い
August 11, 1902.]
HONGKONG LEGISLATIVE
COUNCIL.
A meeting of the Legislative Council was held on the 8th inst. in the Council Cham- ter. Present:-
*
HIS EXCELLENCY THE OFFICER ADMINIS- TERING THE GOVERNMENT. Major-General Sir W. GASCOIGNE, K.C.M.G. (Commanding the Troops).
Hon. F. H. MAY (Colonial Secretary). Hon. Sir HENEY SPENCER BERKELEY. KNT. (Attorney-General).
Hon. A. M. THOMSON (Colonial Treasurer). Hon. Commander R. M. RUMSEY, R.N. (Harbour Master).
Hon. W. CHATHAM (Director of Public Works).
Hon. F. W. CLARK (Medical Officer of Health,}
Hon. Dr. HO KAI.
Hon. WEI A YUK.
Hon. C. S. SHARP.
Hon. C. W. DICKSON.
Hon. G. W. F. PLAYFAIR.
Hon. R. SHEWAN,
Mr. R. F. JOHNSTON (Acting Clerk of Councils).
FINANCIAL.
The COLONIAL SECRETARY laid on the table Financial Minutes (N(s. 36 and 37) and moved that they be referred to the Finance Committee. The COLONIAL TREASURER seconded, aud the motion was agreed to.
The COLONIAL SECRETARY laid on the table the report of the Finance Committee (No. 9) and moved its adoption.
The COLONIAL TREASURER seconded. He said-I should point out, sir, that the adoption of this report involves the passing of the reso- lution No. 4 on the agenda.
The resolution referred to was as follows: — "It is hereby resolved that all pensions paid in England from the Widows' and Orphans' Pen- sion Fund be paid at the rate of three shillings
the dollar, the difference between that rate and the rate of the day being made good out of the revenue of the Colony."
The motion was adopted.
PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT STAFF.
Hon. G. W. F. PLAYFAIR put the question of which he had given Lotice at the previous meeting Will the Honourable the Colonial Secretary stale whether the Report of the Commission on the Public Works Depart ment recommending su increase in the staff has been carried out in its entirety and if not, why not? In view of Mr. Chadwick's report
that "the Public Works staff is much under-
manned in every branch, both technical and clerical," aud in view of the fact that the new Ordinance now before the Council will vastly increase the work and responsibilities of the Public Works Department far beyond the re- quirements advised by the Commissiou, are the Government making arrangements for a still
further increase of the staff?
The COLONIAL SECRETARY said-The answer to the bon, member's question is as follows:- The whole of the staff recommended by the Commission which enquired into the Public Works Department has been recommended to the Secretary of State for the Colonies with the exception of one assistant engineer for maintenance work and one overseer for roads inside the City. The increase of staff rec.m- mended by the Commission was based on the assumption that a sum of nearly $800,00 (the amount appearing in this years Estimates) a year would be spent annually on public works extraordinary. With the large expenditure on water-works, part of which are being carried out by a private firm, it is not contemplated that the Colony will be able to spend as much as appears in this year's Estimates for public works 'exclusive of water-works. Therefore a smaller staff than what was recommended appears sufficient,
PAPERS.
CHINA OVERLAND TRADE REPORT.
A POINT OF ORDER. When No. 5 of the agenda came up, Hon. R. SHEWAN rose to a point of order. He said. No. 4 does not seem to have come up. The COLONIAL TREASI CER-I (xplained it. Hon. R. SHEWAN-Excuse me, I Im addressing the Pres dent of the Council, No. 4 does not seem to have come up yet.
HIS EXCELLENCY-The resolution, you mean. HOD. R. SHEWAN—Yes, sir.
HIS EXCELLENCY-I thought you heard that the Colonial Treasurer explained that the report of the Finance Committee included | the resolution in it.
Hou. R SHEWAN-No, sir; with regard to No. 4 I did not hear him say that. I had au ameud- ment to move to No. 4.
HIS EXCHILENCY-Well, I thought it was understood.
Hon. R. SHEWAN--It was not understeed by me, sir.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL We could go back to No. 4 after we dispose of this item (No. 5). HIS EXCELLENCY—Yes, we can go back to it. The Council then proceeded to consider No. 5 of the agenda,·
AN ORDINANCE O AMEND THE
RATING ORDINANCE, 1901.
105
are a good many Scotsmen round this table- (The COLONIAL TREASURES—Hear, hear)—and they will recollect that a great poet has said- "To gather gear by every wile That's justified by honour; Not for to hide it in a hedge,
Nor for a train attendant But for the glorious privilege
Of being independent." Now, sir. I do not think that this graut at all strengthens that principle; it is entirely sub- versive of the principle of independence, and tends to make a man, not independent, but dependent, and I submit that any man who deserves the name of man should be proud to support Lis own wife and children, ́aud not leave them dependent on the charity of this "Colony. With these remarks, sir, I beg to more the amendment I have already read.
Tou. G. W. F. PLAYFAIR seconded. The COLONIAL SECRETARY-I explained in Finance Committee that this question effected Civil servants, and that therefore they were not allowed to vote on it, and will not do so when the amendment is put With regard
to
to the remarks of the hon. member, he seems attack the whole system of pensions. These are peusiors for the widows and The ATTORNEY-GENERAL moved the first-orphans of public officers, and every public reading of the Bill.
The COLONIAL SECRETARY seconded, and the motion was agreed to.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL, then moved that the standing orders be suspended to allow the Bill to be read a second time.
The COLONIAL SECRETARY seconded, and the motion was agreed to.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL moved the second reading. He said-The objects and reasons are appended to the Bill. It is introduced in order simply to extend the boundaries of the City of Victoria for rating purposes. The objects and
as follows:-1 he object is to extend the southern and eastern boundaries of Victoria in order to include (1)| fenements up to 700 feet above the sea; tenements through which the existing Eastern boundary now runs.
reasons are
The COLONIAL SECRETARY Seconded the motion and it was agreed to.
officer joining the Service after a certain date Its got to contribute to the fund. The resolution before the Finance Committee means simply to enable these pensions to be paid in England at a certain rate of exchange. There is now ouly one such pen-ion payable, but it is impossible for me to tell how many be payable in the future and therefore I cannot give any indication of what sum will in future be involved, but I should imagine it will not be a very large one,
there
may
Hon, K. SHEWAN-Then, sir, I beg to give notice that I will ask at the next mee ing of | Council that the despatch from Mr. Chamber- lan to the Colonial Government, No. 33 of 1902, which has been laid on the table to-day, be published in the Gazette.
'T'L ATTORNEY-GENERAL· You withdraw the amendment you have already moved, do I understand?
Hon. R. SHEWAN-No, the amendment has
The Council went into Committee on the been seconded. Bill and considered it clause by clause.
On resuming, the Bill was afterwards read a third time and passed, on the motion of the AT- TORNEY-GENE. AL, seconded by the COLONIAL SECRETARY.
PENSIONS TO WIDOWS AND ORPHANS.
Reverting to the matter of the rate of 1ayment of pensious to the widows and orphans of deceased Civil servants of the
not
Colony, HIS EXCELLENCY, addressing the Hon. R. SHEWAN, said-I thought yon understood-I
beg your pardon for having spoken & little plainer-but I thought you understood that the Colonil
Treasurer mentioned that this item was also
included in the report of the Finance Com- mittee, and therefore if that were adopted I took it for grauted that we should adopt the whole thing. 1. think perhaps the best plan would be for you to move your amendment now.
4.
Hon. R. SHEWAN-Then, sir, I beg to move that the Government inform Mr. Secretary Chamberlai that while agreeing to the resolution, the unofficial members deprecate such leemosynary grants, and think that any assistance to tivil servants of this kind should take the form of an increase of salaries." I do rot oppose this resolution, for nobody has more sympathy than I for widows and orphans, but
I do regret the form this resolution takon In the first place, we have no informaties. as to how and why this fund is formed, who subscribe to it and who do not, whether all Civil servants subscribe to it or not, and why we should be asked 10 subscribe uch a large proportion as 1s. 3d. on the dollar, while Ceylon only pays 2d, on the rupee-about 12 per cent. In the second place, 1 do not see why the widows and orphans of the Civil servants of this Colony should be thrown on the charity of this Colony. We either pay our Civil servants properly or we do not, and if we do they should be able to put by enough to insure their lives for the benefit of their widows and orphans. If
We are not paying enough, we Lad better increase their salaries and be done with it. Now, there
The COLONIAL SECHETARY laid on the table the Report on the Health and Sanitary Condition of Hongkong for the year 1901; the Report of the Principal Civil Medical Officer for the year 1901: the Report on the Ass€ 85- meut for the year 1902-1903; and a paper on the Rate of Exchange for Payment of Pemicus i them under Widows' and Orphans' Fension Fund.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL-I thought you withdrew it.
Hou. R. SHEWAN-No, I have obtained no information in answer to my enquiries
HIS EXCELLENCY-1 he amendment that has been proposed by the hon. member is as follows: "That the Government inform Mr. Secretary Chamberlain that while agreeing to the resolution, the unofficial members deprecate such eleemosynary grants, and think that any assistance to Civil servants of this kind should take the form of au increase of salaries." the wording of this, I understand you agree to the resolution?
By
Hon. R. SHIWA? --Certainly, sir; I do not oppose the resolution. I said that at the beginning.
The CLONIAL TRE SURR-It is in the form of a rider to the resolution.
The HARBOUR M. 8`ER-Sir, I rise to order. I do not think the official members are able to rote on this.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL—The proper way would be for the unc fficial members Lo protest, or to add a rider. I do not know whether the point has ever arisen in this Council, but I know that in other Councils in which I have sat, and they have been very many, the protest was usually laid down in the
form of a despatch from the unofficial members.
.
Hos. Dr. Ho K▲-I think, sir, the practica of this Council is very much the same as has been represented by the Hon. Attorney- General. So far as this matter is concerned, I, the Senior Unofficial Member, have heard nothing of ic until this day, and in former times it has been the custom for the unofficial members to meet together and resolve over something of the kind and then notify it to the Governor as an expression of opicion. If the hon. member on my right wished to bring this matter forward I should have been pleased to consult with him.
Hon. G. W. F. PLAYFAIR-I speak on behalf of the hon. member en my right when I say that in apology we must plead being new members entirely ignorant of