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34
HONGKONG LEGISLATIVE
COUNCIL.
A meeting of the Legislative Council was held at the Council Chamber on the 1st inst. There were present:-
HIS EXCELLENCY THE GOVERNOR, SIR MATTHEW NATHAN, K.C.M.G.
H. E. MAJOR-GENERAL VILLIERS-HATTON, C. B. (General Officer Commanding the Troops).
Hon. Mr. F. H. MAY, C.M.G. (Colonial Secretary).
Hon. Sir H. S. BERKELEY, K.C. (Attorney. General).
Hon. Mr. L. A. M. JOHNSTON (Colonial Treasurer).
Hon. Mr. A. W. BREWIN (Registrar General).
Hon. Mr. W. CHATHAM (Director of Public Works)
Hon. Captain L. A. W. BARNES-Lawrence R.N. (Harbour Master).
Hon. Sir C. P. CHATER, C.M.G. Hon. Dr. Ho Kai, M.B., C.M., C.M.G. Hon. Mr. WEI YOK.
Hon. Mr. GERSHOM STEWART. Hon. Mr. W. C. DICKSON, Hon. Mr. R Shewan.
Mr. A. G. M. FLETCHEE (Clerk of Councils).
FINANCIAL.
The COLONIAL SECRETARY-Sir, I beg to bring up report of the Financial Committee No. 2, and propose its adoption.
The COLONIAL TREASURER seconded, and it was carried
NEW TERRITORIES LAND ORDINANCE,
courts
The ATTORNEY GENERAL-Sir, I rise to move the second reading of the bill, entitled. An Ordinance to facilitate the transfer of land in the New Territories and for settling disputes in respect thereof and for other purposes. Since its recent introduction here everything has been so well stated that it is hardly necessary for me to say anything further. Certainly I have nothing further to recommend to the house regarding this bill. The bill is designed to make more easy the transfer of land in the New Territory with small holders who are for the most part of the poorer class. With that object the bill provides for the establish- ment in the New Territory of district offices for land officers and a land registration office in Hongkong. And the bill provides short, clear, simple forms of conveyances and other forms of documents dealing with the transfer and mortgage of landed property. In order to make the necessary resource to of law as inexpensive as possible certain jurisdiction is conferred by the bill on the land officer who is empowered to decide any small question and settle disputes which arise between land holders in the New Territory. There is no question upon which more disputes arise than questions of landed interests, and necessarily so in a new territory. It is with the object to enable them to be dealt with satisfactorily quickly, cheaply, easily and summarily that this bill has been drawn up, as is set out in the clauses. The court has taken steps at the same time to review the decisions of the land officer who will be entrusted. Power is given to allow appeal to the Supreme Court in certain cases, from the decision of the land officer relating to titles of claim, and also special cases may, by special leave of the officer, be tried in the Supreme Court. If the officer refuses to allow appeal the holder may obtain special leave from the Supreme Court to appeal. As it is possible that there may owners in the New Territory who are not inclined to take advantage of the advantages referred to in this Bill the Governor may exempt any property from operation of this Ordinance. I move the reading of the biil for a second time.
be
some
The COLONIAL SECRETARY seconded. Hon. Mr. SHEWAN-I am sorry I cannot agree with the Hon. Attorney General's remark that the objects and reasons were perfectly plain, The Bill before us purports to be a bill to facil- ⚫itate the transfer of land in the New Territory, but is also a bill to give the Governor power, without any restrictions, to grant exemption to Crown Lessees on any terms he shall think fit. In other words we are supposed to be passing
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THE HONGKONG WEEKLY PRESS AND
an Ordinance but are leaving it all to the discre- | tion of the Governor. In the objects and reasons for this Bill it is stated that some owners will prefer to hold under the usual law of the Colony. Undoubtedly they will but why should this not be exactly provided for instead of being left entirely to the Governor ? We seem to be making one law for the rich and another for the peor, and the Governor's discretion must give rise to hear burnings and jealousies. The objects and reasons read to me very curiously: It says: “As some owners in the New Territories will probably prefer to hold under the usual law of the Colony." Who are the owners who are as good as to prefer the usual law of the Colony, and who are those others for whom it is not good enough? The functions of us unofficial members are, I know, of no avail against the Government's fixed majority of officials who, I believe, are bound to
consciences of their own, but to make us pass such a vague Ordinance as this is reducing us to absolute nonentities. The Government cannot pride itself on i's dealings with land in the New Territory, for it has already made a pinful exhibition of its own incapacity and greed by bringing in a bill to reverse the verdict of its own Land Court, and actually made the Bill retroactive to deprive a poor Chinaman of land
granted him after a careful hearing. If that be a fair specimen of our boasted British jus- tice, then British justice must be a very poor thing, indeed. It was just another case of Naboth's Vineyard, only that Ahab was not such a hyprocrite as to try to justify bim- self by making a new law to cover his misdeeds. Now we are asked to pass a measure which, if in the hands of incompetent or unscrup- ulous officials, would only make confusion worse confounded and leave the door open for grave abuses. I think the Building Ordinance had some such clause, and what has been the result ? If ever a Bill has been more honoured in the breach than in the observance it is that Bill. We were told ad nauseam that houses must not be higher than one and a half times the width of the street, but look at the size of the houses that have since been built, and the amusing part of it is that the very sanitary expert for whom the Government specially made a place on the Council that he might drive it through with the weight of his authority, now sits as Head of the Sanitary Board, and merrily grants disponations to all and sundry to break its provisions.
vote with the Government aud are not allowed
which the Government's own Land Court bad
Hon. Mr. MAY-I rise to a point of order. Hon. Mr. SHEWAN-I am trying to point out what happens when that right is given to the Governor or the Sanitary Board or some such authority. Now the very man who, made the law now sits and recommends the Government to bring a fresh ordinance to b eak it. That may happen here. I will not continue if you think I am out of order. Such bills are a travesty of legislation to be brought bere, and made to pass such laws by a majority which is compelled to vote with the Government and knows not nor cares anything about them. I oppose the Bill because instead of stating clearly on what terms the Government propose to exempt Crown Lessees from its provisions it renders null and void all its prisions by leaving them to be modified on any terms the Government thinks fit. Everyone should be equal before the law, and the law should be applied equally to everyone, but in this Calony it seems that anyone with influence whats a law modified can get it altered in his favour by applying to the Sanitary Board or some other authority. Such bills are not legislation. What is the use of laws if you do not enforce them strictly and impartially, and what is the use of a law which, after providin over 48 different clauses, leaves it to the Governor to abrogate them all on such terms as he shall think fit."
Hon. Dr. Ho Ka-The only objection raised by the Hon. Member opposite seems to be to a certain clause in the Bill,
[Jane 3, 1905,
That is, of course, in one section, and I think it quite competent for him, while approving the principle of the Bill, to bring forward that objection in Committee and have it altered or expunged altogether. As far as the principle of the Bill is concerned. it is constituted clearly to facilitate the transfer or mortgage of land in the New Territory, and on this principle the Bill is, I think, extremely sound, forasmuch as the am ll holders which preponderate in the New Territory would be presumed not to wish to incur any very great expenses or spend too much time or trouble in going to law over land valued at a few hundred dollars. Besides, by paying the usual fees and charges which obtain in the Colony in effecting transfers of properties and mortgages, the sum left to the present holder would be very small, indeed. So therefore, Sir, I say that a law which will facilitate matters and save money, time and trouble to peasant landholders is-worthy of the support of this Council.
And as 8 member legislating for the Chinese, I assure you, Sir, it has a very beneficent effect upon the holders of property in the New Territory. Now, we know very well that holders of property in the New Territory have been accustomed to hold land from the Chinese Government, and have no executed plan of their hold, and constantly you will find that some of them have got feet. sometimes yards, I won't say miles, but certainly yards, encroaching upon the property of others. In these sort disputes; where the property is worth a few dollars-may be $100-it is absurd to expect that these men should be able to come over to Hongkong and take the case up to the Supreme Court, employing lawyers, and possibly counsel, when the cost for settlement of the dispute may be quite as much, if not twice or three times as expensive as the worth of the land. It is the principle of this bill to do away with the hardships of peasant proprietors, and I say it is worthy of the support of this council. I quits admit, Sir, that there are several points in the Ordinance that require more careful and further consideration, and possibly we shall have to consider whether an amendment of such pro- visions is necessary or not; but that we can do afterwards. So far as the principle of the Bill is concerned, I say that I, and I believe my colleague, most heartily support it inasmuch 8.3 We believe that if the Bill is passed and the provisions properly carried out, it will confer a decided boon on small land bol- ders in the New Territory. Besides, it will, no doubt, give them great satisfaction and secure their confidence in the administration of just tice in a British Colony.
of
Hou. Mr. WEI YUK-I quite coucur with what my colleague has said.
The COLONIAL SECRETARY-Sir, it is to be regretted, I think, that the Hon. Member who opposed the Bill should have poured out his phials of wrath without first asking the mean. ing of the sub-section which is so obnoxions to him, but it is possible, Sir, that it may have been a pleasure to him to find a peg on which to hang the accusations of incompetency and unscrupulousness against the officers who are going to administer the Bill.
Hon. Mr. SHEWAN-Sir, I rise to order. Have 1 made any charge of incompetency or accused anybody of being incompetent or unscrupulous F
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The COLONIAL SECRETARY—I am using your own words.
Hon. Mr. SHEWAN-I said “ who might HIS EXCELLENCY-You said "who might and will."
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL-Unless they are incompetent your remarks are not to the point. Hon. Mr. SHEWAN-I was looking to the future.
The COLONIAL SECRETARY-He also, Sir, accused the Council of passing legislation-
Hon. Mr. SHEWAN-I certainly rise to order, and object to the word " Bocuse. Did I accuse anybody P
HIS EXCELLENCY - So nearly that I cannot appreciate any difference.
Hon. Mr. SHEWAN-Very nearly, but I did not accuse. one
Hon. Mr. SHEWAN-I object to the principle. Hon. Dr. Ho KAI-The principle of the Bill is stated to facilitate the dealing with land in the New Territories, but I understand the Hon. Member opposite objected to clause in sub-section 4 of section 1, which gives the Government power to exempt any landowner, for good reasons, who wishes to be placed under the usual law of the Colony,
The COLONIAL SECRETARY—The Hon. Member referred to recent legislation on land as inequitable and unjust. That, sir, I say is not the case. The legislation gave power to appsal