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May 2, 1908.]
or
the Committee in the papers which 1 studied on this subject there was no indication what ever that they had access to confider tial despatches. I find I was in error in the statement I made and
I deeply regret having made it. Exception was also taken to my remarks that the Commission had somewhat exceeded their powers.
The com- mittee was constituted to advise on the matter of the administration of the existing ordinance and my predecessor said "I do not contemplate modification of the Ordinance of 19 3." I think I was well within the truth in the remark I made. Further, it has been stated that Sir Matthew Nathan repeatedly saw the Chair- man of the Commission and had discussions with him from time to time as to the progress of their investigations. I regret very much that no record has been left of what transpired on those occasions, but it is perfectly clear from the fact of his baving had these discussions and from the fact that he accepted the report that he intended to deal with it as though it had been entirely within the terms of reference. And that is the attitude I have myself adopted, and the proof of it is that we are bere to-day discussing the second reading of the Amending Bill, whether it was within the original terms of reference or not. I may add that whether or not they were within the scope of the terms of reference no recommenda- tion, be it great or small, that they made in that report has been set aside on that ground, Every single recommendation suggestion has been considered on its merits irrespective of whether or not it was with- in the precise terms of the reference. It is not usual gentlemen that a speech which is made in this Council should be debated by any public body ontside the Council before it has been replied to in this Chamber. When I saw that discussion was likely to take place at the Sanitary Board a short time ago I took the opportunity of suggesting to the President that no limitation should be placed npon the discussion so that members of the Commission who are members of the Sanit- ary Board might be able to reply to anything I had said in the fullest manner they desired. I have allowed myself in the few words I have just said to travel outside the strict discussion of the Bill in order to amplify the remarks I made at the first reading. It is eight weeks to-day since we introduced this Bill to the Council and hon. members and the community outside have had now considerable time to study its provisions, and I am glad to say that the fallest advantage has been taken of that opportunity, The European land and property owners appointed two leading firms of architects to study and report upon it and the Chinese property owners have adopted the same course and appointed a third firm to report on the Bill. The Sanitary Board has had several meetings to discuss the Amending Ordinance and we are in possession of their views, I welcome on behalf of the Government most cordially this body of opinion and the criticisms which have been most valuable and ! think they will tend to improve the Bill which I hope will be a useful measure and will set at rest this perennial controversy on the subject of sanitation in this Colony. I turn now to one or two of the principal points raised in the speeches to which we have listened. In the first place
think, after the eloquent speech which we had from the hon member on my right (Mr. Osborne) that I may dismiss the question as regards the municipality or quasi-municipa. lity which was raised by the Sanitary Com- mission. I noted in the hon member's speech with the greatest possible pleasure the encourag ing tribute which he paid to the singleness of purpose-I do not say to the ability or non- ability-bat to the singleness of purpose of Government officials in endeavouring to do the best, as far as in them lies, for the public welfare, and I hope the words of the bon member reflect generally the opinion of anof- ficial members of the Council and of the
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and indefatigable work of the Registrar General, Mr. Brewio, supported by both the hon mem- bars who represent the Chinese on this Council, and by the two gentlemen, Mr. Lan Chu Pak and Mr. Fung Wa Chun, who represent the Chi- nese community on the Banitary Board, great progress has been made in the co-operation of the Chinese in this matter. The establishment of dispensaries has advanced very rapidly. Their objects are to enable the Chinese fo understand what the Sanitary law is and to teach them how to act in cases of infectious disease and to enable them to remove their sick and dead without the interference, if possible, of the sanitary officers, and to appoint street committeer. Quite recently, at the beginning of February last, we had advanced a further step in the appointment of Street Committees. had the pleasure of meeting them a few weeks ago, and I was struck with the enthusiasm and obvious attention to their duties of the large number of gentlemen, some two hundred, who attended that day. In future the dispensaries will be under the control of the Tung Wa Hospital Committee which has been attend. ing to the supervision of the work, I trust this will result in a considerable decrease in the abandonment of dead bodies. With regard to the question of disinfection there was a large number of minor amendments made by the Commissioners in their report. The majority of these really involve amendments t› byelaws. Only some months ago the Council asked the Sanitary Board to submit any byelaws which they considered needed revision in view of the report of the Commission. With regard to the amendment proposed by my hon learned friend on my right I think the point he has raised is an important one and I can promise that it shall receive the most careful consideration of the Government. He said that a deadlock was reached when there occurred a
powers and status and can devote his whole, time to his work will result in the far better administration of the sanitary laws and above all in securing the co-operation and understanding of the Chinese in what We are trying to achieve The hon. senior unofficial member of the connoil (applause.) alluded to the question of the appointment of the Medical Officer of Health as a member of the Sanitary Board. When introducing this Bill I said that this matter had been debated before and I observed there had been considerable opposition to the proposal and if it appeared at present that the unanimo s opinion of the unofficial members was against that proposal I shall not be prepared to insist upon | it. At the 88 m 9 time I must say that it appears to me that the argument that the Medical Officer of Health would be the master of the Board and that any proposal from him emanating as medical officer which they thought fit to amend would not be set aside when 88 ย member of the Board he was called upon to vote after hearing arguments based on finance-that argument; it seems to me, is untensble, Personally, I am of the opinion that as Sanitary Board is only another name for Health Board it is essential that there should be a Government medical officer upon the Board, whether he is the Principal Medica! Offiosr of Health or the Assistant Medical Offoer of Health, and I feel sure that the Secretary of State will insist upon that. With regard to the question of open spaces, it has been arged that the law is too drestia and 1 bave been anxious to make myself personally acquainted with the operation of the law by inspeotin various types of houses to which it has been applied. The net result app ared to be that it was absolutely inconceivable to make any law which would meet the great variety of types of houses and built on gradients of serious steepness The existing law has been modified by Ordin- ance 8 of .907 which gives power of exemption and modification to the Governor in Council. I think gentlemen, that if no other result had followed from the report of the Commission the Commissioners might consider their labours had been effective in having procured the enactment of that ordinance. I think the value and importance of that ordinancs has been underrated or at least has not been properly appreciated. It is now possible for exemptions, for modifications to be applied for in any case in which the lay appears to operate harshly in any variety or type of house. The hon, senior unofficial member laid stress upon the fact that overlegislation would tend to drive away the population and enhance the oost of labour This policy of open spaces has now been in operation since 1899 and I may add that the policy of scavenging lanes has been in operation sinca 1887. I am of the opinion that it is wise and politic not to change our legislation from time to time but to allow, as by the Ordinance of last year, greater elasticity, greater liberality in interpretation by granting powers of exemption and modification. With regard to the scavenging of lanes it may perhaps be said that the money which, the Government has spent in providing these might perhaps have been better spent in providing sums for large resumptions. That however is a matter of opinion and has now become an academic question. The policy has been in operation for 20 years, and it is one on which Messrs. Chadwick and Simpson laid special stress. These gentlemen, Osborne has told us, were experts sent out from home to this Colony at the special wish of the community, and it was on their suggestions that the Public Health Ordinance was framed. I had intended to say a few words with reference to the words" by the owner in section 175 but in view of what has fallen from the senior anofficial member there is hardly any necessity now to touch upon that subject. There is one other point upon which I think it is advisable to say a few words. That is the question of disinfection. I think gentlemen wa are in process of reaching a solution in this matter which is the best of all possible solutions and in my opinion the only solution, that is by improving the sanitation of the city and by stopping the abandonment of the dead in the streets and by the co-operation of the Chinese themselves. Owing to the tactful
leading people of the colony. With regard to the matter of the administrative head of the Sanitary Department there is little to say, Both the bon, members on my right who have spoken have signified their approval of the proposals of the Government in this matter. I entertain great hopes that the present inter- vention of an administrative head who has
divergence of opinion between the person desiring to carry out the work or his architect and the Building Authority as to the interpreta- tion of the law but that, I think, is hardly a correct description of the existing condition of affairs since there is of course an appeal to the Governor-in-Council, who is advised by the Attorney General as to his decision in any ruling. I don't say that that would be entirely satisfactory from a legal point of view as a ruling by the Supreme Court. It has the great merit that it involves no cost to either party and it is speedy and final. Should there be a considerable number of such appli. cations made involving considerable expense to the Government, the circumstances would be different, but that is a point 1 will not go into at present. I should like to take the advice of my legal adviser upon it. All I can promise at present is that it shall have our careful consideration. The hon. member on my right asked that wa should adjourn the discussion of the Bill in committee to give members sufficient time in which to study it, and I propose that we shall not take it for another three weeks.
Mr. 88
HON. ME. POLLOCK-I have to ask your Excellency to grant a longer adjournment than three weeks. I would ask an adjournment for a further two weeks. The Hon. Mr. Osborne is leaving the Colony on Thursday next and a member will have to be appointed to the Council in his place, and that member will come
Dew
to this Bill. He will have to study thoroughly the provisions of the priginal Ordinance and of the various Amending Or- dinances and understand the purport of the various amendments proposed. I would ask for a further adjournment on a personal ground. Circumstances have arisen which will render it necessary for me to leave the Colony on Thursday next by the "Empress of Japan," and I do not anticipate that I can be back within three weeks from this date. It would amount to this that in place of the hon. member there would be a new member who would not have mastered the intricacies of this important Bill and I am afraid I should not be present in my place in the Council as 1 would like to be when this Bill is being considered. It is very important when this Bill which we hope to put an end to Sanitary legislation for a time is being considered that every unofficial member should be in his place.
HIS EXCELLENCY—I have already considered the point raised by the hon. member who has