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April 3, 1909.1
RAILWAY CONSTRUCTION IN
'CROWN COLONIES.
SIR FRANK SWETTENHAM AND THE CROWN AGENTS.
We have received a copy of the Report of the Committee of Enquiry into the organisation of the Crown Agents Office, and also a copy of the minutes of evidence.
The following extract from the evidence given by Sir F. A. Swettenham, K.C.M.G., has an interest for readers in Hongkong which justifies its reproduction.
877A. With regard to the system of carrying out works in the colonies under the advice and control of consulting engineers, you wish to give some evidence ?—I think that is quite wrong. 878. You think that is wrong altogether?- Absolutely wrong.
879: The system of carrying out the works?
Yes.
880. Would you tell us why? I think that is wrong in the case where the colony has got qualified officers to deal with the work. I think it stands to reason that it must be wrong. The system that is employed through the Crown Agents and the consulting engineers is that the consulting engineers become responsible for the work nominally. They undertake the work; they appoint an engineer to do it; they make a contract with him and the Government of the Colony has no voice in the matter whatever, ex- cept to pay all the bills.
881. Describe to us just what would happen in particular case. Where does the consulting engineer come in and who appoints him? Let us say that you want to make a bridge or railway in the Straits Settlements? -Suppose you want to make a railway in the Straits Settlements. I will describe a case which actually occurred. In Singa- pore they wished to make a railway across the island; it was approved by the Secretary of State, and the consulting engineers were im- mediately, being in the position of having to advise on the railway.-
any
882. Which consulting engineers? How did they come in ?-The consulting engineers of the Crown Agents. They then proceeded to appoint an engineer to carry out the construc- tion. The Colony was not asked anything about that; they appointed anybody they chose, sent them out to the Colony, and they proceeded to construct the railway. They did construct it al- most, but at last the Colony could not bear it longer, and there was such a fuss made that the engineer went away leaving it unfinished, and it was finished by the engineers of the Malay States Railways. The whole of that was done through the consulting engineers, their man in Singapore reporting directly to them everything that he was doing, and the Government of the Colony had no control whatever of any kind. All that the Colony could do was to pay the bill, and we always had to pay whatever was demanded, although the original estimates were enormously exceeded. They were exceeded time after time, and every time you had to go to the Council and say: "We have nothing whatever to do with this work; it is entirely outside the control of anybody in the Colony, but the gentleman who has been appointed by the consulting engineers in England says that he wants some more money, and you have got
to vote it."
883. And they did ?-They were told from here that they had to.
884. (Mr. Harris.) They did not
go to the Colonial Office on the matter?-The Colonial Office almost invariably supports the Crown Agents.
885. (Sir Francis Mowatt.) Will you just complete the story? You say that the engineer went away, and some other engineer then pro- ceeded to superintend? Who appointed the second engineer?-One or two of the works built by this first man collapsed; a bridge tum- bled down and I think an embankment gave way, and everybody in the Colony became a critic of the railway, so that at last the man got so tired of itall that, mainly through the representations of the Government, when it was nearly completed, he went away. The Malay States having already for twenty years been constructing their own railways without any assistance whatever from
CHINA OVERLAND TRADE REPORT.
the Crown Agents, sent a man down and com- pleted it.
886. (Chairman.) But how was it that the Crown Agents came in the first time in the case of this railway and did not come in the case of the other railways built during the preceding not a British Colony, and never has been, and twenty years P-Because the Malay States therefore they have done more what they like.
887. If it was necessary for Singapore to go did they manage to evade the Crown Agents to the Crown Agents in the first instance, how when they found the bridges tumbling down and got the Federated Malay States to do it for them ?--I think at last at this end, the Colonial Office, the Crown Agents and the consulting engineers got rather tired of the constant com- plaints that were made, and the man himself at last got so sick of it that he said he would like to go away, and that was the actual result.
888. (Sir Francis Mowatt) But did the Crown Agents appoint or approve of the second engineer P-No, I do they did. The line took more than twice as not think long to construct as it ought to have done, it cost about twice the original estimate, and it was beginning to look as if the line would never be finished, and in despair they all said, All right, do it your own way," but there was very little left to be done.
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down?-That happened afterwards.
889. But what about the parts that tumbled
incident you are telling us about-From 100 890. (Mr. Gibson.) What was the date of this
to 1903,
last Report dealing with the resolutions of the 891. The completion of this was later than the Crown Agents to the Colonies, dealt with by Mr. Chamberlain ?--I was in Singapore at the time, and I represented to the Colonial Office as plainly as I could what the facts were, but, as I say, they support the Crown Agents in these matters, and I was told this was what was called the recognised system. I pointed out that we had been for twenty years very successfully con- structing railways in the Malay States by what said that did not matter that we had been was not called the recognised system, but they twenty years wrong. That was all.
of State for the time being took the view that 892. (Chairman.) am told that the Secretary in Singapore the local officials had not got experience of building railways ?-I think that
is true.
893. And that therefore they could not be allowed to be responsible for building them ?-I think that is the case; I think there was not in the service of the Government in Singapore at that moment anybody capable of doing it, but surely it was just as easy for the Colony to ap- point a man as it is for the consulting engineers. The difference is that the man having been appointed by the consulting engineers in this case had never previously been in the Colony or the East at all, and he knew nothing about the price of local labour, local materials, or anything to do with it. Consequently he was constantly making mistakes for which the Colony had to pay, because there is really no responsibility, and sulting engineers are not only your advisers but what seems so entirely wrong is that the con- they are really the constructors of the railway. They are advising on their own work all the time That is what seems so wrong. They are responsible yet they are your only technical advisers. That is a position that cannot be right.
894. (Mr. Harris.) Are you sure that they were constructors ?--Yes.
895. I remember a good many cases of con struction of railways, but my recollection is that always there has been a constructing firm apart mental work, and I myself am strongly in favour from the consulting engineers. This is a Depart of Departmental work when it is done by the Government with an engineer who is quite independent of the consulting engineers.
895a. I have had some little experience of the Colonial Office, and that is my conception that you are telling us of a system which was of the usual system. I cannot help thinking an anomaly ?-I have no doubt about it.
896. (Chairman.) I am told that the usual practice is that the resident engineer is looked upon as the servant of the local Government, and that all his reports to the consulting engineers go through the Government. Was
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that the case with you?-As to the engineer, no ; as to the correspondence, yes, under flying seal they do.
are not supposed to be capable of constructing a 897. But you could do nothing on it ?—I we railway we are clearly not capable of criticising it why did I not go out and look at the work it. In this question I was told if I did not like
did not pretend to be an engineer. and say what was the matter with it. I said I
be capable of was to pay for it ?-That was all, and as regards that we were not allowed to raise 898. The only thing you were considered to
question at all. We were simply told that we had to pay the bill.
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meet with your approval, and according to Mr. 899. We understand this system did not Harris it was anomalous. What would you suggest in substitution for it where Colonies want to build a railway ?-I suggest a system which has been followed in the Malay States with great success,
wants to build a railway The Government 900. What is that? Suppose that a Colony appointed its own railway engineers.
901. (Sir Francis Mowatt.) The local Go. vernment-Yes, it appointed its own engineers just as it would appoint its own doctor and its own public works man.
902. (Chairman.) Then they would pro- ceed to advertise for tenders for looo- not motives, and the Crown Agents would come in at all? Yes. Some of the work at first was done through contractors, but it has all been done by the Government depart we found it was not satisfactory, and eventually mentally, small sub-contracts being given out, but the whole of the work being done under the control of the Government instead of by con- tractors.
consulting engineer?They were the very same 903. (Sir Ralph Moor). But you had a consulting engineers. We had no voice in that
matter.
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904. But you had your own working staff ?— salting engineers, We were not allowed to choose our own con
905. In the Malay States P-Yes, we were not allowed to choose our own consulting engineers.
906. (Chairman.) Who chose them for you P-The Colonial Office or the Crown a gents. 907. (Sir Francis Mowatt.) I think the question asked by the Chairman was; What is it. was the system you would approve of?—That
consulting engineers chosen by the Colony-Yes, 908. I understand you would approve of 909. We were not talking at the moment of were talking of what system you would recom what really happened in that instance, but we mend?-The system that was followed in the Malay States. I do not think it matters whether the Colonial Office or the Crown Agents, or the Colony choose the consulting engineers; so long as they are people of repute tion I do not think it matters in the least. All I mean is that they ought to have nothing to do with the construction, and they ought not to the resident engineers who carry out the work, have anything to do with the appointment of except by request.
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910. (Chairman.) I quite see your point?-As that, when the Malay States had been con- we are talking about that, I might mention structing railways on this plan for at least twelve years, all of a sudden, without asking us anything at all, an engineer was sent out from England to go and inspect all the lines for the benefit of the Crown Agents. We never and make a report to the consulting engineers asked for him; we could have, supplied the long time to acquire, but to our great surprise whole of the information that it took him a at the end we were told to pay the bill.
911. (Mr. Harris.) Are you certain that in your absence somebody did not ask for him ?----- Absolutely positive.
912. It seems to me an extraordinary thing to happen.-I am positive about it.
913. I did not know that the Colonial Office bad a double life ?—I am absolutely positive and there is no question about it, because I said something about thinking it was strange that we should be asked to pay for this gentleman whom we had never asked for at all, as we could have supplied all the information which it took