December 11, 1909.] +
HONGKONG LEGISLATIVE
COUNCIL.
A meeting of the Hongkong Legislative Council was held on Thursday in the Council Chamber.
The following were present:- HIS EXCELLENCY THE Governor, SIR FREDERICK JOHN DEALTRY LUGARD, K.C.M.G., C.B., D.S.O.
Ilon. Sir F. H. MAY, K.C.M.G. (Colonial Secretary).
CHINA CVERLAND TRADE REPORT.
Hon. Dr. o KAI-Six months is not too short.
Hon. Mr. HEWETT-Six months is a long time. The clause was passed as framed. On clause 6,
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said no definition of marketable security appeared in the Imperial Act, and he moved that the following section be inserted: "In this Ordinance unless the text otherwise requires the expression marketable security means security of such description as is capable of being sold in the stock markets in the United Kingdom and Hongkong."
The COLONIAL TREASURER-How could you compare the United Kingdom to Hongkong? Hon. Mr. HEWETT-Singapore and Shanghai Hon. Mr. F. A. HAZELAND (Attorney-have very big markets of stocks unsaleable in General).
Hongkong.
Hon. Mr. A. M. THOMSON (Colonial Trea- surer).
Hon. Mr. P. N. H. JONES (Director of
Public Works).
Hon. Mr. A. W. BREWIN (Registrar-General). Hon. Mr. F. J. BADELEY (Capt. Superinten- dent of Police).
Hon. Dr. Họ KAI, M.B, C.B.G.
Hon. Mr. E. OSBORNE.
Hon. Mr. E. A. HEWETT.
Hon. Mr. MURRAY STEWART.
Hon. Mr. WEI YUK, C.M.G.
Mr. C. CLEMENTI (Clerk of Councils).
MINUTES.
The minutes of the last meeting were read and confirmed.
FINANCIAL MINUTES.
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HIS EXCELLENCY suggested that the section should be altered to read in any stock market." The COLONIAL TREASURER-I think if you cut out the words leave Hongkong it will do.
United Kingdom "and
Hon. Mr. ŎSBORNE-Shanghai people can buy in Hongkong.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL-nd Shanghai stock is capable of being sold here.
The COLONIAL SECRETARY-The Home Act
"marketable in the United Kingdom." says
Hon. Mr. OSBORNE-You could not sell Con- sols in Hongkong.
The COLONIAL TREASURER-Put down the word Hongkong. This is a Hongkong law. The other is a law of the United Kingdom.
Hon. Mr. HEWETT Then if marketable security is not negotiable in Hongkong you don't get probate on it
The COLONIAL SECRETARY, by command of His Excellency the Governor, laid on the table Financial Minutes (Nos 55 and 56), and moved that they be referred to the Finance Com-stand that, sir. On shares in companies here
mittee.
FINANCIAL.
The COLONIAL. SECRETARY, by command of His Excellency the Governor, laid on the tabla
moved its adoption.
and unpret of the Finance Committee (No. 19) The COLONIAL TREASURER seconded, and the motion was agreed to..
TRADE MARKS ORDINANCE AMENDMENT. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL moved that the Bill entitled "An Ordinance to amend the Law relating to Trade Marks" be recommitted for a certain verbal alteration.
The COLONIAL SECRETARY seconded, and the motion was agreed to, the Council going into Committee.
On the Council resuming, The ATTORNEY-GENE AL moved the third reading of the Bill.
The COLONIAL SECRETARY seconded, and the Bill was read a third time and passed.
STAMP ORDINANCE AMENDMENT. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL moved the second reading of a Bill entitled "An Ordinance to amend the Stamp Ordinance, 1901." In doing so he said-The Bill proposes to further amend the Stamp Ordinance. Clauses 1 to 3 are de- signed by the imposition of penalties in respect of delayed applications, to induce interested parties to make early application for probate of the estate of deceased persons to prevent evasion of duties. Clause 4 relates to the stamp: ing on a conveyance or assignment on sale and incorporates section 55 of the Imperial Act of
1891.
The COLONIAL SECRETARY-Sir, in second- ing the motion, I would add that the evasions of probate are so frequent and inconvenient and detrimental to the revenue that it has been deemed necessary to impose an extra probate duty in order to curtail what I may call this dishonest practice.
The motion was carried, and Council went into Committee to consider the Bill clause by
clause.
On clause 2,
Hon. Mr. STEWART-Is the period “within six months after the discovery" agreed upon by those in a position to know whether it is a satisfactory period?
The COLONIAL TREASURER-Six months is a very long time after discovery.
Hon. D. Ho KAI-If there is a reasonable. excuse, the penalty would not be attached.
Hon. Mr. HEWETT-Reasonable excuse is provided for in 20 (a.)
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL. -No. Hon. Mr. STEWART-I should like to under-
sold in Shanghai you don't claim probate, is that
it?
The COLONIAL TREASURER-It is not a case of probate at all. This section deals with
Convoy Mr. STE
..on. Mr. STEWART-Is that the effect of the amendments?
The COLONIAL TREASURER-The question is one of giving marketable security as part of the return for a conveyance.
Hon. Mr. EWETTIt must be based on the Hongkong market just as the sum calculated atome is on the United Kingdom market.
The clause was adopted. Council then resumed.
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THE CODE OF CIVIL PROCEDURE. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL moved the second reading of a Bill entitled An Ordinance to amend the Code of Civil Procedure." In doing so he said- The object of this amendment is to restore the right of either party to ask for a jury in civil causes, which right existed between the passing of the Hongkong Code of Civil Pro- cedure in the year 1873 and the passing in the year 1901 of the Code of Civil Procedure, which repealed the earlier code.
The COLONIAL SEC ETARY seconded.. HIS EXCELLENCY Gentlemen, the amend- ment in the law by which the right of trial by jury is extended to all class of cases originates in a memorial received by me from the British members of the Chamber of Commerce, that memorial to the Chief Justice for his I sent comments upon it, and both he and the Puisne Judge opposed the change in the law. His Honour the Chief Justice gave reasons and ex- plained the various instances in which a jury had been refused in recent times. He also made some very definite objections, which, in his view, were opposed to the change contemplated. I sent his letter to the British members of the Chamber of Commerce and they replied in the following terms to me: The principal of the Chamber of Commerce unanimously to reason that has led the British members support the proposed Bill is that from all quar- ters they have received indications leading them to the conclusion that the public of this Colony terests that a jury should be obtainable if consider it of vital importance to their in-
applied for by either party to a suit. They said that they had again considered the matter by the light of the arguments of the Chief Justice and that they were still unani- mously of opinion that the law should be also to the Hongkong Law Society, who sup- changed as proposed. I referred the question
ported the proposed change in the law, and I
507
may add that the Hon. Mr. Pollock, who is a legal unofficial member of this Council and who is not present here to-day to state his view, was strongly in favour of this change. There must, of course, in any alteration of a law on so important a point be several dissentients in so large a community as this, and I have received a statement of objections from a leading barrister in this Colony and I believe that one or two unofficial members also intend to oppose the motion. The only reason why this Bill is introduced into the Council is because I believed, and still be- lieve, it is th wish of the large majority of the community of Hongkong that this change should be made. I feel, however, very strongly that any change by which either enlargement or curtailment of the rights of trial by jury should be effected in the law is one of such vital importance, and affects a principle which
is considered by British citizens as of such im- portance that it should not be introduced unless there is an undoubted majority in favour of it. It is based upon no ephemeral cause and upon no popular phase of the feeling of the moment or of the day. If those who oppose this motion can show that they have any considerable por- tion of the community who think with them, it will be open to us to consider what course should be taken.
Hon. Mr. STEWART-If the object of this Bill had been to reduce the number of cases in which special juries can be requisitioned, a good reason for that would have at once suggested itself in the smallness of the special jury list. That might reasonably have been used as an argument to justify the law of this Colony being made to depart from the law of England. But in view of the fact that our special jury list is a very small one, and that the time of every man upon it is valuable, the proposal to depart from the existing law in the direction of adding to the number of cases in which a special jury may be called, requires the strongest reasons. Your Excellency has supplied strong reasons for the action taken by the Government in introducing this Bill, and from the suitors' point of view explanation is easy. We can all, I am sure, appreciate the advant- age of being tried by our peers. But inasmuch as it has been found necessary in the very home of trial by jury to set certain limits upon the claims of suitors, special jurors here may reasonably ask to have very good reason shown why these limits should be abolished in the Colony. I remember a time, which does not seem very long ago, when special jurors groaned under the tyranny imposed upon them by the require- ments of litigation. Then one heard only about the hardship of busy men being required to abandon their offices for days together in busy times, and the existing law is the result of an attempt made to remedy this state of mat- ters in a sense diametrically opposed to the present Bill. I am inclined to think that if you pass this Bill and there should occur a run of special jury cases you might hear that out- 1 do not feel sure that there cry again.
is any widespread demand for the proposed alteration, and until I am satisfied upon that I suggest the postponement of the second read- point I shall not see my way to support this Bill. ing in order that the feeling of the general public towards it may be properly gauged.
Hou. Mr. HEWETT-Your Excellency, I did not propose to say anything on this Bill, because I hoped that the Bill would be accepted by the whole Council after the remarks made by your Excellency, and the very satisfactory reason we have heard why it is required in this Colony However, having listened to the remarks made by the hon. member who represents the Justices of the Peace, I can only express my great regret certainly gave the hon. member credit- which that such a speech has been made by him. I
I think in most cases he fully deserves of being public spirited. I do not suppose for a moment that he would have shirked his duty if called to serve upon a jury, and that is partly where the shoe pinches.
Hon. Mr. STEWART-I am exempt. Hon. Mr. HEWETT-Is he exempt? Hon. Mr. STEWART—As a member of this Council.
special jury very often give up their time be- Hon. Mr. HEWETT—Anyway, members of the
cause they are public spirited and realiās