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f
TY
446
R. M. Martin, Esq., examined.
18 May 1847.
[10]
This produced irritation on the part of the merchants, who, smarting under their losses, felt more irritable at every transaction; and thus there has been produced an unfortunate state of feeling between the community and the Governor.
3993. But supposing this revenue is required to be raised, you are not aware of any other manner in which it can be accomplished with satisfaction to the colony?—It is impossible to raise a revenue from such a place. The endeavour to squeeze as much as possible out of a poor struggling settlement necessarily causes irritation. There is not a respectable Chinese inhabitant in the island, and never has been. A person engaged in the opium trade, named Chinam, built a hong there, and shortly after quitted the place; but no respectable Chinaman will live at Hong Kong.
3994. What you would recommend, would be to abandon the design of raising the present revenue at Hong Kong?—I would not attempt to raise any revenue beyond a moderate amount of land rent, and give security to life and property.
3995. The registration system has been stated to be very objectionable; do you concur in that opinion?—I objected to the registration system in the first place, as regards Europeans; I did not think they ought to be placed like ticket-of-leave men at New South Wales. I objected to it secondly, as levying a tax upon the Chinese. And I particularly objected to the most obnoxious proposition of branding them upon the cheeks.
3996. And which has been abandoned?—Yes. But the registration system has been ineffective, even with those modifications.
3997. And therefore you recommend the entire abandonment of it?—Yes.
3998. And you think that could be done consistently with the security of persons and property in the island?—There has been little security, and there is still less at present. The very last mail shows that individuals cannot walk outside the town unarmed.
3999. Would you suggest any remedy for that evil?—I would give the Chinese shopkeepers there somewhat the management of their own people. There is an excellent municipal local system in every town in China, and I would endeavour to make the Chinese in Hong Kong supervisors of their own people, and give them some little rank of office, in order that they may exercise a surveillance over their own people.
4000. You think an effective police may be constituted upon that principle so as to control the evil-disposed population, and at the same time not to discourage the respectable population?—Yes; I would leave it as much as possible in the hands of the Chinese themselves. At present the police are composed of Europeans and Lascars; the gentleman at the head of the police is an efficient officer from London, Mr. May; and though I have heard observations made respecting the police squeezing the inhabitants, my impression is that that gentleman is a most trustworthy character, and would be the last to sanction such a proceeding; but I would have some Chinese police.
4001. You do not think it necessary to have any registration for persons visiting the island?—It is impossible, from the contiguity of the island to the mainland; it would be like an attempt as between one side of the Thames and the other, with boats going constantly backwards and forwards.
4002. Viscount Jocelyn.] Do you know anything of the village administration in China?—It is maintained by a system of head-men. Their municipal system appears to be almost perfect, and to be one of the means by which that vast empire is kept together.
4003. It is very similar to the village system in India?—Yes.
4004. Do you think you could get respectable Chinamen to take the office of head-men in the villages?—There are shopkeepers and inhabitants of that kind in Hong Kong to whom I would entrust the power. I would constitute them a petty bench. I think such an arrangement would be popular, by showing a disposition to grant the Chinese power, and to make them respect themselves.
I beg to add, that it is much to be regretted that we have not retained possession of Chusan, and if any negotiation were opened with the Government of China, it would be very desirable to retain possession of that settlement, one of the most advantageously situated islands which I have seen in that part of the world. If we had the power of placing an island in any part of the globe, which for political and commercial objects would be an eligible position for England, we could not place it in a spot equal to that of Chusan.
18 May 1847.
4005. Sir G. Staunton.] But you do not consider, that under the provisions of the treaty, it would be possible to retain it?—Quite so. Lord Aberdeen informed me, that Chusan should not be evacuated till Canton was opened; but nevertheless Chusan has been evacuated, but Canton has not been opened.
4006. Viscount Jocelyn.] Do you believe that for commerce it would have been important to have kept the island of Chusan?—Probably not as regards the Yang-tse-kiang; but with regard to other places, Japan, Corea, Mantchouria, all the northern districts of China, and Formosa.
4007. Do you remember whether, after Shang-hai was opened, the trade of Chusan did not nearly cease?—That was because no vessel was allowed to go to Chusan; it was not within the terms of the treaty. A vessel could not come from one of the other ports in China to Chusan.
4008. Before Chusan was given up, immediately that Shang-hai was opened, what was the effect upon the trade at Chusan?—The trade at Chusan was drawn off to Shang-hai. The reason that there was none at Chusan was that Chusan was not permitted to be included in the trade which we were then carrying on. It was held merely as a guarantee.
4009. Mr. Harcourt.] We have been told by witnesses that it would have required a considerable employment of troops to have retained possession of Chusan. Do you agree in that?—Not at all; the very reverse. First with regard to the police. The police did not cost 100 dollars a month. There was not a homicide in the island while we possessed it; and the value of all the property stolen did not exceed that stolen in a single night at Hong Kong. Secondly, with regard to troops, it is more easily defended than Hong Kong; and the inhabitants being ordinarily of the agricultural character, required less means of keeping them in order. There is a fort called Joss House Hill, which, with a few troops, would give complete protection; whereas, with regard to Hong Kong, we never could defend it: half the harbour does not belong to us, and no garrison we could keep there could defend it. At Chusan I believe a frigate and a single regiment would be a sufficient protection.
4010. Mr. Ewart.] Do you think that while access is allowed to the towns on the main land, it is likely that an island at some distance would become a depôt of commerce?—I spoke of its being a depôt from other places; but with regard to our access to places on the main land, it is as if a Chinese merchant were allowed to come to Gravesend, instead of London; to Pill, instead of Bristol; to Greenock, instead of Glasgow; we are only at the very outskirts of the Empire, not in the commercial cities.
4011. With what commercial cities do you think we should open further communication?—Soochoo, of which Shang-hai is the port; Nankin, Tching-kiang foo, Tientzin, Kiang-sing, and Tchang-foo, of which Amoy is the port, and the cities above Canton. There are two large cities on the river above Canton to which we should have access.
APPENDIX