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HONGKONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.
CONSCRIPTION BILL PASSED.
UNOFFICIAL MEMBERS FORCE A DIVISION ON THE THIRD READING.
QUESTION OF BRITISH TRADE INTERESTS IN THE FAR EAST,
A meeting of the Hengkong Legislative Council was held yesterday afternoon at
the Council Chambers.
The following were present:- HIB EXCELLENUY THE GOVERNOR, SIR FRANCIS HENRY MAY, K.C.M.G.
HIS EXCELLENCY MAJOR-GENERAL F. VENTRIS (General Officer Commanding Troops in China).
Hon. Mr. CLAUD SEVERN, C.M.G (Colonial Secretary).
Hon. Mr. J. H K (Attorney General).
Hon. Mr. A. M. Trogon (Colonial
Treasurer).
Hon. Mr. E. R. HALIFAX (Bocretary for Chinese Affairs).
C.M.G.
Hon Mr. H. E. POLLOCK, K.O.
Hon. Mr. E. BHELLIM.
Hon Mr. D. LANDALE..
Hon. Mr. Lau CHU PAK Hon Mr. P, H. HOLTOAK. Hon. Mr. Ho Fook. Mr. A. G. M. FLETCHER (Clerk of Councils).
There were also present in the Council Chamber eight or ton members of the public, including Mr. A. H. Harris, Mr. FC Jenkin, Mr. Eldon Potter and Mr. Crow
PAPER.
The COLONIAL SECRETARY, by command of H.E. the Governor, laid upon the table the report of the Superintendent of Imports and Exports for the year 1917.
H.E. THE GOVERNOR-As regards the continue reading from where my hon. amendment proposed by the hon. member friend, who represents the Chamber of I had hoped that we had finally got rid Commerce left off, the Attorney-General, of this clause. It has been the subject of at the last meeting of the Council, made very long discussion.
use of the following expression
Hon. Mr. HoLYOAK-Perhaps I ought to Bay that we all thought we had got rid of it, but we were so deeply concerned by the words which tell from the hon. and learned Attorney-General in his com ments on the Bill, and which we took to be more or less inspired by the Govern- Hon. Mr. HOLYOAK-I beg leave to disent, and as a direction for the Tribunal, cuss the three resolutions sent in by the that we felt it was essential to take Chamber of Commerco
exception to them. The words referred to are these
CHAMBER OF COMMERCE RESOLUTION3.
HE. THE GOVERNOR-I do not wish to avoid discussion, but under the rules of this Council, it is not in order.
Hon. Mr. HoLYOAK-I know it in not in order without the sanction of the Council, but I thought, having regurd to the importance of the matter, the privilege might be granted.
B.E. THE GOVERNOR-I have sent the speaking as
reply to the Chamber of Commerce it is
to the effect
The larger businesses may have to he curtailed. New enterprises, however promising, may have to be restricted, and in the case of one-man businesses and occupations it may be that some of them will have to be closed altogether Well, Sir, nothing of that, and nothing
for the time being.”
resembling it, appeared in the speech of the Attorney-General when this Bill first came before this Council, and I think an words were used was the first intimation the last meeting of the Council when these received that the Government intended to throw overboard the idea of Business as usual and intended to force to the extremest limit the question of man-power called the contributory help to the war in disregard of what the Prime Minister by means of silver ballets-in view of this new attitude taken up by the Govern
should be brought before the Secretary from the hon, unofficial member who last. ment, I quito agree with what has fallen on this matter, it of State again, because I think, Sir, a misapprehension on the
Hon. Mr. HOLYOAK-I have that reply. is well aware but your Excellency my hon, friend pointed out, there has been
cover single men.
BOTH genuinly it was not contem.
mintter.
two attitudes of mind-one which would Thursday, was adding the
not have asked for conscription to bo Hon Mr. Lau CHU PAR-on should applied to this Colony at all.
inerea ritish trade in the face of in China controlled from Hongkong.
Essential interests mean something very different from the maintenance of the present state of affairs. The old standard of Business as usual which was swept away in England in the early days of the war is now to be abandoned here Perhaps it has already been abandoned to a certain extent, but it now has to be abandened to a much more stringent extent." patriotin, Quair theron to any Now, Sir, I do not think we yield in representa man here, certainly not to any member of the Government,
from the commence Hon. Mr. W. CHATHAM,
..H.E. THE GOVERNOR-All I can add 10
ment of the discussion which led to this (Director of Public Works).
that reply is that the Government will mont that essential commercial interests when it suggested a measure of this kind,
Bill
a pledge was given by the Govern plated by the Chamber of Commerce, Hen, Mr. Mol. MESSER (Captain deal sympathetically with the whole should be protected, and we view this that it should be carried to the extent Superintendent of Police).
question of separation allowances and, as pronunciation of the learned Attorney. that apparently now the Government at present advised, it is proposed, with alarm, the more so because it sounds like ment, because I can hardly believe that General's. with considerable feelings of intends to carry it. I say the Govern- the sanction of the Secretary of State, to a direction to the Tribunal. There are the Attorney-General, addressing us last deal with the question of injuries wholly send homo every man possible and all He was
us on, his own. or partly incapacitating a raan under a the man-power available at the cost of the Government, which policy, I under
I think,
policy of pension system, that means to say we all commercial interests, and the other stand from my two colleagues, has come will insure him not only against death interests which, by their large contribu surprise, as something which they did not which would maintain those commercial upon the Chamber of Commerce as a but against injury. The whole thing is tions in the shape of excess profits year expect. very complicated and we wish to act While we do not want to keep one man by year are helping to carry on the war fairly as far as we are permitted, and who can be spared, we must protest any proposat we mako we will discuss against the doctrine of obtaining nen at thoroughly with unofficial members. economically unsound in the interests of General on the first reading. What wa H.E. THE GOVERNOR The Government. any cost, because we think that is abides by the remarks of the Attorney- Hon. Mr. HOLTOAK-It is not a quos reiterated the view that labour trained interests of the Colony, and these essential
the nati
nation. We have again and again are concerned with is the essential tion of married men, but of the depen and specialised here should be used for interests include trade, and include trade dant on bachelors, scheme we propose to introduce would less competitive, nations, and it must not be lost sight of that men am wanted,
H.E. THE GOVERNOR-The pension
aggressive opposition and Now the learned Attorney-General on the competition from friendly, but neverthe second reading emphasised that it mist have an adverse effect on the trade of the and I do not suppose anyone denies that, Colony if it is to be denuded of the hends Mr. Lloyd George, in a recent speech, of departments without whom no great said himself that men were so badly business can be run. We feel strongly, wanted that if a certain amount of trade small businesses which are British, some me to put in the words also, that it is essential to protect the had to go it would have to go. You ask of which may have been recently catab in the Far East," I say I cannot put in British trade lished, though leathers are of ancient growth those words because they are mach too
perhaps not large, and the wide. removal of any man from a small busi Moreover, I suppose you are as welt They might mean anything. Broly to be very adverse to aware as I am that they are calling up British Interests in the long run, men in China itself who are employed should not have mentioned this if the in British trade in and with China. If hon. and learned Attorney-General had you wanted to deal with this question in not laid such stress on the fact that the days have changed and that the spirit of Hongkong and China, you would have to comprehensive manner. ineluding. the appen) is now not to maintain our power. Whilst that is true at Home it trade and in the application of this Act economic strength, but to obtain nian We are only concerned here with our own have one commission for the two places.
you take from this place is highly trained it is obvious that hundreds well, I don't must also be remembered that and represents specialised labour of know about hundreds, but I will say some--that some are not essential to the to replace, We, therefore, want an assurance before the Bill passes--and with-side of the trade. What the Attorney- out which assurance we cannot see our General said was if there was a question way to pass it-that the really essential as to what is essential trade, the touch- economic interests of the Colony and of stone-that I believe was the word he our vast distributing trade with China, used was as to its Imperial use or contributions year by year to the long discussion, these words essential taxes flow, enabling us to pay the large comment to make. We adopted, after a from which a goodly portion of our utility. That seems to no a very fair Imperial coffers which wo have done interests of the Colony because the since the
the war began, and the excess profit wide and elastie. I do not think myself Laxes which have been paid by many when the Tribunal and the Council of Ap firms year by year at Home, shall be pral get to work any really serious diffi puinzained. sound this note of warn culty will occur in the interpretation of speceh last Thursday seemed to lay great I think the Attorney-General, when ha ing as the Attorney-General in his the term essential interests of the Colony. stress on the question and appeared to made his second specch, only wanted to take the view then that it was no longer emphasise the fact that we could not con- a case of protecting trade as opposed to men power and that men must be obtained at all cost. It is distasteful to me to argue on these lines and I admit that it sounds unpatriotic, but from soul and from my deepest convictions the interests of our Empire is to main. am convinced that the soundest policy in
FINANCE
The COLONIAL SECRETARY, by command of H.E. the Governor, laid upon the table the report of the proceedings of the Finance Committee No. 4, and moved that it be adopted
The COLONIAL TREASURER seconded, and this was agreed to.
QUESTIONS BY MR. FOLLOCK, The Hon. Mr. POLLOCK asked the following questions:---
1. Will men, who are eligible for sor vice under the General Military Service Urdinance, and who are either,
(a) Members of the Belchers.... 6-inch
Hon. Mr. HOLYOAK I am thinking of the allowances to a mother or sister re- aising in the Colony, which ought to cone under the separation allowances as in the case of married men. The respon
sabilities are the same.
H.E. THE GOVERNOR-I cannot go fur ther than to say that we will den sympathetically with the representations
made.
Hon. Mr. POLLOCK-Also, there is the a widow and children. There will have case mentioned since the last meeting of to be some provision made in the case of the children, teen
every man
a
section who have been through spesial H.E. TAS GOVERNOR Yes, you night economic value which it will take years trade of the Colony or to the Imperial
training there and have passed in gur nery tests or
() Men of the Engineer Section who have passed in the required tests,
the opportunity of proceeding to England and of there joining up with
multiply these cases ad infinitum. It is
complicated question.
Hon. Mr. POLLOCK All I want is an nssurance that these cases will be con- Bidered by the Government with a view to modifying hardship.
some unit in which their training here will be of use to thern and to the Empire that every case that is brought before us H.E. THE GOVERNOR I think I may say 2 Will man who joined any the various branches of the Volunteer Forces we will consider fairly and sympatheti of this Colony either before the War or cally.
3. As
Government regards
Civil Ser
THE CONSCRIPTION BILL
amendments.
This was agreed to.⠀⠀⠀
within 3 months after its commencement, and have not been home for over 2 years, Council then went into Committed to be given the option of proceeding to Eng-consider further the Conscription Bill. land to join up?
The ATTORNEY GENERAL moved that van Will not those Civil Servants whomitted for the purpose of making certain clause 2 and 11 of the Bill be re-com- have left for home, under the express undertaking of the Government of this Colony to the effect that their Military pay shall he made up to their full Civil pay, be given the benefit of that under taking and not be compelled to come in, against their will and contrary to the under the new scheme for separation
(21) Will all Qivil Servants who have gone home to fight, other than those fall ing under the above head (4), and, if not, what classes of such Civil Servants, be allowed to enjoy the privileges under the new scheme?
In Clause & the definition uf “Com. petent Military Authority" was omitted. The ATTORNEY GENERAL proposed that
my
sider the mere maintenance of trade. It is perfectly trus that some large busi- nesses will perhaps have to shed some of their staffs and that other businesses which now employ several men might he Hon. Mr. HOLYOK It is extremely carried on by a lesser number
depleted.
vaid undertakwances, insurance, etc. the following should be substituted for tain our trado, that we may continue our doubtful now the staffy have been s
(1) Will the Government, in the como of those who have left, or may leave the Colony on War Service, take steps for the purposes of insuring that their rights under the Widows and Orphans Pension Ordinances or regulations are not lost or prejudiced by any omission to keep up the periodical payments to the Fund T
The Hon. COLONIAL, SECRETARY Toplied as follows
1. This is a question for the Military Authorities to decide. This Government is not prepared to make
maso representations on the subject proposed to give
It is not proposed to give anch option, except in the case of men who applied to the Military Service Commie sion prior to the 20th May, 2018.
3) The nuswer is in the affirmative.
clause 11-
(1) The said force shall be called the General Military Service Force of Hongkong
*** (2.)—All the provisions of the Army
Act, and of all orders and
contributions Imperial War Funds, both here and at home.
JIE THE GOVERNOR-What are the precise words you wish added ed
Hon Mr. HoLYOAKAnd of British Hon Mr. LANDALE-I
HE. THE GOVERNOR We have to me. what we can get. I abide by what was first reading that essential means the stated by the Attorney-General on the essential trade of the Colony. There are
for the time being in force therous trade in the Far East"ded this some other essential things and we also
and
have more men here than are necessary, firm was called up it could say "Yes, I but they have taken men from Shanghai and I want to fill up my office there."
and of all other Acts for the time being amendment, and I would like to explain recognise that we must take into con- amending the Army Act, shall apply to my reasons for doing so. When the sideration the trade controlled from the General Military Service Force of Chamber of Commerce suggested this Hongkong. But if the words British Hongkong, and to all persons belonging monsure they did so for two reasons that trade in the Far-Fant were added, it to the force, whether within or without as many men as could be spared to go might result in this, that when a certain the limits of the Colony, and whether and fight should auch persons aball have been transferred necessary to retain here a certain num
go, and that as it was or attached to some other corps, or not. ber of men, those men should be satisfied ** (3.) For the purposes of the Army that they were doing their duty Act, and
of the said orders and regula protected from the imputations being made Army Art, and of this by dinding the against them. The Attorney General
Ordinance, every seems to have failed to realise this person, belonging to the force shall be object of the Chamber of Commerce, mad deemed to have been duly
enlisted in
I um not quite sure whether His
the Govern Majesty's regular forces for generalment understands it, or have been misled service with the colours the of the war Colours for
period on the point. There is no doubt that the Chamber of Commerce intended those In doing so, he
he said:-The reason is
exempt under the Bill.
affairs.uld be a ridiculous state of
Hon. Mr, HeLYOAK-I do not think any frm of standing has one man whom it could afford to transfer to Shanghai, Hankow or elsewhere.
The ATTORNEY GENERAL Sir, I wish to that the policy of the Government is that
All Civil Servants who have gone that it is thought this new clause will required for trade in the Far East to be refer to only three points. It is not true
the
be
HE
men should be obtained at any cost, he eary for the essential interests of the canse the Bill recognises that men neces Colony must be retained. It is also not true that the days for tho protection of
have changed. The need for men is great for the protection of the essential trade
POSTAGE STAMPS, VIEW POST-CARDS; Mr. and Mrs. J. Besnard, Mr. P. H. Secretary of State, of coming under and Regulations made under the Aruy If it does not, then the matter ought to trade are passed, for the Bill provides
No 10, WraDhan Braner,
Dealers in
FLOWER SEEDS, TOYS, de,
New Supply of
SEEDS.
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WAI KER.
FLAG & SAILMAKER, No. 128, Den Voux Road Central, Top Floor,
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1887
spared
interests of the Colony. But the days
home
to fight fall under Head (1) Civil mors in accordance with the section of Servants now in the Colony who volun the Army Act on which this legislation THE GOVERNOR Why did they not teered their services prior to the 30th a certain extent depends, and the new
Hon. Mr. LANDALE-I think they did Mr. U. Adler, Miss I Adous, Miss May, 1916, will be treated in the same clause drals with other acts amending the quite clearly. If the local Government C. Braga, Miss J. Becker, Mr. R. Bell, with the option, it approved by
Bigner as Civil Servants under Head (4) Army Act and also refers to the Orders agree with this it ought to be in the Bill. Bouffer, Mr. Max Basker, Mr. and Mrs. new scheme, if they prefer it. The chus the words, which shall we stand. 1 do not think that as a result der tire che clause, was agreed to be referred back to the Secretary of State W. J. Carrell, Mr. B. Carces Y. Costa (1) In the case of the officers men- and daughter, Mr. Jose V. Cajucon, Mrs. tioned, subscriptions to the Widows and contain a substantial J. Galloway and Mra und Miss D. Hellin, Orphans Pensions Fund are and will be majority," were inserted after the word tion to the
corquicrcial of this Bill there will be any large Mr. W. J. Hollier, Mr. J. Hatfield, Mr. deducted from the pay due to such Tribunal in sub-section 1, and the words majority of those who can us tree to maintain trade as it was maintained
addi
and urgent, and it is no longer possible and Mrs. HT Jackman, Mrs. Wm. C. officers,
can be Jack, Mr. and Mrs. J. McLean Lachlan,
substantial commercial Mr. G. Ludin, Mrs. R. G. McLeod. Mr. third part of the answer to question were inserted after the word "perman pod Earned Attorney General at the last very strong view of the Chamber of Com-
Hon. Mr. POLLOCK-Arising out of
a year, or two or three ago. ong since joined the army, could like to Hon. Mr. HOLYCAK nuspren this of the majority shall always be maintained ” G. A. Malcolm, Miss E. Merritt, Mr. J. No. 3 I know that in the cases of those
point out that the remarks of the hon. acadment because it represents the Miralles, Mr. and Mrs. A. Michon, Mr.
"in sub-section 2. ently
Hon. Mr. HOLYDAFI beg to move but I was rather referring to recommitment of Clause and propose deal farther than his remarks at the first from Shanghai, or Hankow or Canton. ove the mecting of this Council went a very great merce. You cannot seperate Hongkong Falk Mude, Mr. C. W. Pilling, Mr. N. the fact that there might be cases of as an amendment to subsection the meeting of this Council on the Bill At We are interwoven, an incorporated Peri, Mr. C. FH. Pantlin, Mrs. M. people who were not receiving pay and addition of the words and of British the first meeting of this Council on this body, continually corresponding, and fa Stevens, Mrs., M. A. Tow, Mr. C. Thern yet might have to contribute. I do not trade in the Far East. Exemption Bill we understood that the essential many onses the head of the business is stan, Mr. R. E. Thompson, Mr. H. P.
know whether that is so.
would then be allowed on the ground trade interests of this Colony were to be here. Therefore you cannot separato White, Mr. J. P. Goelho, Miss M, Goelho, cases,
H.E. TER GOVERNOR There are no such that it is expedient in Imperial intereats, preserved, and not only that but the trade Mr A Lontao, Mr, E. Pabblo, Mr. N.
Patents or in the essential interests of the Colony interests controlled from this Colony ably bound up with Hongkong, nad to British trade in Chine, as it is insepar- Ada Roza
Hon. Mr. POLLOCK Then there, will be and of British trade in the Far East The Attorney General went much further ignore that would be fatal to British no difficulty.
Hon, Mr. LANDALE seconded.
at the last meeting of this Council. To interests.
A. S. Mosca, Mr. P. Martines, Mr. 8.ving pay the contributions will let