102
SE
excess
allowance will be charged for as consumption." This, it is hoped, will conduce to the prevention of waste which is the chief object aimed at in this Bill, as it was also in that which it is intended to replace.
In periods of scarcity of water, the inter- mittent sys'em of supply will be put in force in the rider main" districts only and, as it will be possible to afford every t-neut a supply within a very brief period, it is believed that the necessary economy in the consumption will be effected without extending the system to the City generally. This will enable the occu piers of premises which are supplied by meter to enjoy a constant supply of water and it will also provide me ins for dealing with outbreaks of fire, us all the principal mains will be cons antly charged with water.
Until the "rider-mains" have been applied to a considerable portion of the City, it may be necessary to revert to the universal application of the intermittent system as hitherto, but it is hoped that, with their application over an ex- tended area, this will become unnecessary.
The COLONIAL SEJENTARY seconded. General GASCOIGNE-Before you put the question to the vote, sir, may I ask if this Bill has been submitted to Mr. Chadwick ?
H.E. the Governor-No. General GASCOIGNE-But has Mr. Chadwick seen the Bill P
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL—I think not. It is not necessary that he should, because the principle involved is the same as in the existing Ordinance.
General GASCOIGNE-I think, if I may be allowed to be in order, that it is only my duty to point out some of the remarks that were made to me by Mr. Chadwick last year just after the water famine You, sir, were away from the Colony on the occasion of the Coronation of His Majesty a we
The COLONIAL SECRETARY I do not wish to interrupt His Excellency but I may
state-
H.E. the GOVERNOR His Excellsacy the Major-General is in order
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL-I desire to in terrupt
The GOVERNOR --I would suggest to the hon. Attorney-General that he allow the hon. Major-General to speak on the question if whether this Bill should be read a first time, and after the hon. Major-General has spoken it will be for the attorney-General to make auy remark he may desire.
THE HONGKONG WEEKLY PRESS AND
Mr. Chadwick said to me that as when he made these reservoirs they looked a vast to him at that time-the Colony theu not being anything like the size it is now as regards population-he felt that perha ̧ s to throw upon the Acting Governor-which was not the same thing as the real Governor-the responsibility of a nupopular measure if it was perhaps not absolutely cessity. would be a hard ching; and be therefore recommended the Acting Governor of that day at to press it; and he told me he had only regretted that decision once and that WJS ever since. "Now," he said, "you have the famine прэп you. Everybody has suffered and now is the time to make this Ordinance to prevent wasto." He told me, ** General, as log as you do not positively prevent the waste of water that goes on you will never have sufficient water even though you may make Hongkong one vast reservoir, but I tell you that if you can check the waste that goes on in Chinese houses you will have sufficient water in ordinary seasons, in evary season, even without Bew res rvoirs. I came down very much impressed by that to the Council and there are many gentlemen on the Council to-day who will remember that when it was first proposed they wre averse to it They were of opinion that the supply should be one and the same for both Europeans and Chinese. The question was threshed out in committee of the Council and afterwards those who were at first against it came round and we passed the Ordinance that is now in the c urse of being altered and amend- ed; and all I can say is that I personally felt that the very ius gnificant part I look in it was a proud one bacause I felt that we had doue a thing for Hongkong which was a lasting benefit to the Colony. I am aware that the Se retary of States for the Colouies, as put in the objects and reasons of the Bill, has tele- graphed to your Excellency asking if no other way can be found? I respectfully submit that the answer should be, "No; for we know no other way to prevent waste but the way recom- mended by Mr. Chadwick, the expert you yourself sent out Ask his opinion, and we are prepared to abide by his opinion." If I may move a resolution, I move that the Bill be not read a first time.
The GOVE NOR-I venture to point out that before we can go farther in this discussion these observations of His Excellency the Major-General would more properly be made on the second reading. The Bill is really not before the Council at all until it is read a first time and it is impossible for the Council to know what is the meaning of the Bill until it is brought before them and read a first time. When the Bill comes on for second reading, then. I venture to suggest to His Excellency, would be the time for the observations that have now been offer d. The Bill is not yet before the Council at all. The first reading is always a matter of pro forma. Whea the Bill is brought on for so ond reading hon. members will have au opportunity of seeing and discus ing the Bill as brought lefors them.
Hon. K. SHEWAN-Sir, I would be willing to give way in this matter, but as I shall not be present at the next meeting of the Council I would ask y ur indulgence.
General GASCOIGNE-I will, if I may be allowed to. You, sir, were not in the Colouy last year-you were attending the coronation of His Majesty at the time of the water famine. I had the honour at that time of administering the Government in your absence, and the period of anxiety the Council and I went through at that time will be remembered by some of the gentlemen who are present here to-day, We began to look into the water question very early indeed in February so we were not caught napping in that respect, but the famine went on and on until-I am speaking from memory-the first week in May. We had an importation of cholera, which was imported, it is true, and it was a most anxious and serious business for me and for the Council to face the drought which was impending over us. 1 he Council gave me a free hand and assisted me in every possible way with advice aud counsel, and 1 am bound to say the public of Hongkong showed the most loyal patience and forbearance in bearing the terrible troubles that came upon them in consequence Then as our reservoirs became empty and after they were almost absolutely dry the rains came on by a dispensation of Providence. Mr. Chadwick, who had been with me practically the whole time when that pressure was over Hongkʊg, said to me what I wish to point out to the Council before this Bill goes any further. He said to me, "General, youwe wis to that part later on. With regard have got the opportunity of your life. When to th= sill, if you will allow me I should I came to Hongkong to make these reservoirs in Hongkong there was at that time an Officer Administering the Government like yourself. I proposed to that Officer that the water should be out off from Chinese tenement houses 80 as to prevent waste and this was the only measure to adopt to prevent this waste. The matter was discussed and it met with an enormous amount of opposition; and
HIS EXCELL NCY signified his cousout, and, Hon. Mr. SHEWAN proceeded-I was very pleased to hear the remarks that have fallen from your Excellency with regard to the position of matters and our being given time to consider the Bill in the second reading. At the last meeting of the Council I strongly objected to a Bill being rushed through the second reading without printing the amendments or giving the public time to read the Bill and con- sider it. I'd not know, bat I suppose that the intention in deciding that a Bill shou d be read
three times was that the Bill should be discussel and con d d three separate times. However,
like to second the motion of His Excellency Major General Gascoigns, with whose re- marks in making that motion I entirely agree. The Bill we had before as last year was very carefully considered, but we have not tried it. I do not think it is right that, after we had carefully considered and discussed and thoroughly threshed oat the question of the water supply of this Colony,
August 10, 1903.
which was certainly a very great evil_last year, we should have all our work undone on account of a fow Chinese agitators who, after all, are ouly led by the nose by a lot of clicks from architects offics, in whom
essed the old saying. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing "I think it is possible that better ways may he found, but way cot let us first try the hydrant system ? We know that Chines) coolies and other people like that will waste the water, while we who pay by the meter have to suffer. Let the Gorarumant first try that system; if it will not work in a cortain district, then it will ba time to consi ler other measures. I agree with Major-General Gascoigne that the mitter as very carefully considered and threshed out, and before we do anything more we ought to consider this scheme, especially as it is endorsed by the experts. I think we could have got more impar- tial xperts, but still, they were on the Govern ment side, and the Government ought not to go back on them now.
The COLONIAL SECRETARY-Sir, if I may be allowed to say so, with all respect to His Excellency and the hon. member who seconded his amen tment, I think the object of this Bill has been misapprehended; it is quite as much to stop waste as was that of the Bill which was introduced last year. The rider min system was first proposed by Mr. Chadwick himself with a view to-
Hou, R. SHEWAN –Sir, I think the Colonial Secretary is out of order.
The ATTORNEY-GENSBAL - The Colo.ial Secretary is quite in order.
-
Hon. Mr. SHEWAN — He seconded the motion and cannot speak again.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL-But he can speak on the subsequent motion. I made a motion, and the Colonial Secretary siconded; the hon. member oppo ite, H.E. Major-General Gascoigne, then made a subsequent motion, and
that also has bea secondod. The Colonial Secretary is entitled to speak on that motion, which is Ok sep rate and distinct one from the original motiou.
His EXCELLENCY ruled that the Colonial Secretary was in order, and,
The COLONIAL SECRETARY proceeded-The rider-main system was first proposed by Mr. Chadwick himself with a view to facilitating the distribution of water during the operation of the intermittent system. The rider- main system can be equally well adapted to the prevention of waste, and it is for that purpose that it is now sought to be introduced for the prevention of waste. It is simply, if I may so describe it in a few short words, a system of huge meters for blocks of buildings instead of separate meters for separate houses. Tue principle of the Bill was carefully considered by both Mr. Chadwick aud Professor Simpson, who, was here at the same time as Mr. Chadwick, and it has been a toptad and endorsed by both of these experts. I do not think, sir, that the suggestion of the hon. member who seconded the motion that this Colony should go to the expense of firs: introducing & street fountain system, will commond itself to this Council It will cost a great deal of money, and if as he suggests it is to be in the nature of an experiment, I fear the experiment would be a very expensive one. I repeat again, thy object of the Bill, the object we all have before
is the prevention of wast The experts, especially Mr. Chadwick, are of opinion that the waste coull be stopped by this system, the Government are strongly of that opinion, and
our local advisers hore ara also of the same opinion, and we trust that the hopes of His Excellency the General Officer Commsuding, that waste will be prevented, will be realised by this Bill as much as by the Bill which o fathered.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL - I hope the Council will at once reject this motion, which is one which, whatever it may be designed to do, will have the effect of stifling the discussion of a matter of the greatest interest to the Chinese in this Colony. The Chinese in this community are as a hundred to one or more, and they by an immense majority in a petition to the Secretary of State laid before him certain reasons which they believed ought to be laid before him to allow this Govern- ment to introduce a measure which would alter in some particulars the Water Bill wo passed last year. I say at once that neither