December 30, 1899.]
"2.-Before the passing of Ordinance 15 of 1889 there were no laws on the subject o piers and wharves, though the construction of some had been sanctioned by Special Ordinance (18 and 19 of 1884.)
"3.-In March 1888 it was brought to the notice of the Government that the rents which were being paid by pier owners or lessees for the encroachment over the Crown foreshore or over the bed of the harbour were much too low and out of all proportion to the value of the piers. The question was consider. ed in Executive Council and it was decided that under Section 68 of Ordinance 15 of 1899 as amended by Ordinance 25 of 1891 a revised schedule should be drawn up comprising in- creased rates and a new form of agreement.
4-Owing to the representations of the pier cwners which were supported by the Hong: kong Chamber of Commerce, it was considered
advisable whilst raising the rents to reduce the rates fixed in the revised schedule.
5.—The representatives of the wharf and pier owners, whilst expressing themselves willing to pay the increased rents fixed in the revised schedule as amended rent, urge that compensa- tion should be paid to the owner of any pier, the removal of which is required on public grounds.
CHINA OVERLAND TRADE REPORT.
DANGEROUS GOODS O DINANCE,
The Bill entitled an Ordinanance to amend the Dangerous Goods Ordinance, 1873, was read a third time and passed.
THE BUMMONING OF CHINESE BY THE REGISTRAR-GENERAL.
The Bill entitled an Ordinance to provide for the summoning of Chinese before the Registrar. General was read a third time and passed.
THE ARMS ORDINANCE,
The next item on the sgenin was: -" Commit- tee on the Bill entitled an Ordinance to amend and consolidate the law relating to the carriage and possession of arms and ammunition."
The COLONIAL SECRETARY said with regard to this-With re.ard to the next item on the
received from the Secretary of the Chamber of ther postponed in order to allow the committee Commerce asking that this Bill may be still fur- Owing to the intervention of the Christmas bo- of the Chamber further time to consider it. lidays and the absence of certain members of the Committee of the Chamber has not had full op- portunity of giving the matter that considera think, sir, that the request for postponement is this item be discharged and the further consider- reasonable, and I would, therefore, suggest that ation of the Bill postponed for a fortuight.
tion which the Chamber considers it deserves. I
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I have named, and I submit that the general trade in arms-the export trade from this colony, as necessarily connected with the import trade into this colony-is a trade with which this colony and the laws of this colony ought not to be allowed to interfere, except in so far as such. interference may be necessary for the protection of our own interests. The trade in arms, from a battle-ship down to the smallest deadly weapon which is in use, is one of the most important trades carried on in Great Britain itself. We for every nation on the face of the earth: Our construct, manufacture, and fit out men-of-war great manufacturers turn out guns of every calibre and small arms ammunition of every description and of the largest and smallest
Orders of the Day. beg to inform Your Ex-description, and supply them unhindered by our of going to war with ourselves. No restriction own Government to every nation in the world, cellency and this Council that a letter has been
even to nations or people actually on the point
is placed on the trade in Great Britain itself, and international law plac-s absolutely no rest- riction on it whatever. The countries at war, the countries to whom the weapons and arms are exported, are left to look after their own interests, to "forbid the entry into their own
by craisers and other means, and if arms: countries of these arms and ammunition. They have got to protect themselves in times of war and ammunition are being improperly intro- duced into their respective countries to seise them. But there is no limitation whatever to the export of arms and ammunition from Great nition to the Philippine Islands and so on is uo Britain itself. The export of arins and ammu.
breach of any law existing in Great Britain. It is no breach of any English law to introduce them into the Philippines. It may be a breach by international law are left to protect them. of Spanish or American law, but the Americans
“6.—I have consulted the Acting Attorney- General on the question of compensation who advises that though the right of removal with-
The ACTING ATTORNEY-GENERAL-I would out compensation undoubtedly exists under the agreement between the Government and owners
ask your Fxcelleucy's leave to withdraw this of piers, a copy of which is attached, the Go-sir, that I have forwarded this afternoon to the item in the Orders of the Day. I may mention, vernment has never exercised that right hitherto, Secretary of the Chamber four copies of this and probably would never do so, as such a course would be inequitable, however legally four copies of additional amendments which thì Bil, four copies of proposed amendments, and justifiable, and, further, he points out that in the case of the removal of piers under the
Government propose to make in consequence Praya Reclamation Ordinance 16 of 1889, com-
of certain suggestions made by the learned Counsel who addressed us at the last meeting pensation was paid, which seems to create a precedent.
of the Council.
"7.-Some of the piers at present erected and some proposed to be erected are expensive structures, and it is pointed out that the right to remove them without compensation destroys their value as security, should it be necessary to utilise them or that purposé.
"I endeavoured to.. define the expression "Public purposes" but found it impossible to do so in a manner satisfactory to the owners. At present I do not see any purpose for which we should require to remove a pier, save Praya Reclamation, which is already provided for.
"8. I concur in the opinion of the Acting Attorney-General, but as the right of the Crown unquestionably exists to demand removal of piers without awarding any compensation, I do not consider myself entitled to surrender this right, without definite authority to 10 80. Ι have, therefore, the honour to request that you will favour me with an early decision on this matter and that, in view of the desirability of collecting the inore sed rents.as soon as possible. you will convey to me your reply by telegraph." I got a telegram in reply, but this is the despatch which followed:-
The item was accordingly disoliarged.
.ADJOURNMENT,
The Council then adjourned for a fortnight.
THE ARMS AND AMMUNITION BILL.
THE CASE FOR THE ARMS DEALERS. At the meeting of the Legislative Council ou Thursday. Dec. 21st, a Bill entitled an Ordinance to amend and consolidate the law relating to the carriage and possession of arms and ammunition passed its second reading. A petition against the Bill had been presented by certain dealers in arms in the colony, and Mr. J. J. Francis, Q.C, appeared to lay their views before the Council.
Sir,-I have the honour to acknowledge the receipt of your despatch No, 257 of the 8th, ultimo, submitting for my decision the question of surrendering the legal right of the Crowning I only represent directly the dealers in to demand the removal of piers and wharves erected on Crown' land within the waters of Hongkong, without awarding any compensation to the owners.
2.-I consider that it would not be advis. able to surrender the right, which I am advised Government undoubtedly possesses under the existing law, of demanding the removal of these structures without giving compensation, but it should not be rigorously insisted on under all circumstances, and each case as it arises should be judged on its merits.
"4-I have already informed you to the above effect in my telegram of the 13th, inst.' So you see, although the right is there, I do not think any Government would ever dream of removing an expensive pier for public pur- poses without giving compensation.
The Bill having passed through the com. mittee stage the Council resumed, and the Bill was read a third time and passed.
THE COMPANIES ORDINANCE,
The Bill entitled an Ordinance to amend the Companies Ordinance, 1877, passed through the committee stage and was read a third time
and passed.
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selves.
French settlements and to Japan and Korea. The same observation refers to the
There is certainly a slight difference with re- ference to China, but only a slight difference. My clients admit that certain restrictions are right and proper and just in this colony--- that the Government has the right, as matter of self-preservation, to impose such restraint or restriction. The Government ought, therefore to have the mesas of knowing what be- comes of the arms which come into the colony, and to have the means of restraining the sale of them to the Chinese in the colony and in the New Territories, and so far as the provisions of this Ordinance are reasonably necessary for such purposes my clients do not in the least degree ob- ject to them. With reference to China and the importation into and sale of arms in China, the Chinese Government ought to be left in precisely the same position as is any other Government. If the importation of arms into China is contraband, is forbidden by the laws of China: let the Chinese Government protect itself. We are only justified in interfering with the entry of arms into China in so far as those arms may be used by robbers``and thieves and pirates, as, for instance, in cer- tain portions of the West River at the present moment, in such a fashion as to be injurious to trade there. Wherever we find pirates
Mr. FRANCIS said Your Excellency, I ap pear here to-day under the provisions of No. 52 of the Standing Orders of the Legislative Coun- oil, which provides that:-"In any case where individual rights or interests of property may be peculiarly affected by any propose Bill, all parties interested may, upon petition for that purpose, and ou motion made, seconded, and carried, be board before the Council, or any Committee thereof, either in person, or by Counsel Though formally and strictly speak-attacking our trade it certainly would be wise and prudent for us to do all we possibly arms who are of Chinese nationality or Chinese can to prevent their being supplied with arms, race, I represent indirectly and necessarily all and that is the only reason which can be urged ̈ the arms dealers in the colony, because the ex- in support of the restrictions contained in this port trade, the import trade, and the retail trade Ordinance. But on the other hand the Chinese are so intimately connected as different branches | Government is entitled to purchase arms and of the same business that it is impossible has a right to do it. All honest and respect. that one of those branches should be injurions-able Chinese are entitled in the disturbed state ly affected without all the others suffering in of the country to carry arms and ammunition proportion. Now, sir, in the first place I venture for their own defence. When piraoy was so to submit for the consideration of the Council extremely rife in the neighbourhood of Hong- that the arms business is an extensive one. At kong in the 60's, some very stringent proposals the lowest estimate the annual value is balf a were made-I think by Sir Richard Graves million dollars. That was the estimate made MacDonnell-with a view to checking this a couple of years ago, and it must be piracy. Arms and ammunition were then carried more now. The arms trade carried on on all junks, and when the attempt was made to’ in the colony is carried on with Japan, disarm them there was a great outory, and it with Korea, with Chins, with the Philip had to be recognised that there were honest pine Islands, with Cochin-China, with Borneo, men as well as thieves, and that unlená and probably also with Siam. It is a very We were prepared to do what the Chinese extensive trade. The first point to which Government was unable to do put down the I ask the attention of the honourable Council pirates-the honest men must have the means is this, that the trade is divisible and divisible of defending themselves. Therefore it is clearly into two parts-the trade in arms carried | that from that time up to the present day all on in this colony itself and with the neighbour-vessels going out of this port are entitled as a ing mainland of China, and the trade which is matter of safety to carry such arms and amma. carried on from this port with the other countries nition as are reasonably necessary for their own
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