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HON. MR. POLLOCK'S CRITICISMS.
A meeting of the Hongkong Legislative Comeil was held yesterday-at Conncil Cheuksen.
The following were present:--
#18 EXCELLENCY THE GOVERNOR, SIR FRANCIS HENRY MAY, R.C.M.G.
His EXUELLENCY. MAJOR-GENERALF. VENTRIS (General Officer Coromanding Troops in China).
Hon. Mr. CLAUD SEVERN, C.M.G. (Colonial Secretary).
MESSER (Captain Hon. Mr. McI. Superintendent of Police and Colonial
General)
would also submit that the main object,
Hon. Mr. W. CHATHAM, C.M.G. (Direc-apparently, which is aimed at by the tor of Public Works).
Hon. Mr. Wer Yux, O.M.G.
Hon. Mr. Lau CHU PAK.
Hon. Mr. HE. POLLOCK, K.C Hon. Mr. R. G. SHEWAN,
Hon. Mr. C. E. ANTON.
Hon. Mr. S. 'H. DODWELL
Councils).
FINANCIAL.
The COLONIAL SECRETARY, by command of H.E. the Governor, laid on the table, Financial Minutes Nos. 39 to 49, and moved that they be referred to the Fin- ance Committer.
The COLONIAL TREASURER seconded, and this was agreed to..
FINANCE MINUTES.
The COLONIAL SECRETARY, by command of H.E. the Governor, laid on the table report of the proceedings of the Finance Committee. No 8, and moved that it
adopted.
and
any
No
But the point, Sir, in that enactment is their employers, as the case might be, and. this, that the Army Act shall only apply who are far more useful as civilians cara- to officers and volunteers who are doing ing what the Prime Minister would call actual military service, or who are under-silver bullets," to be contributed to the drill exercise, or instruction with war loan, than they would be in being His Majesty's regular forces, or any pare employed on garrison or guard duty. thereof And under
such provisions a notice that your Excellency on page 55 that, Sir, I think there would be no fear of Hansard reports for the year, on the that the ordinary civil rights of the first reading of this Bill, on August 2nd subject would be likely to be interfered made use of the following words: In with But, Sir, when we come to the the correspondence with the Secretary of clause of this present Bill we find that State which preceded the appointment Hon. Mr. POLLOCK Sir I desire the provisions of the Army Act are to
recommended, after _the_co_alate in the first place that I am not apply for the indefinite period I have of the Commission,
personally satisfied that any sufficient mened, and there is no doubt, Sir, consultation with His Excellency the that considerable apprehension exists in General Officer Commanding, under date case has been made out for passing this Colony lest under the shadow of the of the 22nd January, 1917, that compul
Army Act some derogation may take sory service for local defence should be compulsory service hill at all. It will be place of the natural civil rights of the imposed, that a wider use of the local within the recollection of all members of citizens of this Colony. Accordingly, foree should be made, and that a further this Council that only a few weeks ago Sir, when the time comes in Committee, reduction in the regular garrison should I propos: to move an amendment, which follow to a muint at which every member we were congratulated by the Right Hon. I think will probably be numerically of the existing Volunteer Force must be the Secretary of State for the Colonics Clause 12 of the Bill, to the effect that
considered indispensable for the defence nothing contained in this Ordinance, or of the Colony. Now, Sir, speaking with upon the fact that voluntary service in in any regulation to be made thereunder the utmost respect, I must confess that I this Colony had led to such good results, or in the Army Act or in the King's regard that as the wrong ideal to aim at. And, in view of that, Bir, and in view Regulations, shall be deemed to take As is well known, the offices of this Colony away, or shall take away, the ordinary are working, most of them, with consider of the fact that undoubtedly the civil civil rights of the members of the Hong- ably reduced staffs, and I would also Treasurer).
residents of this Colony have come for- kong Defence Corps, in regards to Hon. Mr. J. H. Keup (Attorney-ward very willingly and freely offered any of the following matters, namely: point out that in many of these alices, the 1-Right to the writ of Habeus Cor years, and the war does not appear to employer have been out here for many their services, it seems to me that á com
2. Right of freedom to attend public any of us to be likely to come to an end Hon Mr. E. R. HALLIFAX (Secretary pulsery measure is quite unnecessary. I
3-Right of freely criticising devern that in the fourth year of this war it is
meetings.
for some time yet. Therefore, I suggest, for Chinese Affairs).
ment measures vither by speech certainly not the time for making wider by writing to the papers. regulations attached to this Rill, namely, 4-Right of generally or separately use of the local forocs in the sense men- petitioning for redress of
tioned by your Excellency, of making it. the improvement of the organisation of
grievance.
possible for a further reduction of the the Volunteers and the Volunteer Reserves It seems to me that it is very necesgarrison. I am quite convinced that in forees, could equally have been effected sary that such a provision should be this reorganisation which is proposed,
insorted in this Bill, seeing that it that the present Volunteers and Reserves without the necessity of any compulsory is proposal to place us under the will co-operate loyally so far as they can. measure. And with regard to the fasion Army Ast, compulsorily, for an indefinite but, Sir, it must be remembered that which is sought to be brought about by period, and seeing also that under Clause there are limits to human endurance, and 3 of the Bill there is an indefinite power that it is practically physically impossible Mr. A. G. M. FLETCHER (Clerk of this Bill, of the Volunteers and Volun vested in the Governor in Council to for ons and the same man to be soldiering teers Reserves, it would have been quite make regulations for the constitution, by night and to perform his civilian easy to have brought that about by a management, training, service and dis duties by day. If it were possible, Sir
cipline of the Hongkong Defence Corps. no doubt they would like to accomplish simple measure, anch as was passed in the I think that it ought to appear clearly it, but my point is that it is absolutely. sister Colony of the Straits Settlements in this Bill that the civil rights of the impossible, however willing anybody
However, whilst ex-
civilian subjects of this Colony are to might be. 1 know these Volunteers and in the year 1918.
remain unaffected by it. I now come, Sir, Reserves are quite willing, and have come pressing these views, Sir, I think, per to consider Clause 8 of the Bill, Power forward splendidly, but they cannol, per- hape, that under all the circumstances, I to make regulations." I must confess, form the impossible. It seems to me that life is had better now pass on to the considera- Sir, and I say it with all respect, that their main sphere and object
I was very much disappointed to hear to accomplish, efficiently, their civilian tion of the various details in the Bill at the last mooting of the Council what duties, and to carry on the trade here, and they are so important, Sir, that your Excellency said with regard to re- to produce silver bullets either for them- think I had better address myself to them gulations being laid before the Legislative selves or for their employers if they are now, apon the motion for the second Council and approved by it. As I then employed in offices or businesses.
pointed out, these regulations are regula doubt, Sir, that way, they are doing reading of the Bill. The first point, Sir, tions which affect a large and important their best in the interests of the Empire hearises in Clause 2. Liability to military number of the civilian residents of this with regard to the successful prosecution Service" Under this clapise it will be Colony, and it occurred to me to suggest of this great war. Of course, Sir, the noted that it is proposed to call up for by way of compromise that the Governor civilians who are a military duty are
in-Council should make the regulations an entirely different position in that military service all British subjects in under Clause 8, but that such regula respect from the regular forces. If any this Colony between the ages of 18 and tions should not come into force untilbody in the regular forces goes on duty approved of by the Legislative Council. by day he takes rest by night, and if he 55 years. Now, Sir, my contention on In that way the actual framing of the goes on duty at night he takes rest by that point is that the age of 55 is too regulations would rest with the Executive day. He has not got to divide civil and high an age to be introduced into con Council and the right of public criticism military duty, and he has not got to pulsary service measure, The Act of these regulations would be reserved by combine the two. There is no doubt that Home making compulsory service, which
Act, George 5th, Chap. 15, makes this provision making them subject to the the reorganisation should have a beneficial every male British subjecs, ordinarily approval of the Legislative Council, and effect, but I think that this is a point resident in Great Britain, between the in that way unofficial members of this which should be borne in mind, that it Council, as the representatives of the is impossible to burn the candle at both nges of 18 and 41 liable to be called " public, will have an opportunity of men ends, that civili is who have to perform for military service during the period of the war. Therefore at Home, Sir, the timing the views of the public upon their civilian da es by day and their mili- period for military service is laid down the regulations. I thought, Sir. it might tary duties by night are not capable of 24 between 18 and 41 years. In the have been possible to accept this sug efficiently performing their ordinary civi Straits Settlements, although the age of gested compromise. I pass one to Ulane lian duties.
With regard, Sir, to (24)-Other vessels or boats;
51 appears in the Ordinance of 1915, 10 of the Bill, Members of the muaketry practice, no doubt that is the which were damaged at or off only persons between the ages of 1s and H.K.VC, and H.R.V.R. to beconte me primary essential, and the only criticion Cheung Chau (Dumbbell Island) 40 are called up for military service, and bera of the Hongkong Defence Corpe and I have to make on that is not made only in the recent typhoons of the 13th are fiable to military training, and per- to have their former rank, Hon. mem- by myself but my many members of the August, and what do the entled Civil Guards, their duties being on the last occasion that it was desirable, whole number of men have been called up. Sometimes it happens that a sons between the ages of 40 und 55 are bers will remember that I pointed out Reserves, pecuniary loss represente merely for the preservation of the pence, at least so it seemed to me, that servicen to go through their musketry practice, such damage come to approxi-and they are placed under the general the Hongkong Defence Corps should and a great waste of time and patience mately!
control of the police officials I submit be deemed to be continuous service, as if has resulted. So it is no good getting a (2)What are the present means Bir, that in Hongkong, with the condi-
adopted for communicating to the tions of the cliante prevailing here, that the Volunteers or Volunteer Reserves, whole crowd of men to indulge in musketry practice, for it is very unsatis Police at Cheung Chau the fact the age limit in clause 2 of the Bill should for the purpose of long service medals. that certain typhoon signals have be reduced from 35 to 45, and that of understand that the hon. and learned factory for them to have to wait for hours been hoisted in Hongkong! course will not prevent those who desire Attorney-General has differed with me on in the afternoon, waiting for their ton it not practicable to improve such to volunteer, and no doubt there will be that point, inasmuch as the granting of to come on at the ranges. I am quite sure over 5 who will desire volunteer, meitals is an act of Royal favour. But that a considerable saving of time could (3)Are the Police at Cheung Chau coming to lader clause of the Bill, and would point out that it is not like the be effected by having legs, men on the on one and the same afternoon. provided with typhoon signals asking to be sempted as members of the conferring of a knighthood or the con-runge and, if not, will the Government Hongkong Defence Corps.
With regard to the question of drill, 1. The next ferring of decorations. There are cer consider the advisability of such clause to which I would refer is clause 6ain regulations, passed at Home with must confess that I am not satisfied that provision being made?
of the Bill, “Application of the Army regard to the conferring of long service | so many drilla are necessary. That seems Act,
t, and here again there is a provision medals for a certain period of service in to be the view at all events in the Colony which is widely opposed to the spirit of the Volunteers or auxiliary forces of Ceylon, for in that happy island if the legislation in the Home country. Therefore, Sir, it appears to me, with all a man puts in 45 drills in the course of Under the provisions of that clause, if due deference to the learned Attorney, a year he receives a special badge as t it were passed, the effect of it will be General, that the proper way of dealing kind of order of merit, and I see that ages of 18 to 55-a much wider limit than with this matter is for some clause to be under this Bill it is proposed to make 50 that all persons in this Colony from the
inserted, some sub-clause inserted in drills compulsory. With regard to this exists at Homewould be subject to the Clanse 10, to state that the service shall question, perlinps other hon. members will provisions of the Army Act for an be deemed to be continuous in the way address your Excellency. Now with re- absolutely indefinite period, for a period that would at present be computed for suggest for the purpose of the long gard to camps. Certain persons in banks the duration of the war and six months service medals. While I am dealing with and other businesses would not be able thereafter. Now, Sir, as is well known, the question of medals I would like to say to attend so many as eight days camp the Imperial Parliament are very loth to that I have just received, a communiea- ennet the Army Act for a lung and inde- tion with reference to the counting of the finite period. There is so much regard servios of ex-ariny of navy men who are (2) There is no telephone communica paid at Home to the liberty of the subject serving in the Volunteers or auxiliary if the question comes up in the fature tion with Choang Chau. On the after-that we find that even in war time, even forces, or in the Delonos Corps of this no doubt we shall have an opportunity noon of the 12th August No, 1 Police last year, in April, 1916, under the Colony, for the long service medals of considering it. I hope that the muske provisions of 8, George.ath, Chap. 3. frankly admit, Sir, that this is a matter try will always be kept in the forefront Launch carled and reported red signals although the war has been going on for which cannot be put by way of an amend of our training. That is the really im hoisted in Hongkong. The same informa nearly two years and of course the war ment to the present Bill, but I propose portant thing, that we should all be at Home affects them much mora nearly in a day or two to send this recommend practised in musketry. Another thing is
the tion tion was given by the ferry launch, at than t docs as they
to your Excellency through the that we should certainly bave sufficient practice which has existed for centuries, proper channel, the Colonial Secretary.
drill to enable us to move about in reason. 6 p.m
I think, of only having an act applicable With regard to Clause 11 of the Billable order, and to keep cool so far as we to the United Kingdom for the period Duration of Ordinance," I would eng- can under the circumstances of the of one year, from April 30th, 1916, to April 30th, 1917. There can be no doubt, Best, in order to bring the matter home climate, in emergencies. I would she Sir, that at Home they are very ivulous and clinch it, that the word only be in conclusion that whilst I have ventured upon the subject of the Army Act being inserted after the word "force and to advocate caution in the way of employ put into force for a lengthy period. And, before the word "until so that thing Volunteers of Reserves too much on night duty, I know that they are ready far as any application of the Act is en phatically, as follows This Ordinance and willing to do all they can, but I hope Di, I would venture to submit that clause shall read quite clearly and em
sufficient in this shall continue in force only until the that the Government will not, because of cerned, it would be
purposes, if the expiration of a period of six months from that readiness and willingness, work then provisions of the
PAPERA
The COLONIAL TREASURER seconded, this was agreed to.
The COLONIAL SECRETARY, by command of H.E. the Governor, laid on the table rapy of correspondence relating to the commercial and industrial policy to adopted throughout the Empire after the
war.
QUESTIONS BY HON. MIL, POLLOCK, The Hon. Mr. POLLOCK asked: --- (1.) What was the number of
(7.)-Junks;
means of communiention 7
I
فل
The COLONIAL SECRETARY replied as for lows:-
+
(1)-Four licensed fishing junks were wreoked or damaged to the extent of $2,630.
Nine licensed harbour boats ander 100 piculs capacity were reported wrecked or damaged to the extent of 8578.
Several other small harbour boats were swamped or otherwise slightly damaged, but such was not reported to the police.
is
continue
ן:
on end. I understand these amended re-. gulations do contain some provision in some way allowing for that. At all events,
The Chinese boat population knew typhoon was about and were prepared to a certain extent, but the gale veered round later in the day and blew directly into the harbour, causing the boats to drag their anchors. There was no loss of life reported,
no typhoon Chaty, for all practical purpose, if the expiration of a period of one me stay fro (3.) The police have signals. Unless it is certain that in No. 4 of 1893, section 17, were made apwill now consider the question of the too far I think it is a mistake to treat formation can always be obtained of plicable to this Defence Corps. I will gulations which are attached to the Bill. civilians who have their day duties to performi, as substitutes as it were for orders for the hoisting of typhoon sigtial read the first part of Section 17 to make Hon. members only received them this ficers arid men, of the regular forces.
With respect to the morning, and I notice that the new
somewhat scipline of oficers and volunteers, when regalations contain. they are under actual military service, stri ont forms with regard to per or are undergoing drill, exercise, train- of old age than the form ing or instraction, or who are doing any regulations,
With
regard to the His Volunteer duties together with
it is best not to hoist them at all..
COMPULSORY MILITARY SERVICE FOR HONGKONG.
Council then considered the second reading of the Bill intituled, “An Ordi- nance to make provision with respect to military service and to provide for the eatablishment, maintenance and control of a local defence corps."
sons
more
I do not think we can possibly expert civilians, with day duties to perform. to take the place of officers and men in the regular forces. I shall have certain amendments to propose in Committee,
Majesty's regular force, or any partneral principle of the regulations, Hon. Mr. E. CANTON-I should like while I admit that a good deal can take effect, namely, the provisions of be done in the way of improved organis second reading of the Bill. At a may ing the Army Act of the Imperial Parliament, tion of the forces, I would venture to of this Council rme months ago H or so far as the same are applicable and suggest that we ought to be very careful Excellency the General Officer Command consistent with the provisions of this in this matter to keep before ourselves ing made a remark to the effect that the Ordinance, apply to all officers and what I subunit is a wise ideal, and that obiect of war is to ensure peace. But I volunteers, with the following modifica is, that after all we are legislating for think there is an apter saying that to tions only. Then there are various persons whose ordinary avocations and ensure peace e must be prepared for modifications of the Army Act mentioned. duty in life is to their business, or to war. Great -itain has gone through