HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 8 December 1993 1319 OFFICIAL RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
Wednesday, 8 December 1993
The Council met at half-past Two o'clock
PRESENT
THE PRESIDENT
THE HONOURABLE JOHN JOSEPH SWAINE, C.B.E., LL.D., Q.C., J.P.
THE CHIEF SECRETARY
THE HONOURABLE MRS ANSON CHAN, C.B.E., J.P.
THE FINANCIAL SECRETARY
THE HONOURABLE NATHANIEL WILLIAM HAMISH MACLEOD, C.B.E., J.P.
THE ATTORNEY GENERAL
THE HONOURABLE JEREMY FELL MATHEWS, C.M.G., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE ALLEN LEE PENG-FEI, C.B.E., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE MRS SELINA CHOW LIANG SHUK-YEE, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE HUI YIN-FAT, O.B.E., J.P.
DR THE HONOURABLE DAVID LI KWOK-PO, O.B.E., LL.D., J.P. THE HONOURABLE PANG CHUN-HOI, M.B.E.
THE HONOURABLE SZETO WAH
THE HONOURABLE ANDREW WONG WANG-FAT, O.B.E., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE EDWARD HO SING-TIN, O.B.E., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE RONALD JOSEPH ARCULLI, O.B.E., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE MARTIN GILBERT BARROW, O.B.E., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE MRS PEGGY LAM, O.B.E., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE MRS MIRIAM LAU KIN-YEE, O.B.E., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE LAU WAH-SUM, O.B.E., J.P.
1320 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 8 December 1993 DR THE HONOURABLE LEONG CHE-HUNG, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE JAMES DAVID McGREGOR, O.B.E., I.S.O., J.P. THE HONOURABLE MRS ELSIE TU, C.B.E.
THE HONOURABLE PETER WONG HONG-YUEN, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE ALBERT CHAN WAI-YIP
THE HONOURABLE VINCENT CHENG HOI-CHUEN, J.P. THE HONOURABLE MOSES CHENG MO-CHI
THE HONOURABLE MARVIN CHEUNG KIN-TUNG, J.P. THE HONOURABLE CHEUNG MAN-KWONG
THE HONOURABLE CHIM PUI-CHUNG
REV THE HONOURABLE FUNG CHI-WOOD
THE HONOURABLE FREDERICK FUNG KIN-KEE
THE HONOURABLE TIMOTHY HA WING-HO, M.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE MICHAEL HO MUN-KA
DR THE HONOURABLE HUANG CHEN-YA
THE HONOURABLE SIMON IP SIK-ON, O.B.E., J.P.
DR THE HONOURABLE LAM KUI-CHUN
DR THE HONOURABLE CONRAD LAM KUI-SHING, J.P. THE HONOURABLE LAU CHIN-SHEK
THE HONOURABLE EMILY LAU WAI-HING
THE HONOURABLE LEE WING-TAT
THE HONOURABLE ERIC LI KA-CHEUNG, J.P.
THE HONOURABLE FRED LI WAH-MING
THE HONOURABLE MAN SAI-CHEONG
THE HONOURABLE STEVEN POON KWOK-LIM
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 8 December 1993 1321 THE HONOURABLE HENRY TANG YING-YEN, J.P.
THE HONOURABLE TIK CHI-YUEN
THE HONOURABLE JAMES TO KUN-SUN
DR THE HONOURABLE SAMUEL WONG PING-WAI, M.B.E., J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE PHILIP WONG YU-HONG
DR THE HONOURABLE YEUNG SUM
THE HONOURABLE HOWARD YOUNG, J.P.
THE HONOURABLE ZACHARY WONG WAI-YIN
DR THE HONOURABLE TANG SIU-TONG, J.P.
THE HONOURABLE CHRISTINE LOH KUNG-WAI
THE HONOURABLE ROGER LUK KOON-HOO
THE HONOURABLE ANNA WU HUNG-YUK
THE HONOURABLE JAMES TIEN PEI-CHUN, O.B.E., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE ALFRED TSO SHIU-WAI
ABSENT
THE HONOURABLE MARTIN LEE CHU-MING, Q.C., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE NGAI SHIU-KIT, O.B.E., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE TAM YIU-CHUNG
THE HONOURABLE LAU WONG-FAT, O.B.E., J.P.
IN ATTENDANCE
MR MICHAEL SUEN MING-YEUNG, J.P.
SECRETARY FOR HOME AFFAIRS
MR ALISTAIR PETER ASPREY, O.B.E., A.E., J.P.
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY
1322 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 8 December 1993
MR CHAU TAK-HAY, J.P.
SECRETARY FOR TRADE AND INDUSTRY
DR LEE SHIU-HUNG, I.S.O., J.P.
SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE
MR LAM WOON-KWONG, J.P.
SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION AND MANPOWER
MR LEO KWAN WING-WAH, J.P.
SECRETARY FOR PLANNING, ENVIRONMENT AND LANDS
MR TAM WING-PONG
SECRETARY FOR FINANCIAL SERVICES
THE CLERK TO THE LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL
MR CLETUS LAU KWOK-HONG
THE DEPUTY CLERK TO THE LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL MR PATRICK CHAN NIM-TAK
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 8 December 1993 1323 Papers
The following papers were laid on the table pursuant to Standing Order 14(2): Subject
Subsidiary Legislation L.N. No.
Import and Export (Strategic Commodities)
Regulations (Amendment of Schedules)
(No. 2) Order 1993 .................................................................................. 456/93
Boilers and Pressure Vessels (Exemption)
(Consolidation)(Amendment)(No. 2)
Order 1993 .............................................................................................. 459/93
Employees Retraining Ordinance (Amendment of
Schedule 2)(No. 12) Notice 1993 ............................................................ 460/93
Companies (Amendment)(No. 2) Ordinance 1993
(75 of 1993)(Commencement) Notice 1993 ............................................ 461/93
Sessional Papers 1993-94
No. 33 — Vocational Training Council Annual Report 1992-93
No. 34 — Report of the Brewin Trust Fund Committee on
the Administration of the Fund
for the year ended 30 June 1993
No. 35 — Sir Murray MacLehose Trust Fund Trustee's Report
for the period 1 April 1992 to 31 March 1993
No. 36 — General Chinese Charities Fund Income and
Expenditure Account with balance sheet and
certificate of the Director of Audit
for the year ended 31 March 1993
No. 37 — Hong Kong Sports Institute Annual Report 1992-93
No. 38 — Report by the Trustee of the
Police Children's Education Trust
Police Education and Welfare Trust
for the period 1 April 1992 - 31 March 1993
No. 39 — Ocean Park Corporation Annual Report 1992-93
1324 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 8 December 1993 Addresses
Hong Kong Sports Institute Annual Report 1992-93
MR HOWARD YOUNG: Mr President, tabled before this Council today is the Annual Report of the Hong Kong Sports Institute for the period 1 April 1992 to 31 March 1993.
The mandate of the Hong Kong Sports Institute, namely, athlete development and management; coach education and development; sports science, medicine and research; resource information; international exchanges; and cooperation with other sporting bodies and the municipal councils, provides us with a firm direction and a clear vision of the future.
With such objectives in mind, the institute commits itself to providing high quality coaching, facilities and research support for athletes in its care. The institute works closely with the national sports associations in furthering the standard of sports in Hong Kong and the performance of our aspiring athletes.
1992-93 has been another busy and active year for the Hong Kong Sports Institute. A new board was appointed on 1 July 1992 to serve until 31 March 1994. During the year, the board has established three new subcommittees covering sports, sports science and sports medicine and finance and facilities. These subcommittees have enabled board members to make a deeper contribution to the more mundane matters of the institute requiring the board's attention.
1992-93 was a fruitful year for our athletes. Outstanding results were achieved in international competitions, including a gold medal in the Women's Team Event at the Asian Table Tennis Championships; gold medals at the East Asian Squash Championships; very sound efforts by athletes in badminton, fencing and table tennis at the Barcelona Olympics; gold medals at the Asian Windsurfing Championships; and bronze medals at the Asian Swimming Championships.
The year was also an excellent one financially. The institute's management has put in much efforts to maximize revenue opportunities through greater and more effective use of its facilities, increased marketing and sponsorship activities, and an even tighter control of expenditure. For the first time since the Hong Kong Sports Institute Trust Fund was set up in 1987, there was no drawdown from the trust fund. Indeed, a credit balance was achieved and a net contribution of $2.15 million was added to the trust fund.
The institute has also been greatly encouraged by a government allocation of $100 million announced by the Financial Secretary in March 1993. This special grant, held in trust by the Hong Kong Sports Development Board for use by the Hong Kong Sports Institute, will go a long way to better prepare our many talented athletes for participation in major regional and international
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 8 December 1993 1325
competitions in the next few years and to further develop sports science, sports medicine and other sports support services. With this special government allocation, I can say with optimism that Hong Kong's medal chances would be enhanced.
Close co-operation between the Hong Kong Sports Institute, Hong Kong Sports Development Board, ASF&OC and national sports associations has brought about positive results for the benefit of local sports. This will continue to play an important part in the years ahead. The Hong Kong Sports Institute Board has been working together with the Sports Development Board and the Government in planning for an efficient and effective integration of the Sports Development Board and the institute from 1 April 1994, subject to the relevant bill being passed by this Council. After the integration, the institute will remain the technical arm of sports in Hong Kong and will maintain its independence, continuing to liaise and work directly with the ASF&OC and national sports associations on athlete development, training, coaching and other sports support services. The harmonious and close co-operation which the institute has enjoyed with the ASF&OC and national sports associations will undoubtedly be strengthened as a result of the integration.
With these words, Mr President, I commend this report to the Council.
Ocean Park Corporation Annual Report 1992-93
MR RONALD ARCULLI: Mr President, tabled before the Council is the Ocean Park Corporation's Annual Report for 1992-93.
In the past financial year ended 30 June 1993, Ocean Park hosted 3.1 million visitors. This equates to a growth of 22% over the previous year and is a record for the Park since it opened 16 years ago.
Total surplus in the year amounted to $98.1 million, which represents a 43% increase. While our net operating surplus of $71.4 million showed a dramatic increase of 82%, our operating income reached a record $294 million, achieving a 24% growth from the previous year.
Over 31 million people have visited Ocean Park since its opening, and we anticipate further growth in its popularity. The outstanding event of a very busy year was the opening of Kids' World on 16 July 1993. This family attraction is an entirely new themed area with many activities for children and fun for the whole family.
Our financial performance has increased our desire to make Ocean Park affordable to all families. This was highlighted earlier this year when we reduced our admission fees by 7%. Adult admission is now $130 and children $65. We are committed to this policy and agreed to stabilize prices for at least
1326 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 8 December 1993
two more years whilst still maintaining the operating surplus necessary for our expansion programme.
To supplement our progress in meeting our recreational and educational goals, we have persistently focused on fulfilling the needs of the entire community. To this end we have continued our policy of providing free entry to children, senior citizens and the disadvantaged. We welcomed 400 000 non-paying guests during the year as part of our community service programmes.
We have also recently established the Ocean Park Conservation Foundation to expand the park's marine mammal conservation programmes by creating a very focused approach to critical marine mammal issues. We look forward to launching an international effort in support of the protection of endangered marine mammals in the Asian region.
In the past year we have turned particular attention to the needs of our disabled guests. Substantial progress was achieved when all our rides were licensed as suitable for disabled persons. The work of our newly created Disabled Advisory Committee will continue to ensure that the park is accessible to all visitors.
The conclusion of the 1992-93 year also marks another milestone in Ocean Park's history. Sir Gordon MacWHINNIE, who served the park for the past 16 years and most recently as chairman for the last nine years, retired at the end of the park's most successful year ever. His achievements are far too many to list in full, yet one thing is clear: his hard work and dedication has been a driving force behind the success of Ocean Park. Our future looks very bright indeed, we will continue to invest our surplus in new facilities and attractions for the people of Hong Kong, and we will undoubtedly maintain our position as one of South East Asia's most popular recreation and educational parks.
Thank you, Mr President.
Oral answers to questions
Government advisory bodies
1. MS ANNA WU asked: Will the Government inform this Council: (a) how many government advisory boards and committees are there at present;
(b) of these, how many conduct their meetings in public and provide the public with documents such as agenda, minutes and briefing papers and information relating to their business; and
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 8 December 1993 1327
(c) whether it has any established policy with regard to the openness and the public's right of access to these bodies; if so, what is it, and if not, why not and will it consider formulating one?
SECRETARY FOR HOME AFFAIRS: Mr President, there are around 350 full government boards and committees that are either wholly or partly advisory in nature. In the vast majority of cases, they render advice and act as a source of information at the initial stages in the process of decision-taking. Several further stages are normally gone through after consideration by the relevant advisory board or committee and before final decisions are taken on the matter concerned. It is generally during these further stages that more open discussion takes place. Ultimately, any matter that requires the sanction of the Legislative Council will be subject to the procedures of the Council, which are totally open. In addition, it should be noted that a number of advisory boards and committees regularly consider confidential or commercially sensitive information.
The 19 district boards and the Airport Consultative Committee are examples of advisory bodies whose meetings and papers are all open to the public, while meetings of area committees are often open and their papers are available to the public on request. In addition, in the case of a large number of advisory boards and committees, the chairman gives a press briefing either on a regular or occasional basis on the deliberations of the board or committee concerned. An example is the Transport Advisory Committee, the chairman of which routinely briefs the press on the committee's discussions.
The system of advisory boards and committees in its current form enables the Administration to obtain candid advice from a broad cross-section of the community. These are people with a vast reservoir of experience and expertise who give freely of their time and energy to serve the community away from the limelight. The current system serves Hong Kong very well and we see no reason to change the status quo.
MS ANNA WU: Mr President, does the Government undertake periodic reviews of the operations of the advisory bodies, including the extent to which their operations are open to the public? If so, what were the findings? If such reviews have not been conducted, will the Government undertake to conduct such reviews and make its findings public?
SECRETARY FOR HOME AFFAIRS: Mr President, as I have said in my main reply, our current system serves Hong Kong very well and we see no reason to change the status quo. Although we have not carried out any periodic reviews of the system, we do from time to time review the effectiveness of individual boards and committees. And we are satisfied that the boards and committees continue to function very well. As it is implied in the main reply, we do not believe that the suggestion that meetings and papers of advisory boards and
1328 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 8 December 1993
committees should be open to the public would either be helpful or appropriate. It is likely that this will impede the provision of candid advice from a broad cross-section of the community, which is a major advantage of the current system. In any case, matters of significant public interest discussed by advisory boards and committees are invariably made public at a later stage. Press briefings by the chairmen of the relevant boards or committees is one way whereby such matters are made known to the public. If new legislation is involved, it would of course have to come eventually to this Council for approval.
MISS CHRISTINE LOH: Mr President, in his reply just now the Secretary said that greater openness of these advisory bodies is not necessarily helpful or appropriate. I would like to ask him: Would the Government not agree that holding the meetings in public and making information and documents available to the public would result in greater participation in the running of Hong Kong, which is exactly what the Hong Kong Government professes it wants?
SECRETARY FOR HOME AFFAIRS: Mr President, we do believe that, where appropriate, we should open our meetings to the public. And as I have said in my main reply, the 19 district boards and the Airport Consultative Committee are prime examples of such bodies whose meetings and papers are all open to the public. I have also mentioned area committees. There are 124 area committees and they often open their meetings and make available papers to the public on request. I am afraid, due to logistics and the large number of such bodies involved, it is not always possible to provide papers to the public. But we do try to meet their demands on request. And as I have said, many chairmen of such advisory boards and committees give briefings, either on a regular or occasional basis. I am afraid we have not got a final count on the number of such bodies, but at the moment we have come to know that there are about 41 of such boards and committees which indulge in this practice.
MR FREDERICK FUNG (in Cantonese): Mr President, the Secretary has said in the last paragraph of his reply that these advisory boards and committees can obtain candid advice from members of the community who have wide representation. According to our general understanding of the term wide representation, it particularly refers to representativeness, and only those who are returned by elections can be said to have representation. But all the members of the 350 boards and committees referred to earlier by the Secretary, with the exception of district board members, are not returned by elections. As the great majority of the members of these boards and committee are appointed by the Administration and over half of them are not returned by elections, will the Administration consider appointing more elected members to the boards and committees which have direct bearing on people's livelihood like the Housing Authority, the Transport Advisory Board or the Education Commission,
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 8 December 1993 1329
preferably to the extent that over half of the membership are returned by elections, so as to enhance the credibility of these bodies?
PRESIDENT: Which part of the Secretary's answer do you wish elucidated, Mr FUNG?
MR FREDERICK FUNG (in Cantonese): Mr President, it is the third paragraph of the Secretary's reply that I seek elucidation. It says that these boards and committees consist of members with wide representation who provide candid advice to the Administration. What I would like to ask is about the representativeness of these members. As most of them are appointed instead of elected, does it imply from what the Secretary says that the Administration is prepared to consider appointing more elected members to these boards and committees?
SECRETARY FOR HOME AFFAIRS (in Cantonese): Mr President, I have not mentioned "representativeness" in my reply. I have only said that the members come from a broad cross-section of the community. As to the question of "representativeness" mentioned by Mr FUNG and our criteria in selecting members, we will select those who are competent having regard to their experience, expertise in a certain field and willingness to give their time to serve the community. These are the criteria that we fully adhere to in selecting members.
MISS EMILY LAU (in Cantonese): Mr President, I believe that the Chinese translation of the part concerned in the Secretary's reply is incorrect. The Secretary's answer has clearly indicated that those members have no representation. And I believe Members will agree this is what the Secretary has said. Mr President, the Secretary has said in his answer that these people, who have no representation, provide candid advice to the Administration. As the Administration is against opening the meetings of these boards and committees to the public, does it suggest that it has reasons to believe that if these meetings are open to the public, then it will no longer be able to obtain candid advice from those people who have no representation?
SECRETARY FOR HOME AFFAIRS (in Cantonese): Mr President, that is of course not what we mean to say. The fact is that we do not know whether there will be potential danger in holding open meetings. But we have to bear in mind that the system of advisory boards and committees is only part of the process of policy formulation within the entire government framework. As I have said at the beginning, our process of decision-taking is quite a long one. The consultation exercise will begin with these advisory boards and committees. After this initial stage, concrete proposals are outlined in the form of Green
1330 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 8 December 1993
Paper or bill. Thereafter there will still be sufficient time and opportunities for the public to put their views to the Administration.
DR DAVID LI: Mr President, how many of the 300 or so advisory boards or committees hold regular press briefings after their meetings?
SECRETARY FOR HOME AFFAIRS: Mr President, I am afraid I have not got a precise figure in this regard because of the large number of advisory boards and committees involved. We are still trying to work out the figure. But up to now it has come to our notice that about 41 of them regularly or occasionally brief members of the press after their meetings. This is normally done by the chairmen. And as I have said, a prime example of this is the Transport Advisory Committee.
Fixtures and fittings of HOS flats
2. DR TANG SIU-TONG asked (in Cantonese): According to reports by the media, most of the flat owners of the Saddle Ridge Garden in Ma On Shan have replaced the original fixtures and fittings of their flats after their moving in to this Home Ownership Scheme (HOS) estate. The fixtures and fittings replaced include teak wood floorboards, front doors, washbasins, bath tubs and kitchen cabinets. This would mean a waste of public money on these built-in items. Will the Administration inform this Council:
(a) of the approximate number of HOS flat owners who were found to have removed the original fittings and fixtures of their flats in the past two years; how much these displaced fittings and fixtures roughly cost;
(b) whether any study has been made by the department(s) concerned to find out the causes of such practice, if so, what causes have been identified; and
(c) whether the department(s) concerned will review the present situation related to internal decorations and furnishings; if yes, whether its findings together with options to tackle this problem could be released to the public?
SECRETARY FOR PLANNING, ENVIRONMENT AND LANDS: Mr President, it is common practice in both private and public housing for new flat owners and tenants to carry out some alteration, fitting and decoration works before moving in.
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 8 December 1993 1331
Since fitting out and decoration works are carried out by Home Ownership Scheme (HOS) flat owners at their own expense, it is very difficult to estimate the approximate number of owners who have removed the original fittings and fixtures, and quite impossible to give an estimate of the value of such items removed.
It is the Housing Authority's policy to provide adequate fittings and a standard that will render a flat immediately habitable upon occupation; and to update and revise, as far as possible, the standard of fittings of HOS flats in accordance with changing needs and preferences. In July 1993, the Housing Authority approved changes to standard fittings for kitchens, bathrooms and the common areas of buildings of Harmony blocks.
In a recent survey conducted by the Housing Department on its tenants and HOS flat owners, result shows that between 20% to 50% of HOS flat owners would like to make varying degrees of alterations to the standard fittings in the kitchens and bathrooms. The main reasons given were a desire to personalize the decoration of one's own flat, to upgrade the standard of the fittings and fixtures and to fit out a flat more attuned to the needs of one's family. On the basis of such feedback, the Housing Department is currently reviewing the feasibility of making improvements to the fitting-out standards of bathrooms, kitchens and the common areas of buildings.
Furthermore, the Housing Department has planned to conduct a full-scale survey on this topic in early 1994 to obtain a more accurate assessment of HOS flat owners' preferences before putting further improvement measures to the Housing Authority for consideration. The survey results and any improvements approved will be made public.
DR TANG SIU-TONG (in Cantonese): Mr President, the Administration said in the fourth paragraph of the reply that the survey conducted by the Housing Department on public housing tenants and HOS flat owners showed that 20% to 50% of HOS flat owners had made alterations to their kitchens and bathrooms. Does the Administration have any ways and means to deal with this situation? And what are the results of the survey on public housing?
SECRETARY FOR PLANNING, ENVIRONMENT AND LANDS (in Cantonese): Mr President, as I have said in the reply, the Housing Department will review, in the light of the results of this survey, to see if better facilities can be provided in kitchens, bathrooms and the common areas of buildings, and whether the standard of fittings can be raised.
PRESIDENT: Dr TANG, not answered?
1332 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 8 December 1993
DR TANG SIU-TONG (in Cantonese): Mr President, how about the results of the survey on public housing?
SECRETARY FOR PLANNING, ENVIRONMENT AND LANDS (in Cantonese): Mr President, I think the main question relates to HOS estates and the target of the survey was mainly HOS flat owners.
DR TANG SIU-TONG (in Cantonese): Mr President, the Administration's reply in fact did refer to the Housing Department's survey on public housing and HOS flats. What I would like to ask is the results of the survey on public estates only.
SECRETARY FOR PLANNING, ENVIRONMENT AND LANDS (in Cantonese): Mr President, the Housing Department conducts a survey every year and it covers wide ranging issues. One of the topics covered by the questionnaire of the last survey was HOS estates. The questions on public housing were related to other issues and had nothing to do with decoration works.
MR CHIM PUI-CHUNG (in Cantonese): Mr President, the Administration acknowledged in its reply that 20% to 50% of the residents found the existing standard unsatisfactory. Since this is indication that the Administration is not that clear about the needs of Hong Kong people (including the standard of essential facilities), can other methods be used to ascertain that the standard of requirement now is different?
SECRETARY FOR PLANNING, ENVIRONMENT AND LANDS (in Cantonese): Mr President, the Housing Department does conduct regular surveys on the preferences of HOS and public housing residents, and their views on various measures. Just now I have mentioned that the Housing Department has conducted a survey recently and will consider making improvements in the light of the survey results. Furthermore, the department has planned to conduct a more in-depth survey early next year to gauge the opinions of HOS owners on decoration works. This seeks to obtain more accurate information which will assist the Housing Authority in considering further improvement measures.
MR JAMES TIEN: Mr President, as the Housing Department found that between 20% to 50% of the flat owners would like to make varying degrees of alterations to the standard fittings, I really do not see a need to conduct another full-scale survey on the same topic in early 1994. It will not serve any purpose if the survey shows that, say, 20% to 55% of the people do not agree with the Housing Authority's decision. Will the Government inform this Council whether consideration will be given to appointing representatives of the tenants
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 8 December 1993 1333
and flat owners in question to a committee which is to be responsible for making the decision on the standard of fittings?
SECRETARY FOR PLANNING, ENVIRONMENT AND LANDS: Mr President, the survey that was carried out last time was to find out the general attitude of the HOS owners in terms of the decoration and fittings. The forthcoming full-scale survey will go into details about which aspect of the decoration owners do not like or like and what sort of upgrading they would wish to have.
MR JAMES TIEN: Mr President, the Secretary has not answered the second part of my question which is whether the Government will appoint representatives of the tenants to a committee responsible for making the decision on these fixtures?
SECRETARY FOR PLANNING, ENVIRONMENT AND LANDS: Mr President, the decision will be taken by the Housing Authority. And the Housing Authority has members who can echo the sentiment and wishes of the HOS owners.
MR WONG WAI-YIN (in Cantonese): Mr President, how will the Administration deal with those abandoned front doors, washbasins and so on? Can some of these items be reused?
SECRETARY FOR PLANNING, ENVIRONMENT AND LANDS (in Cantonese): Mr President, refuse of owners should be disposed of by the contractors employed by them.
PRESIDENT: Not answered, Mr WONG?
MR WONG WAI-YIN (in Cantonese): Mr President, in fact, abandoned items can be found piling up everywhere in the precincts of housing estates during the decoration period, and are not, as the Secretary has said, disposed of by the owners themselves. The Secretary has failed to give me a direct answer.
SECRETARY FOR PLANNING, ENVIRONMENT AND LANDS (in Cantonese): Mr President, disposing refuse left behind after decorations should be the responsibility of the owners.
1334 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 8 December 1993 Rehabilitation policies and services
3. MR HUI YIN-FAT asked: According to the Green Paper on Rehabilitation Policies and Services published for public consultation in March 1992, a detailed implementation schedule would be worked out taking into account the public views on the relative priorities of various rehabilitation services and be incorporated in the future White Paper on Rehabilitation. In this regard, will the Government inform this Council of the progress so far in the matter and when the White Paper will be published?
SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE: Mr President, as regards the implementation schedule, we have been working on it since the completion of the public consultation exercise on the Green Paper on rehabilitation. I would like to update Members on the progress of work involved. We consulted the Rehabilitation Development Co ordinating Committee (RDCC) through a series of meetings in the latter part of 1992 as to which areas in the Green Paper should be accorded priority. The RDCC is the principal advisory body to the Government on the development and implementation of rehabilitation policies and services.
Having regard to public views on the Green Paper, the RDCC drew up a set of criteria for determining the relative priority of major recommendations in the document. These criteria include the extent of shortfall in service provision and the degree of hardship it has caused to people with disabilities and their families.
In the light of RDCC's advice on prioritization, we proceeded with the work on the implementation schedule which has recently been finalized. It covers five areas, namely, social rehabilitation, medical rehabilitation, special education, transport and public education. Funds for the various items in the schedule have been secured through last year's capital injection of $2.3 billion into the Lotteries Fund and the annual Resource Allocation Exercise.
With the implementation schedule put in place, we have started the necessary groundwork of the White Paper on rehabilitation. We intend to publish it in 1994.
I understand that some people in the rehabilitation field would like to see an early release of the White Paper. May I take today's opportunity to reassure them that the lack of a White Paper in the meantime has not prevented us from further developing rehabilitation services. Since mid-1992, we have, indeed, taken many of the major recommendations in the Green Paper forward. These include the implementation of the key targets in the Green Paper, promotion of public education on rehabilitation, improved access for people with disabilities to the public transport system and review of legislative measures.
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 8 December 1993 1335
MR HUI YIN-FAT: Mr President, if I may refer to the final paragraph of the Secretary's reply. Does the Government usually publish a White Paper on a specific service after the public has been consulted? Why should the Government do something different this time on the Green Paper on rehabilitation?
SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE: Mr President, basically there is no material difference. As indicated in my main reply, we intend to publish the White Paper in 1994. The actions that we have taken in the meantime are to facilitate the expedient implementation of the schedule. For example, the promotion of public education on rehabilitation is an ongoing process; our aim is to encourage integration and also equal opportunity for disabled people. But it would take time to change people's attitude. So the earlier we work on education and publicity, the greater it will help to achieve this aim.
MR ERIC LI (in Cantonese): Mr President, when I moved the motion concerned about two years ago, I warned that serious delays would result if Members were to introduce new subjects. But I have never expected that the White Paper is still to be published after almost two years. The Administration's reply says that what we need to do now is to implement instead of prepare any papers. Can we presume that the Administration has new accepted the original recommendations of the Green Paper withour reservations? If not, what are the recommendations the Administration has reservations on? In the Green Paper, there were options in respect of, for example, employment and transport policies. What then are the Administration's options and its policies?
SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE: Mr President, the RDCC, as I mentioned, is the principal advisory body to the Government. We are in the process of examining all the recommendations in and also the public views on the Green Paper on rehabilitation. It is still our intention to consult the RDCC and eventually work out a White Paper in the light of the views from the public and also the views from the RDCC.
MS ANNA WU: Mr President, will the Secretary elaborate on the nature of legislative measures under review and the Government's findings?
SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE: Mr President, the legislative measures that are now being considered include three main areas.
Firstly, the proposed improvements to the Mental Health Ordinance. This is an area where consideration is being given as to whether or not separate definitions should be worked out for the terms "mental handicap" and the "guardianship scheme".
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The second area is the need for anti-discrimination legislation for the promotion of the rights of disabled persons. We hope to arrive at an early decision next year.
The third area concerns mentally handicapped persons giving evidence in court. As Members are aware, a working party has been set up to examine the ways and means by which mentally handicapped persons giving evidence in court may be assisted in order to minimize any trauma they may suffer. And the Health and Welfare Branch and the Social Welfare Department are represented on this working party which is chaired by Mr Justice Michael WONG.
MR FREDERICK FUNG (in Cantonese): Mr President, according to the Secretary's reply, previously the procedures for publication of Green Paper and White Paper are consultation first, to be followed by policy formulation and finally implementation. But now the order is consultation first, followed by implementation and then public announcement of policies. In this way, the process may be prolonged. Moreover, this also raises doubts as to whether the targets for implementation are the same as or similar to those that we envisage will be laid down in the White Paper as policy objectives? Does the change in the process of consultation imply that the Administration has turned the White Paper which is a commitment of policy objectives into a work report?
SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE: Mr President, as I indicated in my earlier reply, there is basically no material difference between the publication of the Green Paper and, following that, the publication of the White Paper. The White Paper is a paper to set out the overall policy on rehabilitation. This is a very complex and very wide ranging subject and is being considered also by the RDCC. So we intend to seek the views of the RDCC and later on publish a policy paper.
DR HUANG CHEN-YA (in Cantonese): Mr President, at present, it is difficult for the disabled to find jobs. Even if they can, usually they are employed to do trivial tasks rather than jobs that they are qualified to do. Can the Secretary inform this Council with whom the Administration has reviewed the issues of employment opportunities and training of disabled persons as contained in the White Paper, and what new proposals and resources will be recommended?
SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE: Mr President, the Employment Subcommittee of the RDCC, under the chairmanship of the Honourable Vincent CHENG, is currently actively looking into possible ways to promote different modes of employment for people with disabilities. And in the process of consultation this subcommittee will also take into account the views and opinions of the employers and those of the disabled persons. Members may
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care to note that the Governor will chair a summit meeting with representatives of disabled groups and employers to see how best to promote employment opportunities for disabled persons.
Scientifically assisted human reproduction
4. DR LEONG CHE-HUNG asked: In relation to the public consultation on the final Report of the Committee on Scientifically Assisted Human Reproduction, will the Administration inform this Council:
(a) what publicity and promotional activities has the Administration launched to encourage response of the public and concerned bodies to the consultation;
(b) how many submissions have been received so far and whether a brief summary of the views stated therein could be provided;
(c) what is the Government's time table for implementing the Committee's recommendations; and finally
(d) in the meantime, how does the Administration ensure sufficient monitoring over those organizations now conducting scientifically assisted human reproduction and related activities?
SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE: Mr President, I thank Dr LEONG, the Chairman of the Committee on Scientifically Assisted Human Reproduction (SAHR), for providing me with an opportunity to inform this Council of the present position regarding the report which his committee submitted to the Government in 1992.
SAHR procedures assist human conception by artificial means with one or more of the following features:
(a) use of human gametes (that is, sperm or egg) of a third party;
(b) fertilization of embryos outside the body, with a woman becoming pregnant without sexual intercourse; and
(c) surrogacy whereby one woman (the surrogate mother) carries a child for another.
The Committee on SAHR's report formed part of a consultation paper which I tabled in this Council on 31 March this year. It was published for public consultation the same day, accompanied by a press release. In response to press enquiries, officers of the Health and Welfare Branch gave follow-up interviews.
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Copies of the consultation paper were sent to all district offices for collection by members of the public, to district boards, professional bodies, interest groups and individuals who had responded to the committee's interim report, inviting their response. Officers of the Health and Welfare Branch attended a meeting of the Yau Tsim District Board and the Social Welfare Advisory Committee, at which the subject was discussed. The opportunity was also taken to explain the complexity of the issues involved at a recent public forum.
A total of 30 written responses were received on the consultation paper, the last arriving on 27 November 1993. I discussed the subject with a visiting Canadian expert last month and will be meeting the visiting President of the British Human Fertilization and Embryology Authority tomorrow.
The submissions received were mainly from medical, social, religious and academic organizations and individuals, with little indication of interest from the general public. While a few respondents favoured total prohibition of SAHR, the general tenor of responses was that SAHR should be allowed but be subject to regulation. The diversity of views makes it clear that SAHR is a subject with serious social, ethical, moral and legal implications, where decisions taken by the Government must fully reflect and take into account a wide range of community opinion.
I shall shortly be submitting a summary of the views received to the Executive Council and seeking its advice on policy proposals. Subject to the advice of the Executive Council, it is my intention to announce the proposals and provide a summary of the views received to this Council. If accepted by the Executive Council, a start could be made on introducing the proposals in 1994-95, subject of course to the availability of the necessary resources and the passage through this Council of any necessary legislation.
Until then, SAHR is — and remains — a medical procedure. It may only be provided by a registered medical practitioner, who is subject to the provisions of the Medical Registration Ordinance and who must operate within the professional ethical guidelines laid down by the Medical Council of Hong Kong. The council is entrusted by law to uphold the professional standard of all registered doctors and to act on any complaints touching on matters of unprofessional conduct.
It is the responsibility of each doctor to explain to the patient in his care about the treatment proposed, its cost, efficacy and possible consequences. It is then for the patient to make an informed choice whether or not to proceed. Should any member of the public wish to make a complaint against a medical practitioner for the SAHR treatment received, he or she has recourse to complain to the Medical Council.
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DR LEONG CHE-HUNG: Mr President, in the last paragraph of his main reply, the Secretary said that the public can complain about the doctor performing SAHR to the Medical Council. In the event that an organization doing SAHR is not registered under a registered medical practitioner, what are the channels of recourse open to an aggrieved member of the public? And would the Secretary agree that a central monitoring body for SAHR is imminently called for, given the fact that many methods of SAHR are being now practised in Hong Kong?
SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE: Mr President, on the first part of the question, may I assure Dr LEONG that SAHR procedures are now being carried out by well renowned bodies, that is to say, the two medical faculties of the University of Hong Kong and the Chinese University of Hong Kong and the medical units of the Hong Kong Family Planning Association. They have their own ethical rules which they meticulously observe and, as far as I am aware, no complications arising from this procedure have come to our notice.
On the second part of the question, the setting up of a body is recommended in the committee's report on SAHR and this is one of the areas where I will be seeking the views of the Executive Council.
DR LEONG CHE-HUNG: Mr President, may I ask another question? PRESIDENT: Well, Dr Conrad LAM first.
DR CONRAD LAM (in Cantonese): Mr President, the response of the community towards Scientifically Assisted Human Reproduction is that most are in favour of monitoring by the Government. Recently, certain organizations and individuals are helping their clients to select the gender of their babies through scientific means. What is the Government's attitude towards them and how far monitoring is done?
SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE: Mr President, gender selection, as I have mentioned in my main reply, is and remains a medical procedure. So it will be within the remit of the Medical Council, and any person carrying out this procedure must be a registered medical practitioner registered with the Medical Council and subject to professional discipline and standards as enshrined in the Medical Registration Ordinance.
MR MICHAEL HO (in Cantonese): Mr President, may I refer to the second last paragraph of the reply in which it says that SAHR must operate within the professional ethical guidelines laid down by the Medical Council of Hong Kong. As this is a very wide ranging issue and has social, moral, ethical and Religious
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implications, will the Administration consider having such guidelines formulated by widely representative bodies or committees comprising sociologists, ethical experts or people from the religious sector, or will such guidelines be formulated by the Hong Kong Medical Council alone?
SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE: Mr President, Mr HO's question contains two parts. First, with regard to the standard of medical practitioners, under the Medical Registration Ordinance the Medical Council is empowered to monitor the standard of registered medical practitioners.
Secondly, on gender selection, there are two aspects to it. One relates to the medical implications and the other relates to the social implications. Medically, it is an acceptable procedure, for instance, in cases where there is a risk of the mother having a baby boy suffering from sex linked disorder. But the social implications are very wide ranging. So, as I said, there are legal and ethical implications and therefore this is a matter where the Administration would like to have views from all sectors.
PRESIDENT: Not answered, Mr HO?
MR MICHAEL HO (in Cantonese): Mr President, my question has not been answered. What I have asked is very clear, that is, will a committee comprising for example sociologists as well as people from the religious sector as I have mentioned be set up? But the reply given is that the Administration would like to have views from all sectors. Does this imply that there will be a committee comprising people from all walks of life and different professional disciplines? Will the Administration elaborate on this?
SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE: Mr President, the question really is not whether the composition of the committee or body should include people from different walks of life and different professional disciplines. The question is whether or not the Administration will accept the setting up of such a body and this is an area where I intend to seek the view and advice of the Executive Council, the result of which will be made known to the Legislative Council. And with regard to the composition of the body, this will be considered after the need for such a body is established.
DR TANG SIU-TONG (in Cantonese): Mr President, in view of the rising demand for artificial fertilization service and that the average waiting time for such a service exceeds one year, does the Administration have any plans in hand to assist?
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SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE: Mr President, I am sure Dr TANG knows very well SAHR is a medical procedure for treatment of people suffering from infertility. So it will be up to the attending doctor to decide what appropriate treatment is necessary for the individual patient. And at the same time there is also service available from private practitioners.
Stolen Hong Kong boats in Chinese waters
5. MR SIMON IP asked: The Hong Kong police recently reported sightings in Chinese territorial waters of boats stolen from various locations in Hong Kong. Will the Government inform this Council as to:
(a) the number of stolen (or suspected stolen) boats actually seen in Chinese waters; (b) the estimated value of these boats;
(c) whether any have as yet been recovered by the Hong Kong Government; and
(d) what measures are currently underway to recover the stolen boats and to prevent further occurrence of this sort?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr President, the police have received nine reports of pleasure boats being stolen in Hong Kong in 1993. The estimated combined value of these boats is $24.7 million.
Six boats, resembling the stolen boats, were subsequently reported seen in Chinese waters. The Chinese authorities and other authorities in the Asian Pacific region have been notified of the thefts and the reported sightings through Interpol. The Chinese authorities have been asked to investigate the sightings and to help locate the stolen boats. They have recently confirmed that they have seized five of the boats. The police are now seeking to make arrangements for the early return of these boats to Hong Kong.
The Crime Prevention Bureau of the police force has given advice to boat clubs, and other interested parties, on how to improve the security of luxury boats, through for example the use of immobilization devices and locks and alarms when the boat is not in use.
MR SIMON IP: Mr President, can the Secretary for Security tell us what has happened to the remaining boats sighted in Chinese waters but not seized by the Chinese authorities? And do the police have any idea where the other three stolen boats are or might be?
1342 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 8 December 1993 SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr President, I do not know and we do not know.
MRS MIRIAM LAU (in Cantonese): Mr President, there had been co-operation between the police and their Chinese counterpart in combating car theft activities. Will the Secretary inform this Council if the same channels will be pursued in combating boat theft activities?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr President, the police use the same channels, and I believe that co-operation in respect of these stolen boats has also been good. The fact that they have been, or some of them have now been, located in China is, I think, clear evidence of good co-operation.
MR ALBERT CHAN (in Cantonese): Mr President, the disappearance of the pleasure boats had received wide media coverage and it has been quite some time since the boats were stolen. Why does it take so long for the Government to get confirmation from the Chinese authorities that arrangement will be made for the return of the five vessels?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr President, the boats were stolen at various times during this year, but most were stolen in April to June this year. The sightings, I think, in Chinese waters were not reported until some time late in October. So I do not think it has taken an inordinate length of time for these sightings to be investigated and then to result in the seizure of the five boats.
REV FUNG CHI-WOOD (in Cantonese): Mr President, car theft activities were rampant some time ago and now even pleasure boats are stolen. Is there any evidence indicating that crime syndicates have improved their capabilities in the commission of crimes? Moreover, do the police have any idea which mode of transport will be their next target?
PRESIDENT: I think you had better identify which part of the Secretary's answer you want elucidated, Rev FUNG. It seems a very wide ranging supplementary.
REV FUNG CHI-WOOD (in Cantonese): Mr President, my point is that crime syndicates now set sight on pleasure boats because they are of higher value. Does this indicate that these syndicates have improved their capabilities in the commission of crimes? Since the police may take some preventive actions, do they have any idea what will be the next target of these syndicates?
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 8 December 1993 1343 PRESIDENT: Are you able to answer that question, Secretary, meaningfully? (Laughter)
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: I shall try and provide some comments on it, Mr President. I think it is not really appropriate to try to compare the theft of nine boats in 1993 with the theft of thousands of cars which we have seen in recent years. They are of a very different order. There is also at this stage no evidence to indicate that the same syndicates are involved. The police are still investigating these thefts and it is too early to speculate on who is responsible for them.
MR JAMES TIEN: Mr President, may I ask the Secretary whether the nine pleasure boats reported stolen were mainly stolen from private clubs or from government moorings?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr President, I do not know what sort of moorings they were on. Three were stolen from the Causeway Bay typhoon shelter and six from the Aberdeen typhoon shelter.
MRS SELINA CHOW (in Cantonese): Mr President, will the Secretary inform this Council if the stolen vessels sighted in Chinese waters or those which have now been seized had been used for "smuggling" or "drug-trafficking" purposes?
PRESIDENT: Do you have the answer, Secretary?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr President, as regards the six boats which were allegedly seen in Chinese waters — though reports of those sightings were made by members of the public in October and I think that they were all seen at an island to the southwest of Macau — I do not have any further information on them nor, I believe, is there any information that they have, either before or after they were stolen, been used in the commission of crimes.
MR JIMMY McGREGOR: Mr President, from the information given it would appear to me that there seems a likelihood of a syndicate type of operation. Does the Secretary have any information on whether individuals have been arrested by the Chinese police and charged?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr President, I would certainly agree that the theft of these nine boats indicates some degree of planning and organization. So there could possibly be a syndicate involved in these thefts. My understanding is
1344 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 8 December 1993
that the Chinese authorities are now trying to find out who is responsible for these thefts, who has had these boats in China, and are trying to bring prosecutions against the offender. But it is a matter on which the police are still liaising with the Chinese authorities.
MR JAMES TO (in Cantonese): Mr President, I have a follow-up to Mr McGREGOR's supplementary. Will the Secretary ask the Chinese authorities to provide information on these car and boat thefts, for example, to confirm whether the Chinese side is aware of any organized car or boat theft activities by syndicates or criminals on the mainland; and given the co-operation between China and Hong Kong in this respect, what measures has China taken to assist us?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr President, as I have said in answer to previous questions, there is, I believe, good co-operation between the Hong Kong and Chinese authorities and certainly the aim of that co-operation is to try to bring to justice those who have stolen these boats. But at the moment I do not have any information on that. I do not think that investigations have been concluded or any persons have been arrested.
MR SIMON IP: Mr President, can the Secretary for Security tell us whether any difficulties have been encountered in getting these boats back and, if not, when he anticipates having them back?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr President, no, I do not believe so although the police were only informed, I think, a few days ago that the boats had been traced. They will now be liaising with the authorities in China for the return of the boats. But I should say that it is possible that the Chinese authorities will wish to retain the boats for some time pending the completion of their own investigation of the thefts and the persons responsible.
Tertiary education development
6. MR TIK CHI-YUEN asked (in Cantonese): The Government has not conducted any public consultations on tertiary education since the publication of the White Paper on the Development of Senior Secondary and Tertiary Education and the report by a visiting panel in 1978 and 1982 respectively; nor did the Governor's policy address this year indicate the way forward for further development of tertiary education. Will the Government inform this Council of the following:
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(a) the specific policies and targets for further development of tertiary education, especially the development planning for the period 1994-1997; and the factors to be taken into consideration in setting the targets;
(b) whether the public will be consulted in setting the targets and the means by which public views will be consulted;
(c) when and on what criteria the target number of places will be set for various subsidized tertiary institutions for the next three years; and
(d) the corresponding measures adopted in respect of basic and sixth form education in line with the direction of developing tertiary education?
SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION AND MANPOWER (in Cantonese): Mr President, the planning cycle for the UPGC-funded institutions operates on a triennial basis. The current triennium covers development up to the academic year 1994-95. The next triennium will cover the period 1995-98. The University and Polytechnic Grants Committee (UPGC) submitted to the Government earlier this year an interim report on the development of higher education, including the indicative student number targets for the 1995-98 triennium. In recommending the overall indicative student number targets and the allocation of these targets among UPGC-funded institutions, the UPGC took into account the following factors:
(a) the Government's policy target of providing first-year first-degree places for at least 18% of the relevant age group;
(b) natural growth in student numbers as a result of the expansion of higher education in the 1992-95 triennium;
(c) the projected manpower requirements for Hong Kong in the next decade;
(d) the need to upgrade the quality of manpower in order to maintain Hong Kong's economic competitiveness; and
(e) factors affecting individual institutions, including their roles and missions, academic profiles, and the stage of development of the institutions.
Following the massive expansion of higher education between 1991 and 1995, the UPGC envisages that the 1995-98 triennium should be a period of consolidation. The intake of first-year-first-degree places is therefore likely to remain stable, while marginal increases may be made to the number of
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postgraduates. The UPGC's recommended indicative student number targets have since been approved by the Government for broad planning purposes. They have been communicated to the UPGC-funded institutions to enable them to formulate academic development proposals for the 1995-98 triennium.
The UPGC is currently in discussion with the institutions about their academic development proposals. Recommendations for recurrent grants to be allocated to the institutions will be submitted by the UPGC to the Government in late 1994. These will then be referred to the Finance Committee of this Council for consideration, in time for implementation in the 1995-98 triennium.
The Administration is in dialogue with the UPGC on a range of issues concerning the future development of higher education. Among the issues under consideration is the manner in which consultation may be undertaken on this important subject.
As regards the corresponding measures adopted in respect of basic and sixth form education, the Administration has already achieved the policy target of providing sixth form places for one third of the Secondary IV cohort. We have also made sure that these places are filled in the most effective manner. Tertiary education will also benefit from the series of qualitative improvements introduced in schools following successive Reports by the Education Commission.
MR TIK CHI-YUEN (in Cantonese): Mr President, as tertiary education keeps on expanding in recent years, does the Administration have any means or mechanism to ensure the quality of tertiary education and its cost effectiveness?
SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION AND MANPOWER (in Cantonese): Mr President, the UPGC attaches great importance to both quality and cost effectiveness. Quality assurance is the primary concern of tertiary institutions. The UPGC has been conducting regular reviews with tertiary institutions on the academic standards required in respect of certain disciplines or faculties. The UPGC is also prepared to have, on a regular basis, an overall qualitative assessment in future. It will hold further discussions with tertiary institutions on how qualitative assessment of UPGC-funded institutions can be carried out. The matter is still under discussion.
As regards cost effectiveness, the UPGC also recognizes that cost effectiveness of tertiary institutions need to be enhanced through monitoring of funds. The UPGC is now actively looking at a new set of funding methodology which will look more closely into funding in relation to performance. We are going to have more information on this, pending the completion of UPGC's study in due course.
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MR STEVEN POON (in Cantonese): Mr President, first of all, I have to declare interest as a member of the Council of the Hong Kong University of Science and Technology. May I refer to the Administration's reply in which it says that the University and Polytechnic Grants Committee submitted to the Government earlier this year an interim report on the development of higher education. The difference between university students now and those 20 years ago is that the former generally come from families living in housing estates and half of the students even do not have a room or a desk at home. Can the Administration inform this Council if the UPGC's report has recommended or that the Administration has considered raising the ratio of boarding places from the existing 30% to 50% or higher?
PRESIDENT: Are you able to answer that, Secretary?
SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION AND MANPOWER (in Cantonese): Mr President, the interim report of the UPGC did not deal specifically with the question of ancillary facilities. As regards increasing the ratio of boarding places of tertiary institutions, the Administration will look at the circumstances of each tertiary institution and consider it on a case-by-case basis. The Ningnan College for example is planning to build a new campus in Tuen Mun and it will be given a higher boarding places ratio to meet the needs of those students who otherwise have to travel a long way to school.
MR CHEUNG MAN-KWONG (in Cantonese): Mr President, recently there has been an over-admission of students in the seven UPGC-funded institutions. Can the Secretary inform this Council why there is an over-admission of students? How can they convince the public that over-admission will not affect the quality of education?
SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION AND MANPOWER (in Cantonese): Mr President, there were indeed some teething problems at the early stages of joint admission arising perhaps from the unfamiliarity with the operation of the system. However, according to the preliminary figures for this year, over-admission is only slightly over 2%. We consider it satisfactory and there is no cause for concern. As for quality, I am not sure whether the "quality" Mr CHEUNG referred to has anything to do with the "funding" of the UPGC, the size of which is based on the approved student number target of each institution, and funding will not be increased even if more students are admitted.
MR CHEUNG MAN-KWONG: Mr President, I want to have a follow-up question.
1348 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 8 December 1993 PRESIDENT: No, we have got to move on.
MR SIMON IP: Mr President, the answer says that the postgraduate enrolment will marginally increase. Given that Hong Kong will need in the next few years some 2 000 new tertiary teachers, should we not be considering increasing the postgraduate enrolment substantially in order to produce doctorate holders in order to supply our tertiary institutions?
SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION AND MANPOWER: Mr President, we are still in discussion with the UPGC about the exact amount of increase for postgraduate enrolment in the 1995-98 triennium. We shall take into account a whole range of factors including the need to strengthen training for teachers and demands of various sectors. So we are still in the discussion mode and will be happy to listen to suggestions and views.
Written answers to questions
Design of school chairs and desks
7. MR Timothy HA asked (in Chinese): According to a recent study conducted among students in the United Kingdom, defects in the design of chairs and desks used in classrooms have been the cause of back pain of many students. As indicated by the same study, 70% of the English students in the age group between six and 11 are using school chairs and desks which are not suitable for their stature.
Will the Government inform this Council:
(a) what procedures are being adopted in contracting out the supply of chairs and desks or procuring such furniture items for use of students in government and aided schools;
(b) whether the chairs and desks currently provided for students in government and aided schools were designed by specialists; if so, what kind of specialist was enlisted for their design; if not, why is specialist advice not sought; and
(c) whether the Education Department has paid attention to the suitability of the designs of chairs and desks in government and aided schools for use by students; if not, whether the Education Department will conduct a similar study to ensure that the students' health is well taken care of?
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SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION AND MANPOWER: Mr President, the answers to Mr HA's questions are as follows:
(a) Chairs and desks for use in the government schools are purchased through the Government Supplies Department, which conducts an annual tendering exercise. The successful tenderer is awarded a one-year contract. Schools then place orders for the furniture they require with the contractor.
Aided schools purchase their own furniture through their own tendering procedure. The expenses incurred are reimbursed by the Education Department. The schools' requirements and the tendering exercise are subject to vetting by the department.
(b) Chairs and desks in use in government and aided schools follow a standard design for four different age groups. It is based on the recommendations of the 1986 "Working Party on Standardization of Student Desks and Chairs for Local School Children". The Working Party comprised lecturers from the Department of Architecture and the Department of Industrial Engineering of the University of Hong Kong, school heads and staff of the Education Department. One of the lecturers was a specialist in ergonomics. The Director of Health was also consulted on the recommendations of the Working Party.
(c) The Education Department is very much aware of the need to have suitably designed chairs and desks for use by school children. That is the reason why their design was based on the recommendation of the multi-discipline working group.
Multi-Fibre Arrangement
8. DR DAVID LI asked: Will the Government inform this Council what actions have been or will be taken to secure an extension of the Multi-Fibre Arrangement which will expire at the end of this year?
SECRETARY FOR TRADE AND INDUSTRY: Mr President, as the Honourable Member has pointed out, the Multi-Fibre Arrangement (MFA) will expire at the end of this year. Under the textiles and clothing agreement being negotiated in the Uruguay Round of multilateral trade talks, restrictions maintained under the MFA will be phased out during a proposed 10-year transitional period. Delays in completing the Uruguay Round mean that, even if the round is completed by the deadline of 15 December this year, it will not be possible to implement the results until 1 January 1995 at the earliest. It is, therefore, necessary to extend the MFA, if only to bridge the one-year gap
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between the expiry of the MFA and the start of the proposed phase-out period under a possible Uruguay Round agreement.
We have foreseen this situation for some time and consulted the Textiles Advisory Board in May this year on negotiating instructions for an extension of the MFA. We have been working since then with the representatives of other textiles exporting economies in Geneva to co-ordinate a common position for the purpose of entering into negotiations with the importing countries on the extension of the MFA. Unfortunately, despite the initiatives taken by Hong Kong, many of the other parties concerned had been reluctant to enter into such negotiations before they had a clearer idea of the prospects for the successful conclusion of the Uruguay Round by the deadline of 15 December.
Such negotiations have recently begun in earnest at last. There is no reason to believe that an agreement to renew or extend the MFA will be reached before it expires at the end of 1993. In the unlikely event that negotiations should extend beyond that date, Hong Kong's position will be protected by the bilateral textiles agreements covering our main markets, all of which are valid until at least 31 December 1994.
Funding of subvented agencies
9. MR ROGER LUK asked: Will the Administration inform this Council whether there is any policy to encourage subvented agencies to become less dependent on government subvention as their principal source of finance?
SECRETARY FOR THE TREASURY: Mr President, there are two main alternatives to government subvention: fees and private donations.
Fees
In general, it is the Government's policy to require subvented agencies to meet part of their expenditure from fees. But our ability to require or encourage agencies to generate more income from this source depends on the nature of the service involved. If an agency is providing an essential social service, there will be little or no scope for raising revenue from the users of the service. For example, in the case of schools, it is the Government's policy to provide nine years of compulsory and free education; so there is no question of charging fees until a student reaches Form IV. As for health, the Government recently issued a consultation paper on the funding of hospital services. One of the options in the paper is the "percentage subsidy approach" whereby fees would be set at a certain percentage of operating costs. The Secretary for Health and Welfare is now considering the public response to the paper. The scope for increasing fee income in the social welfare field is severely limited because the main users of these services tend to be on low incomes.
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 8 December 1993 1351
Nonetheless, there are opportunities for agencies to raise more revenue themselves and to reduce their dependence on government subvention. The greatest opportunities exist in areas where agencies are providing services of a quasi-commercial nature. For example, the Hong Kong Productivity Council receives about half of its income from sources other than government subvention. Even in the social services field, there are areas where the Government expects agencies to raise a certain level of income from fees, with government subvention meeting the difference between the fee income and the recognized cost of the service. Examples include tertiary education and residential services for the elderly. If an agency manages to raise more than the assumed level of income, it can keep the excess without suffering any reduction in its subvention.
When the Hospital Authority is established, it is encouraged to maximize its own income. Whilst the income from fees payable before the setting-up of the Authority is deducted from its annual grant, revenue from new fees or other sources of income, such as the hiring of equipment or advertisements, will not be treated in the same way.
Private donations
Through their contacts with agencies, government officials do urge them to raise as much money as possible from private donations. This is particularly so for capital projects for which agencies are expected to make a significant contribution. For example, agencies have traditionally been required to contribute some 20% towards the cost of hospital projects and to meet the cost of furniture and equipment in schools.
Civil servants' job-related allowances
10. MR CHEUNG MAN-KWONG asked (in Chinese): Will the Government inform this Council:
(a) of the various types of job-related allowance applicable to a civil servant, the eligibility criteria and rates payable respectively for each type of allowance;
(b) whether the Government will undertake reviews of existing allowances such as home-to-office mileage allowance to ensure that they are still required and appropriate in the light of changing circumstances; and
(c) of the procedures for considering applications for changes to existing job-related allowances and new allowances and whether staff associations and this Council would be consulted beforehand?
1352 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 8 December 1993 SECRETARY FOR THE CIVIL SERVICE: Mr President,
(A) Job-related allowances are used to compensate staff for aspects of work not normally expected of their rank and not reflected in their pay scale. The general principles governing the eligibility for job-related allowances, endorsed by the Standing Commission on Civil Service Salaries and Conditions of Service, are as follows:
(a) With few exceptions, eligibility should be determined by reference to a cut off maximum pay point at MPS 33. Members of the administrative and professional grades are not eligible.
(b) Allowances should not be paid to officers unless extra or unusual duties are performed on a regular basis and these take up a substantial part of their time.
(c) The requirement to perform the extra or unusual duties is not normally inherent in the work, nor reflected in the pay scale of the officer's rank.
(d) Allowances will be granted where only a proportion of the staff in a rank (less than 75%) are engaged in such duties or where such duties are of a temporary nature. Where more than 75% of the staff in a rank are engaged in such duties, consideration will be given to incorporating the allowance into the pay scale of the rank.
Depending on the nature of duties, job-related allowances are classified into four broad categories:
(a) Extraneous Duties Allowance (EDA)
Extraneous Duties Allowances are to compensate staff who are regularly required to perform duties outside the scope of those normally performed by members of their rank or grade. There are mainly two types of extraneous duties allowance:
(i) EDA (Supplementary Duties) — this is paid broadly in two levels to recompense performance of supplementary duties requiring
different levels of special skill, for example, nurses operating
electro-encephalograph machines and court interpreters speaking a
special dialect.
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 8 December 1993 1353 The current monthly rates are $369 (level 1) and $492 (level 2).
(ii) EDA (Responsibility) — this is to recompense additional and higher responsibilities for which the payment of salaries or other forms of allowances may not be appropriate, for example, Assistant Masters performing headship duties in primary schools and clinical psychologists performing duties in a prison setting.
The rates of existing payments range from $33 per shift to three increments above the substantive salary.
(b) Hardship Allowance (HA)
Hardship Allowances are paid to compensate for duties which involve physical risks, health hazards or working environments which are particularly obnoxious or unpleasant in nature. There are three types of hardship allowances:
(i) Obnoxious Duties Allowance — this is to recompense obnoxious duties which involve direct, physical contact with obnoxious and filthy matter, for example, operational staff working in sewage treatment plants, incinerators, refuse collection points or workmen working in mortuary, cemetery or crematorium.
The current rate is $445 per month.
(ii) Dangerous Duties Allowance — this is to recompense dangerous duties whereby the presence of danger or hazard in the work location/situation is unavoidable, despite any precautionary measures that may have been taken, for example, staff working on road surfaces in the midst of heavy traffic or officers working at considerable heights.
The current rate is $544 per month.
(iii) HA (Management Considerations) — this is to recompense duties or working environments of a particularly unpleasant nature which do not fit into the dangerous or obnoxious category, for
1354 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 8 December 1993
example, civilian staff working in penal/correctional institutions
and clerical staff performing cash delivery duties in the Mobile
Payment Team of the Social Welfare Department.
The current rate ranges from $6.5 per day to $544 per month.
(c) Shift Duty Allowance (SDA) — this is to compensate staff for the inconvenience of having to work irregular hours or shifts without the provision of operational quarters, for example USD/RSD staff deployed in cleansing duties.
The current rates are:
- $298 per month for a minimum of 25 irregular hours worked per month;
- $591 per month for 50 or more irregular hours worked per month.
(d) Special Allowance — this is to cover exceptional circumstances for which the payment of other job-related allowances is inappropriate, for example, teaching and instructional staff engaged in special education.
The rates of existing payments range from $59 per day to two increments above the substantive salary.
(B) Job-related allowances are administered by Heads of Department who are directly responsible for ensuring that continual payment is justified at all times in accordance with the criteria laid down when approval was first given. As a matter of policy, regular reviews, at intervals of no more than two years, are required to be carried out to confirm that an allowance is still justified. Notwithstanding this, where there are changes in operational requirements or other circumstances which render the original justifications invalid, the allowance will forthwith cease to be paid.
Civil Service Branch also undertakes periodic reviews of service-wide allowances. For example, in 1992, Extraneous Duty Allowance (Supplementary Duties) for typists operating word processors was withdrawn because, over the years, word processors
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 8 December 1993 1355
had become standard office equipment facilitating typing duties rather than requiring special skills to operate.
Home-to-office mileage allowance is payable to officers who are authorized to use their own cars for regular official duties outside their office and in the New Territories. The provision obviates the need to use government transport for such journeys. The allowance is payable after deducting a notional home-to-office travelling cost based on an average public transport cost which is updated annually. The existing formula for calculating the allowance was approved by the Finance Committee.
(C) Any changes to the payment criteria or the basis for determining the rates of existing categories of allowances will require the approval of Civil Service Branch and Finance Branch. Where major changes are involved, the advice of the Standing Commission on Civil Service Salaries and Conditions of Service is also sought. If the original payment criteria or the basis for determining the rates were approved by the Finance Committee (FC), or if the financial implications of any changes exceed the delegated authority of the Secretary for the Treasury, such proposals will also be referred to FC for approval.
Within existing payment criteria, Heads of Department may approve new cases of Extraneous Duties Allowance (Supplementary Duties), Hardship Allowance (Dangerous Duties), Hardship Allowance (Obnoxious Duties) and Shift Duty Allowance. The Secretary for the Civil Service will, upon advice from the Standing Commission, where appropriate, and in consultation with the Finance Branch, approve new cases of Hardship Allowance (Management Consideration), Extraneous Duties Allowance (Responsibility) and any other special allowances.
The Standing Commission's advice and the approval of FC are required for the introduction of any new category of job-related allowances. Staff are usually consulted on any changes to existing allowances which directly affect them.
Structural examination of buildings in northwestern New Territories and Lantau
11. MR CHIM PUI-CHUNG asked (in Chinese): Will the Government inform this Council:
(a) whether structural examination of the buildings in northwestern New Territories and Lantau Island has been carried out after the flooding caused by the torrential rain in early November;
1356 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 8 December 1993 (b) of the results of the examination and the follow-up actions to be taken; and (c) if such examination has not been carried out, what the reasons are?
SECRETARY FOR PLANNING, ENVIRONMENT AND LANDS: Mr President, owners who are concerned about the safety of their buildings after flooding or heavy rain should normally seek professional advice. Where there is more immediate concern, a report should be made to the Dangerous Buildings Section of the Buildings Department.
Following the heavy rain in early November 1993, 40 structures were inspected by the Buildings Department after reports of possible danger were received. Fourteen structures were closed or vacated. Follow-up action to ensure the structures are safe is being taken by the Buildings Department where they are on private land. Where structures are on government land, the Lands Department will arrange evacuation and demolition as required. When structures are closed, temporary shelter is arranged by the City and New Territories Administration.
Airport taxi service
12. MR HOWARD YOUNG asked: Will the Government inform this Council whether there has been any improvement, in terms of taxi throughput and passengers' waiting time, to the taxi service for passengers arriving at the airport, since the airport bus stop was relocated away from the taxi stand a few months ago?
SECRETARY FOR TRANSPORT: Mr President, to improve public transport facilities for airport passengers, the airport bus terminus was relocated and the area of the two airport taxi stands extended in October 1992.
Since these rearrangements, the Transport Department has conducted several surveys to monitor the effect on taxi throughput and passengers' waiting time. The results have been encouraging as borne out by the latest survey last weekend and which are broadly consistent with and confirm earlier findings:
(a) the averaged hourly taxi throughput during peak periods has increased from 410 to 450, representing a 10% improvement; and
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 8 December 1993 1357
(b) the average waiting time for a taxi has reduced from 6.7 minutes before the extension was put in place to 5.2 minutes now or by 22%.
An overall improvement in taxi services at the airport has therefore been achieved.
ICAC's new employment checking unit
13. MR HENRY TANG asked: On the proposal to set up a new unit in the Independent Commission Against Corruption for employment checking of officers filling specified government posts, will the Government inform this Council:
(a) in what way will the vetting be different from that currently carried out by the Special Branch;
(b) what other aspects will be covered apart from checking for possible corruption; (c) what forms will the investigation take apart from record checking; and (d) what are the posts which will be subject to such vetting?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr President,
(a) The difference is administrative in nature. For a small number of posts requiring a high degree of trust, the co-ordination of the record checks and interviews will in future be conducted by the ICAC. The nature of the checks will remain unchanged.
(b) There will, as before, be checks for involvement in crime, corruption, and other activities which might cast doubt upon a civil servant's integrity.
(c) The process will continue to require the verification of information provided by the civil servant by means of interviews with himself and with referees.
(d) Such checks will be required of those occupying a limited number of posts of particular sensitivity or trust, at Deputy Secretary/Deputy Director level and above.
1358 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 8 December 1993 Transfer of security checks work from SB of the police to ICAC
14. MR JIMMY McGREGOR asked: Will the Government inform this Council of the specific reasons for transferring responsibility for security checks and reports on senior officers of the Government from the Special Branch of the police to the Independent Commission Against Corruption, in particular whether the transfer denotes any concern within the Government over the capability of the Special Branch to carry out such checks efficiently and with moral integrity, and whether the developing political situation of Hong Kong has made the transfer necessary?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr President, the reasons for transferring responsibility for these checks to the ICAC are:
(a) to reflect their main purpose which is to verify the integrity of civil servants in posts requiring a high degree of trust; and
(b) to reallocate an administrative function which the Special Branch will find increasingly difficult to perform as its staff is reduced in number.
The transfer of responsibility in no way denotes any concern within the Government over the efficiency and moral integrity of Special Branch, nor is it connected with the political situation in Hong Kong.
Contract with the Public Affairs Adviser
15. MISS EMILY LAU asked: Regarding the Government's contract with the Public Affairs Adviser (PAA), will the Administration inform this Council:
(a) when it will expire;
(b) whether it will be renewed and what the new contract period will be; and
(c) whether the renewal will have to be approved by the Finance Committee; if not, who is the approving authority?
SECRETARY FOR HOME AFFAIRS: Mr President, the contract for the service of the Public Affairs Adviser will expire on 31 August 1994. We are not yet in a position to make a decision on whether the contract should be renewed. If the contract is to be renewed, any charge to public funds will be in accordance with the established authorities and limits for the incurrence of public expenditure.
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 8 December 1993 1359 Gateball courts
16. MR TAM YIU-CHUNG asked (in Chinese): In view of the inadequate provision of sites for the playing of gateball which is a ball game very suitable for the elderly, will the Government inform this Council whether consideration will be given to promoting the game by providing more gateball courts especially in public housing estates; if so, what the specific plans are?
SECRETARY FOR RECREATION AND CULTURE: Mr President, it is not true to say that there is inadequate provision of sites to play gateball.
Gateball can be played on any flat grassed area measuring 15 m by 20 m. There are at present three designated gateball courts, one each in Sha Tin, Yuen Long and Tuen Mun. In addition, grass pitches within sports grounds can also be used for gateball activities. There are 28 such grass pitches available, 15 in the Urban Council area and 13 in the Regional Council area. Altogether a total of 31 venues are therefore available for playing gateball.
Another 19 purpose-built gateball courts are either under construction or planning by the municipal councils. The Housing Department is also considering converting a site in the Kwong Fuk Estate in Tai Po into its first gateball court as part of the 1994-95 Improvement Programme. If other suitable sites can be identified within public housing estates, the Housing Department will consider constructing more gateball courts for residents.
To promote the game of gateball, the municipal councils have organized a total of 68 events including competitions and training courses, for over 6 000 participants in 1992-93.
Traffic accidents on Kwun Tong Bypass
17. MR FRED LI asked (in Chinese): As traffic accidents frequently occurred on the Kwun Tong Bypass since its commissioning, and recently there was even a spate of serious traffic accidents, will the Government inform this Council of the following:
(a) the number of traffic accidents which occurred on the bypass since its commissioning and the casualties involved;
(b) whether these traffic accidents occurred mostly on or near the same locations;
(c) the causes for such accidents; whether they are related to the design of the bypass; and the improvement measures in place to reduce the number of traffic accidents there?
1360 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 8 December 1993
SECRETARY FOR TRANSPORT: Mr President, the Kwun Tong Bypass was opened in June 1991. As regards accidents on this expressway, details are as follows:
(a) Up to the period ending October 1993, there have been a total of 211 traffic accidents resulting in 389 casualties including three fatalities.
(b) There is no particular blackspot — the majority of accidents did not occur at or near the same locations but took place along the entire length of the road.
(c) Police investigations indicate that the main causes of the accidents were excessive speed, drivers following too closely to the vehicle in front and careless lane changing. There is no evidence to suggest that the design of the road is a factor. Indeed the accident rate on this road is lower than the average for other expressways.
To help reduce the number of accidents, the police have mounted regular patrols and these have resulted in the detection of 2 300 offences since the beginning of 1992. In addition, the Transport Department is considering the erection of more warning signs to give advance notice of bends in the road and locations where traffic merges.
Entry visas for Taiwan students
18. MR FREDERICK FUNG asked (in Chinese): Will the Government inform this Council whether entry visas would be issued to students from Taiwan who have been admitted by the tertiary institutions to pursue their studies in Hong Kong; if not, what the reasons are; and whether there are any other countries or territories from which students are subject to similar entry restrictions and what the reasons are?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr President, tertiary institutions are permitted to enrol non-local students at sub-degree, first degree and taught postgraduate levels up to a maximum of 2% over and above the approved student number targets.
Students from Taiwan and elsewhere admitted by the tertiary institutions under this policy may apply for visas to study here. A number have been admitted in the past.
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 8 December 1993 1361 Psychiatric service in public hospitals
19. MR MICHAEL HO asked (in Chinese): As psychiatric service is not provided in many public hospitals, will the Government inform this Council:
(a) whether psychiatric patients will be given treatment by psychiatrists when they approach the Accident and Emergency Department of public hospitals for treatment and how long the waiting time is;
(b) on average, how long these patients have to wait at the Accident and Emergency Department before relevant legal documents are issued under the Mental Health Ordinance for their admission to mental hospitals; and
(c) whether patients in hospitals without psychiatric service can be treated by psychiatrists from other hospitals whenever necessary, and how long they generally have to wait for such service?
SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE: Mr President, the answers, seriatim, are as follows:
(a) all patients attending the Accident and Emergency Departments of public hospitals will be treated by medical staff with professional training to handle a full range of emergencies, including psychiatric illnesses. Subject to triage, urgent cases will receive immediate treatment, while the average waiting time for other cases is less than 30 minutes;
(b) patients who volunteer for admission to psychiatric hospitals from Accident and Emergency Departments do not have to wait. However, for those admitted under the Mental Health Ordinance, the actual waiting time would vary due to the need for compliance with relevant provisions for authorization by a medical doctor and a judge.
(c) patients in general hospitals who suffer severe symptoms will be referred under the Mental Health Ordinance for treatment in psychiatric institutions. In practice, such referrals are made on the basis of clinical judgment and there is no waiting time for admission. With the introduction of networking, advice and consultation services on psychiatric cases are shared between public hospitals. The average waiting time of consultations for non-urgent cases is within three days.
1362 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 8 December 1993 Acceptance of new coins by LRT
20. MR WONG WAI-YIN asked (in Chinese): Although almost a year has elapsed since the issue of new coins in Hong Kong, due to problems in resolving some contractual issues, one-third of the ticket machines of the Light Rail Transit (including all machines at the Tin Shui Wai line) still cannot accept the new coins for the selling of tickets, thus causing great inconvenience to the residents. Will the Government inform this Council whether it is aware of the contractual issues involved; if so, how and when the problem would be resolved; and what measures are in place to minimize the inconvenience caused to the residents before the ticket machines can be adjusted?
SECRETARY FOR TRANSPORT: Mr President, there are 361 ticket vending machines (TVMs) on the Light Rail Transit System (LRT). Of this number, 215 TVMs were modified by March 1993 and can accept the new coins. The remaining 146 TVMs have been provided by a different supplier in response to a subsequent tender exercise to meet requirements along extensions to the system including the Tin Shui Wai extension. Regrettably, this latter batch of TVMs failed to meet the standards specified in the contract. This has resulted in a dispute with the supplier which, in turn, has complicated and delayed the modification of these TVMs to enable them to accept new coins. On the advice of the corporation's legal advisers, the release of further details of the dispute at this stage could undermine Kowloon-Canton Railway Corporation's (KCRC) claims for redress.
Despite the dispute, KCRC has been anxious to find a practical solution and has now managed to develop a modified mechanism which will accept the new coins. This is now being field-tested and subject to satisfactory results, the 146 TVMs will be adjusted by end of January 1994. The problem will then be solved.
Meanwhile, to minimize the inconvenience caused to passengers, the corporation has had some success in persuading more commuters to travel on multi-ride passes. According to KCRC, the number of LRT passengers using multi-ride passes has increased from 49% in April 1993 to 57% in November 1993.
Motions
EMPLOYEES' COMPENSATION ORDINANCE
THE SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION AND MANPOWER moved the following motion:
That, with effect from 1 January 1994, the Employees' Compensation Ordinance be amended as follows—
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 8 December 1993 1363 (a) in section 6 -
(i) in subsection (2), by repealing "$183,000" and substituting "$219,000"; and (ii) in subsection (5), by repealing "$10,000" and substituting "$12,000"; (b) in section 7(2), by repealing "$207,000" and substituting "$248,000"; (c) in section 8(4), by repealing "$248,000" and substituting "$297,000";
(d) in section 11(5), by repealing "$1,450" where it twice occurs and substituting "$2,250";
(e) in section 16A(10) -
(i) in paragraph (a), by repealing "$300" and substituting "$350"; and (ii) in paragraph (b), by repealing "$600" and substituting "$700";
(f) in section 17A(1) -
(i) in paragraph (a), by repealing "$300" and substituting "$350"; and (ii) in paragraph (b), by repealing "$600" and substituting "$700";
(g) in section 36C, by repealing "$20,000" and substituting "$24,000"; (h) in section 36J, by repealing "$62,000" and substituting "$74,000"; and
(i) in paragraphs 1(b), 2(b) and 3 of the Third Schedule, by repealing "$90" and substituting "$120".
He said: Mr President, I move the first motion standing in my name on the Order Paper.
The purpose of this resolution is to revise the levels of compensation and certain compensation-related items under the Employees' Compensation Ordinance. It is our policy to review the levels of compensation every two years to take account of wage movements, inflation and other changes. Existing
1364 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 8 December 1993
levels of compensation have been in force since 1 January 1992 and are now due for revision.
Members may recall that the Employees' Compensation (Amendment) Ordinance 1993 passed by this Council on 21 July 1993 revised the maximum levels of compensation which will come into force on 1 January 1994. This resolution deals with the revision of the minimum levels of compensation and medical expenses.
We propose to increase the minimum levels of compensation for death from $183,000 to $219,000, and for permanent total incapacity from $207,000 to $248,000. The maximum amount of compensation for care and attention will also be revised from $248,000 to $297,000. This represents an increase of about 19.7% over the existing levels and is in line with the increase in nominal wages in the past two years.
We also propose to raise the ceiling of two other items of compensation. These include increasing the maximum amount of compensation for burial expenses from $10,000 to $12,000; and increasing the maximum payments by an employer towards the costs of supplying and fitting a prosthesis or a surgical appliance from $20,000 to $24,000, and for its repair and renewal from $62,000 to $74,000 respectively.
We also propose to raise the maximum daily reimbursement of medical expenses from $90 to $120. This proposal has taken into account the increase in fees charged by public hospitals and clinics since 1992.
We also propose to revise the amount that is deemed to be the minimum earnings per month for the purpose of calculating compensation from $1,450 to $2,250. The proposed increase serves to keep the deemed minimum earnings of an injured employee broadly in line with the existing rate of payment to a single person under the Comprehensive Social Security Assistance Scheme.
Finally, we propose that for late payment of compensation, the minimum amount of surcharge imposed upon expiry of the payment period be increased from $300 to $350, and the minimum additional surcharge imposed upon expiry of three months after the payment period be increased from $600 to $700.
These proposals have been endorsed by the Labour Advisory Board and I recommend them to this Council for approval. If approved, they will come into effect from 1 January 1994.
Mr President, I beg to move.
Question on the motion proposed, put and agreed to.
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 8 December 1993 1365 PNEUMOCONIOSIS (COMPENSATION) ORDINANCE
THE SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION AND MANPOWER moved the following motion:
That, with effect from 1 January 1994, the Pneumoconiosis (Compensation) Ordinance be amended as follows —
(a) in Part VI of the First Schedule, by repealing "$10,000" and substituting "$12,000"; and
(b) in paragraphs 1(b), 2(b) and 3 of Part I of the Second Schedule, by repealing "$90" and substituting "$120".
He said: Mr President, I move the second motion standing in my name on the Order Paper.
Members may recall that the Pneumoconiosis (Compensation) Ordinance was amended in July 1993 whereby a new compensation package for pneumoconiotics was introduced and the levels of compensation under the Ordinance have been improved.
The purpose of this resolution is to revise the rates of funeral and medical expenses payable under the Ordinance which are identical to those specified in the Employees' Compensation Ordinance. As the rates of such expenses under the Employees' Compensation Ordinance have just been raised by a resolution of this Council, I propose that similar revision be made under the Pneumoconiosis (Compensation) Ordinance. The new rates will also come into effect from 1 January 1994.
Mr President, I beg to move.
Question on the motion proposed, put and agreed to.
First Reading of Bills
CONSUMER GOODS SAFETY BILL
AIR POLLUTION CONTROL (AMENDMENT) (NO. 2) BILL 1993
PROTECTION OF WAGES ON INSOLVENCY (AMENDMENT) (NO. 2) BILL 1993
Bills read the First time and ordered to be set down for Second Reading pursuant to Standing Order 41(3).
1366 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 8 December 1993 Second Reading of Bills
CONSUMER GOODS SAFETY BILL
THE SECRETARY FOR TRADE AND INDUSTRY moved the Second Reading of: "A Bill to impose a duty on manufacturers, importers and suppliers of certain consumer goods to ensure that the consumer goods they supply are safe and for incidental purposes."
SECRETARY FOR TRADE AND INDUSTRY: Mr President, I move that the Consumer Goods Safety Bill be read the Second time.
There are already a number of specific safety control schemes specially tailored for individual classes of consumer goods such as foodstuffs, gas appliances and pharmaceuticals. However, the supply of most consumer goods in Hong Kong is not subject to any statutory safety control.
In order to protect the public from unsafe consumer goods, the Bill seeks to impose a statutory duty on manufacturers, importers and suppliers of consumer goods to ensure that the goods they supply for consumption in Hong Kong are reasonably safe. The Bill will be enforced by the Commissioner of Customs and Excise, who will act on complaints and also conduct spot checks.
The Bill is based largely on the recommendations of a Working Group on Consumer Products Safety, which comprised government officials and representatives from the Consumer Council as well as relevant trade and industrial organizations.
The proposed scheme of control mainly follows that set out in the Toys and Children's Products Safety Ordinance, which came into effect in July this year. However, in recognition of the wide range of consumer goods available in Hong Kong and the fact that Hong Kong is a very small market for most manufacturers of consumer goods, the Working Group did not consider it practicable for Hong Kong to prescribe safety standards for each and every class of consumer goods available for local consumption. We decided therefore to follow the control regime in the United Kingdom Consumer Protection Act by introducing a general safety requirement. Under this requirement, manufacturers, importers and suppliers of consumer goods have a statutory duty to ensure that the goods they supply for local consumption are reasonably safe.
In this regard, clause 4 of the Bill provides guidelines to the court and suppliers of consumer goods for assessing compliance with the general safety requirement. These include:
first, the manner in which, and the purpose for which, the consumer goods are presented, promoted or marketed;
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 8 December 1993 1367
- second, the use of any mark in relation to the consumer goods and instructions or warnings given for the keeping, use or consumption of the consumer goods;
- third, reasonable safety standards published by a standards institute applying to a particular description of consumer goods; and
- fourth, the existence of any reasonable means to make the consumer goods safer.
In addition to general safety requirement, clause 30 of the Bill will empower the Secretary for Trade and Industry to prescribe statutory safety standards for specific consumer goods and, in extreme cases, to prohibit the supply of certain consumer goods.
To facilitate compliance with the General Safety Requirement or any prescribed safety standards, suppliers of consumer goods may, on a voluntary basis, have their products tested by a laboratory approved by the Director-General of Industry. It is intended that approved laboratories will include laboratories accredited under the Hong Kong Laboratory Accreditation Scheme and overseas laboratories with equal standing. In case of prosecution, the supplier may use a testing certificate issued by an approved laboratory showing that a product complies with a certain safety standard as a defence of due diligence.
The Bill also provides for a safety control notice system. This will serve as a remedial measure to cover the period between the discovery of unsafe consumer goods and any subsequent conviction in court. Under this system, the Commissioner of Customs and Excise will be empowered to issue a "notice to warn", requiring the supplier of consumer goods to publish a warning that specified goods may be unsafe unless certain steps are taken; a "prohibition notice" to prohibit the supply of unsafe consumer goods for a specified period of time; and, in extreme cases, a "recall notice" to recall those consumer goods already sold but which will cause a significant risk to consumers.
As a safeguard against any abuse of enforcement powers, the Bill establishes an appeal board panel to hear appeals againest notices issued or certain decisions made by the commissioner. An appeal board will be chaired by a legal practitioner and will comprise, as members, a general consumer, a scientist with relevant expertise in consumer goods testing and a person from the consumer goods industry. In addition, clause 32 stipulates that if the goods seized or detained by the enforcement authority are subsequently found to be safe, the owner of the goods may seek compensation from the Government for any loss suffered by him as a result of the wrongful seizure or detention.
The Bill provides exemption for goods under transhipment or in transit through Hong Kong and goods manufactured for export. Those goods appearing in the Schedule will also be exempted either because they are
1368 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 8 December 1993
governed by specific statutory control schemes or because specific legislation governing their safety is being prepared.
Upon enactment of the Bill, a grace period of one year will be allowed for the trade and industry to make any necessary adjustments before the legislation comes into operation.
Bill referred to the House Committee pursuant to Standing Order 42(3A).
AIR POLLUTION CONTROL (AMENDMENT) (NO. 2) BILL 1993
THE SECRETARY FOR PLANNING, ENVIRONMENT AND LANDS moved the Second Reading of: "A Bill to amend the Air Pollution Control Ordinance."
He said: Mr President, I move that the Air Pollution Control (Amendment) (No. 2) Bill 1993 be read the Second time.
Pollution from diesel vehicle emissions is causing serious air pollution problems in our urban areas. Approximately 75% of the total urban respirable particulates and nitrogen oxides, and 40% of sulphur dioxide are attributable to emissions from diesel-engined vehicles. Better controls on such emissions are therefore needed.
One of the ways to effectively reduce emissions from diesel vehicles is to introduce better quality diesel fuel. As yet, there is no legislation to control diesel fuel quality. The current proposal will allow us to adopt the European standard of no more than 0.2% of sulphur content for diesel fuel. This will clear the way for a requirement, in April 1995, that all new diesel engines conform to higher emission standards.
The proposal for better quality diesel fuel has been discussed with the local oil industry. As a result, the refineries in Singapore, which are the current main source of oil supply for Hong Kong, are now installing extra desulphurization units. The units should be completed by early 1995 and the fuel should be available in Hong Kong by April of that year.
The Bill will consolidate control on motor vehicle fuel. Clauses 4 to 8 of the amendment Bill repeal the existing control provisions on unleaded petrol in the main Ordinance and re-enact them in a new regulation. This new Air Pollution Control (Motor Vehicle Fuel) Regulation, which will be made after the Bill has passed into law, will also contain the new control provisions for motor vehicle diesel fuel.
The introduction of higher quality diesel fuel will not have major economic implications. No modification to the engines of diesel vehicles is required. There will be an increase of about 3% in the pump price of
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 8 December 1993 1369
automotive diesel fuel, and this is estimated to lead to an increase of less than 1% in the operating cost for the transport and freight operators.
I will now turn briefly to a further amendment to the Air Pollution Control Ordinance prepared under this amendment Bill. The existing provisions under the Ordinance require owners of all premises, where specified processes which have significant potential for causing air pollution are conducted, to give notice in response to an order under section 19(1) published in the Gazette. It is recognized that this notification requirement needs clarification because the notification applies irrespective of whether the owners have given notices previously or are already subject to licence control. Clause 3 of the Bill amends section 19 of the Ordinance to clarify who is not required to give notice.
Mr President, high concentrations of air pollutants such as nitrogen dioxide and particulates are a widespread problem in Hong Kong and present a threat to the health of people exposed to these pollutants. The introduction of higher quality diesel will reduce the sulphur dioxide emissions from diesel vehicles by up to 40%. Furthermore, it will enable a more stringent emission standard, comparable to the European standard called Euro 1, to be imposed on new vehicles; this will cut other pollutants such as particulates and nitrogen dioxides. This measure, together with other control measures in the pipeline — such as higher penalties for smoky vehicles and a more stringent inspection and maintenance programme — should result in a significant imporvement in air quality in the urban areas.
Thank you, Mr President.
Bill referred to the House Committee pursuant to Standing Order 42(3A).
PROTECTION OF WAGES ON INSOLVENCY (AMENDMENT) (NO. 2) BILL 1993
THE SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION AND MANPOWER moved the Second Reading of: "A Bill to amend the Protection of Wages on Insolvency Ordinance."
He said: Mr President, I move the Second Reading of the Protection of Wages on Insolvency (Amendment) (No. 2) Bill 1993.
The Bill seeks to protect the interest of the Protection of Wages on Insolvency Fund.
At present, Part VA of the Employment Ordinance provides that severance payment and retirement scheme payment can be set off against each other. When an employer becomes insolvent, his employee would normally apply to the fund for severance payment if he has not yet received his
1370 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 8 December 1993
retirement scheme payment. He may be granted ex gratia severance payment if he has satisfied the statutory requirements of the fund. Because of the time lapse, the employee may still receive his retirement scheme payment by virtue of his employment contract with the insolvent employer afterwards. Consequently, the employee may receive double benefits from both the fund and the retirement scheme to which he is a member.
To rectify this anomaly, we propose to empower the Protection of Wages on Insolvency Fund Board to recover from a retirement scheme any ex gratia payment in respect of severance payment made to the employee. In the amendment Bill, we also define "retirement scheme" and "severance payment" to clarify the employee's entitlement to ex gratia severance payment and to facilitate the Protection of Wages on Insolvency Fund Board to recover the ex gratia severance payment made to an employee.
Thank you, Mr President.
Bill referred to the House Committee pursuant to Standing Order 42(3A).
BILLS OF LADING AND ANALOGOUS SHIPPING DOCUMENTS BILL Resumption of debate on Second Reading which was moved on 17 November 1993 Question on the Second Reading of the Bill proposed, put and agreed to. Bill read the Second time.
Bill committed to a Committee of the whole Council pursuant to Standing Order 43(1).
QUARANTINE AND PREVENTION OF DISEASE (AMENDMENT) BILL 1993 Resumption of debate on Second Reading which was moved on 10 November 1993 Question on the Second Reading of the Bill proposed, put and agreed to. Bill read the Second time.
Bill committed to a Committee of the whole Council pursuant to Standing Order 43(1).
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 8 December 1993 1371 CENSUS AND STATISTICS (AMENDMENT) BILL 1993
Resumption of debate on Second Reading which was moved on 17 November 1993 Question on the Second Reading of the Bill proposed, put and agreed to. Bill read the Second time.
Bill committed to a Committee of the whole Council pursuant to Standing Order 43(1).
Committee stage of Bills
Council went into Committee.
BILLS OF LADING AND ANALOGOUS SHIPPING DOCUMENTS BILL Clauses 1 to 4 and 6 to 9 were agreed to.
Clause 5
ATTORNEY GENERAL: Mr Chairman, I move that clause 5 be amended as set out in the paper circulated to Members.
Clause 5(3) provides that the original shipper of goods and the carrier or shipowner remain liable under the contract for the carriage of the goods. The proposed amendment to the Chinese text of that clause will make it clear that the person referred to is a person who was an original party to the contract of carriage, that is, the original shipper or the carrier or shipowner.
Mr Chairman, I beg to move.
Proposed amendment
Clause 5
That clause 5(3) be amended by deleting“該㆟”and substituting“任何㆟”. Question on the amendment proposed, put and agreed to.
Question on clause 5, as amended, proposed, put and agreed to.
1372 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 8 December 1993 QUARANTINE AND PREVENTION OF DISEASE (AMENDMENT) BILL 1993 Clauses 1 to 17 were agreed to.
CENSUS AND STATISTICS (AMENDMENT) BILL 1993
Clauses 1 and 2 were agreed to.
Council then resumed.
Third Reading of Bills
THE ATTORNEY GENERAL reported that the
BILLS OF LADING AND ANALOGOUS SHIPPING DOCUMENTS BILL had passed through Committee with an amendment and the
QUARANTINE AND PREVENTION OF DISEASE (AMENDMENT) BILL 1993 CENSUS AND STATISTICS (AMENDMENT) BILL 1993
had passed through Committee without amendment. He moved the Third Reading of the Bills.
Question on the Third Reading of the Bills proposed, put and agreed to. Bills read the Third time and passed.
Members' motions
PRESIDENT: I have accepted the recommendations of the House Committee as to time limits on speeches for the motion debates and Members were informed by circular on 6 December. The mover of the motion will have 15 minutes for his speech including his reply; other Members will have seven minutes for their speeches. Under Standing Order 27A, I am required to direct any Member speaking in excess of the specified time to discontinue his speech.
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 8 December 1993 1373 CARE AND ATTENTION HOMES
MR HUI YIN-FAT moved the following motion:
"That this Council urges the Government to expeditiously review the supply and demand, as well as the staffing situation, of services provided by care and attention homes and their relationship with infirmary beds, having regard to the prolonged occupation of a relatively large number of places in care and attention homes by infirm patients as a result of the acute shortfall of infirmary beds for the elderly under the auspices of the Hospital Authority, which has led to an increasingly short supply of care and attention places, the Government's forthcoming implementation of a licensing system for private homes for the aged, which will increase the pressure on such services, as well as the difficulties in recruiting nursing staff because of the welfare agencies' lack of resources to offer remuneration on a par with that of the Hospital Authority, so as to work out short-term contingency measures and long-term solutions."
MR HUI YIN-FAT (in Cantonese): Mr President, I move the motion on care and attention homes standing in my name on the Order Paper.
The most worrying aspect of geriatric care in Hong Kong has mainly to do with infirmary beds in care and attention homes. We have programmes that encourage elderly people to take a positive and bright outlook on life, to enjoy their ripe old age. Yet, as time takes its toll on their physical faculties, it is natural for elderly people to become dependent on medical and nursing care. Such dependency increases with a person's age. Unfortunately, however, the costs of the services are high. The Government's spending in this regard is simply unable to cope with the needs of the elderly. The rising trend of suicides among elderly people in Hong Kong in recent years is mainly attributable to the fact that many elderly are not provided with timely care and attention and think that death is a relief. Elderly suicides are tragic; it is bitterly ironical that such cases should happen in a prosperous and highly civilized community. As the social services sector's representative in this Council, it is incumbent upon me to advise the Government on that front and to seek honourable colleagues' support for this motion. I hope that the passage of the motion will achieve three aims, as follows:
1. to urge the Government to take immediate action to work out concrete and workable measures which could meet elderly people's needs in the area of care and attention services;
2. to arouse public awareness of the problems and serve as an important basis for this Council's future supervision of the Government's work in these areas; and
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3. to provide a preliminary basis for this Council's upcoming deliberations on the Residential Care Homes (Elderly Persons) Bill 1993. The Bill will make a critical difference in ensuring adequate care and attention services for the elderly.
There are mainly two types of care and attention homes for the elderly in Hong Kong: those in the public sector and those in the private sector. In the public sector, the Government acts through the Hospital Authority (HA) and the Social Welfare Department (SWD) to provide medical and nursing services to the elderly in care and attention homes. HA is involved in only one aspect of such services. It provides infirmary beds for elderly persons with conditions that are medically certified as serious so that they can receive long term medical attention. SWD, on the other hand, provides residential elderly care places primarily consisting of care and attention places, places in homes for the aged and places in self-help homes. Where circumstances warrant, SWD saves resources by putting infirmary beds in care and attention homes and care and attention beds in homes for the aged. Where the private sector is concerned, it used to be very difficult to make money from the provision of social welfare services. However, given the existence of a huge market and the woefully inadequate public sector services, private sector services are now providing more than half of the services in the marketplace.
As colleagues may be aware, Hong Kong's care and attention homes are facing some problems. There is a long-standing shortage of services vis-a-vis an increasing demand. The quality of services varies and threatens to decline. According to statistics made public in the Governor's policy address, before the current financial year ends, there will be 5 400 elderly people on the waiting list for infirmary beds under HA's management. SWD's five-year social welfare development plan review notes that there will be a shortfall of 2 890 care and attention beds in the current financial year. It is understandable why there is an acute shortage of infirmary beds. They are costly. And the Government's stringent requirement for physical examinations does not help. Only those meeting the harsh conditions are assigned infirmary beds while many who need infirmary beds remain in care and attention homes. This high-handed policy fails to soften the pressing demand on infirmary beds. Besides, past experience shows that the Government usually tends to underestimate real demand. The acute shortage of hospital beds is precisely an outcome of this practice.
In fact, residential elderly care services is not satisfactory. According to the government figures, as of 1 August this year, there were 528 residential facilities in Hong Kong (including care and attention homes, homes for the aged and self-care hostels), providing a total of 29 394 places. Among them, 15 463 places, or 52.6% of the total, are provided by private profit-making bodies. This figure shows that privately operated care and attention homes are playing a very important role in the absence of sufficient public allocation in this regard. These private institutions are not subject to government supervision. Their quality varies. Some residential facilities suffer from problems ranging from a shortage of properly trained nurses and safety
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supervisor, poor locations to sub-standard fire prevention and fire fighting equipment. Members of the public have long expressed concern in response to the tragedies which took place in such homes.
However, the Government has been too slow introducing measures to maintain the standard of the care and attention homes in the territory. The Social Welfare Advisory Committee adopted a code of practice for voluntary observance by private institutions in October 1986. Six years elapsed before this Council's First Reading of the Bill on care and attention homes. The Government is evidently afraid of rocking the boat. It knows that laxity in supervision will result in unreliable quality. Yet it is worried that tight supervision will drive private institutions out of business, resulting in the Government having to accommodate the affected elderly. Therefore, when examining and voting on the Bill, colleagues should try to strike a balance between improving the quality of services and making sure that no elderly people will be forced to sleep out in the streets. Subsidized voluntary agencies and privately operated homes for the aged are of the view that the following issues must be settled if the law is to be successfully implemented:
1. Trained personnel. Hong Kong now has an estimated shortfall of 1 500 trained nursing professionals. For its part, SWD has just over 200 health assistants, averaging one health assistant for every two homes for the aged. Another problem is that there is a wide gap in pay and benefits between the nurses working in the area of elderly care in voluntary agencies and their counterparts working for HA. This makes it even more difficult for the voluntary agencies to recruit the necessary nursing staff.
2. Location. It is estimated that more than 7 000 elderly people in Hong Kong, or 41% of all the elderly people in homes for the aged, are living in homes that are located in commercial premises or old tenement buildings that are not up to the standards set by the Bill. When the Bill becomes law, the re-accommodation of these people will become a very serious problem.
3. As many homes for the aged are located in old buildings, they need extra fire prevention, safety and ventilation installations. Even some subsidized institutions are dismayed by the many technical problems involved. The profit-making institutions in private sector would certainly find this a hard nut to crack in commercial sense.
4. Licensing fee. The size of the licensing fee in each case is determined on the number of inmates. The annual licensing fee for a care and attention home varies from $89,270 to $160,860. In the case of a home for the aged, it varies from $71,490 to $142,980 while for a self-care hostel, it varies from $53,610 to $125,130. In the Government's estimate, the annual administrative cost of enforcing the law, in current prices, will be in the region of
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$16.7 million. This will be fully covered by the licensing fee collected. Private institutions generally find the licensing fee too high. They feel that, in the end, the higher licensing fee would of course be passed on to service recipients. Otherwise, institutions will go out of business when they cannot make any profit. Some subsidized agencies think that there is no reason why the Government should charge them licensing fee at a rate higher than that for highly profitable hotels, guest houses and motels. Clearly, this is indeed open to question. Must the Government charge a licensing fee that is high enough to cover costs?
I think that the problems are not insurmountable. The question is when they could be resolved. Let me elucidate my point by way of illustration. Professionally trained nurses are in short supply or hard to recruit. This impedes the development of services. If the Government does not think it feasible to import foreign nurses, then it might consider speeding up the training of local human resources, encouraging the re-hiring of retired or resigned nurses and conducting a wide review of salaries and benefits for that profession with a view to attracting new blood. Furthermore, gaps in salaries and benefits should be closed between HA and the welfare agencies for staff doing similar kinds of work. Another thing is that the Government should not only consider waiving licensing requirements for homes for the aged that are situated at upper floors of high-rise buildings or which cannot install more fire fighting equipment. The Government should also consider helping such homes to relocate. Of course, we welcome the Government's effort to expand the place purchase programmes. This will ensure the quality of services of privately operated homes for the aged. In any case, we must recognize one point, which is that the Bill on care and attention homes should be passed expeditiously to forestall any recurrence of the past tragedies.
Mr President, there is no doubt that, in providing infirmary and care and attention services to the elderly, it is necessary to solve concurrently the serious inadequacy of service and the problem of uneven standards of quality. The first order of business now, as stated in the motion, is to urge the Government to conduct a comprehensive and intensive review. The Government must not only expeditiously provide more places but also improve the poor coordination and cooperation between different government departments in providing services. Better efficiency should be achieved in the use of finite resources. In addition, effective use should be made of private institutions that make contributions by providing care and attention services to the elderly when the Administration works out long-term and short-term solutions. It is hoped that the elderly, who worked quietly in the past for Hong Kong's economic prosperity, may receive the care and attention that they now need.
Mr President, with these remarks, I beg to move and I call on all colleagues to support the motion and to put forward their valuable views.
Question on the motion proposed.
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 8 December 1993 1377
MRS PEGGY LAM (in Cantonese): Mr President, the average life expectancy of the people of Hong Kong is over 70 years, so it is not appropriate to say that life is short. However, when it comes to waiting for the social service for elderly people, some of them die before their turns arrive.
The Governor has proudly reported in his policy address the results of the various policies but even he has admitted that the problem of the elderly is thorny and urgent. When speaking of medical treatment and residential care for the elderly, he pointed out that there would be 7 800 elderly persons in need of such services in 1997, but the Administration would only be able to provide an extra 1 200 beds.
Here, I think I have to declare my interest, because in terms of age, I am already eligible for elderly welfare, including the old age assistance of 10 odd dollars per day and the senior citizen card that can be used to save 10 dollars or so. Fortunately I am still healthy and need not wait for the medical or infirmary services that seem inaccessibly far away.
However, who can guarantee tomorrow?
Mr President, there are now 820 000 elderly persons aged 60 or above in Hong Kong. Leaving aside those who are alone with no one to depend on, even for those who are living with their families, should they become chronically ill and unable to move around, it will be difficult for their families to take proper care of them given the characteristics of the nuclear families today. Furthermore, as the great majority of the retired persons are not entitled to any form of retirement protection, the expensive private medical and nursing services are not affordable to the great majority of the elderly. They will therefore have to depend mainly on the care and attention services provided by the Government and the subvented sector.
The Administration has all along not made any long-term commitment in this regard. Currently, there is a shortage of 5 000-odd infirmary beds and 2 900-odd places of care and attention homes. This serious situation is the accumulated result of years. Even though the Administration is now earnest to remedy the situation, what it can now provide can only make up for the places which it has promised but subsequently failed to provide. Such a situation will not only fail to give proper care to the elderly, but also greatly increase the pressure on other supporting services like increasing the demand for home help service.
The increase of elderly persons, the lack of retirement protection, the insufficiency and the lack of co-ordination of supporting social services are all interrelated in aggravating the problem of the elderly. The working group which is given the important duty of reviewing and examining the overall problem of the elderly must come up as soon as possible with a proposal and announce from time to time its progress of work, allowing members of the
1378 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 8 December 1993
public to make comments and suggestions, in order that a solution can be found in the near future.
Meanwhile, private elderly homes can help to relieve the demand for residential care services. So one of the solutions is for the Administration to buy-places from these private homes. But when it comes to the provision of health care services, these private homes are short of health care personnel. The Administration should therefore consider relaxing the requirements of the health care personnel of these private homes by allowing the health care personnel of China to come to work in Hong Kong, and expanding the relevant training courses such that more China-trained nurses who are now living in Hong Kong can enroll in these courses with the end of obtaining an accepted qualification and work in these elderly homes.
As regards the problem of the closure of many sub-standard homes due to the legislative control of private elderly homes, I think that the regulations should not be easily loosened for the sake of increasing the places of elderly homes, because we cannot let those elderly who cannot help themselves be exposed to a dangerous environment. But we can encourage the operators of these private homes to continue their operation by way of lowering their licence fee and giving subsidy to the elderly who live in these private homes. Meanwhile, the Social Welfare Department should also provide as much assistance and support as possible such that the new legislation will not lead to a decrease in elderly homes, the number of which is already very insufficient in Hong Kong.
Mr President, by the year 2001, there will be one elderly person in every six persons in Hong Kong, so finding a solution to the elderly problem is already an urgent matter that cannot afford any further procastination.
With these remarks, I support the motion.
DR LEONG CHE-HUNG: Mr President, I rise to support my honourable colleague Mr HUI's motion.
There has been a rising tide of concern about the well-being of our senior citizens lately. Apart from today's motion, a special working group has recently been set up to study elderly policies and the Governor's policy address last year also promised a secured life for our aged citizens.
These are indeed good news for our 700 000 senior citizens.
Yet, Mr President, time is not on their side. If the Government does not act now, none can tell how many elderly persons now on the waiting lists for services can at the end of the day benefit from the maturity of the Government's sugar-coated promises.
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 8 December 1993 1379 So where is the problem?
In recent years, an annual range of some 250 to 500 names are removed from the waiting list of infirmaries because these old people die before their turn on the waiting list arrives. Yet, twice the number are added at the same time.
The fact remains that there is a shortfall of some 5 000 infirmary beds and nearly 3 000 care and attention places.
The question before us goes beyond just number matching. The tolerance of the current system of having various elderly medical and nursing services under different auspices without proper co-ordination has created unnecessary demand that adds burden to the already fatigued supply situation.
In short, Mr President, our current system fails to provide the appropriate services and care at the right time, in the right place, and to the right people. We witness frail elderly people being kept in care and attention homes due to infirmary shortage; infirmary beds being occupied by should-be residents of care and attention homes; numerous old people are wasting their precious time lining up in the wrong queue due to improper or complete absence of assessment; and people on the waiting list end up in acute hospitals in the midst of tumbling down of preventive health due mainly to a lack of community support and nursing care.
All these are the result of misplacement, and from a lack of co-ordination between various parties involved, and a gross deficiency in community care services, as well as a long-term snub on primary health care. Let me explain.
Firstly, under the current policies, care and attention homes under the Social Welfare Department auspices are catering for elderly people who require only two and a half hour's nursing care, while those who need constant nursing care would be put into infirmaries under the Hospital Authority. There is no unified assessment criteria. At the end of the day doctors will have to come up with their own "assessment" to shepherd those old folks into what they regard as a right place for them.
Proper placement, Mr President, at the very first place can cut the number of unnecessary transfer among care and attention homes and infirmaries. It also cuts down the unnecessary attention to casualties and readmission to acute hospitals.
Secondly, there is a lack of co-ordination among the medical, health and welfare sectors. Communication is also lacking between the private and public sectors.
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Old clients are being kicked around among various sectors. Let me also sound a note of warning. The setting of a new category of elderly services — the nursing homes — yet under another department, the Department of Health, may further complicate communication problems unless properly handled. Ironically, such nursing homes are supposed to fill the gap existing between the care and attention homes and infirmaries.
Thirdly, there is a lack of community support services and a long-term negligence of primary health care.
When people have to wait for at least three years for a placement, they will need other support for them to fall back on during their twilight years.
Yet, our community care network lacks the flexibility to cope with the changing needs of society. It fails to deal with the rising number of singleton frail elderly people left by migrated family members. The operating hours of day care centres are unrealistic time for working-class families. More, there are insufficient numbers of day hospitals for the sick elderly during their rehabilitation process.
Neither does the Administration act fast enough to come up with a proper primary health care system. It has been nearly three years since a government- appointed task force advised on, amidst others, providing health education and regular health checks for the elderly. Yet, the preparation work is still moving at a snail's pace, and even then, only on a pilot scheme.
What then are the stopgap measures and long-term solutions? I would suggest: For the short-term measures, the following should be done:
1. There should be a proper district network for continuing care for the elderly, which should cut across the professional and organizational boundaries of various medical, health, and welfare institutions in both the government, subvented, and private sectors.
2. There should be sufficient out-reaching teams to each district to provide nursing care and health assessments for all, including those even outside the waiting lists.
It is a good move that the Government supports the Hospital Authority's pilot scheme of setting up geriatric assessment teams composing doctors, nurses, physiotherapists, occupational therapists and social workers, but there should be more.
I urge the Administration to extend without delay the services to all parts of the territory, and to ensure that each team would have sufficient resources to cope with their needs.
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 8 December 1993 1381
3. The Administration should tap the rich resources of private homes through bought-place scheme to alleviate the present shortfall. At present, some 80% of the private homes are catering for infirmary cases.
It would be a gross waste if the Administration were to just allow private homes with potential quality to close down due to failure to meet the forthcoming legislative requirements, leaving our old clients homeless.
The Government should consider setting up nursing teams or physiotherapist teams on rotation basis to support private homes which show the potential to join the bought place scheme.
On the long-term basis, Mr President, increasing the number of long-term care residential places is a must; there is also a very important dire need to review the present arbitrary separation of care and attention homes and infirmaries.
A proper projection of demand is essential for planning purposes. At present, the ratio of five infirmary beds to every 1 000 elderly persons aged over 65 and above was set a decade ago. Its authenticity is questionable. Hong Kong lacks adequate data on the disability and mobility of our elderly population.
A government with vision should invest more in community care for both abled and frail elderly people, and in preventive health care for them. Such investment would certainly bear fruit.
Mr President, our senior citizens deserve more than a residential place. If at the end of the day life to them is an incurable disease, if life to them is not a spectacle nor a feast but a predicament, then, we fail in our reputation as a caring society with advanced development.
MR FREDERICK FUNG (in Cantonese): Mr President, owing to the aging population and the financial difficulties confronting families which have to take care of the elderly, certainly the public will press ever vigorously for more public expenditure on welfare for the elderly. The Association for Democracy and People's Livelihood including myself fully supports the increase of welfare services for the elderly provided that other welfare expenditures will not correspondingly be cut down. I support Mr HUI Yin-fat's motion which urges the Government to expeditiously increase places in care and attention homes because I believe that the elderly are badly in need of nursing service. If an old man in need of care and attention is not offered a place in a care and attention home but forced to live in a home for the aged or an ordinary residential unit without any nursing facilities, just imagine the ordeal he has to undergo in his day-to-day living, to say the least, the trouble he is subject to when he wants to go to toilet. In the absence of any care in this respect, the elderly will only have a greater sense of helplessness and worthlessness under the pressure of survival.
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They may feel tired of life and some may even take their own life. We surely cannot allow such miseries to go on.
It is obvious that geriatric services are interrelated. Just as Mr HUI pointed out, the acute shortfall of infirmary beds in hospitals will, for instance, lead to a growing demand for places in care and attention homes. Such shortage has a knock-on effect. For this reason, when the Government increases the number of care and attention homes, it should, at the same time, improve other hostel nursing services for the elderly. Failing to do so, it will commit the same mistake again of treating symptoms but not the disease. In this connection, it is necessary to conduct a comprehensive review.
I would also like to point out here that efforts to strengthen hostel services must be made in conjunction with stronger community support. We should note that responsibilities to take care of elderly people with nursing need are still largely foisted upon their families. In such families, it is usually female members who have to look after the elderly. For this reason, the Government must also identify ways to bring relief to such families in its review of nursing services for the elderly.
I hope that the Government's Working Group on Care for the Elderly would carry out a comprehensive review of its policy for the elderly and the policy could be carried out in such a way that the government departments concerned would have better co-ordination and, as a result, the elderly who have dedicated their prime life to the good of our community can enjoy a dignified and comfortable old age.
With these remarks, I support the motion.
MR MICHAEL HO (in Cantonese): Mr President, demands for geriatric services have increased dramatically with the ageing of our population and the gradual replacement of the extended family by nuclear family. Among the various types of welfare services, demands for care and attention homes for the elderly and infirmary places have been the most pressing.
We support the proposal in the Governor's policy address to increase the number of infirmary places. Old people need different degrees of care as a result of their physical degeneration, but they are not ill and do not need hospitalization. While I support the Governor's proposal, I must state clearly that I support providing nursing services for old people rather than setting up the proposed nursing homes which, under the existing framework, would be placed between infirmaries and care and attention homes.
The Government's proposed framework and idea are open to question. The problem of the existing three-tier institutional care for the elderly lies in its loose internal co-ordination whereby old people of different degrees of degeneration are rigidly defined into three tiers. There is an absence of
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integrated care. If we should add a fourth tier of nursing homes on top of this "compartmentalized" framework, we would only be reinforcing the incoordination. In the end, old people will become "human balls" among these four tiers of services and will probably be kicked from one tier to another.
As one gets older, the more frail one becomes. This is a natural rule. For those aged between 60 and 70, they may still be able to look after themselves. They can live in an ordinary home for the aged. But when they are over 70, they may need a walking aid or a wheelchair. Then they should live in a care and attention home. And at an even older age, they may become so weak that they would be bed-ridden. Then a place in a nursing home or even an infirmary place will be a must. The institutional transfer arrangements necessitated by deteriorating health will have significant impact on old people. When they need to be transferred from an institution of one tier to an institution of another, it would appear they are being "demoted". It could strike home among them the message that their health is progressively deteriorating and their days are numbered. These psychological threats will make old people feel depressed and dampen their spirit. Another effect of switching institutions is compelling old people to leave other inmates whom they have known for years and the staff who have been looking after them. Switching institutions at such age and under such physical and psychological conditions, together with the prospects of a new environment and the need to adapt to some new staff, could be a great psychological burden on them. I have been a volunteer in the field of geriatric services for more than a decade. I have come across many cases in which old people under institutional integrated care were unwilling to be transferred even from one room to another. They do have the feeling of being "demoted" as I just now mentioned. What I would like to emphasize is that we need to look after the old people not only in the physical aspect, but also the psychological aspect of their health. We would only have our job half-done if we should be keen on their physical well-being while neglecting their psychological health altogether. I appeal to the Government to review anew its overall policy on geriatric services. Dr the Honourable YEUNG Sum will elucidate the details of our proposal later.
As regards the nursing staff of care and attention homes, I find the situation very unsatisfactory in some institutions where only enrolled nurses are employed. As a professional nurse, I have to remind the Government that nursing is more than looking after the old persons' daily needs. A nurse has to look after their mental health, assess their health conditions and tailor for them an appropriate nursing service as well. The assessment and decision as to what kind of services is needed by individual inmates must be made at least by registered nurses in order to ensure that the quality of nursing services for inmates could maintain at a certain level.
I hope the Government will review as quickly as possible the existing services, giving particular consideration to the integration of various types of institutions so as to put in place some integrated caring services. The manpower situation also warrants a review which should include of course an examination
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of the remuneration of nurses in some institutions, in order to ensure a sufficient number of nurses and other pertient staff to provide services.
Finally, I should like to say a few words in response to a suggestion made by the Honourable Peggy LAM earlier with regard to allowing nurses who obtained their qualifications on the mainland to work in Hong Kong. I think that this suggestion should not be accepted in haste. Should mainland-trained nurses be allowed to work in Hong Kong, the Government would have an excuse to refrain from improving the lot of the local nursing profession in earnest. This might convey to local nurses the message that their profession is no longer highly regarded, thus leading immediately to a massive wastage. The consequences could be devastating. Should that be the case, it would be of little help even if we could increase nursing student's places for it is already difficult to fill the yearly 1 000 places. I think that the Government should, with a sense of urgency, examine what problems local nurses are facing now and address them at source.
With these remarks, I support the motion.
THE PRESIDENTS DEPUTY, MRS ELSIE TU, took the Chair.
DR LAM KUI-CHUN (in Cantonese): Madam deputy, it is common anywhere in the world that when a debate on social welfare is held, people would always say, firstly, that services are inadequate and, secondly, that they are not good enough. In the context of the care and attention home services in Hong Kong, there is agreement, which is rare, among the general public, the pressure groups and the Government that care and attention home services are neither adequate nor good. They also agree on the causes of the problems. Well then, in today's debate, we should focus our attention on what the solutions should be.
The wording of the motion suggests that the problems have been given urgency by the tabling of the Bill on care and attention homes before this Council. This Bill serves a warning to unqualified care and attention homes and infirmaries that they will be ordered to stop operating. When this happens, the serious shortage of places may get worse.
I think that minimum health and safety standards should be set for care and attention homes in the interest of their elderly inmates. However, the new Bill threatens to out-law privately operated care and attention homes now accommodating a total of 15 000 elderly inmates. For this reason, at the initial stage, the standards for care and attention homes must not be too harsh by any means. Until there are enough care and attention places to take care of the needy elderly, the provisional licensing rules should be flexible in favour of those care and attention homes that are not yet up to par. After all, the intent of the Bill is not to turn their elderly inmates out into the streets.
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Right solution must be found for these inmates, as well as for the about 10 000 elderly people waiting for care and attention places under the auspices of the Social Welfare Department. About this, I have three hackneyed points to make.
The first point is that of qualified personnel. The bill on care and attention homes sets certain qualification requirements for the nursing staff of such homes. I find these requirements reasonable. However, given the global shortage of nurses, it is unlikely that our care and attention homes are able to recruit enough nurses. The next best thing is to hire health assistants, and 500 will be needed industry-wide. But, there are only 210 trained health assistants in the territory. I suggest that the Government, to solve this problem, should allow China-trained nurses living in Hong Kong to be hired after they have successfully completed certain retraining courses. Retraining foreign-trained nurses takes less time than training student nurses. We should utilize these resources as best we can.
The second point is that of location. I know that people want the care and attention homes where their elderly family members live to be close to where they live to facilitate visits. About half of Hong Kong's population now lives in public housing estates or Home Ownership Scheme estates. Ideal locations for care and attention homes are therefore in these estates. Many public housing tenants are property owners. But they still keep their public housing rental units, either using them as their second residences or unlawfully subletting them for gain. A Housing Department survey last year found that about 13% of the public housing tenants (or 74 000 households) were property owners. The Administration should conduct some painstaking investigation into the situation and take resolute measures to repossess public housing rental units from tenants found to have broken the rules, while the law-abiding tenants should then be allowed to move to better units or be paid compensation for moving out. In so doing, it should not be difficult to find a few thousand suitably located vacant units in public housing estates to make way for care and attention homes.
In the long run, new care and attention homes should be built. This requires talks with China about land grants and co-ordination with the Hospital Authority in the context of its plan for new infirmaries. We will then be able to solve fully the shortage of care and attention homes and infirmaries.
The third point is that of money. The Government has an inescapable responsibility for solving the shortage of care and attention homes for the elderly members of middle and low income families. However, if drastic increase in the proportional share of any department in the distribution of public fund is to be avoided, the Government must make fuller use of other kinds of resources. I suggest that the Government should consider using money from the well-endowed Lottery Fund. In addition, public housing rental units from disqualified tenants should be repossessed to make way for more care and attention places. Where a new care and attention home is set up and managed by a non-profit making body, its operation will not have to be subsidized by the
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Government. All the operating funds that it needs will come from the families of the elderly persons who choose to live in it. This arrangement will bring benefits to both the elderly concerned and the service providers. It is expected that this would encourage the building of more care and attention homes.
As to privately run care and attention homes are concerned, their role in providing needed social services should be recognized until they are replaced by government-operated homes providing enough care and attention places. Now they will be affected by the new bill. Some of them, though not fully up to standard, may have made substantial improvements. If additional improvements — or large-scale refurnishment — are required from them, these requirements should not be too harsh and the grace period should not be too short. Otherwise, their fees will go up to a level unaffordable to some elderly. However, I will not rule out that some privately operated care and attention homes, particularly the inexpensive "mini-homes", may be unable to comply with the minimum requirements and be driven out of business. Should that be the case, their inmates will have to re accommodated.
The Government must provide enough care and attention places to meet the contingency of elderly people rendered homeless by the closure of privately operated care and attention homes. The Government should also expand its scheme of buying places from privately operated care and attention homes. Firstly, this will enable alternative accommodations to be provided to those elderly people who are affected, through no fault of their own, by the harsh Bill. Secondly, it will shorten the waiting line for care and attention places under the auspices of the Social Welfare Department. Thirdly, it will encourage privately operated care and attention homes to improve their services and physical conditions.
Madam deputy, with these remarks, I support the motion.
DR SAMUEL WONG: Madam deputy, elderly folk requiring care and attention are by definition "in distress". A hundred and fifty years ago, Horace MANN said, "To pity distress is but human; to relieve it is Godlike." It will be sad if the best we can do today is to be "but human" and simply pity.
As stated in the motion, we are dealing with a case of supply and demand. We are also dealing with standards, training, and compassion.
Let us first identify the extent of the demand. The authorities hold an unofficial list of existing nursing homes which suggests that currently 11 000 elderly people are supported by some kind of care and attention outside their families. According to a reliable government source, about 80% of these receive unsatisfactory care, and much of the remainder are provided by charities. The bulk tend to be in private nursing homes, which charge around $4,000 per month and minimize staff to maximize profits. When the Government prepared legislation some years ago to license such premises, many
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were put on the property market for sale because the operators knew there was no way they could profitably meet any reasonable standards of care. The old folk had nowhere else to go; so the legislation was shelved and the homes were duly taken off the market.
I related to this Council, once before, the case of TANG Kwok-wah. He was 74 years old and terminally ill. The Social Welfare Department sponsored him to go to an old people's home. He was found five months later in a bunk bed on the roof, with a corrugated plastic cover but no sides. He was alone. His colleagues had already died. He was told it was temporary. After eight months of loneliness, he died in that same bunk bed on the roof. An only too typical case of inadequate care.
My conclusion is that about 9 000 elderly people in nursing homes are inadequately cared for and will form a major part of the demand should licensing be enforced.
In addition, and I stress in addition, there is said to be another 11 000 on the waiting list, being inadequately cared for in families. There may be some doubt about this figure, as some families may be trying to get rid of their elderly who are not strictly in need of care and attention. The government working party should find out the number more reliably, but this could take nine months.
The similarity of the two figures could cause confusion. So let me repeat. There are 11 000 already in care and attention, of whom some 9 000 will form new demand if licensing is introduced. There are another 11 000 on the waiting list of whom, let us guess, about half are genuine cases. The potential demand is therefore about 14 000 whatever the findings of the working party.
The White Paper Towards Better Health states that those of the population over the age of 65 were 8.8% in 1991, rising to 11.6% in 2001. A demand of 14 000 now will therefore be bigger in five years. I mention five years because last week Hong Kong proudly opened the unique Cheung Muk Tau Holiday Centre for the Elderly, with 20 places for care and attention or infirm, and that took five years to complete.
So much for the demand. What about the supply? The Governor announced in his policy address in October that an additional 800 care and attention home places would be provided over the next two years. It is a drop in the ocean! Eight hundred places to meet a demand of at least 14 000, which the government working party might well find to be more! That is less than 6% of what is needed.
Actually, it is not so illogical as it sounds. What the figure of 800 does is to more or less account for the increase in care and attention places needed over the next two years due to the aging population. It takes no account of the backlog, which, as I say, is about 14 000. I hope the Government is not going
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to wait nine months for confirmation of this figure before embarking on the provision of the 800 places, which could take five years rather than two.
Just a word about training. Four months ago, an elderly patient was admitted to Queen Elizabeth Hospital with a broken hip. He was 89 and had senile dementia, though was not incontinent. Because he was unable to explain his needs, the nursing staff, inadequately trained to deal with geriatrics, inserted a catheter and gave him a bladder infection which kept him in hospital three times as long as the broken bone. What assurance have we that the standard of training is any better in care and attention homes than it is in the hospitals?
It is not enough for this Council or the Government to pity or even measure the distress of the elderly and infirm. It seems we need action worthy of the gods to relieve this appalling canker on Hong Kong's care for them.
Madam deputy, with these remarks, I support the motion.
MR WONG WAI-YIN (in Cantonese): Madam deputy, Hong Kong's elderly population keeps growing and the geriatric problems are getting worse. Colleagues have repeatedly raised questions and called for debates on elderly welfare and elderly care services in this Council and the Social Welfare Advisory Committee. But the Government has rarely given positive and substantive responses. Mr HUI Yin-fat is moving a motion today on the perennially severe shortage of care and attention homes and infirmaries. He is urging the Government to act quickly to review the correlation between the inadequacy of services on one hand and the shortage of staff and facilities on the other. Meeting Point fully supports his motion and hopes that the Secretary for Health and Welfare will in his reply put forward more substantive improvement measures.
I used to hear a saying when I was a boy that "an old person in the family is like a treasure to the family". However, in the wake of our socio-economic developments, big families have gone out of fashion. People have become more affluent. Younger generation, after getting married, form families of their own. Elderly parents are no longer like treasures to these families. In most cases, they are on their own. As we have yet to establish a sound retirement protection system, life is particularly difficult for the retired elderly. If they have no children to take care of them and are unable to survive on their own, they have to go to homes for the aged. For those of them who are not physically sound enough to look after themselves, care and attention homes are the only choice. But the severe shortage of care and attention homes and infirmaries has been a long-standing problem. Many elderly people waiting for places can only be resigned to their fate. Some of them even meet their death before their turn comes. I am not exaggerating when I use the term "severe shortage". According to the figures I sought from the Government yesterday, about 10 000 elderly people are waiting for care and attention home places, and more than 5 000 for infirmary places. Evidently, the shortage is quite severe. In the foreseeable future, the waiting line will get longer as the elderly
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population grows larger. Secondly, the waves of emigration from Hong Kong have had serious consequences. Statistical evidence shows that, since the tragedy of 4 June 1989, the number of emigrants has been sustained at a high level. It was 42 000 in 1989. In 1990, the figure was 62 000 and remained at 60 000 in both 1991 and 1992. In most cases, when a family emigrated, the elderly parents, for various reasons, did not want to emigrate with their children. These elderly parents have remained in Hong Kong and it is likely that they would be, sooner or later, in need of residential elderly care services. As a related issue, Dr M H NGAN of the City Polytechnic published in June this year a study on emigration and community care for the elderly. This study noted that over 60% of the interviewed elderly inmates of ordinary homes for the aged were in a state of depression because their children had emigrated. This had affected their mental as well as physical health. They would soon become persons in need of care and attention home places. This problem is far more common among elderly people whose children have emigrated than among those who have children in Hong Kong.
Undoubtedly, the long-standing severe shortage of care and attention homes and infirmaries is due to the Government's wrong projection of demand. The problem also stems from the Government's failure to carry out programmes according to its original schedule. However, side by side with the severe shortage of places, there is an anomaly. I know of isolated cases in which care and attention homes have admitted elderly people who are healthy rather than those who are not physically sound. These care and attention homes, while admitting healthy people, turn away others who are in need of care and attention. This is a waste of resources where such places are concerned. Evidently, the Social Welfare Department is toothless when it comes to supervision.
The shortage of care and attention homes and infirmaries produces not only a long waiting list but also other problems. Firstly, according to statistical evidence, more than 200 old people commit suicide each year. In most cases, this happens to those who suffer from chronic illness but receive no proper case. Therefore, I believe that, if we have a more adequate number of care and attention home and infirmary places, many of these tragic cases could have been averted.
Secondly, many old people waiting for residential services are living with their children pending the availability of places. In most cases, their applications for Higher Disability Allowance would not be approved. Their families, on whom the burden of elderly care has fallen, cannot afford to hire help to look after them. In some cases, their families have to quit their jobs in order to stay home to take care of their elderly parents. Such care on a long-term basis (especially for old parents who are wheelchair bound or suffer from incontinence problems) is stressful to the children's families. War of words or clashes among family members will easily arise. To reduce such stresses and domestic quarrels, the provision of more care and attention home and infirmary places cannot brook one moment's delay.
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The inadequate residential service has an even more serious repercussion which has to do with hospital beds. As care and attention homes and infirmaries are in severe short supply, people would, by hook or by crook, try to send their elderly parents who are in need of such services to hospitals. After succeeding in doing so, they then provide false addresses. When an elderly parent sent to a hospital in such a manner is ready to be discharged, his children either cannot be reached or, if contacted, will not quickly pick up their parent. The elderly parent then remains in the hospital, taking up a general ward bed for an indefinite period of time. According to statistics available, the operating cost is about $170 a day for a care and attention home place, about $910 per day for an infirmary place but about $2,100 a day for a general ward bed in a hospital. In this connection, some old people, in the absence of the necessary services, who need to be sent only to comparatively less costly care and attention homes or infirmaries, would have to take up hospital beds, which are more costly. This is a waste of public resources.
Over the past 10 years, many private care and attention homes have come on line in Hong Kong in the light of the enormous demand for care and attention home places. There are now 480 of them, providing 13 000 places. These private care and attention homes are not under proper supervision. Their quality varies and often draws complaints from members of the public.
In response to the severe shortage of care and attention homes and infirmaries, the Governor has promised to make improvements, including providing 5 000 additional places in care and attention homes and homes for the aged and building seven nursing homes. But this serious problem will not go away. Therefore, it is imperative that the Government must act quickly to make short-term improvements and find long-term solutions.
As an interim measure, support services should be improved for those families which are taking care of their own elderly members so that more elderly people could receive proper care and attention at home. Secondly, law should be made expeditiously to put private care and attention homes under supervision to ensure their quality. Certainly, the Government may also wish to consider buying more places in private care and attention homes. This will give the private care and attention homes an incentive to provide better services. As to the shortage of nursing staff, training should be stepped up. In addition, nurses from China after training.....
The buzzer sounded a continuous beep.
PRESIDENTS DEPUTY: Mr Wong, you have to discontinue.
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DR YEUNG SUM (in Cantonese): Madam deputy, I am delighted at Mr HUI Yin-fat's moving a motion today on care and attention homes. I would like to preface my speech by telling colleagues the following real-life cases:
(1) Ms CHAN, 80, was sent to a hospital by her family, from which she was then transferred to another hospital. Meanwhile, she was found to be suffering from cancer. But the doctors advised against surgery. Twenty days later, the second hospital wanted to discharge her. Yet, her family asked the hospital to make available a bed where she could receive adequate care. Nothing came of this request. The patient was sent back to the first hospital. Three days later, the hospital wanted to discharge her. Again, no arrangements were made at all for her to receive suitable care because there were not enough infirmary beds. In the end, Ms CHAN's family sent her back to a private care and attention home.
(2) In another yet more typical case, Ms YEUNG, 75, originally lived in a home for the aged in Kowloon. She had a heart disease record. One day in May 1993, she was found unconscious in the home. She was thereupon taken to a hospital. Five days later, the hospital's social worker contacted the head of the home to inform him that, because the patient had made no progress, the hospital intended to send her back to the home as soon as possible. Ms YEUNG, who had suffered from cerebral haemorrhage, was by then half-paralysed and unable to speak with clarity. The head of the home was of the view that the home would just not be suitable for her since it had no doctors or nurses. He suggested that it would be better for the hospital to send Ms YEUNG to an infirmary. But in view of the shortage of bed spaces in infirmaries, the request was denied. A further problem was that Ms YEUNG's physical condition was too poor for her to meet the admission requirement of a care and attention home. A few days later, the hospital again wanted to discharge her. The head of the home again asked the hospital to send her to an infirmary to no avail. In the end, the home accepted the patient. The head of the home explained to Ms YEUNG's family that this was done out of humanitarian consideration. He added that the home was just not suitable for Ms YEUNG because it could not provide adequate medical or nursing care.
The above cases were not exceptional. In the Government's estimate, among inmates of private care and attention homes, 30% of them or 3 220, are infirmary cases requiring special attention. They should be in infirmaries. But infirmaries are severely short of bed spaces. Old and infirm people therefore are forced to go to private care and attention homes or live at home. Yet now there is no way to ensure the quality of a private care and attention home. A patient may not be able to receive suitable medical or nursing care there; his condition will then be prone to deteriorate. If his condition deteriorates, he will
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have to be taken to a hospital. Many elderly people are now caught in such a dilemma. Some even die in transit. One wonders what is happening to our community. Even as he boasts of Hong Kong's prosperity and economic growth, the Financial Secretary is at his wits' end about how to ease the agony of the unfortunate elderly. They are forced to live in care and attention homes or homes for the aged, where they receive no suitable medical or nursing care, and wait quietly for what may be the end of their lives.
The crux of the problem today is the shortage of infirmary places and care and attention home places. The Government has recognized the severity of the problems and is trying to find remedies. At a meeting of the Social Welfare Advisory Committee this year to discuss infirmary and care and attention home services, the Government has recommended that each care and attention home should set up an internal infirmary unit so that those who are in need of urgent attention could be taken care of. This will momentarily ease the shortage of infirmaries. In the Governor's policy address in October, the Government promised to build seven nursing homes in the coming four years, providing 1 400 beds. We are appreciative of what the Secretary for Health and Welfare has done. Still, the problems remain unsolved.
First of all, the effectiveness of setting up an infirmary unit in each care and attention home is very questionable. Such a unit will not have an adequate supply of professionally trained nursing staff to deal with the more serious cases. (It will consist of just one registered nurse and four enrolled nurses.) A patient will not receive the kind of medical care that he could in an infirmary. More importantly, care and attention homes themselves are in dire shortage of places. If those who should have been sent to infirmaries are put in care and attention homes, they will take up places at the expense of others already on the waiting list. This would produce a knock-on effect on other services and ultimately affect services in the care and attention homes.
The United Democrats of Hong Kong is very supportive of the plan to build seven nursing homes. However, they will provide only 1 400 places, hardly meeting the need of the 5 361 applicants on the central waiting list of the infirmaries. I think that, to tackle the problems, the most important thing to do is to review the planned ratio between infirmaries and nursing homes, with a view to increasing services expeditiously. As to the seven new nursing homes, the Government must do some thinking now at the planning stage, about how they could co-ordinate with other services to forestall any recurrence of co-ordination problems. I have some suggestions to offer concerning plans for nursing home services. I hope that the Secretary for Health and Welfare will take them into serious consideration.
(1) Mode of service provision:
I think that the general trend in the area of social services is towards the integrated mode. A case in point is the children and youth service centre, which has been the subject of a study this year. A similar integrated mode should be
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used as the basis for the planning for the provision of geriatric care and rehabilitation services.
(2) Specific suggestions:
1. Integrated services should include the services provided by a home for the aged, a care and attention home and a nursing home. An integrated centre should be established to bring these different types of services under the same roof.
2. Each integrated centre should have some service-related connection with a district hospital. It should co-ordinate with, and refer patients to, the hospital.
3. Suppose that an elderly person normally living in an ordinary hostel is hospitalized. Upon discharging him, the hospital should review his condition and make a recommendation as to what kind of place will be best for him. As different types of places are available in each centre, he has only to change rooms, moving from one wing to another or from one floor to another. There is no need for him to move back and forth among the hospital, the home for the aged and the care and attention home. This means that the elderly would not have to deal with adjustment, which is difficult for them.
4. The nursing home places in each centre should be managed by the Social Welfare Department. Professional medical services, such as doctors' rounds of visits, should be performed by doctors under the Hospital Authority.
5. It may not be possible, in the immediate future, to convert the existing three different facilities into integrated centres. However, in the long run, integrated centres should be the basic mode when new services are planned.
By the United Nations' definition, Hong Kong has officially become an aged community. Old people are increasingly in need of support and care in different aspects of their everyday life. As citizens of the community, they are entitled to such support and care.
I hope expansion of the services of the government-operated and subsidized institutions and the new mode of services will free the elderly from the mental and physical agony they are now subject to when they try to secure care and attention services. I also hope that action will be taken to mitigate the impact of the possible closure of some care and attention homes when the Bill on private-run care and attention homes is enacted into law.
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The Governor's policy address mentioned that a working group which would report directly to him had been set up. I hope that it will quickly put the question of elderly care on its agenda and make public any improvements it recommends.
With these remarks, I support the motion.
DR TANG SIU-TONG (in Cantonese): Madam deputy, according to the 1991 census, the number of elderly people aged 65 or above was 500 000 or 8.8% of the total population. The ratio is expected to rise to 11.6% by year 2001 when there will be 710 000 elderly people. The ratio of people aged 70 and over will rise even faster to 7.8%, with their number increasing to 480 000.
The average life expectancy of the population has become longer. This is a welcome trend as it indicates that the community is advancing in the direction of better health, greater stability, higher social progress and increased prosperity. However, under the impact of utilitarianism, the social climate has changed. Extended families are no longer favoured. In the past, it was said that "having an elderly member in a family is like having a treasure". However, the virtue of respecting the old and being filial to one's parents is diminishing. Instead of caring for and showing affection to their elderly parents, many people now consider them to be a burden. Of course, in most cases, this does not mean an absence of love in the family. There is an objective need for people to be busy at work in order to earn a living. Though they want to, they really cannot attend to their parents if they are bedridden or need special care. It is true that, as the Chinese saying goes, "even good children will become less attentive if their parents suffer from prolonged illness". Care and attention homes thus become homes for many elderly people. While children may be criticized for putting their parents in such homes, it is an undisputed fact that such homes are needed in the community. What is regrettable is that care and attention services are woefully inadequate. The sick elderly have no alternative but continue to live in despair.
At present, the care and attention homes subsidized by the Social Welfare Department and operated by non-profitmaking voluntary agencies provide 3 749 places for the elderly people who require a minor degree of nursing care. The number of care and attention places will increase to 4 660 by 1996. But there are nearly 9 000 elderly people on the waiting list. It takes two to three years before they can be admitted. As for infirmary beds, which provide long-term residential nursing care to the elderly, there are just over 1 100 of them. But there are as many as 5 400 people on the waiting list. With a shortfall of 3 400 beds, the demand has far outstripped supply.
At the beginning of this year, the Government published A Report of the Working Party on Residential Nursing Care for the Elderly. The Report recommended that "patients with a better chance of recovery should have higher priority in the assignment of places." This recommendation makes places harder
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to get for elderly patients in need of long-term care and attention. It will be more difficult for them to be admitted into infirmaries to receive professional nursing care. I take strong exception to the above recommendation. The way to solve the problem of shortage is to provide more services. Prioritizing people in need of services while failing to deal with the problem of inadequacy is like trying to solve the problem by pretending that it does not exist. It is a shirking of responsibility on the part of the Government. Birth, ageing, illness and death are inevitable phases of life. Everybody will get sick and grow old. But it now seems to be a sin to get sick or grow old. Children do not want or are not able to take care of their elderly parents. Now, the Government is refusing to give the elderly a helping hand. What are the sick elderly to do? Should they not have the attention of the community?
After five years of study, the Residential Care Homes (Elderly Persons) Bill was finally gazetted in early October. The Bill, when enacted, is sure to affect private residential care homes. There are now 528 care and attention homes in Hong Kong, providing nearly 30 000 places. About 400 of them are privately operated, providing about 12 000 places. With the introduction of the new Ordinance, private homes will face difficulties in meeting the requirements in terms of space, staff ratio and safety. The lack of professional nursing staff will also pose a problem. If private homes are to remain in business, they must sharply raise their charges. This will be a heavy financial burden to the clients who are now using their services. I wonder how many of them will continue to be able to afford their places. People in the industry estimate that about two thirds of the private homes will face the imminent threat of closing down. Should this really happen, the shortage of care and attention places in government-operated and non-profitmaking institutions would become even more pronounced. Unless the Government acts quickly to find short-term solutions to provide more places, it will be hard to prevent many elderly people from being rendered homeless by the failure of private homes.
Anyone who involves himself in elderly services would realize that the Government's paying attention solely to the supervision of private nursing homes is not the basic solution for these problems. Tighter supervision will only cause homes to raise their charges or lead to their closures, with the result that more elderly people will be unable to find places in private homes. At the end of the day, it will be the elderly who are most affected. The Government should supervise private homes but must not shift its responsibility for looking after elderly people onto the private sector. The long-term solution is for the Government to become fully involved in the provision of services for the elderly. It should make a comprehensive plan for elderly services. This will be the basic cure for the problems.
In this year's policy address, the Government acknowledges that the ageing population is creating an acute shortage of elderly care services. But the measures proposed by the Government are like a drop in the ocean which will have little effect in solving the present problem. I do not think that the Government has faced up to the problem squarely or showed the determination
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to solve it. According to the figures from the Samaritan Befrienders, the number of elderly suicide cases rose markedly from 1988 to 1992. In 1988, there were 40.73 suicides for every 100 000 elderly people aged 70 and over. In 1992, the number jumped to 51.98, an increase of 27.6%. The rising figures are nothing to be proud of. They are social tragedies. I hope that the Government will take a square look at the various problems that are due to the ageing of the population and then do something to enable the elderly people to lead a secure and comfortable life.
Madam deputy, with these remarks, I support the motion.
MR MOSES CHENG: Madam deputy, over the last two years, I have taken several opportunities, especially when discussing budgetary considerations, to herald the need for assuring a "dignified and comfortable old age" for all of Hong Kong's elderly population. Today's motion debate brings their plight into direct focus, and can, if pursued correctly and cost-effectively, lead to both immediate and long-term improvements in the health care options that they encounter in the autumn of their lives.
It is fitting and proper that the Government takes the lead, in the short term, to stimulate growth and expansion of care and attention homes, infirmaries, as well as homes for the aged. With a shortage of nearly 5 500 beds and a rapidly aging population, it is clear that not enough has been done to date to accommodate and consistently plan for the current and imminent demands. The dearth of infirmaries is in fact so critical that many care and attention homes and homes for the aged are now doubling their role to act as infirmaries, even though they lack the training, skills, and manpower to carry out these very distinct duties. This situation is simply inadequate and reflects poorly on the Government's standing and long-term commitment to care for our elderly, who deserve much better.
Because of the shortcomings that have befallen the foresight of planners and led to this crisis, the immediate need for temporary or short-term solutions must be considered with a sense of urgency. Too many people, in need of long-term care and attention, hospices or infirmaries for the aged, are occupying hospital bedspace, and displacing those in need of legitimate hospital stays. The net effect has been an undesirable ripple, felt across the healthcare system, which has hindered the Hospital Authority's performance as a provider.
I am repeating the call of my Liberal Party colleague who spoke before me that significantly more nurses, both enrolled and registered, as well as qualified workers are needed to cope with the specialized needs of the aged and infirm. There is no valid reason that the tasks of caring for the elderly should be left to unqualified and unskilled workers by default, when there is a verifiable surplus of mainland-trained nurses, already resident in Hong Kong, yearning to apply themselves and alleviate this burden. Furthermore, the licensing and accreditation system for nursing in general should be reviewed to
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see if foreign-trained but qualified candidates can be licensed specifically to work in healthcare services for the aged. Allow me to suggest that our pragmatism and good sense should prevail over excessive paperwork and bureaucracy in order to address this crisis with the urgency it deserves.
Significantly more places are also needed and interim measures will have to be designed and adopted to cope with this crisis in scale. We should seek to make the best out of an already bad situation by maximizing the experience of the private sector and responsibly regulating its role in a way that stimulates expansion and new growth with elevated standards of care and safety. If we act now to involve the private sector in manner that allows these valued services to proliferate and mature, then it is reasonable and possible to expect both public and private providers to complement each other's services and stay ahead of projected demand.
Private sector participation is positive in that the incentives and disincentives are readily available for the Government to institute and uniformly elevate standards, which creates more choice for consumers and concerned families who are forced to seek care, attention and housing for their aging loved ones. While these homes must be regulated and monitored enough to show compliance with good healthcare and safety standards, a stable balance in regulation must be sought to allow them to flourish and serve such a useful function for our citizens.
Meanwhile, the Bought Place Scheme, in which the Government is purchasing private sector bedspace from qualified providers, is proving successful in sharing responsibility and spreading higher standards and should be expanded as a stopgap measure. Imminently, of course, we should aim to foster a mature, developed, and stable private industry of high quality that provides capacity on demand for care and attention homes, infirmaries, and homes for the aged. While this vision may be several years from realization, the current crisis and aging demographics suggest that it is not too soon to lay the foundation for it today.
In summary, the current crisis of bedspace and treatment facilities for the most venerable members of our society must serve as a catalyst for firm resolve, innovative thinking and a plan of action in both the short and long term. Among the many practical steps that should be taken immediately are measures designed to stem the shortages of nursing care and space for the elderly and infirm. These measures can be pursued by rolling back excess bureaucracy and cost-efficient co-operation with the private sector. Overall, we must seek both qualitative and quantitative increases in the provision of care and attention to our elderly. For the long term, we must commit ourselves to a new consensus that puts principle over and above politics so that we may equitably and evenly make available resources to all our people.
Assistance to the elderly in achieving their right to a "dignified and comfortable old age" is not contingent upon popular politics, but rather the
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compassion, reverence, and respect that are due to these people for their labour during their lifetime.
Madam deputy, with these remarks and this call for action, I support the motion.
SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE: Madam deputy, our policy on elderly services is to encourage the care of elderly people by family members within a family context and to strengthen support for caregivers. The broad aim is to promote the well being of elderly people through care in the community and by the community. To this end, a range of services are provided to enable elderly people to remain at home for as long as possible and to provide support and assistance to caregivers. These services include, for example, home help service, social centres, multi-service centres, day care centres and facilities, community nursing service and community psychiatric nursing service.
It is, however, recognized that the needs of elderly people vary and that residential care may be required for some elderly people who cannot be taken care of at home. Our approach to long-term residential care for elderly people is that it should only be provided to those who have a genuine need for such care. Elderly persons living in institutions often feel abandoned by their families and isolated from society. Elderly people should be enabled to lead an independent and dignified life as part of the community and not in isolation in an institution.
For those who cannot be cared for at home, a range of residential care facilities are provided including, self-care hostels, homes for the aged, care and attention homes and infirmaries.
With the growth of the elderly population in Hong Kong in recent decades, the demand for residential care services for elderly people is increasing. As a result, the considerable expansion of residential care services in recent years has not been able to meet demand. The solution in the long run is to provide a system of integrated care based primarily in the community to enable elderly people to continue to live at home with their families. As an interim measure, more residential care places will be provided and new initiatives will be implemented.
As announced by the Governor in his annual address to this Council on 6 October 1993, an additional 800 care and attention places will be provided during the next two years in addition to the 5 000 care and attention home and home for the aged places pledged in his 1992 annual address. The target set in the 1991 White Paper Social Welfare into the 1990s and Beyond will be fully met by 1997.