HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 12 July 1995 5255 OFFICIAL RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
Wednesday, 12 July 1995
The Council met at half-past Two o'clock
PRESENT
THE PRESIDENT
THE HONOURABLE SIR JOHN SWAINE, C.B.E., LL.D., Q.C., J.P.
THE CHIEF SECRETARY
THE HONOURABLE MRS ANSON CHAN, C.B.E., J.P.
THE FINANCIAL SECRETARY
THE HONOURABLE SIR NATHANIEL WILLIAM HAMISH MACLEOD, K.B.E., J.P.
THE ATTORNEY GENERAL
THE HONOURABLE JEREMY FELL MATHEWS, C.M.G., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE ALLEN LEE PENG-FEI, C.B.E., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE MRS SELINA CHOW LIANG SHUK-YEE, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE HUI YIN-FAT, O.B.E., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE MARTIN LEE CHU-MING, Q.C., J.P.
DR THE HONOURABLE DAVID LI KWOK-PO, O.B.E., LL.D., J.P. THE HONOURABLE NGAI SHIU-KIT, O.B.E., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE PANG CHUN-HOI, M.B.E.
THE HONOURABLE SZETO WAH
THE HONOURABLE TAM YIU-CHUNG
THE HONOURABLE ANDREW WONG WANG-FAT, O.B.E., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE LAU WONG-FAT, O.B.E., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE EDWARD HO SING-TIN, O.B.E., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE RONALD JOSEPH ARCULLI, O.B.E., J.P.
5256 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 12 July 1995 THE HONOURABLE MARTIN GILBERT BARROW, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE MRS PEGGY LAM, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE MRS MIRIAM LAU KIN-YEE, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE LAU WAH-SUM, O.B.E., J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE LEONG CHE-HUNG, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE MRS ELSIE TU, C.B.E.
THE HONOURABLE PETER WONG HONG-YUEN, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE ALBERT CHAN WAI-YIP
THE HONOURABLE VINCENT CHENG HOI-CHUEN, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE MOSES CHENG MO-CHI
THE HONOURABLE MARVIN CHEUNG KIN-TUNG, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE CHEUNG MAN-KWONG
THE HONOURABLE CHIM PUI-CHUNG
REV THE HONOURABLE FUNG CHI-WOOD
THE HONOURABLE FREDERICK FUNG KIN-KEE THE HONOURABLE TIMOTHY HA WING-HO, M.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE MICHAEL HO MUN-KA
DR THE HONOURABLE HUANG CHEN-YA
THE HONOURABLE SIMON IP SIK-ON, O.B.E., J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE LAM KUI-CHUN
DR THE HONOURABLE CONRAD LAM KUI-SHING, J.P. THE HONOURABLE EMILY LAU WAI-HING
THE HONOURABLE LEE WING-TAT
THE HONOURABLE ERIC LI KA-CHEUNG, J.P.
THE HONOURABLE FRED LI WAH-MING
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 12 July 1995 5257 THE HONOURABLE MAN SAI-CHEONG
THE HONOURABLE STEVEN POON KWOK-LIM
THE HONOURABLE HENRY TANG YING-YEN, J.P.
THE HONOURABLE TIK CHI-YUEN
THE HONOURABLE JAMES TO KUN-SUN
DR THE HONOURABLE SAMUEL WONG PING-WAI, M.B.E., J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE PHILIP WONG YU-HONG
DR THE HONOURABLE YEUNG SUM
THE HONOURABLE HOWARD YOUNG, J.P.
THE HONOURABLE ZACHARY WONG WAI-YIN
DR THE HONOURABLE TANG SIU-TONG, J.P.
THE HONOURABLE CHRISTINE LOH KUNG-WAI
THE HONOURABLE ROGER LUK KOON-HOO
THE HONOURABLE ANNA WU HUNG-YUK
THE HONOURABLE JAMES TIEN PEI-CHUN, O.B.E., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE ALFRED TSO SHIU-WAI
THE HONOURABLE LEE CHEUK-YAN
ABSENT
THE HONOURABLE JAMES DAVID McGREGOR, O.B.E., I.S.O., J.P.
IN ATTENDANCE
MR MICHAEL LEUNG MAN-KIN, C.B.E., J.P.
SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION AND MANPOWER
MR MICHAEL SUEN MING-YEUNG, C.B.E., J.P.
SECRETARY FOR HOME AFFAIRS
MR RONALD JAMES BLAKE, J.P.
SECRETARY FOR WORKS
5258 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 12 July 1995
MR JAMES SO YIU-CHO, O.B.E., J.P.
SECRETARY FOR RECREATION AND CULTURE
THE HONOURABLE MICHAEL SZE CHO-CHEUNG, I.S.O., J.P. SECRETARY FOR THE CIVIL SERVICE
MR HAIDER HATIM TYEBJEE BARMA, I.S.O., J.P. SECRETARY FOR TRANSPORT
MR DONALD TSANG YAM-KUEN, O.B.E., J.P.
SECRETARY FOR THE TREASURY
MR NICHOLAS NG WING-FUI, J.P.
SECRETARY FOR CONSTITUTIONAL AFFAIRS
MR MICHAEL DAVID CARTLAND, J.P.
SECRETARY FOR FINANCIAL SERVICES
MR DOMINIC WONG SHING-WAH, O.B.E.,J.P.
SECRETARY FOR HOUSING
MRS KATHERINE FOK LO SHIU-CHING, O.B.E., J.P. SECRETARY FORHEALTH AND WELFARE
MR BOWEN LEUNG PO-WING, J.P.
SECRETARY FOR PLANNING, ENVIRONMENT AND LANDS
MRS ELIZABETH MARGARET BOSHER, J.P.
SECRETARY FOR ECONOMIC SERVICES
MRS REGINA IP LAU SUK-YEE, J.P.
SECRETARY FOR TRADE AND INDUSTRY
MR KENNETH JOSEPH WOODHOUSE, J.P.
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY
THE DEPUTY SECRETARY GENERAL
MR LAW KAM-SANG
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 12 July 1995 5259 PAPERS
The following papers were laid on the table pursuant to Standing Order 14(2): Subject
Subsidiary Legislation L.N. No.
Schedule of Routes (China Motor Bus Company)
Order 1995 .................................................................................. 310/95
Swimming Pools (Regional Council) (Amendment)
(No.2) Bylaw 1995...................................................................... 311/95
Employees Retraining Ordinance (Amendment of
Schedule 4) Notice 1995 ............................................................. 312/95
Builders' Lifts and Tower Working Platforms
(Safety) Ordinance (23 of 1995) (Commencement)
Notice 1995................................................................................. 313/95
Motor Vehicles Insurance (Third Party Risks)
(Amendment) Ordinance 1995 (46 of 1995)
(Commencement) Notice 1995.................................................... 314/95
Employees' Compensation (Amendment) (No.2)
Ordinance 1995 (47 of 1995) (Commencement)
Notice 1995................................................................................. 315/95
Official Languages (Authentic Chinese Text)
(Crimes Ordinance) Order........................................................... (C)49/95
Sessional Papers 1994-95
No.103 — Kadoorie Agricultural Aid Loan Fund Report
for the period 1 April 1994 to 31 March 1995
No.104 — J.E. Joseph Trust Fund Report for the period 1
April 1994 to 31 March 1995
No.105 — Report of the Legislative Council Panel on
Administration of Justice and Legal Services
Concerning the Briefing Out Costs in the
Bumiputra Malaysia Finance Limited Case
June 1995
5260 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 12 July 1995
No.106 — Statement of Accounts for the Customs and
Excise Service Welfare Fund for the year
1994-95
No.107 — Pneumoconiosis Compensation Fund Board
1994 Annual Report
No.108 — Hong Kong Provisional Airport Authority
Annual Report 1994-95
No.109 — Report on the Administration of the
Immigration Service Welfare Fund from 1
April 1994 to 31 March 1995 prepared by the
Director of Immigration
No.110 — Report of the Subcommittee on Proposed
Legislation on Wong Wai Tsak Tong
Legislative Council Panel on Planning,
Lands and Works March 1995
ADDRESSES
Report of the Legislative Council Panel on Administration of Justice and Legal Services Concerning the Briefing Out Costs in the Bumiputra Malaysia Finance Limited Case June 1995
MR SIMON IP: Mr President, on behalf of the Legislative Council Panel on Administration of Justice and Legal Services, I have the honour to table the Panel's report on the study of the briefing out costs in the Bumiputra Malaysia Finance Limited (BMFL) case.
The study was initiated as a result of a revelation in November last year of a substantial amount of fees paid to a former legal officer of the Legal Department. Since then, the Panel has held eight meetings, including six public meetings, to look into the background of the case.
This report sets out the circumstances surrounding the briefing out and the Panel's views on the responsibility of the persons concerned. The Panel has also made a series of recommendations on how the systems in the Department could be tightened up to improve the management of public funds.
Mr President, it is not my intention this afternoon to go over all the conclusions and recommendations of the Panel. However, I think it would be appropriate for me to highlight some of the Panel's findings and the main recommendations.
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 12 July 1995 5261
The Panel does recognize the need for briefing out by the Legal Department to private practitioners. Nevertheless, the manner in which the BMFL case had been briefed out has cast serious doubts on the systems then in place in the Department. There was little concern for accountability in the spending of public money, no checks and balances in the decision-making process, a lack of budgetary control and review mechanisms, and an overall cavalier attitude towards financial management.
The Panel finds it hard to accept that such a significant amount of public money should have been spent in such a manner, and that this should have taken place in a government department where the administration of justice is its prime concern. The Panel is concerned with the adverse effect which the handling of the case would have on the morale of the 900 staff members of the Department and on the public image of the Department. The Panel concluded that both the Attorney General and the former Director of Public Prosecutions should share responsibility for the failure to contain the briefing out costs on this case and the failure to exercise budgetary control over the use of public money.
The Panel has made a number of recommendations in major areas where improvements are needed. The Panel believes that the Administration should take concrete steps to ensure that the Department is put under stronger leadership and more effective and competent management. This should then be reinforced by injecting into the departmental management a stronger sense of cost and accountability. The Chamber Manager's role in the control and briefing out vote also requires strengthening. In addition, the Attonery General should arrange for all briefed-out cases to be reviewed periodically to ensure better cost control. He should keep the Panel informed about the effectiveness of the improvement measures introduced earlier this year. I urge the Administration to expedite the implementation of the Panel's recommendations.
Mr President, the Legal Department has recently set up two working parties, one to review the briefing out system and the other to examine the decision-making process in the Prosecutions Division pursuant to the motion debate held in this Council on 7 June 1995. It is to be hoped that these working parties' recommendations, coupled with the recommendations of the Panel's report, would bring a more efficient, effective and accountable department.
Mr President, I wish to emphasize that this report has no relevance to the legal issues of the BMFL case. The focus of the Panel has been exclusively on management aspects in the context of public money costs controls.
I wish to express my gratitude to Members of the Panel, to all persons who provided information to the Panel, and to the Legal Adviser and staff of the Legislative Council Secretariat for their assistance throughout the Panel's Study.
Thank you, Mr President.
5262 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 12 July 1995 Hong Kong Provisional Airport Authority Annual Report 1994-95
FINANCIAL SECRETARY: Mr President, in accordance with section 10 of the Provisional Airport Authority Ordinance, the Annual Report and audited accounts of the Provisional Airport Authority for the year ended 31 March 1995 are tabled today. As in previous years, the Report contains a detailed review of the Authority's activities covering events up to June this year.
The Report details further intense activity by the Authority in the development of Hong Kong's new airport. Good progress has been made in construction, operational planning and negotiation with private sector investors on the provision of essential airport support services. I would like to take this opportunity to thank the Board, the management and the staff of the Authority for their very hard work over the year.
The year under review also saw a number of positive developments on the institutional arrangements under discussion between the British and the Chinese sides of the Airport Committee of the Sino-British Joint Liaison Group. These include the agreement reached on overall financing, the arrangement for the granting of the airport island to the Authority, the Airport Authority Bill and, recently, the very welcome agreement on the Financial Support Agreement for the airport and air cargo franchises.
The resumption of the Second Reading debate on the Airport Authority Bill is now scheduled for 19 July. I very much hope that the Bill will be supported by Members, which will mean that this Report will in fact be the last one issued by the provisional body. More importantly, with the enactment of the Airport Authority Ordinance, the Authority will be able to keep up the momentum of work.
Looking back, I recall that when I first took up the chairmanship of the Provisional Airport Authority in September 1991, Chek Lap Kok was only a 302-hectare granite outcrop with its tiny neighbour, Lam Chau, nearly 2 km away. The Provisional Airport Authority then had a very modest staff establishment. We have moved a long way forward since then. With the formation of the airport island, the passenger terminal building rising steadily from its foundations and work commencing on the southern runway, the physical progress is there for all to see. At the same time, the Authority is building up its organization and staff for the tasks ahead. The focus increasingly will shift from construction to operational and commercial planning.
It gives me mixed feelings to leave the helm of this major project at this juncture. I am glad that past uncertainties are behind us. Nevertheless, with a project of this size, the Authority will be facing more challenges ahead. I have no doubt that it will meet them admirably and will move full speed ahead to prepare for airport opening in April 1998.
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 12 July 1995 5263 PRESIDENT: Mr Albert CHAN, a short question for elucidation only of the statement.
MR ALBERT CHAN (in Cantonese): Mr President, I most welcome this report from the Government. It is because, compared with past reports, the present one shows some improvement in terms of transparency. But l wonder whether the Government can let the public have more information, that is to say, in relation to remuneration payable to members of the board of directors. Page 62 of this document sets out the number of members in order of ranking and income. But it makes no mention of other allowances, such as housing allowance and other fringe benefits, enjoyed by these members. The public is thus unable to get a full picture of their actual remuneration. Could the Government let us know more of the actual remuneration and fringe benefits of these people ?
PRESIDENT: The question goes simply to elucidation of the statement, Mr Albert CHAN. You are asking for elucidation of the report.
Report of the Subcommittee on Proposed Legislation on Wong Wai Tsak Tong Legislative Council Panel on Planning, Lands and Works March 1995
MR ANDREW WONG (in Cantonese): Mr President, when I moved at the Legislative Council Sitting on 5 July 1995 that the Block Crown Lease (Cheung Chau) Bill be read the second time, I indicated and gave notice that I would table today, 12 July 1995, the Report of the Subcommittee on Proposed Legislation on Wong Wai Tsak Tong appointed by the Legislative Council Panel on Planning, Lands and Works. With your consent, Mr President, I now table the Report.
The Subcommittee was established in accordance with a decision of the Legislative Council Panel at its meeting held on 15 November 1994. During the meeting, the Legislative Council Members were briefed on the Government's legislative proposals to resolve the long-standing dispute between Wong Wai Tsak Tong and its sub-lessees. In view of the very long and complex history of the case, and its implications on the private land titles on Cheung Chau, the Panel dicided to form a Subcommittee to monitor the progress of the proposed legislation.
The Subcommittee's terms of reference was to monitor the progress of the proposed legislation to regulate the relationship between Wong Wai Task Tong and its sublessees.
5264 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 12 July 1995 The membership of the Subcommittee was as follows:
Dr Honourable TANG Siu-tong, JP as Chairman
Honourable Albert CHAN Wai-yip as Deputy Chairman
Honourable CHIM Pui-chung as Member
Honourable Alfred TSO Shiu-wai as Member
Three non-panel members, namely Honourable TAM Yiu-chung, Honourable Andrew WONG, OBE, JP and Honourable Wing-tat, also participated in the work of the Subcommittee.
The Subcommittee conducted a total of five meetings between 9 December 1994 and 8 February 1995 to collect relevant information from government officials, representatives of the Cheung Chau Rural Committee, the Union of Cheung Chau Residents and Owners, and Wong Wai Tsak Tong. Its findings and recommendations are presented in Chapter VIII of this Report. The Report was finalized by the Subcommittee on 28 February 1995 and was made public and submitted to the Legislative Council Panel on Planning, Lands and Works and the House Committee for approval in March. It is now tabled at this Council.
Thank you, Mr President.
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS
Localization Programme of Mass Transit Railway Corporation
1. DR SAMUEL WONG asked (in Cantonese): In his reply to a Legislative Council question asked on 10 March 1993, the Secretary for Transport stated that the Mass transit Railway Corporation (MTRC) and the Kowloon Canton Railway Corporation had adopted a policy of localization and that the two corporations had offered training programmes for their staff and drawn up succession plans to ensure that local talents were trained to meet the objectives of the corporations. The Secretary for Transport further stated that the two corporations would continue with this policy. In this connection, will the Government inform this Council whether it is aware of the progress which the MTRC has made in localizing its senior management, particularly the salaried directors apart from its Chairman?
SECRETARY FOR TRANSPORT: Mr President, apart from the Chairman of the Mass Transit Railway Corporation (MTRC), who is appointed by the Governor under section 4 of the MTRC Ordinance, all other appointments are a matter for the Corporation itself to determine. In this respect, the Corporation now has a clear-cut policy of appointing suitably-qualified local candidates for vacancies which may arise. The Corporation will only resort to overseas
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 12 July 1995 5265
recruitment when local candidates are not available. Indeed, in keeping with the principle of this policy, the MTRC has, since December 1993 offered totally equal terms to new employees, regardless of whether they are recruited locally or from overseas.
As regards progress in localizing its top management, the most significant step taken is that, as Honourable Members know, in April this year a local candidate was recruited and appointed to fill the position of Chairman of the Corporation. Apart from the Chairman, it is a fact that at present only one of the seven Executive Directors is a local appointee.
It should be noted that all the Executive Directors and by far the majority of the employees in managerial and professional posts have been engaged on permanent terms of service. Under the Corporation's localization policy, expatriates who leave the service on retirement or for other reasons will be replaced as far as possible by locals who have the necessary qualifications and experience. In this respect, one of the expatriate Directors will be retiring in the middle of next year, and the Corporation's firm intention is to appoint a local replacement.
DR SAMUEL WONG (in Cantonese): Mr President, the MTRC has been in operation for nearly 20 years. But it will not be until mid next year that a second local salaried director will be appointed. This sufficiently reflects that the MTRC has been saying one thing but doing another in relation to the training of local talents and technology transfer. At present, among the second echelon, particularly in the engineering department, over 70% of the posts are filled by expatriates. Could I ask the Secretary for Transport, who sits on the Board of Directors, what measure has he in mind to deal with this situation?
SECRETARY FOR TRANSPORT: Mr President, I think it has to be recognized that the MTRC is a hands-on and a very dynamic organization. And I think Members will agree and accept that it is reputedly one of the most successful railway systems in the world and indeed much credit for this goes to the Chairman, both past and present, and to the Directorate team. Now I think all the Executive Directors have extensive knowledge in their respective fields. The MTRC must continue to draw on their knowledge. We have got the Airport Railway which is being planned and built and we have got the Tseung Kwan O extension which is part of our Railway Development Strategy.
As I have explained in my main reply, the Executive Directors have been engaged on permanent terms of conditions of service and I believe it would, firstly, be wrong to prematurely terminate their services simply for the sake of localization but more importantly, secondly, it is the interests of the railway system in Hong Kong and the MTRC that we have got to bear in mind. They have done a good job. The Corporation's policy has been very clearly stated and insofar as the Board is concerned, there is a special panel headed by one of
5266 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 12 July 1995
the Board members which does look at localization policy and certainly future appointments to senior positions will be considered by this Board.
MR ALBERT CHAN (in Cantonese): Mr President, it is believed that the civil service localization policy will be fully implemented next year. But it could be said that the localization plans for the MTRC and the Kowloon-Canton Railway Corporation, two of the largest corporations, are far from being realized. I feel that this is a total failure and an affront to locally trained professionals. Could I ask the Government if it has formulated any specific plans or policies as to when these two large corporations will fully implement their localization plans? And will there be a basic lower limit to the effect that at a certain point in time no less than a certain percentage of senior staff must be local appointees?
SECRETARY FOR TRANSPORT Mr President, as I have explained, apart from the position of the Chairman, the Corporation determines its own appointments. In this respect I do not think it is helpful to artificially impose a time limit on when and what percentage of senior posts should be localized. Insofar as the senior establishment is concerned, of the 593 managers and professional members, including the Directorate staff, 125 are expatriates. Although, of course, six of the seven Directorate appointees are expatriate officers at first, there is a clear-cut policy, as I have explained, that as and when vacancies arise, preference will be given to local candidates, but subject to the condition that they are fully qualified.
Indeed in recent recruitment exercises, in building up the establishment for the Airport Railway, an attempt, a very conscious attempt was made to recruit more local officers but it was found that there were insufficient qualified candidates who came forward and could be appointed. Mr President, I want to assure Honourable Members that the Corporation does realize the need to localize, but I think this has got to be taken in steps.
MRS MIRIAM LAU: Mr President, in paragraph three of the main answers, it was pointed out that expatriates who leave the service on retirement will be replaced by locals who have the necessary qualifications and experience. The running of railways is a very specialized field and qualifications and experience do not come by overnight. In this regard, is there a particular programme by the Corporation whereby potential successors are identified and actually put in the learner driver's seat to learn to drive? Is there a programme in which such training is being carried out?
SECRETARY FOR TRANSPORT: Mr President, in 1992 a special section has been established in the Human Resources Division of the MTRC to undertake succession planning and training and certainly one of the priorities is to develop
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 12 July 1995 5267
local senior managers to give them the requisite experience and they are given hands-on experience.
Industrial Protective Equipment
2. MF FRED LI asked (in Cantonese): At present, workers can easily purchase industrial protective equipment such as dust masks, goggles, helmets and other items in the open market. However, the quality of such protective equipment is of uneven standard, and some of these items cannot even meet the required safety standards. In view of this, will the Government inform this Council:
(a) whether it has conducted regular tests on the quality of various items of industrial protective equipment available in the open market to check if they meet the required safety standard; if so, what the details are; if not, why not;
(b) what specific measures the Government has put in place to educate factory owners, site contractors and workers on how to choose and use protective equipment which meets the required safety standard; and
(c) what interim and long-term measures does the Government have to monitor both the manufacturers and the retailers, so as to curb the indiscriminate selling of protective equipment which does not meet the required safety standard ?
SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION AND MANPOWER (in Cantonese): Mr President,
(a) The Occupational Safety and Health Council (OSHC) commissions tests on industrial protective equipment to see if they meet specified safety standards. Recent examples of such tests are those on goggles, spectacles and face shields. The OSHC also has plans to conduct more tests on personal protective equipment.
(b) The Labour Department promulgates approved personal protective equipment to protect the health and safety of workers and provides information and advice to factory proprietors, contractors and workers on approved and suitable equipment.
Under the Factories and Industrial Undertakings Ordinance, it is the duty of every factory proprietor and contractor to procure approved or suitable types of protective equipment for his employees and to provide information, training and supervision to them on the proper use of these equipment. The Labour
5268 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 12 July 1995
Department has published a large number of pamphlets, leaflets, brochures and posters on the need, selection and use of such equipment.
The Labour Department's Industrial Safety Training Centre organizes safety training courses on various aspects of industrial safety including the proper use of protective equipment. The OSHC also organizes training courses on personal protective equipment.
The Information Services Department, the Labour Department and the OSHC run annual series of promotion and publicity activities on industrial safety. The proper use of personal protective equipment is always an important feature of these activities.
(c) The Labour Department at present controls the purchase and use of sub standard protective equipment at the user's end through enforcement of the Factories and Industrial Undertakings Ordinance. When a sub-standard personal protective equipment is found in use in an industrial undertaking or on a construction site, the proprietor or contractor concerned will be given appropriate advice and suitable warning and, if necessary, prosecuted for contravening the relevant regulations.
In the longer term, the vigorous enforcement of the Factories and Industrial Undertakings Ordinance, together with sustained promotion and publicity campaigns on the use of proper protective equipment, should eliminate from the market those items of equipment which fall below required industrial safety standards.
MR FRED LI (in Cantonese): Mr President, in paragraph (c) of the main reply, the Secretary clearly stated that the purchase and use of substandard protective equipment at the user's end are controlled through enforcement of the Factory and Industrial Undertakings Ordinance. But 1 have read some of the provisions in the said Ordinance and
found that they only require proprietors to provide suitable protective equipment without explaining what "suitable" really means. Take, for instance, the dust mask which is used by many workers in the course of road construction or other works. It can be readily purchased at any metalware shop. But that kind of dust mask is ineffective. Tests conducted by us have proved that it is ineffective. This kind of dust mask that I have before me, however, is effective. I have also tried it on myself. This is the sort of mask that is suitable. In other words, only tested masks found to be effective can be said to be suitable. The problem is that masks purchased at random by workers at any street shop are basically of little help to them. Can such masks be said to be suitable? The said Ordinance does not define what is meant by "suitable". Could I therefore ask the Secretary if he would review the question of the so-called suitable protective equipment as referred to in the said Ordinance and specify which sort of equipment would meet the required
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 12 July 1995 5269
standard so as to provide genuine protection to workers and lessen the chance of their contracting occupational diseases?
SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION AND MANPOWER (in Cantonese): Mr President, let me perhaps explain the provisions of the existing regulations. Currently, the Labour Department has promulgated 12 sets of detailed regulations specifying the safety standards of personal protective equipment. Of these sets of regulations, five specify that users must only use equipment approved by the Commissioner for Labour. The other seven sets specify the sort of equipment that can only be used under appropriate circumstances. These regulations, however, are rather flexible. The reason is that, in certain circumstances, we need to have particularly clear and unequivocal provisions in relation to, for instance, face shields to protect workers from inhaling asbestos dust which must be approved by the Commissioner for Labour. This is also the case with goggles, spectacles, face shields and ear plugs which must likewise be subject to clearly spelt out requirements. But, in relation to safety helmets, safety belts and ordinary dust masks, the applicable regulations import a certain degree of flexibility because we want manufacturers to design equipment that meets international standards for sale in the market place.
Of course, we must understand that if every matter need to be personally approved by the Commissioner for Labour, it would be a waste of time and public money. Therefore, I think there is no such need. But if the need should arise, we would of course consider giving more specific instructions having regard to individual cases. If, in certain circumstances, the need for approval arises, we will surely consider reviewing the matter.
DR LEONG CHE-HUNG: Mr President, we are being told that the Labour Department is empowered by the Factories and Industrial Undertakings Ordinance to ensure that these industrial protective equipment are up to standard. I wonder if the Administration can inform this Council whether they have machinery for spot-checking these industrial protective equipment and if so, how many or what is the usual ratio that we see substandard equipment in use?
SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION AND MANPOWER: Mr President, I think the powers under the Factories and Industrial Undertakings Ordinance provided to the Commissioner for Labour have been quite adequate to safeguard the enforcement of such equipment. Apart from laying down the requirements for the equipment concerned, as I mentioned earlier, in some cases these equipment require the approval of the Commissioner. In all cases, the Labour Department staff will of course inspect the factories and industrial undertakings concerned and do spot-checking from time to time to ensure that such equipment is used to satisfy the safety standards.
5270 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 12 July 1995
Again, in the longer term, we intend also to look at the need to better liaise with the manufacturers concerned and this is in the context of the protection of consumers in Hong Kong. Later this year, there will be a new law in place in the Consumer Goods Safety Ordinance which covers, among other things, the safety standards of such equipment. I am sure that we will work closely with the Customs and Excise Department to ensure that such cases are spotted and prosecutions taken whenever necessary.
MR TAM YIU-CHUNG (in Cantonese): Mr President, paragraph (a) of the Government's reply states that there are plans to conduct more tests on personal protective equipment. At present, the authorities in the United Kingdom, United States, China or Japan, after conducting tests on personal protective equipment, will affix a label on the equipment to let workers know that it meets Government's standards. Will the Government consider adopting this method of affixing labels to make it easier for members of the public to distinguish good from substandard equipment?
SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION AND MANPOWER (in Cantonese): Mr President, I already mentioned a while ago that the OSHC had conducted tests on some of the safety equipment, such as goggles, spectacles and face shields. I believe the OSHC will consider this useful suggestion. We shall study the matter to see if labels need to be affixed so that users will set their mind at easing when using the equipment.
MR MICHAEL HO (in Cantonese): Mr President, I would like to follow up on the supplementary question asked by the Honourable Fred LI. A while ago the Secretary said that the existing Ordinance imported a considerable degree of flexibility. To my way of thinking, the degree of flexibility is too great. At present, apart from some approved equipment, most of the so-called suitable equipment is not clearly defined at all. It is precisely because of a lack of clear definition that the so-called suitable equipment often fails to protect the health of workers. Mr President, could I ask the Secretary whether, as a matter of policy, the Government will instruct the department concerned to give clear definitions and set clear standards as soon as possible in respect of these categories of so called suitable equipment in order to enable workers to buy the right equipment that can protect their health?
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 12 July 1995 5271
SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION AND MANPOWER (in Cantonese): Mr President, many items of personal protective equipment, such as aprons, gloves and boots, need not be subject to specific safety requirements. These items can be dealt with flexibly and the public can buy various brands of them. There is no need for us to give specific definitions in respect of these. However, in certain circumstances, we need specific definitions, for instance, in respect of masks to prevent the inhalation of asbestos dust which must be subject to compulsory and more specific requirements. All this will depend on circumstances. If the specifications of every item were listed out, the printed pages may come to a thickness of one foot. This would not be practicable. Therefore, our target is that the Government will ensure that the equipment meets international standards. The Government has a complete name list of suppliers for reference by factory proprietors and contractors. They can follow the name list and buy the equipment they consider to be suitable and conforming to specifications. I think this already constitutes very clear instructions.
MR PETER WONG: Mr President, for workers who must work on our busy and highly polluted roads, how effective are these dust masks or face shields against environmental pollution ?
SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION AND MANPOWER: Mr President, I am sure Mr WONG would know better than I do the effectiveness of such masks on protection against dust. I would certainly welcome a particular test on such equipment, if this has not been done, and I look forward to the results of such tests to see whether this is acceptable and if not, how to improve that.
Sea Dredging Works
3. REV FUNG CHI-WOOD asked (in Cantonese): In order to cope with the new airport project and other reclamation works, the Government has carried out large-scale dredging of sea sand in Hong Kong waters, and plans to continue with such operations. As such dredging works will cause tremendous damage to marine ecology, will the Government inform this Council:
(a) of the volume of sea sand obtained from dredging since 1991 and the volume expected to be dredged in the coming few years; whether an assessment has been made on the damage caused by such operation to the marine ecology of Hong Kong; If so, what the results are;
(b) of the details of purchasing sand from China at present, the progress made so far in dredging sea sand in Chinese territorial waters, and the cost of such sand in comparison with that dredged in Hong Kong waters;
5272 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 12 July 1995
(c) whether consideration will be given to using construction wastes or earth excavated from the hillside as the filling material for reclamations; and
(d) why such reclamation works rely on sea sand dredged in local waters and not on other filling materials supplied locally or abroad?
SECRETARY FOR WORKS: Mr President, I would like to point out, first of all, that dredging of marine sand does not cause tremendous damage to the marine ecology, as alleged in the question. So far, we have dredged less than 2.5% of Hong Kong's seabed area, and there has generally been little overall effect on the marine ecosystem of Hong Kong. I will answer the four-part question as follows.
(a) The estimated volume of marine sand dredged between 1992 and end 1995 is about 251 million cum. Figures for 1991 are unavailable. This is approximately equivalent to the material available from 14 quarries each the size of Anderson Road Quarry, scarring our visible hillsides. It is estimated that a total of 216 million cum of marine sand will be required up to 2000. We plan to meet this future need by supply from Hong Kong and China.
The area of seabed that has been subjected to the impact of dredging and mud disposal, represents approximately less than 2.5% and 1.5% respectively of the total area of seabed within the borders of Hong Kong. All marine borrowing and disposal activities are subject to Evironmental Impact Assessments and strict controls. Seabed surveys have established that apart from the limited areas directly involved, the seabed ecosystem is essentially unaffected. For the areas actually subjected to dredging, these are restored to original seabed level by controlled mud dumping. Recolonization starts almost straight away, and the newly deposited seabed mud supports an early stage ecosystem after a few months.
(b) In the past two years, some 12 million cu m of marine fill materials were obtained by contractors from sources outside Hong Kong. On 7 July 1995, Members approved funds for the commencement of the Fill Management Study phase VI. One of the key elements of this study will be to continue the investigation of potential fill sources outside Hong Kong, and available for import into Hong Kong. Contractors importing marine sand from China are subject to licence conditions, as well as needing to enter into commercial arrangements, involving suppliers and the Chinese authorities. The cost will vary with transportation distance, site conditions, operational constraints and market price fluctuations. The fact that imported fill is being increasingly used by contractors demonstrates
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 12 July 1995 5273
that cost can be comparable or perhaps lower than equivalent sourcing from Hong Kong.
(c) Suitable construction waste and land-based fill is used for our reclamations. For example, the reclamations at Aldrich Bay and Tseung Kwan O in part are currently being formed using material deposited by controlled public dumping. 40% of the platform for the new airport at Chek Lap Kok was formed from marine sand, and the balance from land excavation.
Land borrow activities on balance are environmentally much more stressful and visually intrusive to the community than marine borrow activities. Land borrow activities invariably involve blasting, and despite site controls the noise and dust pollution factors can be substantial. Marine transport by single vessels carrying 8000 cu m of fill each trip, with minimal noise pollution, is much more preferable to transportation on land, which would require 1100 dump trucks impacting on our roads to transport the same volume.
Land sourcing of fill nevertheless is possible, with appropriate environmental pollution mitigation measures in place, as example by the success at Chek Lap Kok and elsewhere. We will continue to obtain land fill, subject to appropriate environmental controls and economic considerations.
(d) In summary, Mr President, the controlled use of our sea-bed for mud disposal and to provide filling material for reclamation, is on balance an appropriate means of minimizing environmental impact on the community at large. Economically it is also justified. I agree that we must not rely only on local waters, and we actively allow the use of imported filling material for any of our reclamation contracts. Land sourced fill can be imported or obtained locally, subject of course to strict environmental and quality controls.
REV FUNG CHI-WOOD (in Cantonese): Mr President, I am surprised that the Government does not have the figures for the volume of sand dredged in 1991. The Secretary states in his reply that the area of seabed that has been subjected to the impact of dredging and mud disposal represents approximately less than 2.5% and 1.5% respectively.
This will add up to 4% of the territory's seabed. The actual area subjected to impact is, of course, large than this. It is estimated that in the year 2000 an extra 200 million cubic metres of sea sand will be needed. If most of this sand is to come from Hong Kong's seabed, the area subjected to impact will be twice as large as it is at present, that is to say, about 10% of the seabed. Could I ask if that will mean a small area? Will our marine ecology be seriously affected then? The Secretary says in his reply that
5274 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 12 July 1995
recolonization will start early. But many environmentalists have pointed out that it will take 10 to 20 years for the marine ecosystem to be restored to its original condition. Why does the Government not conduct a more comprehensive review to estimate early the maximum volume of sand that can be dredged from the sea and carry out a full assessment of the impact on marine ecology?
SECRETARY FOR WORKS: Mr President, looking to the future, I am quite sure that we will see increasing amounts of sand being imported into Hong Kong. The success of recent contractors in sourcing imported marine fill shows that it is possible. And as I indicated in my reply, I believe that the economics will be in favour and that is exactly the reason, Mr President, why the fill management study which we have started this year again is looking actively at this area; we have identified areas. So in the future, it may be that most of our fill requirements can be satisfied by imported material but nevertheless, it is necessary for us to back up this source of supply with an adequate source of supply in Hong Kong waters. We will always determine a balance that minimizes the impact on our waters.
As far as the recolonization of the ecosystem is concerned, I believe that the surveys which have been carried out and also visual reports show that there is an early recolonization as I stated in my answer.
MR PETER WONG: Mr President, can the Secretary elucidate what he means by "does not cause tremendous damage to the marine ecology"? I am sure that he will not give me a "Yes, Minister" answer.
SECRETARY FOR WORKS: Mr President, what we mean is that within the areas subject to dredging or subject to controlled mud dumping, obviously those areas do cause disruption of the marine ecology. But in the surrounding areas, outside of the licensed areas which are used for dredging or for controlled dumping — areas which are subject to strict licence conditions, we believe the marine ecology is not significantly damaged.
REV FUNG CHI-WOOD (in Cantonese): Mr President, as a matter of fact, the Government has all along failed to make full use of construction waste as filling material for reclamation. Could I ask the Secretary what the total volume of construction waste is in each of the recent years; how much of this can be used for reclamation purpose after simple sorting, and how much is actually used each year for reclamation purpose?
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 12 July 1995 5275
SECRETARY FOR WORKS: Mr President, I do not have the figures for the volumes of construction waste. I can of course supply these. I would make the point that wherever possible, construction waste is placed into controlled landfill for reclamation purposes. I have mentioned two examples of this and we are searching for other areas which are accessible by marine transport which can be used for the disposal of construction waste. But I would point out that it must be suitable construction waste. Much of our construction waste comes from demolition of buildings or the renovation of interiors. That type of material, which combines wood, paper, cardboard and the like, is not suitable for reclamation purposes.
REV FUNG CHI-WOOD (in Cantonese): Might I ask if the Secretary for Works could give a written answer to my question?
SECRETARY FOR WORKS: I will certainly do that, Mr President. (Annex)
Old Age Allowance
4. MR ANDREW WONG asked (in Cantonese): At present, old age allowance applicants must have resided in the territory for at least five years within the period starting from five years immediately before the attainment of the qualifying age to the date of application, and absence from the territory during the five-year period immediately before application must not exceed 280 days. According to cases handled by me, there have been some cases in which applications for the old age allowance made by senior citizens who have resided in the territory for decades were rejected simply because the applicants were intermittently absent from the territory for slightly more than 280 days during the five year period immediately prior to the date of application. In view of this, will the Government inform this Council:
(a) of the total number of applications which were rejected by the Social Welfare Department in the past five years on the grounds that the residence requirement was not met;
(b) of the reasons for using 280 days as the benchmark for residence calculation; and
(c) whether the existing practice which lacks flexibility will be reviewed with a view to relaxing the 280-day limit for absence from the territory or changing the residency requirement to one which requires an applicant "to be an ordinary resident in Hong Kong" for five years prior to the date of application, so that each case can be dealt with on its own merits?
5276 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 12 July 1995
SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE: Mr President, the Old Age Allowance (OAA) is a non-means-tested and non-contributory payment to elderly persons aged 65 and above. To be eligible for it, applicants must have resided in Hong Kong for at least five years (1825 days) between the age of 60 and the date of application.
The 280-day absence rule referred to in the question works in practice as follows. If an application is made at 65 years of age, the applicant will be permitted to have been out of Hong Kong for a maximum of 280 days in the immediately preceding five-year period (in other words, to have a total residence of no less than 1545 days rather than the full 1825 days). In practice, for first applications made after 65 years of age, for example, at 70 years of age, the applicant has to demonstrate that he or she has been resident in Hong Kong for a total of 1545 days since reaching the age of 60 years.
Prior to April 1994, records of applications for OAA were kept manually and it would be very difficult and time-consuming to identify those applications which were rejected for not meeting the residence requirement. Since April 1994, records of applications have been kept in the computerized Social Security Payment System. According to computerized records, 1238 applications were rejected in 1994-95 on the grounds that the residence requirement had not been met. This represents about 2% of the total number of the applications made.
The reason for selecting a clear benchmark for the absence rule, measured in days rather than a more subjective test of, for example, "ordinary residence", is clear. The determination of ordinary residence is a matter of fact and degree which must be tested in each individual case. This would require the exercise of judgment and discretion by the staff of the Social Welfare Department in each individual case, which could lead to inconsistent standards and unfairness.
Having then accepted the need for a clear benchmark, it is, nevertheless, not possible to set the number of days involved in any logical or scientific way. The 280 days selected and now in force would allow a person to be out of Hong Kong for as long as eight weeks every year for each of the five years concerned. It would seem excessive for an elderly person, unlikely to have any business commitments overseas, to be regularly away from Hong Kong for longer than this. Indeed, evidence shows that very few elderly people need to be away from Hong Kong for more than this as can be demonstrated by the fact that only 2% of applicants in 1994-95 failed to meet this test.
The test is there to ensure that those benefitting from this non-means-tested and non-contributory allowance are genuine elderly citizens of Hong Kong — not persons visiting Hong Kong simply to take advantage of this allowance. Our residence requirements are already generous by international standards. For example, in Australia, Canada and New Zealand, the residence requirement for old age pensions is 10 years.
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 12 July 1995 5277
In view of these considerations, I can see no case for relaxing or reviewing the existing residential eligibility criteria for the Old Age Allowance.
MR ANDREW WONG (in Cantonese): Mr President, I am most dissatisfied with the Secretary's reply. She says she can see no case for reviewing the eligibility criteria. Let us imagine this. At present, 2% of the applicants are being rejected. But it is specified in the application form that an applicant will not be eligible if he or she has been away from Hong Kong for more than 280 days during the five-year period immediately preceding the application. Therefore, many people probably would not apply. But the Government ought to pay them the allowance. Let me cite an example. A 60-year-old person is out of job. A factory has relocated to mainland China and the proprietor wants to send someone to the Mainland to look after the factory. So that person goes to Dongguan to look after the factory for five years. When he returns to Hong Kong at the age of 65, he will not be eligible to apply for the OAA. If he works in the Mainland for six years, according to the present rule, he will not be eligible to apply for the allowance even when he reaches 70. Therefore, I hope the Government will address this problem. Before the eligibility criteria are reviewed or changed, what avenues of appeal or review are available? If there are such avenues, will the concept of "ordinary residence" be considered?
SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE: Mr President, under our current arrangements, if a person requires to be absent from Hong Kong in excess of 180 days, which is the absence rule once they have been eligible for OAA for reasons of work, for example working away from Hong Kong, the Director of Social Welfare has the discretion not to count this as absence.
Another discretion which he has is in respect of elderly persons who have to go away for medical treatment. If a person is unhappy about the fact that his or her application has been refused, there is of course the avenue of appeal to the Appeal Board, and in the past this has been done in some cases.
MR ANDREW WONG (in Cantonese): Mr President, the Secretary has failed to answer my question. I was not talking about the 180-day absence from Hong Kong by a person already in receipt of the OAA. I was talking about absence from Hong Kong during the five-year period immediately preceding the application. If a person was away from Hong Kong for more than 280 days for the purpose of work or treatment of an illness, would the Government consider his or her application?
5278 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 12 July 1995
SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE: Mr President, the 280-day absence rule prior to the application is a very generous rule which actually, if you calculate this, would amount to an absence of about eight weeks a year in the previous five years in respect of someone who is aged 65. Now, if that person is aged 70 years of age, then that rule is even more generous because he needs only be resident in Hong Kong for a total of 1545 days in the 10 years from the age of 60.
MR LEE CHEUK-YAN (in Cantonese): Mr President, the way the Secretary answered the question just now precisely reflects the bureaucratic ambivalence of "officials having two mouths", which is the impression the public has of the bureaucracy. On the one hand, the bureaucracy says "the number of years during which one ordinarily resides in Hong Kong" which is a subjective vetting criterion; on the other hand, it subjectively draws a line at 280 days. On the one hand, the bureaucracy says it does not want the Social Welfare Department to exercise its judgment and discretion; on the other hand, it says discretion is to be exercised in respect of applicants who return to the Mainland to work or have their illnesses treated. I personally feel that in fact the ultimate test is to ensure that the applicant is a genuine elderly citizen of Hong Kong as mentioned in the main reply. That being the case, could the Secretary tell us whether the test benchmark of 280-day absence will be reviewed? It is because the test is too subjective and cannot satisfy the test referred to by the Secretary of ensuring that the beneficiaries are "genuine elderly citizens of Hong Kong". As a matter of fact, if a greater measure of flexibility is adopted, it can better ensure that the beneficiaries are "genuine elderly citizens of Hong Kong".
SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE: Mr President, whether the 280-day absence rule is an appropriate level is of course a matter of judgment. However, this rule has been in force for a long time and it has been satisfactory as far as applicants are concerned. The fact that only 2% of our applicants have failed to meet this test in 1994 demonstrates that this is already a very generous rule. Certainly, it is always possible to look at the total number of days for the absence rule again. However, I must add that in addition to this 280-day limit, there is discretion for granting people who need to work outside Hong Kong or who need to receive medical treatment outside Hong Kong, absence in excess of 180 days.
MR TAM YIU-CHUNG (in Cantonese): Mr President, I am very much dissatisfied with the Secretary's answer. In her main reply, the Secretary said that prior to application an elderly person can be away from Hong Kong for as long as eight weeks annually for each of the five years concerned. She went on to say that an elderly person is unlikely to have any business commitments overseas and thus any relaxation of this criterion will not be considered. The actual situation is that elderly persons return to mainland China for family reunion or to live there in order to cut back on living expenses. This is the
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 12 July 1995 5279
prevailing situation. Most of them are thus unable to get the OAA. Mr President, I hope the Government will review the criteria. The Government now appears to think that all is well and the public is satisfied with the arrangements. I hope the Government will consider that this is at variance with facts.
SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE: Mr President, I am sorry, I did not get the question.
PRESIDENT: The question was in the middle, Mr TAM, would you repeat the question please?
MR TAM YIU-CHUNG (in Cantonese): Mr President, my question arises from the Government's reply the contents of which I query. It says elderly persons are unlikely to have business commitments overseas. But, as a matter of fact, many elderly persons need to live in mainland China. Therefore I question the Government's rationale.
PRESIDENT: Yes, I think the Secretary is right. That is more of a comment than a question, Mr TAM. Is there a question?
MR TAM YIU-CHUNG (in Cantonese): Mr President, will the Government carry out a review having regard to the views expressed by Members today?
SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE: Mr President, I think I have explained why we have used the absence rule and the further discretion by the Director of Social Welfare to discount absence from Hong Kong for reasons of work and for reasons of medical treatment. There is no limit to the amount of time that a person is absent from Hong Kong for legitimate business, work and medical treatment. I think I have explained that in my original reply.
Fixed Penalty Tickets
5. MR WONG WAI-YIN asked (in Cantonese): The Police have adopted for some time the measure of issuing Fixed Penalty Tickets without prior warning to the drivers of vehicles illegally parked and waiting in the Central and Tsim Sha Tsui districts. In this regard, will the Government inform this Council:
5280 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 12 July 1995
(a) of the breakdown by month of the number of Fixed Penalty Tickets issued since the adoption of such a measure, together with the total number of motor vehicles which have been issued with more than one Fixed Penalty Ticket and the highest number of Fixed Penalty Tickets issued to the same vehicle; and
(b) whether such a measure has achieved the result expected; if not, what further measures the Government will take to deter drivers from illegal parking and waiting?
SECRETARY FOR TRANSPORT: Mr President, the issue of Fixed Penalty Tickets for traffic offences is, understandably, a controversial subject. No one likes to receive such a ticket. The police on the beat and traffic wardens have a very difficult job. But tough enforcement action is essential in busy districts. The instruction to the officers concerned is that they should take immediate action to issue Fixed Penalty Tickets to the drivers of vehicles which are illegally parked or are waiting in areas where this is likely to cause serious disruption to traffic. This includes Central and Tsim Sha Tsui. This practice has been followed since August 1993. On the other hand, for minor traffic offences committed in less busy areas, a more lenient approach is adopted with the drivers often first being given warnings.
Statistics on the total number of Fixed Penalty Tickets issued for parking offences in Central and Tsim Sha Tsui have been provided to Members in the annex to the written version of my reply. The police have not kept separate statistics on the numbers of Fixed Penalty Tickets issued to the same vehicle, since such information is not required for operational reasons nor would such information be of any particular use.
The likelihood of receiving a Fixed Penalty Ticket does act as a deterrent to the majority of motorists and the police are satisfied that the practice of issuing tickets without prior warning has been effective in helping to keep the traffic moving in the busiest and most congested districts.
Honourable Members may wish to note that we intend to review the level of fixed penalty fines later this year, to determine whether they are sufficient to maintain the deterrent effect. In addition, we are now considering the extension of no-stopping restrictions, including banning goods vehicles from loading and unloading during the daytime in busy areas, as further measures aimed at maximizing road capacity and maintaining a free flow of traffic.
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 12 July 1995 5281 Annex
Fixed Penalty Tickets Issued for Parking Offences
in Central and Tsim Sha Tsui from August 1993 to May 1995
Central Tsim Sha Tsui
1993 August 8024 9499 September 7991 9037
October 8934 9367
November 9128 8516
December 8250 8465
1994 January 9244 8088 February 6720 6094
March 8233 8886
April 9196 8094
May 9175 10738
June 7793 8069
July 7126 8418
August 8205 8795
September 8322 8801
October 8495 9907
November 8642 10050
December 8222 10607
1995 January 8326 11810 February 7309 9638
March 8269 11564
April 6551 11603
May 7654 7511
MR WONG WAI-YIN (in Cantonese): Mr President, this measure has been implemented for a long time. I have heard, and indeed received complaints, that it has not been too effective. It is because most of these vehicles parked in busy streets are company private cars waiting for their bosses. If they get "issued a ticket," the penalty will be paid out of the company accounts. Therefore, it will have little deterrent effect. Even if the fixed penalty is raised, it will not deter these vehicles from parking in the streets at busy hours to wait for their bosses. As a matter of fact, according to the relevant statistics, since 1993 there have been on average 9000 tickets issued each month in each of the two districts, namely, Central and Tsim Sha Tsui, that is to say, 300 tickets issued each day. This figure has not varied much since, which re measure has not been as effective as expected and each day there are still several hundred vehicles waiting at the aforesaid locations at busy hours to pick up passengers. Could I ask the Secretary for Transport what other ways there are to deter the people concerned from parking their vehicles in the said districts to
5282 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 12 July 1995
wait to pick up others so as not to obstruct traffic? If a fixed penalty has no deterrent effect on them, will the authorities consider issuing summonses to require their attendance in court so that they will find it troublesome?
SECRETARY FOR TRANSPORT: Mr President, I do not agree with the Honourable Member's opinion that the issue of Fixed Penalty Tickets does not act as a deterrent to company cars or the drivers involved. I think even if one is the driver of a company, if he collects too many Fixed Penalty Tickets, I am sure his boss would question him.
Insofar as Fixed Penalty Tickets are concerned and regarding whether or not they are effective, the police of course have a policy of duplicate tickets where it may be justified. In this respect, where vehicles are found to be causing serious obstruction to vehicular or pedestrian traffic, more than one ticket can be given. And the policy on this is that a maximum of two tickets are issued within the first two-hour period, and one every two hours thereafter, subject to a maximum of four in any one period.
As regards the Honourable Member's comment that the number of tickets issued in Tsim Sha Tsui and Central are fairly constant, I think rather than interpreting this as not being significant, I think it demonstrates that the police are concentrating on these areas, given their limited resources, and in fact are maintaining their vigilance. As for further measures, of course we could totally ban the stopping of private cars or other vehicles in busy downtown districts, but I think one has to balance this between the need to provide reasonable areas where people can embark and disembark.
MR TAM YIU-CHUNG (in Cantonese): Mr President, according to professional drivers and taxi drivers, not only has the Government been issuing fixed penalty tickets without prior warning to drivers who illegally park their vehicles in Central and Tsim Sha Tsui, similar enforcement action has been stepped up in districts other than Central and Tsim Sha Tsui. Could I ask the Secretary if this is really the case, that is to say, if the Government has indeed instructed the police to step up prosecution action? Are there cases where professional drivers and taxi drivers feel they are being dealt with too harshly?
SECRETARY FOR TRANSPORT: Mr President, the Honourable Member is quite correct, in fact it is not only in Central and Tsim Sha Tsui where strict enforcement action is taken. In other districts such as Wan Chai, Eastern, Mong Kok and Sham Shui Po, the same policy applies in the busy areas in those districts. Insofar as police deployment is concerned, this must be left to the police commandants because they are the best to determine how police resources can best be deployed.
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 12 July 1995 5283
MR ROGER LUK (in Cantonese): In the last paragraph of the main reply, the Secretary indicated that the authorities are now considering the extension of no-stopping restrictions, including banning goods vehicles from loading and unloading during the daytime in busy areas. Could I ask the Secretary if it is the policy of the Government to require that redeveloped buildings in busy urban areas must have loading and unloading bays and a fixed number of car-parking spaces?
SECRETARY FOR TRANSPORT: Mr President, in certain districts and in certain streets, there are special loading and unloading bays, but along some of the major thoroughfares, for example, along Queen's Road East or along Nathan Road, obviously such bays cannot be provided. When I referred to the possibility of extending restrictions in these busy areas, we will of course have to consult the district boards and we hope that we will gain their support so that we can introduce more stringent traffic control measures.
MISS EMILY LAU (in Cantonese): Mr President, in order to solve thoroughly the problem of illegal parking, stopping and waiting, will the Government consider requiring all new buildings, particularly new buildings in Central and Tsim Sha Tsui, to have multi-storey car-parks to provide parking spaces to vehicles?
SECRETARY FOR TRANSPORT: Mr President, I do believe that when plans are submitted for new buildings or the redevelopment of old buildings, the number of parking spaces is one particular aspect which is given very careful consideration by both the Transport Department and the Planning Department. But certainly, I shall follow up the Honourable Member's suggestion and make sure that this is given more emphasis.
MRS PEGGY LAM (in Cantonese): Mr President, in many foreign countries, "double parking" facilities are available. Could I ask the Hong Kong Government if it will encourage local businessmen to introduce such facilities into Hong Kong so as to provide more parking spaces?
SECRETARY FOR TRANSPORT: Mr President, I understand that such double-parking within car parks is in fact already practised, for example in Pacific Place, and certainly several businessmen have approached the Transport Department with such proposals. These are being examined.
5284 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 12 July 1995 WRITTEN ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS
Licensing Examination for Medical Graduates
6. DR CONRAD LAM asked (in Chinese): Regarding the Medical Council's proposal that medical graduates from the local universities have to sit and pass a Universal Licensing Examination after 1997 before they can practise medicine in the territory, will the Government inform this Council:
(a) whether it is aware of the reasons and background of the Medical Council's proposals;
(b) of the merits and demerits of the proposal; and
(c) whether it knows if adequate consultation has been conducted by the Medical Council before proposing the change; if so, will the Government ask the Medical Council to provide details of the consultation process and its outcome; if not, why not?
SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE: Mr President,
(a) The Chairman of the Medical Council has briefed the Government on the reasons and background of the Medical Council's proposal, which is that medical graduates of the two local universities should be given a grace period of five years, after which they would be required to sit for and pass the Licensing Examination before they could practise in Hong Kong.
(b) The merits of requiring local graduates to sit for the Licensing Examination are:
(i) it would provide fair and equitable treatment for all medical graduates, irrespective of where they are trained; and
(ii) it would enable an assessment be made on the professional standard and competence of an individual rather than the institution from which the individual graduated.
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 12 July 1995 5285 The demerits of the proposal are:
(i) in conducting the Licensing Examination, local universities' expertise inevitably will be required. There would be a duplication of efforts and resources in organizing both the Licensing Examination and the universities' own graduate examinations; and
(ii) it may be undesirable to require local medical graduates to sit for two examinations of comparable standard and to be assessed by the same group of examiners at the same time.
(c) The two universities as well as the Medical Council have put forward their views in written submissions and in person to the Bills Committee to study the Medical Registration (Amendment) Bill 1995. The written submissions were dated 16 June 1995 (the Medical Council), 26 June 1995 (the University of Hong Kong) and 30 June 1995 (the Chinese University of Hong Kong). The Bills Committee met representatives of the two universities on 3 July 1995 and the Chairman of the Medical Council on 6 July 1995.
Unemployment and Job Vacancy Figures
7. MR MARTIN BARROW asked: Will the Government inform this Council:
(a) why the job vacancy figures are published three months after the unemployment figures ; and
(b) whether it will take steps to produce the two sets of figures at the same time so that there is a better chance of reducing the mismatch?
SECRETARY FOR FINANCIAL SERVICES: Mr President,
(a) Job vacancy statistics as at the end of a quarter are released about three and a half months after the reference date. As for unemployment statistics, the provisional estimate of the overall unemployment rate for a three-month period is released about two weeks after the end of the period. However, compilation of the final estimates of unemployment together with more detailed breakdowns requires longer time, usually around three months after the period concerned.
5286 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 12 July 1995
Statistics on job vacancies and on unemployment are obtained from two different surveys. As such, the speeds at which statistics can be produced are bound to be different, depending on the specific survey mechanism involved and, more importantly, on whether respondents can promptly report their situation. For job vacancies, statistics are collected from business establishments through the Quarterly Survey of Employment and Vacancies (SEV). As the reference date is end of quarter, actual field work on the SEV cannot start before the end of that reference quarter. In addition, if the business establishments concerned fail to report their position by postal return, staff of the Census and Statistics Department will have to follow up through computer-assisted telephone interviewing, and if this is again unsuccessful, by field visits. This is no doubt a time and resource consuming process, considering that the sample for the SEV covers as many as 70000 establishments in each quarter. The entire data collection process for the SEV takes about nine weeks to complete.
On the other hand, statistics on unemployment are currently collected from 13500 households each quarter through the General Household Survey. As the enquiry is made by personal interviews on a continuous basis, the time required for data collection is generally much shorter.
(b) The Census and Statistics Department always strives to shorten the time required for the production of statistics, as part of its ongoing programme of improvement to the Department's statistical systems. For job vacancy statistics in particular, currently the Department is examining the possibility of streamlining the procedures on data editing and data processing. But even with this streamlining, the shortening of time is unlikely to be very significant. Prompt and accurate response from the business establishments surveyed is the crucial factor in this regard. In future surveys, the Department will continue to stress this need to all business establishments involved.
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 12 July 1995 5287 ICAC Staff Wastage
8. MR CHEUNG MAN-KWONG asked (in Chinese): Regarding the staff wastage in the Independent Commission Against Corruption, will the Government inform this Council of:
(a) a breakdown of the wastage position in each rank by number, percentage and reasons for leaving in each of the past three years;
(b) the forecast of staff wastage for next year; and
(c) the measure adopted by the Commission, which is an extremely sensitive and important agency, to prevent its operation from being affected by staff wastage?
CHEIF SECRETARY: Mr President,
(a) A breakdown of the staff wastage in each rank by number, percentage and reasons for leaving in 1992-1994 is attached at Annexures A - C.
(b) The forecast of staff wastage for 1995 and 1996 is at Annexures D and E.
(c) Almost all Independent Commission Against Corruption (ICAC) staff (93%) are on contract terms. The Commission has therefore always had a steady turnover of staff. However, 51% of all grades have served the Commission for more than 10 years; and 11% have served for more than 20 years. There is at present no difficulty in recruiting. Staff morale generally is high. The Commission will continue to ensure that terms and conditions of service remain attractive.
Career development programmes and succession planning ensure that supervisory vacancies can be filled by promotion from within. Direct recruitment to supervisory ranks has only been a limited feature of ICAC recruitment policy in past years. However, if factors beyond the Commission's control were to cause staff to leave in greater numbers than could be replaced from within, direct recruitment at appropriate levels would be increased.
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 12 July 1995
5288
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 12 July 1995
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 12 July 1995
5290
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 12 July 1995 5291 Annex D
Forecast departures for 1995
No. of No. of known
Rank departures anticipated departures Total (position 30 June 1995)
Directorate - 2 2 SCACO 1 2 3 CACO (U) 0 7 7 CACO (M/L) 5 9 14
ACACO 9 3 12 Surveillance grades 0 2 2
General and 8 9 17 support grades
---- ----
23 34 57
= = = =
Note:
SCACO = Senior Commission Against Corruption Officer
CACO (U) = Commission Against Corruption Officer (Upper)
CACO (M/L) = Commission Against Corruption Officer (Middle/Lower) ACACO = Assistant Commission Against Corruption Officer
5292 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 12 July 1995 Annex E
Forecast departures for 1996
No. of known
Rank anticipated departures Directorate 5
SCACO 2
CACO(U) 4
CACO (M/L) 6
ACACO -
Surveillance grades -
General and support grades 4
----
21
= =
Note:
SCACO = Senior Commission Against Corruption Officer
CACO (U) = Commission Against Corruption Officer (Upper)
CACO (M/L) = Commission Against Corruption Officer (Middle/Lower) ACACO = Assistant Commission Against Corruption Officer
Extra-curricular Activity Co-ordinators
9. MR ERIC LI asked (in Chinese): A recent survey indicates that over 40% of the extra-curricular activity coordinators (ECACs) in secondary schools feel they are under heavy work pressure. Will the Government inform this Council whether:
(a) consideration will be given to reducing the number of teaching periods per cycle for the ECACs and increasing the number of clerical staff in these schools to help the ECACs with clerical work, so as to alleviate their heavy work pressure, if so, what the details are and when will such measures be implemented; and
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 12 July 1995 5293
(b) the Government will adopt other improvement measures; if so, what those measures are and when will they be implemented?
SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION AND MANPOWER: Mr President,
(a) Schools are given adequate staffing provision in accordance with the number of operating classes. The post of extra-curricular activities co-ordinator (ECAC) is a functional post similar to other functional posts such as subject panel chairmen. These functional posts carry a higher salary than normal teaching posts because the post holders are expected to carry higher responsibilities and heavier workload. School principals can deploy their own staff in the light of their own circumstances and requirements, for example, to reduce the number of teaching periods per cycle for the ECACs as necessary or to redeploy their clerical staff to assist the ECACs.
(b) We consider the present staffing provision in schools to be generally adequate, and that the flexibility now given to school heads to deploy their staff is working effectively.
Inflation Rate
10. MR MARTIN BARROW asked: Regarding the Government's announcement that the inflation rate in 1995 will be 0.5% higher than originally forecast, will the Government inform this Council.
(a) of the average and year-on-year actual/forecast inflation rates in 1994 and 1995 in respect of the following categories:
Average Year-on-Year
1994 1995 1994 1995
Actual Forecast Actual Forecast
CPI "A "
CPI "B"
Composite CPI
(b) of the reasons for the differences between the average and year-on-year figures in each category, and
(c) whether the indices and the weightings being used can correctly measure current consumption habits and whether the Government will carry out a review of the methodology?
5294 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 12 July 1995 SECRETARY FOR FINANCIAL SERVICES: Mr President,
(a) Currently, the Government produces a forecast on the Consumer Price Index (A) only. The actual average increase in the CPI(A), CPI(B) and Composite CPI in 1994, together with the forecast average increase in the CPI(A) in 1995, are given below:
Forecast Actual
average increase average increase
in 1995 in 1994
CPI(A) 9.0% 8.1%
CPI(B) - 8.6%
Composite CPI - 8.8%
The increases in the CPIs on an annual average basis are basically the same as their year-on-year increases averaged over the respective 12 months.
(b) The differential movements in the CPIs were mainly due to differences in the consumption patterns of the household expenditure groups and in the price movements of the respective components covered by the three indices. In 1994, consumers in the CPI(A) expenditure group benefited more from the slower increase in the prices of basic foodstuffs and other consumer goods imported from China, while consumers in the CPI(B) expenditure group were affected more by the accelerated increases in the prices of clothing and footwear and in housing rentals. As a result, both the CPI(B) and the Composite CPI showed faster increases than the CPI(A) in 1994.
(c) The CPIs are compiled based on the average expenditure patterns of households ascertained from the 1989-90 Household Expenditure Survey (HES). Past experience shows that average household expenditure patterns change only gradually over time. So as at present they are not reckoned to be significantly out-dated for the purpose of CPI compilation.
Under the current practice, the household expenditure patterns and hence the weights for the CPIs are updated once every five years based on the results of a new round of HES. This practice is in line with the standards adopted in statistically advanced countries/territories.
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 12 July 1995 5295
The current round of the HES, which is the 1994-95 HES, has already been conducted for some months and is now proceeding to an advanced stage. It covers the expenditure patterns of households over the period from October 1994 to September 1995. When the summary results of this survey become available, the weights of the CPIs will be updated accordingly. The Government's plan is to publish a new series of CPIs with updated expenditure weights in April 1996.
Landfill Opening Hours
11. MR TAM YIU-CHUNG asked (in Chinese): Will the Government inform this Council whether it will, in response to the request of private waste collectors, postpone the closing time of the South East New Territories landfill from 10 pm to 2 am and designate an area near the landfill as a temporary parking place for refuse collection vehicles, so as to improve the environment?
SECRETARY FOR PLANNING, ENVIRONMENT AND LANDS: Mr President, the South East New Territories (SENT) landfill is open for 15 hours a day, from 8 am to 11 pm. Of the 1500 waste collection vehicles that visit the SENT landfill daily, only 6% arrive between 9 pm to 11 pm. These operational characteristics do not indicate a need, at present, to extend the opening hours to 2 am.
Apart from the level of demand, there are other issues which need to be considered before extending the operational hours of landfills, for example, the environmental impact of refuse collection vehicles travelling through populated areas after midnight, additional traffic noise and other nuisances to local residents.
Parking spaces for vehicles in the Tseung Kwan O area are already reasonably well provided for by the existing eight lots under short-term tenancy (STT) for mixed vehicle parking. Another lot will be available by the end of 1995, thereby bringing the total amount of parking space to over 90000 sq m. At present, there are no other areas near the SENT landfill which can be used as a temporary parking place for refuse collection vehicles. However the Administration will continue to consider the need for, and provision of, additional STT space for vehicle parking if suitable land in the area becomes available.
5296 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 12 July 1995 Waiting Time at Specialist Clinics
12. DR HUANG CHEN-YA asked (in Chinese): Will the Government inform this Council:
(a) what is the longest waiting time for a new patient to have his first consultation at each of the ear-nose-throat, dermatological and eye clinics under the management of the Hospital Authority (HA); and
(b) what plans have been drawn up by the HA to improve the provision of such services?
SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE: Mr President, while ear-nose-throat clinics and eye clinics are managed by the Hospital Authority, dermatological clinics are operated by the Department of Health. The waiting time for first appointment at these clinics is provided below:
Longest waiting Average waiting
time for first time for first
appointment appointment
(Weeks) (Weeks)
Ear-nose-throat clinics 12 4 Eye clinics 24 14.5 Dermatological clinics 12 8
The above statistics should be interpreted against the growing public demand for specialist medical treatment and an increased number of total attendance in the past few years. Reduction in waiting time has been achieved through immediate assessment to accord urgent cases with priority, introduction of a central telephone booking system to facilitate access by patients, offering patients the choice of obtaining earlier treatment in other less busy clinics, as well as planning and construction of new facilities to strengthen existing services.
Drug Trafficking (Recovery of Proceeds) Ordinance
13. MR ERIC LI asked (in Chinese): Under section 20 of the Drug Trafficking (Recovery of Proceeds) Ordinance, an authorized officer may, for the purpose of an investigation into drug trafficking, apply to the court for an order to require the Inland Revenue Department (IRD) to provide information on persons suspected of having benefited from drug trafficking. Will the Government inform this Council of the numbers of applications made to the
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 12 July 1995 5297
court for the issue of court orders requiring IRD to provide information on persons suspected of drug trafficking and persons suspected of having benefited from drug trafficking respectively, as well as the number of prosecutions instituted on the basis of such information, in the last two years?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr President, during the two-year period from 1 July 1993 to 30 June 1995, the police and the Customs and Excise Department made 107 applications to the court to obtain information from the Inland Revenue Department. It is impossible to break down this number into applications for court orders requiring the Department to provide information concerning persons suspected of drug trafficking on the one hand, and persons suspected of having benefited from drug trafficking on the other, because many of the applications were made for both purposes.
One prosecution for a money laundering offence was instituted during the same period with the assistance of information provided by the Inland Revenue Department. In addition, 11 successful confiscation applications were made as a result of this information.
Reservations in ICCPR and ICESCR
14. MR LEE CHEUK-YAN asked (in Chinese): The International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights and International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights are extended to Hong Kong with certain reservations such as reservations of the right not to require the establishment of an elected Executive or Legislative Council in Hong Kong and to postpone the application of the provision concerning equal pay for equal work for men and women in the private sector, as well as the provisions which lay down the right of trade unions to set up national federations or confederations and to form or join international trade-union organizations. In this regard, will the Government inform this Council:
(a) whether the Government intends to remove all such reservations in the two covenants mentioned above;
(b) if the answer to (a) is the affirmative, whether the Government has any plan to hold discussions with the British and Chinese Governments on the removal of all such reservations applicable to Hong Kong; and
(c) if the answer to (a) is the negative, what the reasons are?
5298 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 12 July 1995
SECRETARY FOR HOME AFFAIRS: Mr President, in Part XIII of Annex I to the Joint Declaration, it is clearly stated that the provisions of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR) and the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights (ICESCR) as applied to Hong Kong shall remain in force. In our view, this envisages that reservations extant on 30 June 1997 will continue to apply. However, the continuation of our international rights and obligations arising under international agreements, including the nature of the reservations which will be applicable, are matters for discussion in the International Rights and Obligations Sub-group of the Joint Liaison Group.
There are no plans at present to remove reservations under the two Covenants. Most of these are designed either to safeguard law and order and the economic interests of Hong Kong people, or reflect our present and future constitutional position.
Site Selection for Schools
15. MISS EMILY LAU asked (in Chinese): Many of the sites proposed by the Government for the construction of primary and secondary schools are located in areas which have serious noise problems. This has often resulted in the need to provide noise insulation in the schools concerned, thus increasing the costs as well as casting doubts whether the schools erected on these sites can provide a quiet learning environment for students. In this regard, will the Government inform this Council:
(a) of the criteria for determining sites for the construction of schools in land use planning;
(b) what factors will be considered in selecting suitable school sites and whether the existence of noise problems in the vicinity of a site is a decisive one; and
(c) if the answer to the latter part of (b) is in the affirmative, why there are still schools built on sites in areas with noise problems?
SECRETARY FOR PLANNING, ENVIRONMENT AND LANDS: Mr President,
(a) Sites for schools are identified according to the location guidelines set out in the Hong Kong Planning Standards and Guidelines. These guidelines provide for, among other things, school buildings to be located away from areas affected by significant noise sources, and if this is unavoidable, then appropriate noise abatement measures should be considered.
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 12 July 1995 5299
(b) Factors to determine which sites are suitable for the building of schools include the demand for school places in the catchment area, its size, accessibility, compatibility with neighbouring institutions, cost of site formation, availability of pubic transport, noise problems, air pollution and the presence if any of hazardous installations. The weight to be given to the noise factor depends on its severity relative to other factors.
(c) An environmental review is conducted before any new school project is finalized. If the Education Department, on balancing all the factors mentioned in (a) and (b) above, decides to accept a site affected by noise problems, effort will be made to mitigate the noise impact by design, layout, double-glazing and other related measures.
Recycling of Vehicle Parts
16. DR SAMUEL WONG asked: Will the Government inform this Council of:
(a) the respective numbers of private cars, taxis, vans and minibuses which were taken to vehicle scrapping yards in each of the past three years; and
(b) the respective percentages, by weight, of the vehicles which were recycled in the stripping process and those which were subsequently discarded in the Government's landfills?
SECRETARY FOR TRANSPORT: Mr President,
(a) The Transport Department has a contract with a scrap dealer for him to purchase vehicles from the two Government Vehicle Surrender Centres and the police pounds, as well as those abandoned on Crown land. The contractor collected 2517 such vehicles in the year ending 30 June 1993, 2099 in 1994 and 1983 in 1995. Details are annexed. We have no information on the numbers of vehicles that are taken direct to private scrap dealers. However, 33700 vehicles were deregistered in the year ended 30 June 1993, 32400 in 1994 and 38200 in 1995. A large proportion of these vehicles will have been scrapped.
(b) No information is available on the percentage by weight of old motor vehicles recycled or disposed of in government landfills. However, there is a commercial incentive for scrap dealers to maximize recycling and to minimize the amount of material that has to be taken to the landfills.
5300 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 12 July 1995 Annex
No. of Vehicles Collected by Government Contractor
Year ended Year ended Year ended
Category 30 June 1993 30 June 1994 30 June 1995 Privater car 1530 1262 1189 Goods vehicle 400 296 254 Public light bus 10 6 5 Bus 3 2 6 Motorcycle 545 511 498
Vehicle body 26 9 9 (without engine)
Trailer 2 11 22
Special purpose vehicle 1 2 0 ------ ------ ------
Total 2517 2099 1983 = = = = = = = = =
Waiting List for Public Housing
17. MR FUNG KIN-KEE asked (in Chinese): Regarding the households on the waiting list for public housing, will the Government inform this Council:
(a) of the number of households on the waiting list for public housing for two years or more;
(b) of the breakdown of such households by number of family members ranging from singleton household to those with more than ten family members; and
(c) whether it will consider providing such households with rent allowance in view of the fact that these households are not given any other housing assistance whilst awaiting allocation of public housing units; if so, whether any timetable has been set for the implementation of such an arrangement; if not, why not?
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 12 July 1995 5301
SECRETARY FOR HOUSING: Mr President, at the end of May 1995, there were 148837 households on the General Waiting List for public rental housing. Of these, 108528 were registered for two years or more. The breakdown by household size is given below:
Household size Number of households
(Number of persons)
1 14208
2 23820
3 27985
4 27543
5 10825
6 3079
7 755
8 225
9 59
10 or more 29
---------
Total 108528
About 25% of these households are already living in subsidized public housing, while another 7% are accommodated in temporary housing areas.
The Government does not consider it appropriate to provide rent allowances to households on the General Waiting List. To do so would not only conflict with government social policy in other areas such as social welfare, but would also be inconsistent with the main objectives of our housing policy, where our priorities are geared towards increasing flat supply and encouraging home ownership, with assistance being provided through various subsidized schemes. This policy has the effect of making more public rental housing flats available for allocation to eligible families on the General Waiting List, and therefore represents a more efficient use of resources than providing rent allowances. Moreover, such allowances would have very substantial recurrent financial implications of possibly about $4 billion a year and other practical difficulties in implementation.
If a person on the General Waiting List is financially vulnerable, he should apply for financial assistance under the Comprehensive Social Security Assistance Scheme. If eligible, he will be paid both a standard rate to cover ordinary household expenditure and a special grant to cover rent. In granting public financial support to those in need, it would be inequitable to distinguish between those who may or may not be on the General Waiting List.
5302 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 12 July 1995 Investigations into Korean Killed in Shoot-out
18. DR CONRAD LAM asked (in Chinese): Regarding the jury's return of a verdict of death by misadventure of a Korean hostage killed by a police officer in the shootout between the police and a gunman at Shum Wan, will the Government inform this Council:-
(a) whether the police officers concerned had followed the normal procedure in the handling of the above-mentioned incident; if so, why the hostage was shot dead by the police; if not, what was the cause of the error;
(b) why the police was unable to identify the person who handcuffed the two persons killed in the incident; and whether the police will pursue the matter further; if not, why not; and
(c) what measures the police will adopt to prevent the recurrence of similar mishaps?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr President, as regards part (a) of the question, internal investigations are underway in relation to the actions of the police officers involved in this case. The evidence presented at the recent Death Inquest will be taken into consideration by the investigating officers. It is too early to say whether any police officers are at fault or have breached police procedures.
As regards part (b) of the question, the purpose of the Death Inquest was to inquire into the cause and circumstances surrounding the death of the gunman and the Korean hostage; but not to investigate each and every detail of the incident. The question as to who handcuffed the two persons killed will be considered in any legal or disciplinary proceedings which might take place.
As regards part (c) of the question, the police have pledged to conduct a full review of police policy and procedures and to address the recommendations made in connection with the Death Inquest. These recommendations include:
(i) better and broader firearms training;
(ii) tactical training for officers to deal with armed offender incidents; (iii) better training in radio communication; and
(iv) possible use of certain chemical spray to temporarily disable or incapacitate a violent offender.
The police hope to complete this review as soon as possible.
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 12 July 1995 5303 Purchase of Electricity from Daya Bay Nuclear Plant
19. MISS CHRISTINE LOH asked: According to the Secretary for Economic Services' reply to a question asked on 24 May 1995, about 64% of the electricity purchased by China Light and Power customers from the Guangdong Nuclear Power Station (GNPS) at Daya Bay is subject to a price cap. In this connection, will the Administration inform this Council:
(a) how the price of the remaining 36% of electricity purchased from GNPS is fixed;
(b) whether in the event of an unexpected shortfall of electricity produced at Daya Bay, the Guangdong Nuclear Power Joint Venture Company (GNP JVC) is allowed to set the price of these unprotected units of electricity at a rate which will allow the GNPJVC to recoup a minimum annual rate of return regardless of the price of these units as compared to the cost of electricity generated by coal-fire; and
(c) how the public can be assured that all electricity purchased from GNPS is at a price below or comparable to the cost of producing electricity from spare capacity in Hong Kong?
SECRETARY FOR ECONOMIC SERVICES: Mr President, under the terms of the joint venture contract, the Hong Kong Nuclear Investment Company Limited (HKNIC) is committed to purchasing 70% of the total output of the Guangdong Nuclear Power Station (GNPS) at Daya Bay. The nuclear electricity purchased by HKNIC is resold, without any mark-up, to its holding company, the China Light and Power Company Limited (CLP) for distribution to CLP customers. 30% of the total output is earmarked for China.
64% of the electricity purchased by HKNIC (the "resale" quantity) is subject to a unit price not exceeding the notional cost of a unit of electricity generated by a coal-fired station construction in Hong Kong and commissioned in 1991 (the coal-fired electricity price formula). There is no price cap for the remaining 36% (the "offtake" quantity) and this is charged at the actual unit price.
With this background, the answers to the specific questions are as follows:
(a) irrespective of the buyer, the actual unit price of nuclear electricity purchased from the GNPS is determined by dividing the total cost of generation plus permitted profit by the number of units sold.
5304 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 12 July 1995
Generation cost is defined in the joint venture contract. It includes all expenses relating to the production and operation of the nuclear power station.
Profit is also defined in the joint venture contract. It is expressed as percentage return on average investors' funds and is performance related.
(b) the Guangdong Nuclear Power Joint Venture Company (GNPJVC), which owns and operates the GNPS, cannot charge more for the "offtake" quantity than the actual unit price determined in accordance with the formula specified in the joint venture contract. In other words, the Company cannot recoup a minimum annual rate of return by increasing the offtake price. It should be noted that, in the event of lower than expected levels of production, both depreciation charges and profit (which are based on plant performance) will decrease, thereby lowering the unit price.
(c) The coal-fired electricity price cap applies only to the 64% "resale" quantity.
Helicopter Crashes
20. MR WONG WAI-YIN asked (in Chinese):With regard to the two helicopter crashes which occurred within a short span of time recently, will the Government inform this Council:
(a) of the total number of helicopter crashes which occurred in the territory over the past three years together with details about the dates, times, locations and causes of the crashes, as well as the helicopter models and the names of the manufacturers concerned;
(b) of the existing legislation to monitor helicopter flights and their safety; and
(c) what measures the Government has adopted to prevent the occurrence of such accidents, and whether the Government has taken action to step up those measures in order to ensure the safety of the public?
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 12 July 1995 5305 SECRETARY FOR ECONOMIC SERVICES: Mr President,
(a) There were three helicopter accidents in the territory during the past three years. Details of the incidents are as follows:
(1) Date : 21 May 1992
Time : 1420 L
Location : Near Siu Lang Shui, Castle Peak,
Hong Kong
Mode : SA315B
Manufacturer : Aerospatiale
Causes : The prime cause of the accident was the
snagging of the underslung load on a bush.
Contributing factors were the operation of
the helicopter close to or slightly above the
maximum permitted weight limit as well as
the transition from the hover to forward
flight in a downwind direction.
(2) Date : 9 June 1995
Time : 1130 L
Location : Approximately 7 km west south west of
Sek Kong Airfield (Near Yuen Long)
Model : SA315B
Manufacturer : Aerospatiale
Causes : The Inspector's investigation is currently
in progress.
(3) Date : 29 June 1995
Time : 0910 L
Location : Approximately 8 km west of Sek Kong
Airfield (Near Yuen Long)
Model : SA315B
Manufacture : Aerospatiale
Causes : The Inspector's investigation is currently
in progress.
5306 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 12 July 1995
(b) The Air Navigation (Overseas Territories) Order 1977 provides the regulatory framework and standards governing the safe operation of aerodromes, aircraft, air traffic control, aircrew and other aspects of aerial work and public air transport. This includes legislative requirements pertaining to helicopter operations. Part II of this Order relates to the issue of Air Operator's Certificates and Part V to the operation of aircraft, including helicopters.
Surveillance of helicopter operations is effected by requiring the operator to establish operating procedures in an operations manual. The Director of Civil Aviation is responsible for monitoring compliance with these procedures.
(c) The three accidents are subject to investigation under the Hong Kong Civil Aviation (Investigation of Accidents) Regulations 1983. The purpose of these investigations is to establish the cause or causes of the accident, so as to avoid a recurrence of such incidents in the future. As a result of these investigations, safety recommendations are made and implemented.
In view of the two accidents which occurred recently, the Director of Civil Aviation has provisionally suspended the Air Operator's Certificate of the company responsible for the helicopter operations, pending due inquiry, with a view to ensuring that procedures are in place to prevent a recurrence.
STATEMENT
Visit to China
CHIEF SECRETARY: Mr President, with your permission, I would like to make a statement on my recent visit to Beijing.
The Governor and I have indicated on many previous occasions in the past our wish to discuss with Director LU Ping issues relating to the transition of Hong Kong. Indeed, during his Question and Answer session on 27 April, the Governor informed this Council that he had extended an invitation to Director LU to meet either him or, if that was not possible, the Chief Secretary during his visit to Hong Kong in May. Following that, I received an invitation from Director LU to meet him over lunch in Zhuhai on 28 May. Unfortunately I was unable to accept that invitation because I was already committed to visit London. As Members are aware, I then made it clear in a public response that I welcomed the Director's invitation to meet him in China and that I had written to Director LU stating that I looked forward to doing so when I returned from leave in July. These are all matters of public record.
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 12 July 1995 5307
It was whilst I was on leave last month that I received an invitation from the Hong Kong and Macau Affairs Office to visit Peking from 30 June to 3 July. I immediately informed the Governor, who approved the visit. While I was in Peking, I was able to meet with not only Director LU Ping and his two deputy directors but also Vice-Premier QIAN Qichen. I had a 90-minute discussion with Director LU and met Vice-Premier QIAN for about 50 minutes. These discussions took place in a positive and friendly atmosphere. We exchanged views on a wide range of issues relating to the transition, including the economy, the Civil Service and co-operation with the Preparatory Committee and the Chief Executive (Designate) and his team.
I took the opportunity to outline civil servants' concerns and to stress the need for the continuity in the Civil Service to ensure a smooth transition. Both Vice-Premier QIAN and Director LU were at pains to reassure me about the importance they attached to the Civil Service; their desire to see continuity within the Civil Service; and their wish for the majority of the civil servants to continue in office after 1997, subject of course to the provisions in the Joint Declaration and the Basic Law as regards the selection of the Chief Executive (Designate) and his responsibility for nominating principal officials. I very much welcomed these reassurances. I noted in particular that all my colleagues were committed to serving Hong Kong. I had a competent team in place and all Policy Secretaries were qualified to stay on after 1997. I also indicated my wish to continue to serve the people of Hong Kong after 1997.
Both Vice-Premier QIAN and Director LU were interested in the Hong Kong economy and we discussed various aspects of the economy and prospects for the immediate future.
On transitional matters, we discussed briefly the establishment of the Preparatory Committee and the selection of the Chief Executive (Designate) who would nominate the principal officials. I referred to the commitment we had already made to co-operate fully with both the Preparatory Committee and with the Chief Executive (Designate) and his team once they were appointed. We agreed that there should be co-operation between the two sides on these transitional issues, although the form of co-operation will need to be discussed in detail.
I reaffirmed our readiness to continue to work closely with the Chinese side to complete all outstanding preparations to secure the full and faithful implementation of the Joint Declaration and the Basic Law. And both Vice-Premier QIAN and Director LU assured me that the Chinese Government would do everything possible to ensure a smooth transition, and maintain confidence in Hong Kong.
5308 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 12 July 1995
At the end of the discussions, we agreed that there should be more contact between senior officials of both sides. Indeed, Director LU and I agreed that we ourselves should be in regular contact. I came away from these meetings very encouraged about the prospects for more positive co-operation between the two sides. I see the visit as an important first step in enhancing mutual understanding and co-operation in the run-up to 1997. I hope that on the basis of this visit, it will be possible for us to establish a more trusting relationship which will be conducive to resolving issues of mutual concern.
I understand that some Members have expressed reservations that the visit was not announced in advance; and that this might generate misunderstandings on the part of the community. Let me assure Members that my meetings with Vice-Premier QIAN and Director LU were not negotiating sessions. The sole purpose of this visit was to provide an opportunity for us to get to know each other better and to open up a channel of communication to enhance contact between the two sides. There were no secret deals; no open deals; in short, no deals at all. Such contact is in fact long overdue. I believe the community feels that very strongly. Both the Governor and I are delighted that the visit has taken place. As I have already said, we hope that the visit will help in the process of greater co-operation between the two sides in the best interests of the people of Hong Kong.
The day after I returned from Peking, I briefed Members of the Executive Council and then gave details of the visit to the public through the media. I believe the most important thing is that the visit took place, and that it has achieved the purpose of opening up a channel of communication between the two sides. The visit has been warmly welcomed by the public and in particular by the Civil Service. Now that the ice has been broken, I certainly hope that there will be more visits to China, both at my level and at the level of Policy Secretaries and other senior officials and that such visits in future will be announced in the usual way.
PRESIDENT: Miss Emily LAU, a short question for the purpose of elucidation only.
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 12 July 1995 5309
MISS EMILY LAU asked (in Cantonese): Mr President, I would like to ask the Chief Secretary that in her discussion with the Chinese Government in Beijing on the question of a designate team and the civil service, did she mention to the Chinese Government Article 100 of the Basic Law, which stipulates that when the Hong Kong Special Administrative
Region is set up, various levels of the Hong Kong civil service, that is to say, civil servants who are currently serving, will all be retained? Can the Chief Secretary inform us whether or not this provision was mentioned to him, that is to say under Article 100 of the Basic Law, all the people should be retained, and therefore there is really not much room for the Chief Executive if he is to choose his own designate team and other people?
CHIEF SECRETARY: Mr President, we discussed in general the establishment of the Preparatory Committee, the selection of the Chief Executive (Designate) and his responsibility for nominating principal officials. We did not go into details, except to the extent that I have already stated in my statement.
DR CONRAD LAM asked (in Cantonese): Mr President, I am glad that the Chief Secretary can enhance her communication with China and I believe all the people in Hong Kong welcome this. Just now the Chief Secretary mentioned that Mr LU Ping told her that every effort would be made to ensure a smooth transition. In this connection, did the Chief Secretary "take advantage by the tide" and asked him whether the setting up of the provisional legislature would undermine the transition? In the statement made by the Chief Secretary just now, the Legislative Council seemed to have vanished in thin air, there was no mention of it at all.
PRESIDENT: I do not think I will allow that within the terms of Standing Order 20.
MR FREDERICK FUNG asked (in Cantonese): Mr President, just now when the Chief Secretary spoke about the meeting with Director LU Ping or Vice-Premier QIAN Qichen, she mentioned the Preparatory Committee for the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region Government, and she said that there was the possibility to co-operate with the Committee. Can the Chief Secretary spell it out whether or not civil servants may take part in the Preparatory Committee? And what about the question of co-operation ?
5310 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 12 July 1995
CHIEF SECRETARY: Mr President, both sides agreed on the need for co-operation with the Preparatory Committee. As to the specific form of co-operation, these are of course matters which will have to be discussed in detail at a later stage through the proper forum.
MR FRED LI asked (in Cantonese): Mr President, we welcome the fact that the Chief Secretary had the opportunity to communicate with Chinese officials. However, does Mrs Anson CHAN think it would be much better if she had announced to the public about this visit before she went to Beijing, than to make this statement now?
PRESIDENT: That does not really arise under Standing Order 20. Any more questions?
MISS EMILY LAU asked (in Cantonese): Can the Chief Secretary inform us whether this secret visit was proposed by the Hong Kong Government and herself, or whether the Chinese Government had made secrecy a condition for her visit?
PRESIDENT: I will not allow that under Standing Order 20. Any more questions?
MR ERIC LI asked (in Cantonese): Mr President, the Chief Secretary mentioned that it would be better had it been announced to the public earlier, but she then also mentioned that regular contacts with the Chinese side would be made in the future. I wonder if the Chief Secretary had mentioned it to Mr LU Ping in what form would such regular contacts be made?
CHIEF SECRETARY: Mr President, we did not discuss in detail the form that such regular contacts might take, but it was agreed by both sides that senior officials, particularly at Policy Secretary levels, when they visit Beijing as part of the sponsored visitors programme or indeed on other duties, that they should make a point of calling on Mr LU Ping and his deputies.
MR FREDERICK FUNG asked (in Cantonese): I would like to ask whether the Governor is counted as a senior civil servant, since the Memorandum of Understanding concerning the Construction of the New Airport stipulates that they should meet once every six months?
PRESIDENT: Bills. Second Reading.
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 12 July 1995 5311 BILLS
Second Reading of Bills
WILLS (AMENDMENT) BILL 1994
Resumption of debate on Second Reading which was moved on 6 July 1994 Question on Second Reading proposed.
DR PHILIP WONG: Mr President, the three Bills before us seek to implement most of the recommendations of the Law Reform Commission contained in its report on the law of inheritance in Hong Kong. As Members may be aware, the Bills Committee has spent nearly a year going into the details of every proposal under the three Bills. I shall highlight some major proposals in each of the Bills which are of particular concern to the Bills Committee.
Let me first go to the Wills (Amendment) Bill 1994. The Bills Committee has had considerable discussion on the proposal to repeal the existing provision in the principal Ordinance under which any will of a Chinese testator written wholly or substantially in Chinese shall be valid and duly executed although not executed in accordance with the required formalities. The Bill proposes to replace this provision by a new one with the effect that if the court is satisfied beyond reasonable doubt that the document embodied the testamentary intentions of the deceased persons they may be deemed to have been duly executed, notwithstanding that they have not been executed in accordance with the formalities.
Members are concerned whether the proposed standard for approving for admission of the validity of the will is too high. The Administration has explained that the proposed repeal aims to prevent abuse of the existing provision which lacks a formal check on authenticity of wills. The current provision is also discriminatory as it applies only to Chinese testators. The Administration considers it necessary to strike a balance between setting too high a standard for approving the validity of wills and the creation of an unacceptable risk of forged wills being admitted to probate. In the Administration's view, the new provision will provide flexibility for the admission of a will not executed in accordance with the stipulated requirements and will, at the same time, ensure a reasonable degree of certainty regarding its authenticity.
5312 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 12 July 1995
The Bills Committee has explored an alternative approach of simply lifting the requirement of being a Chinese testator under the existing provision. However, Members have noted that this approach would not pass the Bill of Rights test, and will even widen the scope for abuse as it would apply to any Chinese will, irrespective of the race of the testator. Having taken into account the fact that the validity of the existing will will be preserved in any event under the Bill, Members accept the Administration's proposal.
Another area of concern of the Bills Committee is on the proposed power of the court to correct a will which fails to carry out the testator's intentions because of either a clerical error or a failure to understand his instructions. Members have expressed worries on the circumstances under which a court may rectify the will. After being assured that rectification will only be allowed under the specified circumstances and that it will not be permissible when a draughtsman deliberately omits words or when the testator fails to appreciate the legal effect of the wording used in the will. The Bills Committee agrees that the proposal will allow the court to apply equitable principle of remedy and therefore lends its support to the proposed provision.
I would like to draw Members' attention to a proposal which aims to give legal effect in Hong Kong to the relevant provisions of the 1973 Convention on International Wills. The Administration has advised that since the law on international wills in the United Kingdom has not yet been brought into operation, in order to be in line with the United Kingdom position the Administration proposes, and Members accept, that the proposed section 23D under clause 9 should not commence until the Convention is applied to Hong Kong.
I shall now mm to the Intestates' Estates (Amendment) Bill 1994. The major proposals in this Bill are to improve the inheritance position of a surviving spouse of an intestate. The proposed improvements include, inter alia, providing for the surviving spouse to take the personal chattels absolutely and increasing the statutory legacy from $50,000 to $500,000 where there are surviving children. Where there are no surviving children, the entitlement of the surviving spouse is set at $1 million instead of the $200,000 as at present.
Members of the Bills Committee generally agree that the proposed increase falls short of the current value of an average small apartment. The surviving spouse has a perceived need to live on the statutory legacy whether the intestate dies with or without issue. The Administration has expounded that the average size of the deceased estate in Hong Kong is roughly estimated at $1 million and the estate may be consumed wholly by the surviving spouse if the amount is increased to $1 million or above. The proposed figures are not connected absolutely to the need to acquire a matrimonial home which varies from situation to situation. With the Administration's assurance that the amount of statutory legacy will be reviewed regularly, Members accept the proposed changes.
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 12 July 1995 5313
I should like to mention another proposal under the Intestates' Estates (Amendment) Bill 1994. This proposal intends to change the legal presumption of a concubinage under which the female partner of a union of concubinage entered into before 7 October 1971 will be accepted as such by the male partner's wife and family unless the contrary is proved. The reason for the proposed change, as explained by the Administration, is that it will be very difficult for a concubine to prove that she has been so recognized if she is faced by a hostile wife and family who claim otherwise. Members consider the argument not unreasonable.
As regards the Inheritance (Provision for Family and Dependants) Bill, which is to replace the Deceased's Family Maintenance Ordinance, the Bills Committee has had lengthy discussion on the proposals to widen the scope of persons eligible to apply for financial provision from the deceased's estate and to remove the prior dependency requirement on certain classes of persons. Members accept the Administration's explanation that the law should enforce the moral obligation of maintenance assumed by the deceased during his or her lifetime, and the Bill will provide a safety net for deserving persons who may have been overlooked in the will. However, Members consider it necessary that a prior dependency requirement should be imposed on certain classes of persons. It does not sound convincing that close relatives of the deceased who have not been dependent on the deceased prior to his death should be eligible to apply for financial provision after the deceased's death. The Bills Committee unanimously agreed that the prior dependency requirement should be added to certain classes of persons. To this effect, the Bills Committee has proposed amendments to clause 3, and the Administration has agreed to them. On behalf of the Bills Committee, I shall move Committee stage amendments to clause 3 and will elaborate on the details then.
At Members' suggestion, the Administration has agreed to amend clause 11 concerning property held on joint tenancy. Under the Bill, such property will be treated as part of the deceased's net estate. In order not to upset the current general expectation that the survivor will take the whole of such property upon the death of the other party, the proposed provision will be revised to apply only to joint tenancies created after the commencement of the Bill. The Secretary will move an amendment to clause 11 to this effect.
Finally, on behalf of the Bills Committee, I should like to thank the Administration for its sincerity in trying to reach a consensus with Members on many of the issues raised in the course of the deliberations. I must mention in particular the efforts and the time put in by my colleague, the Honourable Ronald ARCULLI, in chairing 15 subcommittee meetings. Under his stewardship, both the policy and the technical issues involved in the three Bills have thoroughly been examined.
With these remarks, Mr President, and subject to the amendments to be moved by the Secretary and myself, I commend the three Bills to this Council.
5314 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 12 July 1995
SECRETARY FOR HOME AFFAIRS: Mr President, with your permission, I would also like to deal with the three Bills in one speech. I would like to thank Dr the Honourable Philip WONG, Chairman of the Bills Committee to study the Wills (Amendment) Bill 1994, Intestate's Estates (Amendment) Bill 1994 and Inheritance (Provision for Family and Dependants) Bill and the other Members of the Bills Committee for their work in scrutinizing the three Bills. The dedicated efforts of the technical subcommittee of the Bills Committee under the chairmanship of the Honourable Ronald ARCULLI deserve particular mention. The meticulous work of the Subcommittee and the Committee stage amendments that have arisen from that work will ensure that the legislation is suitably adapted to Hong Kong's needs.
While society in Hong Kong has developed considerably during the last 20 years, our law of inheritance has remained largely unchanged. It was against this background that the Law Reform Commission in its report on the "Law of Wills, Intestate Succession and Provision for Deceased Persons' Families and Dependants" recommended changes to the law of inheritance. The changes recommended by the Law Reform Commission aim both to bring our inheritance law into line with current day community needs and expectations and to remove various anomalies that had come to light during its implementation. The three Bills that I am going to recommend to Members today, namely, the Wills (Amendment) Bill 1994, the Intestates' Estates (Amendment) Bill 1994 and the Inheritance (Provision for Family and Dependants) Bill, seek to implement the majority of the recommendations of the Law Reform Commission.
The first of the three Bills is the Wills (Amendment) Bill 1994. As I mentioned when I introduced this Bill into this Council, its main aims are to relax the formalities for making wills and to give the court new powers to validate, interpret and rectify wills.
Members of the Bills Committee expressed concern over the proposed repeal of the provision of the Wills Ordinance that gives special treatment to a will of a Chinese testator written in Chinese. Currently, such wills are valid even if they are not executed in accordance with the formalities. Let me take this opportunity to reiterate that the proposed repeal aims to prevent abuse of the existing provision, which lacks a formal check on the authenticity of such wills. It is to be replaced by a general power of the court to admit to probate wills not executed in accordance with the formalities but which the court is nevertheless satisfied embody the testamentary intentions of the deceased. It should also be noted that the application provisions of the Bill provide for the validity of wills made before its commencement, including wills in Chinese of Chinese testators, to be unaffected by its enactment.
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 12 July 1995 5315
The Bill also gives effect in Hong Kong to relevant provisions of the Convention on International Wills. Pending ratification of this Convention by the United Kingdom, we have proposed and the Members of the Bills Committee agree that it is appropriate for Hong Kong to follow the United Kingdom in delaying commencement of the relevant provisions.
Mr President, the main effect of the Intestates' Estates (Amendment) Bill 1994 is to improve the inheritance position of a surviving spouse of someone who has died intestate. For example, it provides for a surviving spouse to take the personal chattels absolutely, instead of the current right to require them to be appropriated in or towards satisfaction of the statutory sum to which he or she is entitled. The Bill also gives a surviving spouse the right to appropriate the intestate's interest in the matrimonial home in or towards satisfaction of his or her entitlement in the estate. In addition, the Bill increases substantially the amounts of the statutory legacies payable to a surviving spouse from the deceased's estate: from $50,000 to $500,000, where there is surviving issue; and from $200,000 to $1 million, where there are other surviving relatives but no issue. These figures were last revised in 1983 and have been considerably eroded by inflation since then.
When considering the Bill, Members of the Bills Committee suggested that the levels of the statutory legacies should be reviewed at regular intervals. We agree with this suggestion and propose to review the levels of the statutory legacies at intervals of no less than two years.
The Inheritance (Provision for Family and Dependants) Bill is the last of the three Bills aimed at effecting a general reform of the law of inheritance based on recommendations of the Law Reform Commission. It is a stand alone Bill to replace the Deceased's Family Maintenance Ordinance. The Bill provides for the court to order reasonable financial provision from the estate of a deceased for certain classes of person on application. In effect, it provides a safety net for deserving persons who have not been properly provided for either in a will or under the law of intestacy.
The main effects of the Bill are to widen the scope of persons eligible to apply for financial provisions from a deceased's estate and to give the court greater powers in making orders for such financial provision. As regards the scope of persons eligible to apply to the court for financial provision from a deceased's estate, the main change compared with the Deceased's Family Maintenance Ordinance is the inclusion of a new class of persons who, although they are not close relatives of the deceased, were dependent either wholly or partly on him or her.
5316 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 12 July 1995
In considering the Bill, Members of the Bills Committee were concerned that the greatly increased scope of potential applicants coupled with the extended powers of the court could create undue difficulties in the settlement of estates. To meet this concern, Members proposed that certain categories of eligible applicants should be subject to a requirement of having been wholly or substantially maintained by the deceased prior to his or her death. The proposed requirement would apply to a former spouse, parents, an adult child other than one with a physical or mental disability, a brother or sister and any other person. Dr the Honourable Philip WONG, the Chairman of the Bills Committee, will move an amendment during the Committee stage of this Bill to give effect to this proposal, which we have accepted.
With these remarks, Mr President, I recommend the Bill to Members. Question on the Second Reading of the Bill put and agreed to.
Bill read the Second time.
Bill committed to a Committee of the whole Council pursuant to Standing Order 43(1).
INTESTATES' ESTATES (AMENDMENT) BILL 1994
Resumption of debate on Second Reading which was moved on 6 July 1994 Question on the Second Reading of the Bill proposed, put and agreed to. Bill read the Second time.
Bill committed to a Committee of the whole Council pursuant to Standing Order 43(1).
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 12 July 1995 5317 INHERITANCE (PROVISION FOR FAMILY AND DEPENDANTS)BILL Resumption of debate on Second Reading which was moved on 6 July 1994 Question on the Second Reading of the Bill proposed, put and agreed to. Bill read the Second time.
Bill committed to a Committee of the whole Council pursuant to Standing Order 43(1).
MERCHANT SHIPPING (LINER CONFERENCES) BILL
Resumption of debate on Second Reading which was moved on 15 February 1995 Question on the Second Reading of the Bill proposed, put and agreed to. Bill read the Second time.
Bill committed to a Committee of the whole Council pursuant to Standing Order 43(1).
ELECTORAL PROVISIONS (MISCELLANEOUS AMENDMENTS) BILL 1995 Resumption of debate on Second Reading which was moved on 7 June 1995 Question on Second Reading proposed.
5318 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 12 July 1995
MR ANDREW WONG (in Cantonese): Mr President, I shall be proposing two amendments during the Committee stage later on. The proposed amendments will seek to lower from 10 years to 180 days, that is, half a year, the duration a candidate must have resided in Hong Kong before he can qualify to stand. The Administration is proposing to reduce it to three years. I am of the view that this does not go far enough. The proposal to lower it to 180 days was originally contained in a Private Member's Bill scheduled for resumption of Second Reading debate and Committee Stage deliberations on 26 July.
Mr President, with these remarks, I support the Second Reading of the Electoral Provisions (Miscellaneous Amendments) Bill 1995.
Question on the Second Reading of the Bill put and agreed to.
Bill read the Second time.
Bill committed to a Committee of the whole Council pursuant to Standing Order 43(1).
SECURITIES (INSIDER DEALING) (AMENDMENT) BILL 1995 Resumption of debate on Second Reading which was moved on 26 April 1995 Question on the Second Reading of the Bill proposed, put and agreed to. Bill read the Second time.
Bill committed to a Committee of the whole Council pursuant to Standing Order 43(1).
SECURITIES (CLEARING HOUSE) (AMENDMENT) BILL 1995 Resumption of debate on Second Reading which was moved on 21 June 1995 Question on the Second Reading of the Bill proposed, put and agreed to. Bill read the Second time.
Bill committed to a Committee of the whole Council pursuant to Standing Order 43(1).
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 12 July 1995 5319 SECURITIES (AMENDMENT) BILL 1995
Resumption of debate on Second Reading which was moved on 21 June 1995 Question on the Second Reading of the Bill proposed, put and agreed to. Bill read the Second time.
Bill committed to a Committee of the whole Council pursuant to Standing Order 43(1).
Committee Stage of Bills
Council went into Committee.
WILLS (AMENDMENT) BILL 1994
Clauses 1, 2, 3 and 5 to 12 were agreed to.
Clause 4
SECRETARY FOR HOME AFFAIRS: Mr Chairman, I move that clause 4 be amended as set out in the paper circulated to Members.
Clause 4 provides for the repeal of sections 8, 11 and 12 of the Wills Ordinance on the grounds that they have become redundant as they are now part of the general law. Members of the Bills Committee however proposed to retain them because the relevant general law could change in the future, making it necessary to re-enact the sections concerned. It is therefore proposed that clause 4 be deleted.
Mr Chairman, I beg to move.
Proposed amendment
5320 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 12 July 1995 Clause 4
That clause 4 be amended, by deleting the clause.
Question on the amendment proposed, put and agreed to.
Question on clause 4, as amended, proposed, put and agreed to.
Schedule was agreed to.
INTESTATES' ESTATES (AMENDMENT) BILL 1994
Clauses 1 to 4, 6, 8, 9, 12, 13 and 16 were agreed to.
Clauses 5, 7, 10, 11, 14 and 15
SECRETARY FOR HOME AFFAIRS: Mr Chairman, I move that the clauses specified be amended as set out in the paper circulated to Members.
The amendment to clause 5 explicitly provides that "the net sum payable" under clause 6 of the Bill refers to the "statutory legacies" payable to a surviving spouse under clauses 4(3) and 4(4).
The change of wording to clause 7 is to ensure consistency of treatment between a surviving spouse and other beneficiaries in offsetting an interest in an intestate's estate required in the jurisdiction against an interest acquired in Hong Kong.
The amendments to clauses 10 and 11 provide for changes in Chinese versions of the words "representation" and "personal representatives".
The changes to clauses 14 and 15 aim to replace English paragraphs in the Chinese version of the Bill arising from the subsequent promulgation of the authentic Chinese versions of the Legitimacy Ordinance and Adoption Ordinance, which are referred to in the clauses concerned.
Mr Chairman, I beg to move.
Proposed amendments
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 12 July 1995 5321 Clause 5
That clause 5 be amended, in the proposed section 6(a), by adding "under section 4(3) or (4)" after "payable".
Clause 7
That clause 7 be amended, in the proposed section 8A(3), by deleting "may be" and substituting "is".
Clause 10
That clause 10(c) be amended, by deleting "承辦權" wherever it appears and substituting "承辦 ".
That clause 10(j) be amended, in the proposed paragraph 5(4)(a), by deleting "承辦權" and substituting "承辦".
Clause 11
That clause 11 be amended, in the proposed Schedule 2 —
(a) in paragraph l(1)(b), by deleting "遺囑代理㆟" and substituting "遺產代理㆟"; (b) in paragraph 3(1)(a) and (3), by deleting "承辦權" and substituting "承辦".
Clause 14
That clause 14 be amended, by deleting the clause and substituting —
"14. 為免生疑問而訂定的條文
《婚生㆞位條例》（第 184 章）第 14 條現予修訂 —
(a) 在第(2)款㆗，廢除“《婚姻制度改革條例》（第 178 章）
所規定的指定日期”而代以“1971 年 10 月 7 日”；
(b) 加入 —
“(3) 凡在任何法律程序㆗證明任何夫妾
關係是男方與女方在 1971 年 10 月 7 日前締結的，
即須推定女方於男方在生時已被男方的妻子接納為
其夫之妾，而男方家㆟亦普遍承認如此，直至相反
證明成立為止。”。
5322 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 12 July 1995 Clause 15
That clause 15 be amended, by deleting the clause and substituting — "15. 領養根據本條例而作出
《領養條例》（第 290 章）第 25(2)條現予修訂，廢除“1972 年 12 月 31 日”而代以“1973 年 1 月 1 日”。".
Question on the amendments proposed, put and agreed to.
Question on clauses 5, 7, 10, 11, 14 and 15, as amended, proposed, put and agreed to.
Heading before New Territories Land
New clause 15A (Exemption) Ordinance
New clause 15A Provision relating to
the Probate and
Administration Ordinance (Cap.10)
New clause 15B Provision relating to
the Intestates' Estates
Ordinance (Cap.73)
Clauses read the First time and ordered to be set down for Second Reading pursuant to Standing Order 46(6).
SECRETARY FOR HOME AFFAIRS: Mr Chairman, I move that the Heading before new clause 15A, new clauses 15A and 15B as set out in the paper circulated to Members be read the second time.
These additions are consequential upon the repeal of section 11 of the Intestates' Estates Ordinance and sections 75(1)(a) and 75(3) of the Probate and Administration Ordinance. Explicit references to these sections made in the New Territories Land (Exemption) Ordinance are removed to avoid referring to sections that have been repealed.
Mr Chairman, I beg to move.
Question on the Second Reading of the clauses proposed, put and agreed to. Clauses read the Second time.
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 12 July 1995 5323
SECRETARY FOR HOME AFFAIRS: Mr Chairman, I move that the Heading before new clause 15A, new clauses 15A and 15B be added to the Bill.
Proposed additions
Heading before new clause 15A, new clauses 15A and 15B
That the Bill be amended, by adding —
"New Territories Land (Exemption) Ordinance
15A. Provision relating to the Probate and
Administration Ordinance (Cap.10)
Section 7 of the New Territories Land (Exemption) Ordinance (Cap.452) is amended by repealing "of section 75".
15B. Provision relating to the Intestates'
Estates Ordinance (Cap.73)
Section 8 is amended by repealing "of section 11".".
Question on the addition of the Heading before new clause 15A, new clauses 15A and 15B proposed, put and agreed to.
INHERITANCE (PROVISION FOR FAMILY AND DEPENDANTS) BILL Clauses 1, 2, 4, 7, 8, 9, 12, 13, 15, 17 to 21, 23, 24, 25 and 27 to 30 were agreed to. Clause 3
DR PHILIP WONG: Mr Chairman, I move that clause 3 of the Bill be amended as set out in the paper circulated to Members.
Clause 3 of the Bill defines the scope of persons eligible to apply to the court for financial provision from a deceased's estate. Compared with the Deceased's Family Maintenance Ordinance which the Bill seeks to replace, clause 3 includes a new class of persons who were dependent, either wholly or partially, on the deceased immediately prior to his death or her death. The clause also removes the prior dependency requirements on parents of the deceased in order to be eligible to apply for financial provision.
5324 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 12 July 1995
The Bills Committee has thoroughly examined the implications of the proposal to enlarge the scope of eligible persons against the other provisions in the Bill. Whilst Members accept the Administration's argument that the law should enforce the moral obligation of maintenance assumed by deceased person during his or her lifetime, this obligation, however, should be confined to those persons who were financially dependent on the deceased prior to his or her death. There is no reason why a family member of the deceased who was not used to being maintained by the deceased should be allowed to apply for financial provision from the deceased's estate after his or her death. The prior dependency requirement is of particular relevance if we take into account the extent of the power of the court to make orders for financial provisions under the Bill. The Bills Committee therefore proposes to amend clause 3 to the effect that a former spouse, a parent, an adult child, a sibling and any other person will be eligible to apply for financial provision if they were maintained by the deceased, either wholly or substantially, before death. In the case of a surviving spouse, a tsip or male partner to a recognized union of concubinage, no prior dependency requirement is necessary. Such a requirement also will not apply to an infant child of the deceased or a child of the deceased who is, by reason of some mental or physical disability, incapable of maintaining himself. With these amendments, the powers of the court under the Bill will be put in perspective.
Mr Chairman, I beg to move.
Proposed amendment
Clause 3
That clause 3(1)(ii) be amended, by adding "and was being maintained, either wholly or substantially, by the deceased immediately before his death" after "remarried".
That clause 3(1)(iv) be amended, by adding "who immediately before the death of the deceased was being maintained, either wholly or substantially, by the deceased" after "deceased".
That clause 3(1) be amended, by deleting paragraph (v) and substituting —
"(v) an infant child of the deceased, or a child of the deceased who is, by reason of some mental or physical disability, incapable of maintaining himself;
(va) an adult child of the deceased who immediately before the death of the deceased was being maintained, either wholly or substantially, by the deceased;".
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 12 July 1995 5325
That clause 3(1)(vi) be amended, by adding "and was being maintained, either wholly or substantially, by the deceased immediately before his death" after "that marriage".
That clause 3(1)(vii) be amended, by deleting "partly" and substituting "substantially". That clause 3(1)(viii) be amended, by deleting "partly" and substituting "substantially".
That clause 3(3) be amended, by deleting "(1)(vii) and (viii), a person shall be treated as being maintained by the deceased, either wholly or partly" and substituting "(1)(ii), (iv), (v), (va), (vi), (vii) and (viii), a person shall be treated as being maintained by the deceased, either wholly or substantially".
Question on the amendment proposed, put and agreed to.
Question on clause 3, as amended, proposed, put and agreed to.
Clauses 5, 6, 10, 11, 14, 16, 22 and 26
SECRETARY FOR HOME AFFAIRS: Mr Chairman, I move that the clauses specified be amended as set out in the paper circulated to Members.
The amendments to clause 5 provide for the changes to clauses 5(4) and 5(5). The change to clause 5(4) is proposed further to the amendment to clause 3 of the Bill already passed by this Council. The change to clause 5(5) is a technical amendment, which replaces "and" with "or" when it first appears.
The amendments to clause 10 allow the court to take into account all the circumstances of a case in treating a death bed gift as part of the net estate of a deceased following an application under the Ordinance. For example, the court would be able to take account of any diminution in the value of gift following the death of the deceased.
The amendment to clause 11 provides for a new subsection (5) which provides that the clause should only apply to those joint tenancies entered into after the commencement of the Bill. Under the general law, property under a joint tenancy automatically becomes the property of the other person on the death of one of the joint tenants. In other words, it is not normally part of the deceased's estate. Clause 11 provides for such property to be treated as part of the deceased's net estate for the purpose of the Ordinance. Members of the Bills Committee proposed that this should only apply to joint tenancies created after the commencement of the Bill as joint tenancies already in existence have not been made in the expectation that the property concerned would be so treated.
5326 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 12 July 1995
Clause 16 is amended at the suggestion of the Bills Committee to remove the time limit for an application under clause 3 of the Bill made by a former spouse of the deceased. This is proposed as under Hong Kong's circumstances it would not normally be possible to comply with the specified time limit.
The amendment to clause 14 deletes a redundant phrase from the Chinese version of the Bill.
The amendments to clauses 6, 11(1), 22 and 26 provide for changes in the Chinese versions of the words "representation" and "property".
Mr Chairman, I beg to move.
Proposed amendments
Clause 5
That clause 5(4) be amended, by adding ", (va)" after "section 3(1)(v)". That clause 5(5) be amended, by deleting "and" where it first appears and substituting "or".
Clause 6
That clause 6 be amended, by deleting "權".
Clause 10
That clause 10 be amended, by deleting "be treated for the purposes of this Ordinance as part of the net estate of the deceased; but this subsection" and substituting ", to such extent as appears to the court to be just in all the circumstances of the case, be treated for the purposes of this Ordinance as part of the net estate of the deceased, but this section".
Clause 11
That clause 11 be amended —
(a) in subclause (1), by deleting "物業" where it twice appears and substituting " 財產".
(b) by adding -
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 12 July 1995 5327
"(5) This section does not apply to a joint tenancy of any
property created before the commencement of this Ordinance.".
Clause 14
That clause 14(1) be amended, by deleting "在衡量各項可能性後".
Clause 16
That clause 16(1) be amended, by deleting ", within 12 months from" and substituting "after".
Clause 22
That clause 22(1) be amended, by deleting "承辦權" and substituting "承辦". That clause 22(3) be amended, by deleting "承辦權" and substituting "承辦".
Clause 26
That clause 26 be amended —
(a) in the heading, by deleting "權".
(b) by deleting "承辦權" wherever it appears and substituting "承辦". Question on the amendments proposed, put and agreed to.
Question on clauses 5, 6, 10, 11, 14, 16, 22 and 26, as amended, proposed, put and agreed to.
Heading before New Territories
New clause 27A Ordinance
New clause 27A High Court or the
District Court may
enforce Chinese customs
5328 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 12 July 1995
Heading before New Territories Land
New clause 28A (Exemption) Ordinance
New clause 28A Savings for customary
land trusts
New clause 28B Provision relating to
section 2 of the
Inheritance (Provision) for
Family and Dependants) Ordinance
Clauses read the First time and ordered to be set down for Second Reading pursuant to Standing Order 46(6).
SECRETARY FOR HOME AFFAIRS: Mr Chairman, I move that the heading before new clause 27A, new clause 27A, the Heading before new clause 28A, new clauses 28A and 28B as set out in the paper circulated to Members be read the Second time.
These new clauses are consequential on the repeal of the Deceased's Family Maintenance Ordinance. They change references to the Deceased's Family Maintenance Ordinance in other Ordinances to the Inheritance (Provision for Family and Dependants) Ordinance.
Mr Chairman, I beg to move.
Question on the Second Reading of the clauses proposed, put and agreed to. Clauses read the Second time.
SECRETARY FOR HOME AFFAIRS: Mr Chairman, I move that the Heading before new clause 27A, new clause 27A, the Heading before new clause 28A, new clauses 28A and 28B be added to the Bill.
Proposed additions
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 12 July 1995 5329 Heading before new clause 27A, new clause 27A
That the Bill be amended, by adding before clause 27 —
"New Territories Ordinance
27A. High Court or the District Court may
enforce Chinese customs
Section 13(2) of the New Territories Ordinance (Cap.97) is amended by repealing "Deceased's Family Maintenance Ordinance (Cap.129)" and substituting "Inheritance (Provision for Family and Dependants) Ordinance ( of 1995)".".
Heading before new clause 28A, new clauses 28A and 28B
That the Bill be amended, by adding —
"New Territories Land (Exemption) Ordinance
28A. Savings for customary land trusts
Section 5(2) of the New Territories Land (Exemption) Ordinance (Cap.452) is amended by repealing "Deceased's Family Maintenance Ordinance (Cap.129)" and substituting "Inheritance (Provision for Family and Dependants) Ordinance ( of 1995)".
28B. Provision relating to section 2 of the
Inheritance (Provision for Family and
Dependants) Ordinance ( of 1995)
Section 9 is amended by repealing "Deceased's Family Maintenance Ordinance (Cap.129)" and substituting "Inheritance (Provision for Family and Dependants) Ordinance ( of 1995)".".
Question on the addition of the Heading before new clause 27A, new clause 27A, the Heading before new clause 28A, new clauses 28A and 28B proposed, put and agreed to.
5330 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 12 July 1995 MERCHANT SHIPPING (LINER CONFERENCES) BILL
Clauses 1, 3, 4, 5, 9 and 12 to 17 were agreed to.
Clauses 2, 6, 7, 8, 10 and 11
SECRETARY FOR ECONOMIC SERVICES: Mr Chairman, I move that the clauses specified be amended as set out in the paper circulated to Members.
Members will recall that the Merchant Shipping (Liner Conferences) Bill is part of our ongoing exercise to localize United Kingdom legislation applying to Hong Kong so that the existing system of laws will continue after 1997. The Bill will implement in Hong Kong legislation the Convention on the Code of Conduct for Liner Conferences. The Code establishes rules designed to ensure a balance of interests between suppliers and users of liner shipping services; to avoid discrimination against shipowners and shippers of the foreign trade of any country; and to ensure transparency of information to interested parties.
All the proposed amendments are changes to the Chinese text to remove possible discrepancies in meaning between the two texts of the Bill.
Mr Chairman, the Merchant Shipping (Liner Conferences) Bill is the last major localization exercise in respect of merchant shipping legislation. Subject to Members' approval today, we will have substantially completed the localization of the whole body of maritime law, barring some minor tidying up and adaptation work. This is a most significant achievement for shipping is crucial to Hong Kong's economy. We are the world's eighth largest trading economy: some 90% of that trade is handled through the port. We must ensure the present successful system of shipping regulation can continue beyond 1997, as enshrined in the Joint Declaration. This exercise will help achieve this.
It has been five years since the enactment of the first item of localized shipping legislation. Looking back, the process has been painstaking and at times arduous. I would like to take this opportunity to thank Members for their contribution to the completion of this programme.
Mr Chairman, I beg to move.
Proposed amendments
Clause 2
That clause 2(1) be amended, in the definition of "判決", by deleting "裁決" and substituting "裁斷".
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 12 July 1995 5331 Clause 6
That clause 6 be amended, in the Chinese text, by deleting subclause (5) and substituting — "(5) 凡在《守則》所引起的程序㆗ —"
(a) 某公會會員就引致任何㆟蒙受損害或損失被判敗訴；且
(b) 該成員所負法律責任的程度並非依據第(1)至(3)款決定，
則如尋求在香港強制執行該判決，該會員就有關損害或損失所承擔的賠償責 任，不得較假若依據該等條款決定法律責任的程度時所須承擔的賠償責任為 大。".
Clause 7
That clause 7(3) be amended, by adding "（以其名義）" after "對它".
Clause 8
That clause 8(6) be amended, by deleting "訴訟各方提交" and substituting "將訴訟各方轉 介".
Clause 10
That clause 10 be amended, in subclauses (4), (5), (6) and (7), by deleting "裁決" wherever it appears and substituting "裁斷".
Clause 11
That clause 11(2)(a) be amended, by deleting "為履行總督或任何獲授權㆟" and substituting "總督或任何獲授權㆟為履行其" .
Question on the amendments proposed, put and agreed to.
Question on clauses 2, 6, 7, 8, 10 and 11, as amended, proposed, put and agreed to. Schedules 1, 2 and 3 were agreed to.
5332 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 12 July 1995 ELECTORAL PROVISIONS (MISCELLANEOUS AMENDMENTS) BILL 1995 Clauses 1 to 7, 9 to 15 and 17 to 22 were agreed to.
Clauses 8 and 16
MR ANDREW WONG (in Cantonese): Mr President, I move that clauses 8 and 16 of the Bill be amended. The amendments are meant to further relax the requirements of a candidate relating to ordinary residence in Hong Kong for 10 years.
I do not think the Government's proposal to reduce the existing requirements to three years is good enough. I think a further reduction to 180 days is necessary. I move my motion after some research and deliberations, rather than hastily.
Members may recall that Justice CHEUNG in the obiter dictum to the judgment given in the case In R v Apollonia LIU, ex pane LAU San-ching (Ref No. HCMP 3215 of 1994) indicated that there is strong evidence showing that the 10-year qualifying residence period is inconsistent with Article 21 of the Bill of Rights regarding "reasonable restrictions". He suggested that the relevant provisions in the electoral law be amended as soon as possible. I am sure all Members will agree that the existing law should be amended quickly to bring it in line with the Bill of Rights.
Mr President, I hold the principle that an electoral system and laws relating thereto must not be so "paternalistic" as to unreasonably limit choices available or to unduly influence electors' choices. Nor should the right to candidature be unreasonably restricted.
In most common law jurisdictions, residential requirements are loose. For example, in the Australian Commonwealth, the legal residential requirement is six months. In Canada, the legal residential requirement is six months in seven of the provinces, and 12 in the remaining three. In the United Kingdom, to qualify for an election a candidate needs only to be resident in his or her consistituency at a specified "qualifying date", rather that having to be resident there for any period. My proposal amendments on the whole follow the general trend. They are therefore not too loose.
Mr President, Honourable Members, we must not forget that direct elections in Hong Kong have a history of more than 100 years. The first direct election took place in 1888. At that time, there was direction election for the Sanitary Board, now the Urban Council. There were a lot of restrictions then for electors' qualifications. Even real popular and fair direct elections have a history of more than 10 years, dating back to 1982. Our electors are now
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 12 July 1995 5333
politically mature to decide who can be their representatives. Therefore, we must relax those requirements that are out-dated and unreasonable in the electoral law.
I sincerely hope that everybody will vote in favour of my amendments. Mr President, I beg to move.
Proposed amendments
Clause 8
That clause 8 be amended, by deleting "3 years" and substituting "180 days".
Clause 16
That clause 16 be amended, by deleting "3 years" and substituting "180 days". Question on the amendments proposed.
SECRETARY FOR CONSTITUTIONAL AFFAIRS (in Cantonese): I would like to take this opportunity to restate our position, Mr President, as regards our proposal to reduce the qualifying residential period for election candidates from ten years preceding nomination to three years.
The rationale for imposing some form of residential requirement on election candidates is to ensure that candidates will have good knowledge of Hong Kong. The qualifying period should be sufficiently short to meet the requirement under the Bill of Rights, but sufficiently long to ensure that candidates have adequate first-hand and up-to date knowledge of local conditions. We believe that a qualifying period of three years immediately preceding the date of nomination strikes the right balance.
We have great reservation on proposals to further reduce the qualifying period to less than three years, for example, to 180 days as proposed by Mr Andrew Wong. Such proposals would create prospects for people who have only resided in Hong Kong for an extremely short period of time to become candidates and, if elected, to sit on our representative institutions. Obviously, it is highly questionable whether a person who has resided in Hong Kong for only 180 days, or even a year, will have acquired a thorough understanding of the community's needs and aspirations, as well as the many and varied complex issues it faces. Thorough enough, that is, to be able to represent the interests of his constituents, and to make important decisions affecting the long-term interests of Hong Kong.
5334 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 12 July 1995
And we must remember that Hong Kong is a dynamic, sophisticated metropolitan which is rapidly changing and evolving. Some people would say that if the electors want someone who has been in Hong Kong for only a few months to represent them, then so be it. Mr President, I beg to differ. Electors will, of course, have the final say on who their representatives are; this is what open and fair elections are all about. But any responsible governments anywhere are duty bound to prescribe some minimum qualifications for candidature, so as to protect the integrity of the electoral process and the overall interests of the community. In our present case, a qualifying residential period of three years precisely serves this purpose. It is, of course, the case that the qualifying residential period for candidature vary from one jurisdiction to another. But we must be extremely careful in drawing any direct comparison between our own requirement, and those overseas. Circumstances differ from one jurisdiction to another, and these must be taken into account when deciding on the appropriate qualifying period.
Mr President, for the reasons I set out earlier, the three ex-officio Members will vote against Mr Andrew WONG's amendment to further reduce the qualifying residential period.
MR ANDREW WONG (in Cantonese): Mr Chairman, what the Secretary for Constitutional Affairs said a moment ago was misleading. I teach political studies and am comparatively more familiar with history. Before 1982, the electoral law of Hong Kong only required a person to have ordinarily resided in Hong Kong for three years in order to qualify for registration as a voter. And any registered voter could qualify to stand as a candidate without any other added conditions. Therefore, it would be entirely incorrect to say that any person who has resided in Hong Kong for a brief period, say, half a year, is apparently being allowed to stand as a candidate. A candidate must first be registered as a voter. Now we have tightened up the requirement so that only whose who have resided in Hong Kong for seven years or who are local people, that is, British Dependent Territories Citizen holders, can qualify. Therefore, the present position in Hong Kong is that the rule was tightened up after 1982, not relaxed. At that time, the rule was tightened up not just to require a candidate to be a registered voter but also to impose an added condition that a candidate must have resided in Hong Kong for 10 years. In respect of elections to the Legislative Council, Members may say that there are certain reasons to justify the requirement or that the requirement is reasonable. But, as a matter of fact, High Court Judge Mr Justice Peter CHEUNG has ruled it to be unreasonable. What about the Urban Council? What about the district boards? The 10-year residence requirement prescribed in Chapter 367 of the Laws of Hong Kong applies across the board to the three-tiered boards and councils.