any person whom he of the Companies Ordinance and of the Magistrate, after stating that he found
may find in any street of other public English Acts. the shipping company innocent of any place, or on board any vessel or in connivance and that they had adopted all reasonable precautions. went on to say: One purpose of the section would appear to be to penalise ship- owners in respect of the conduct of their employta. In effect, also, it provides
H.E. The GOVERNOR: I agree that such that the guilt of their employés is to be assumed until their innocence is
BE TAM GOVERNOn: The object of the equivalent may probably be a translation established In this case the defendants introduction of this clause is to avoid but if you cut out the words or transla
tion the Attorney-General points out have failed to prove innocence for certain any possibility of undue interference with that you incur a much greater difficulty. The COLONIAL SECRETARY seconded. Chinese members of the engine room the public by the undue exercise of the A title, such as the Hongkong and The motion was carried and the Bill staff of the ship." The Chamber of power of arrest and detention of any Whampoa Dock Company" can be trans was afterwards considered in Committee.. Commerce has made representations on person who may happen to be in the lated without any difficulty I suppose. Hon. M POLLOCK Baid: With reference several occasions to the Government in street between the hours of & p.m. and any company with the word "Hongkong to paragraph 4 of the schedule it seemn this connection without any effect, and nm. I have agreed, as far as I am can be translated. So long as this clause rather a strong measure to provide that it would appear to me that the effect concerned, to the substitution of the the exact practical object of which if any person is convicted of an offence of the Inw and the Magistrate's inter amended clause because I think it desir confess I have never quite understood against regulation 1 it shall be lawful for pretation of it is that if opium is found able that the Inw as it staaris should exists, you must provide for it. What is any magistrate to order that such person The on board a ship the shipowner, however provide for the normal state of affairs. the practical point-that a company does shall be expelled from the Colony. innocent and diligent, must be fined, for We may trust that when affairs are not employ these Chinese characters in power to order a person to be expelled it is obviously impossible for the owner normal it will he unnecessary to assume its name is liable to certain per
penalties? 16 usually exercised by the Governor in Council. In sub-section 2 there is & tém -Hon. Mr. POLLOCK: Yes. to prove that not a single one of his that everybody who is walking in a crew was even slightly implicated. Fines public street between the hours of p.m. H.B. The GOVERNOR But in view of ference made to the Governor-in Council, imposed in these circumstances cannot and dam was there for an unlawful the opinion of the learned Attorney because he has to say by what ship the have any preventative effect at all. The purpose. At the same time I should like General that these names are not a trans-person proposed to be expelled is to de shipowner can do no more, and the fines to say that in normal times we can take literation or translation there is no dan part from the Colony, Would it not be better to make the Governor in Council do not trouble the crew. Represents the power to arrest and detain in such ger of their incurring litigation. tions in a similar connection were made circumstances under the law passed, last The Hon. Mr. AO, LANG This Ordi- the authority throughout I do not know to the Chinese Maritime Customs some year and the regulations for use in an nance was submitted to the Chamber of where there is any precedent for giving two or three years ago and they recognmergency. If the circumstances make it Commerce sub-committee and they saw this power to the Magistrate. nised the undue penalties to which ship desirable 1 ahall have no hesitation in no objection to it owhers were subjected by a clanss of recommending the Council to adopt those that nature and they agreed to waive powers. The clause as altered appears it submit, Sir, that these words to me to be sufficient for normal times: might be omitted from the Ordinance.. The amended clause' was approved.
THE PASSPORTS ORDINANCE. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL moved. the Hecond reading of the Bill intituled An Ordinance to regulate the admission of persons into the Colony of Hongkong.
HE. The GOVERNOR: The point is that II.E. The GOVERNOU: By passing the the man ought not to he in the Colony clause as it standa I think we shall save at all. Therefore, from a constitutional ourselves from more difficulties than we point of view you regard him as non-
existent. shall incur by altering it.