HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 26 May 1993 3677 OFFICIAL RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
Wednesday, 26 May 1993
The Council met at half-past Two o'clock
PRESENT
THE PRESIDENT
THE HONOURABLE JOHN JOSEPH SWAINE, C.B.E., LL.D., Q.C., J.P.
THE CHIEF SECRETARY
THE HONOURABLE SIR DAVID ROBERT FORD, K.B.E., L.V.O., J.P.
THE FINANCIAL SECRETARY
THE HONOURABLE NATHANIEL WILLIAM HAMISH MACLEOD, C.B.E., J.P.
THE ATTORNEY GENERAL
THE HONOURABLE JEREMY FELL MATHEWS, C.M.G., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE MRS SELINA CHOW LIANG SHUK-YEE, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE MARTIN LEE CHU-MING, Q.C., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE DAVID LI KWOK-PO, O.B.E., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE NGAI SHIU-KIT, O.B.E., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE PANG CHUN-HOI, M.B.E.
THE HONOURABLE SZETO WAH
THE HONOURABLE TAM YIU-CHUNG
THE HONOURABLE ANDREW WONG WANG-FAT, O.B.E., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE LAU WONG-FAT, O.B.E., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE EDWARD HO SING-TIN, O.B.E., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE RONALD JOSEPH ARCULLI, J.P.
THE HONOURABLE MARTIN GILBERT BARROW, O.B.E., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE MRS PEGGY LAM, O.B.E., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE MRS MIRIAM LAU KIN-YEE, O.B.E., J.P.
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 26 May 1993 3678 THE HONOURABLE LAU WAH-SUM, O.B.E., J.P.
DR THE HONOURABLE LEONG CHE-HUNG, O.B.E. THE HONOURABLE JAMES DAVID McGREGOR, O.B.E., I.S.O., J.P. THE HONOURABLE MRS ELSIE TU, C.B.E.
THE HONOURABLE PETER WONG HONG-YUEN, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE ALBERT CHAN WAI-YIP
THE HONOURABLE VINCENT CHENG HOI-CHUEN THE HONOURABLE CHEUNG MAN-KWONG
THE HONOURABLE CHIM PUI-CHUNG
REV THE HONOURABLE FUNG CHI-WOOD
THE HONOURABLE FREDERICK FUNG KIN-KEE THE HONOURABLE TIMOTHY HA WING-HO, M.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE MICHAEL HO MUN-KA
DR THE HONOURABLE HUANG CHEN-YA
THE HONOURABLE SIMON IP SIK-ON, J.P.
DR THE HONOURABLE LAM KUI-CHUN
DR THE HONOURABLE CONRAD LAM KUI-SHING THE HONOURABLE LAU CHIN-SHEK
THE HONOURABLE EMILY LAU WAI-HING
THE HONOURABLE LEE WING-TAT
THE HONOURABLE ERIC LI KA-CHEUNG, J.P.
THE HONOURABLE FRED LI WAH-MING
THE HONOURABLE STEVEN POON KWOK-LIM
THE HONOURABLE HENRY TANG YING-YEN, J.P. THE HONOURABLE JAMES TO KUN-SUN
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 26 May 1993 3679 DR THE HONOURABLE SAMUEL WONG PING-WAI, M.B.E., J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE PHILIP WONG YU-HONG
DR THE HONOURABLE YEUNG SUM
THE HONOURABLE HOWARD YOUNG, J.P.
THE HONOURABLE ZACHARY WONG WAI-YIN
DR THE HONOURABLE TANG SIU-TONG, J.P.
THE HONOURABLE CHRISTINE LOH KUNG-WAI
THE HONOURABLE ROGER LUK KOON-HOO
THE HONOURABLE ANNA WU HUNG-YUK
ABSENT
THE HONOURABLE ALLEN LEE PENG-FEI, C.B.E., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE HUI YIN-FAT, O.B.E., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE MOSES CHENG MO-CHI
THE HONOURABLE MARVIN CHEUNG KIN-TUNG, J.P.
THE HONOURABLE GILBERT LEUNG KAM-HO
THE HONOURABLE MAN SAI-CHEONG
THE HONOURABLE TIK CHI-YUEN
IN ATTENDANCE
THE HONOURABLE JOHN CHAN CHO-CHAK, L.V.O., O.B.E., J.P. SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION AND MANPOWER
MR JAMES SO YIU-CHO, O.B.E., J.P.
SECRETARY FOR RECREATION AND CULTURE
THE HONOURABLE MICHAEL SZE CHO-CHEUNG, I.S.O., J.P.
SECRETARY FOR CONSTITUTIONAL AFFAIRS
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 26 May 1993 3680
MR ANTHONY GORDON EASON, J.P.
SECRETARY FOR PLANNING, ENVIRONMENT AND LANDS
MR GORDON SIU KWING-CHUE, J.P.
SECRETARY FOR ECONOMIC SERVICES
MR DONALD TSANG YAM-KUEN, J.P.
SECRETARY FOR THE TREASURY
MR JOHN TELFORD, J.P.
SECRETARY FOR TRANSPORT
MR KENNETH JOSEPH WOODHOUSE, J.P.
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY
THE CLERK TO THE LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL
MR CLETUS LAU KWOK-HONG
THE DEPUTY CLERK TO THE LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL MR PATRICK CHAN NIM-TAK
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 26 May 1993 3681 Papers
The following papers were laid on the table pursuant to Standing Order 14(2): Subject
Subsidiary Legislation L.N. No.
Ozone Layer Protection (Controlled Refrigerants)
Regulation ...................................................................................... 158/93
Ozone Layer Protection (Products Containing
Scheduled Substances) (Import Banning)
Regulation ...................................................................................... 159/93
Designation of Libraries (Urban Council Area) Order
1993................................................................................................ 160/93
Public Health and Municipal Services (Public
Pleasure Grounds) (Amendment of Fourth
Schedule) (No. 3) Order 1993 ........................................................ 161/93
Revised Edition of the Laws (Correction of Errors)
(No. 2) Order 1993 ......................................................................... 162/93
Road Traffic (Examination of Private Cars and Light
Goods Vehicles) Order 1993........................................................... 163/93 Urban Council Financial (Amendment) Bylaw 1993 ................................. 164/93
Employees Retraining Ordinance (Amendment of
Schedule 2) (No. 3) Notice 1993 .................................................... 165/93
Shipping and Port Control Ordinance (Exemption)
Notice 1993 .................................................................................... 166/93
Statutes of the Chinese University of Hong Kong
(Amendment) Statutes 1993 ........................................................... 167/93
Sessional Papers 1992-93
No. 80 — Regional Council
Revised Estimates of Expenditure 1992-93
No. 81 — Report of the Police Complaints Committee 1992
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 26 May 1993 3682 Address
Report of the Police Complaints Committee 1992
MRS PEGGY LAM (in Cantonese): Mr President, on behalf of the Police Complaints Committee, may I present the Committee's Annual Report for 1992.
The Committee is an independent body, appointed by the Governor, to monitor and review the investigation of complaints made by the public against the police. Investigations are carried out by the Complaints Against Police Office (CAPO) of the Royal Hong Kong Police Force. CAPO's reports, together with the relevant files, are examined by the Committee, which is assisted by an independent secretariat. A case is finalized only after the investigation result has been endorsed by the Committee.
I shall now highlight some of the contents in the Committee's Report.
Compared to previous annual reports, the contents of the report 1992 have been substantially enlarged. Chapters 2 to 6 describe, in more elaborating terms, the receipt, classification and examination of investigation reports on police complaints by the Police Complaints Committee. Where applicable these are illustrated by actual cases. Two new chapters have been introduced. Chapter 7 reports on the review of the existing system. This review stemmed from my attendance at the conference organized by the International Association of Civilian Oversight of Law Enforcement in San Diego in September 1992. I had the opportunity to exchange information with sister organizations and to compare the police complaints systems in other overseas jurisdictions. Following my report on the conference, the majority of Police Complaints Committee members agreed to a number of recommendations to strengthen the existing system. These were put to the Administration in December 1992 for its consideration. I am delighted that the Administration has recently accepted most of the recommendations. The Police Complaints Committee will be actively pursuing their implementation in co-operation with the Administration.
During the year under report, the Committee has reviewed and endorsed a total of 3 250 complaint cases, embracing 4 146 allegations. With the support of an independent secretariat, the Committee has been able to vet in details each and every complaint case. Arising from these complaints, various forms of legal, disciplinary and internal actions have been taken against, and advice given to, 161 police officers. In addition, the Committee has proposed a number of reviews of, and changes to, police practices, procedures and instructions. It is hoped that the Commissioner of Police finds the Committee's proposals helpful in identifying and rectifying areas which lead, or might lead, to complaints.
The 3 250 complaints received in 1992 should be viewed in the context of at least 3.13 million potential police-public confrontation situations in the year. These included 1.14 million persons stopped and checked through the Enhanced Police Operational Nominal Index Computer System (EPONICS), and 1.99
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million traffic summonses and tickets issued by the police. The difficult nature of the front line duties of police work to protect the community should also be borne in mind.
Of particular concern to the Committee was that the increase in the percentage of allegations of police assault continued in 1992. During the year, a total of 1 659 reports were made, representing 51% of all complaints received in 1992. In represents 44.1% of all allegations received in 1992 compared with 43.5% in 1991 and 38% in 1990. It is, however, worth noting that a significant number of allegations of assault were later withdrawn or not pursued by the complainants. In 1992, 88.2% of these allegations were classified as withdrawn or not pursuable and endorsed as such by the Committee. The Committee however considers that this aspect needs to be looked at and has set up a Survey Subcommittee to probe into the causes for withdrawn/not pursuable cases.
For the first time, the Report in its Chapter 8 provides 25 case summaries of interest. For the community to have confidence in the complaints system, a prerequisite is knowledge of how it works. The earlier chapters, Chapter 2, 3 and 4 in particular, have described in some detail the framework, the procedures and some of the factors affecting the Committee's deliberation. Such information, whilst useful, is probably not as telling as accounts of actual cases. Chapter 8 hopefully will give the readers a glimpse of the efforts made by the investigating officers, the contributions made by the Committee and the various factors taken into account in classifying a complaint. Some of these cases may promote a better understanding of police procedures and policies.
I reported last year that the Informal Resolution Scheme would be implemented at full scale with effect from 1 January 1992. This has been done. During 1992, 363 minor complaints were informally resolved with the agreement of the complainant. The Committee considers the scheme useful in resolving minor complaints in order that efforts may be concentrated on more serious complaints.
Finally, on behalf of the Committee, I would like to place on record our appreciation of the co-operation given to the Committee by the Commissioner of Police, and his officers in CAPO in particular.
Oral answers to questions
Air pollution caused by diesel vehicles
1. MR PETER WONG asked: In view of the serious air pollution problem caused by diesel vehicles, will the Government inform this Council what measures are being taken to alleviate the problem and whether consideration will be given to requiring the use of cleaner diesel fuel such as the "City Diesel" being used by trucks and buses in Sweden?
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SECRETARY FOR PLANNING, ENVIRONMENT AND LANDS: Mr President, air pollution from diesel vehicles is mainly caused by their emission of black smoke and other particulates, and this is basically due to poor maintenance. The principal form of action taken against the problem is a testing programme aimed at achieving better vehicle maintenance. The programme involves spotting, calling up and testing "smoky vehicles". In 1992, almost 46 000 vehicles were tested to ensure compliance with the standards stipulated in the Road Traffic (Construction and Maintenance of Vehicles) Regulations. Where they did not respond to call-up notices or meet emission requirements, their licences were cancelled. There were more than 2 500 such cancellations.
Another measure adopted to attack the problem is the vehicle examination programme which, in addition to checking for roadworthiness and safety, checks engine emissions to ensure compliance with the same construction and maintenance regulations. Under this programme, buses, public light buses and taxis are all checked annually. From 1 June 1993, these annual checks will be extended to all light goods vehicles, and to medium and heavy goods vehicles manufactured before 1989.
In addition to these vehicle inspection programmes, we also propose the introduction of a higher quality automotive diesel fuel with a lower sulphur content to reduce the sulphur content from 0.5% to 0.2%, and the adoption of more stringent emission standards for large diesel engines. This is known as the EURO 1 Standard. We aim to introduce both of these requirements in 1995.
We are also examining the feasibility of an improved vehicle emission inspection and maintenance programme, and higher penalties for smoky vehicles. In addition, the feasibility of requiring new light duty vehicles to run on unleaded petrol rather than diesel is being looked into once again.
As for the Swedish "City Diesel" referred to in the question, as I understand it, this fuel has properties which are very different from those of other diesel fuels used worldwide. It has been introduced in Sweden in conjunction with the design and manufacture of a very limited number of new engines. It is not at all clear as yet whether and what benefits would result by its use in the many different types of engines we have in Hong Kong. However, the Director of Environmental Protection is monitoring the Swedish initiative and if it becomes clear that there would be benefits and if its introduction is feasible, we will consider it.
MR PETER WONG: Mr President, apart from lowering the sulphur content of diesel, what plans are there to reduce the levels of polyaromatic hydrocarbons which is one of the main harmful ingredients of diesel emissions today?
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SECRETARY FOR PLANNING, ENVIRONMENT AND LANDS: Mr President, I think I have outlined in the answer to the principal question the series of measures that I am able to give specific information on this afternoon. As for the answer to the question which has just been posed, it is a very technical one and I will offer a written response. (Annex I)
MISS CHRISTINE LOH: Mr President, are there any plans to legislate on controlling speed limits and turning off the engine when a car is waiting in order to control vehicle emissions into the environment?
SECRETARY FOR PLANNING, ENVIRONMENT AND LANDS: Mr President, there are no proposals for such measures in the pipeline at the present time. But I think in the context of our examination of the problems of air pollution we will be considering a very considerable range of possible solutions, amongst which the two just mentioned could well feature, but at this stage they are not under active consideration.
DR SAMUEL WONG: Mr President, could this Council be informed why the EURO 1 Standard and the use of lower sulphur diesel fuel, as mentioned in the third paragraph of the Secretary's reply, could not be introduced this year but has to wait until 1995?
SECRETARY FOR PLANNING, ENVIRONMENT AND LANDS: Mr President, I think it is in the nature of changes of this kind that the trade, the users of vehicles and indeed this legislature require some notice of changes in order for adjustments to be made to meet the requirements that these new standards will require.
MR EDWARD HO: Mr President, will the Secretary inform this Council whether he is aware or not of the status of our major diesel fleet operators and whether they have examined the merits of using "City Diesel"?
SECRETARY FOR PLANNING, ENVIRONMENT AND LANDS: Mr President, I cannot speak this afternoon on behalf of the diesel fleet operators. I think I have said as much as I know about the current state of play on "City Diesel" in Sweden, and as I have said, we are keeping in touch with that particular initiative. And if it proves to be something that might be applied in Hong Kong, then we would be interested in taking that forward and we would certainly consult the diesel fleet operators at that stage.
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 26 May 1993 3686
REV FUNG CHI-WOOD (in Cantonese): Mr President, the pollution caused by diesel vehicles is more serious than that by petrol vehicles. I am glad to know that the Administration is considering again reducing the number of diesel vehicles. When will the Administration make a firm decision on this?
SECRETARY FOR PLANNING, ENVIRONMENT AND LANDS: Mr President, I think I have indicated that the next significant step, which will be the reduction of sulphur content and the adoption of more stringent emission standards for large diesel engines under EURO 1 Standard, should be introduced in 1995.
REV FUNG CHI-WOOD (in Cantonese): I am sorry, Mr President. I am referring to the second last paragraph of the Secretary's reply in which it says that the feasibility of requiring new vehicles to run on unleaded petrol rather than diesel is being looked into. I understand at the moment the Administration is drafting some proposals to encourage vehicles now using diesel to turn to petrol so as to reduce the number of diesel vehicles. May I ask when a firm decision on its implementation will be made?
SECRETARY FOR PLANNING, ENVIRONMENT AND LANDS: Mr President, just to quote again, what I said in my initial answer was that, in addition, the feasibility of requiring light duty vehicles to run on unleaded petrol rather than diesel is being looked into once again, and I think it is clear from that answer that it is not a proposal which we are actually on the brink of making firmly for introduction at a particular time, and I hesitate to use the phrase "as soon as possible". But we will be trying to move ahead with our examination of all the measures that I have referred to as quickly as we can.
Hong Kong's participation in international treaties
2. MR HOWARD YOUNG asked (in Cantonese): Will the Government inform this Council of:
(a) the number of international treaties in which Hong Kong's continued participation may cease when it becomes a Special Administrative Region of China; and
(b) the progress of the efforts made in retaining Hong Kong's continued participation in these treaties after 1997?
ATTORNEY GENERAL: Mr President, there are at present over 200 multilateral treaties and about 180 bilateral treaties which have been extended to Hong Kong by the United Kingdom. The objective of the
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 26 May 1993 3687
Hong Kong Government is to ensure that all of those treaties which are of significant benefit to Hong Kong will continue to apply to the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region after 30 June 1997.
In accordance with Annex II of the Joint Declaration, a Subgroup on International Rights and Obligations has been established under the Sino-British Joint Liaison Group to consider the necessary action to be taken by the British and Chinese Governments to ensure the continued application of existing international rights and obligations affecting Hong Kong.
Agreement has already been reached between the two sides on the continued application of about half of the multilateral treaties. Consideration in the Subgroup of most of the others is taking place.
As regards the bilateral treaties, these will lapse in respect of Hong Kong after 30 June 1997. Discussion is therefore under way in the Joint Liaison Group on programmes for Hong Kong to negotiate, where there is a need, on its own, bilateral agreements which can remain in force after 1997. Some agreements have already been concluded in the fields of air services, investment promotion and protection, and the surrender of fugitive offenders.
MR HOWARD YOUNG (in Cantonese): Mr President, in his reply just now the Attorney General has said that agreement has already been reached between the two sides in respect of about half of the multilateral treaties but no mention is made of the bilateral treaties. May I ask if bilateral treaties and aviation agreements in particular, which are a major concern of our tourist industry, have also achieved as good a progress as multilateral treaties in that agreement has also been reached in respect of about half of the treaties?
ATTORNEY GENERAL: Mr President, we are making steady progress with the bilateral agreements. It is not possible at this stage to say what proportion we have completed. Perhaps it would help the Council if I was to give the figures for progress thus far in relation to bilateral treaties. Eleven bilateral treaties have been signed. One of those is for the surrender of fugitives, one is for investment protection and promotion, and nine are for air services. And that covers treaties signed. A further 18 bilateral agreements have been initialled, three for the surrender of fugitives, eight of investment protection and promotion, and seven for air services.
MR LAU WAH-SUM (in Cantonese): Mr President, referring to the multilateral treaties on which agreement has yet to reach as mentioned in the third paragraph of his reply, will the Attorney General inform this Council when they would be completed and whether there is a timetable for their completion? Can the Administration also list out those bilateral treaties which cannot take effect automatically?
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 26 May 1993 3688 PRESIDENT: Have you got the two questions, Attorney General?
ATTORNEY GENERAL: Mr President, as regards our time frame for multilateral agreements, it is our intention and our hope that we will have secured well before 1997 the agreement of the Chinese side to the continued application of those multilateral agreements which we believe confer a substantial benefit to Hong Kong.
As regards bilateral treaties, I am afraid it is not possible to give the figures that Mr LAU seeks. As I indicated in my main answer in relation to bilaterals, what we are doing is to agree programmes with the Chinese side on the negotiation of new bilateral agreements which will apply to Hong Kong and which will remain in force after 1997.
MS ANNA WU: Mr President, with regard to the penultimate paragraph of the answer relating to the continued application of about half of the multilateral treaties, can the Attorney General state how Hong Kong will continue to enjoy the benefit of these arrangements? In other words, what will be the status of Hong Kong on these treaties and will China, for instance, sign on behalf of Hong Kong, and if so, when?
ATTORNEY GENERAL: Mr President, as I have already indicated, agreement has already been reached with the Chinese side on the continued application of about half of the multilateral treaties. When the process is at an end, there will have to be a document that will give effect to that agreement. That will be a document which will list out all the multilateral agreements that will continue to apply after 1997 and it will be an instrument to which China will either be a party or will have signified its agreement. That will be a public document and it will be a document that will be registered at the United Nations.
MS ANNA WU: Mr President, I do not believe the question has been answered. I would like to know how exactly Hong Kong's legal status on these treaties will be handled. At the moment they are applied to Hong Kong through the United Kingdom. Is the Attorney General saying that the Chinese Government will be signing on behalf of Hong Kong in future or that Hong Kong will be signing in its own name?
ATTORNEY GENERAL: Mr President, the status of Hong Kong in relation to international treaties is of course a matter set out in the Joint Declaration and the Basic Law.
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MISS CHRISTINE LOH: Mr President, can the Attorney General tell us whether China is going to accede to the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights and the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights? If China is not going to accede to the covenants, what will the British Government do?
PRESIDENT: Are you able to answer that, Attorney General?
ATTORNEY GENERAL: Mr President, I am certainly not able to answer the first part. I am afraid that question will have to be directed to another person.
As regards the second part, the Joint Declaration and the Basic Law — Article 39 of the Basic Law — provide for the continued application of the two covenants mentioned by the Honourable Member to Hong Kong after 1997.
DR TANG SIU-TONG (in Cantonese): Mr President, given that the row between China and Britain has delayed the work of the Sino-British Joint Liaison Group and that bilateral treaties would lapse after 30 June 1997, does the Administration have any ways and means to ensure that an agreement in respect of bilateral treaties can be reached before 1997?
ATTORNEY GENERAL: That is my earnest hope, Mr President.
MISS EMILY LAU: Mr President, is the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights one of the items being examined by the Subgroup on International Rights and Obligations, and if so, what steps have been taken to ensure that Hong Kong, after 1997, will continue to be subject to the scrutiny of the United Nations Human Rights Committee, which of course is one of the requirements of the covenant?
ATTORNEY GENERAL: Mr President, as I have already indicated, the continued application of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights is specifically provided for in the Joint Declaration and in the Basic Law. In the ICCPR, as some Members will know, Article 40 provides for reporting obligations. I see no reason why those obligations should not continue to exist after 1997.
MISS EMILY LAU: Mr President, can I follow up on this? I am sure the Government knows that Hong Kong is not a party to the covenant; we are only a party through the United Kingdom; and China is not a party. So, will the Attorney General please explain to this Council how on earth Hong Kong will
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 26 May 1993 3690
be subject to the scrutiny of the United Nations Human Rights Committee after 1997 unless the Government can now make some arrangement for Hong Kong to accede to the convenant on its own, or unless China will accede so that Hong Kong will be subject to the scrutiny under China's membership?
ATTORNEY GENERAL: Mr President, I must repeat that the continued application of the ICCPR is provided for in the Joint Declaration, itself an international treaty registered at the United Nations. That commitment to continue the application of the ICCPR to Hong Kong, because there is no qualification, carries with it those terms of the ICCPR that apply to Hong Kong, including Article 40.
MR EDWARD HO: Mr President, will the Attorney General please advise this Council as to whether the bilateral treaties that he referred to include those that allow professional institutions in Hong Kong to participate as full members in international organizations as they are at present?
ATTORNEY GENERAL: Mr President, the multilateral agreements to which I have referred in my main answer make provision for Hong Kong to continue as member of a large number of international organizations, some 22 of those, including the International Maritime Organization, the World Health Organization and other similar organizations. I am not sure if Mr HO is referring to those or if he is referring to some other international organizations. Perhaps he could elucidate.
MR EDWARD HO: Mr President, I am referring to such professional organizations as the International Federation of Architects where the Hong Kong Institute of Architects can participate as a full member.
ATTORNEY GENERAL: Mr President, I would have to take advice on that. I am not sure that such bodies are the subject of international treaties, but perhaps I can look into that and let Mr HO have an answer in writing. (Annex II)
MR SIMON IP: Mr President, in relation to the reporting obligation under the ICCPR, will the Attorney General please tell us whether what he has said just now is his own interpretation of what is required after 1997, or whether in fact he has obtained confirmation from China that after 1997 China will assume the reporting obligation?
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ATTORNEY GENERAL: Mr President, I was simply describing the position as it appears to be under the Joint Declaration.
MR FREDERICK FUNG (in Cantonese): Mr President, when I met the Foreign Secretary Mr Douglas HURD during my recent visit to Britain, I asked him the same question that Miss Emily LAU has asked in the hope that he would clarify. At the time the Foreign Secretary told me that the last report on human rights to be submitted to the United Nations by Britain would be in 1994. After that, it would be a matter for China. He did not give any assurance as to whether China would do the same but the British Government was willing to follow that up. May I ask the Attorney General to clarify whether what he has said or what the Foreign Secretary Mr Douglas HURD has said is correct?
PRESIDENT: Are you able to answer that, Attorney General?
ATTORNEY GENERAL: I do not think it is appropriate for me to comment on what the Foreign Secretary has said, Mr President.
Accidents in MTR stations
3. MRS SELINA CHOW asked: Will the Government inform this Council how many accidents where passengers, especially children, have fallen off the edge of platforms in Mass Transit Railway stations have occurred in the past five years; whether these accidents are related to crowding on the platform; and what measures are adopted by the Mass Transit Railway to prevent such accidents?
SECRETARY FOR TRANSPORT: Mr President, 125 people, including 29 children, have accidentally fallen from the platforms at Mass Transit Railway stations during the past five years. The annual figures are annexed to the reply.
The people concerned were interviewed by MTR staff as part of their investigation into each accident and none claimed to have fallen on the track because of platform crowding. According to MTRC records, the incidents were evenly spread throughout the day and were not particularly prevalent during peak travelling times when the platforms were most crowded.
To prevent such accidents occurring as far as possible, the MTRC has taken a number of measures:
(a) all platforms are adequately lit and kept free from obstruction;
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(b) to act as a visual reminder to passengers, a yellow line is painted near to the edge of the platform. In addition, the edges of all platforms are now being painted white;
(c) regular announcements are made to remind passengers to stand behind the yellow line;
(d) a platform queuing scheme has been introduced to facilitate orderly boarding and alighting from trains. Platform assistants are provided to help with crowd control at busy stations during peak hours; and
(e) the Corporation organizes annual courtesy and safety campaigns for the users of the system.
Annex
Number of Persons Accidentally Falling on
the Tracks at MTR Stations
1988 27 (5)
1989 19 (7)
1990 28 (12)
1991 17 (3)
1992 34 (2) ----- -----
Total: 125 (29)
The numbers of passengers aged 12 or under included in the total figures are shown in brackets.
MRS SELINA CHOW: Mr President, of the figures given in the Annex, how many involve passengers falling into the gap between the train and the platform and what has been done to address this specific problem?
SECRETARY FOR TRANSPORT: Mr President, if I can provide the figures first of all, the numbers who have fallen into the platform gap are:
In 1988 : six
In 1989 : eight
In 1990 : 15
In 1991 : five
In 1992 : four
As far as measures to prevent people falling into the platform gap are concerned, I have mentioned already some of those measures: there is the
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yellow line which is placed 0.6 m behind the platform edge; white lines are now being provided in all stations; there are regular announcements both in the train and on the platform to advise people to stand back and to avoid the platform gap; publicity material has been provided by the Corporation in the form of booklets and posters. On platforms where the gap is particularly wide, under-platform lighting has been provided to illuminate the gap and teaching-aid kits are being distributed to all primary schools to advise children on how to use the system safely.
MR STEVEN POON (in Cantonese): Mr President, can the Administration inform this Council whether some MTR stations have more accidents than others; if so, what measures there are to improve the situation?
SECRETARY FOR TRANSPORT: Mr President, the problem tends to occur in stations where the platform gap is wider than normal and those are situations where the platform is curved and the track is curved and for that reason the gap can be rather wider. In those particular stations, announcements are made more frequently and, as I have said earlier, we have under-platform lighting to illuminate the gap and hopefully keep people back from it.
MR STEVEN POON (in Cantonese): Mr President, can the Administration inform this Council which stations have more accidents than others?
SECRETARY FOR TRANSPORT: Mr President, I do not have a breakdown of the stations where the accidents have occurred, but I can say that the stations where the platforms are curved are Admiralty, Mong Kok and Central, in particular.
DR LAM KUI-CHUN: Mr President, figures in the Annex supplied by the Secretary for Transport show no downward trend in the frequency of people falling on the tracks in the MTR stations in the last five years. Will the Government inform this Council whether there was or will be any publicity campaign to raise public awareness on the problem so as to minimize its further recurrence, or whether the Government expects the measures outlined in the third paragraph of the Secretary's main answer to show their effect as a decreasing trend in the figures of such accidents in the near future?
SECRETARY FOR TRANSPORT: Mr President, as I mentioned earlier, campaigns are being organized now on an annual basis — with posters and booklets widely distributed; educational kits passed to schools; and quite a major publicity effort being made to reduce the incidence of people falling on the tracks. But I think we also need to look at the reasons for people falling on the
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tracks so that we can see that in some cases it may be very difficult to address the problem. Some of the major causes are:
Sickness of passengers : People under the influence of medicine and drugs. Misconduct by passengers : People playing on the platform in their drunkenness.
People who simply claim that they were not aware of
the proximity of the track.
I think in all these circumstances it is rather difficult to eliminate the problem altogether, although we would dearly like to. I think we also should look at the statistics in a rather different way. Although there are, on average, 25 cases of people falling on the track per annum, the system does carry 2.2 million per day or 800 million passengers per year.
DR CONRAD LAM (in Cantonese): Mr President, the Secretary has just listed a number of reasons for such accidents, but can the Administration inform this Council what the three main reasons are?
SECRETARY FOR TRANSPORT: Yes, Mr President, the three main reasons in 1992 were:
Sickness of people on the platform, including, as I have mentioned before, those under the influence of medicine and drugs.
People losing their balance for various reasons. And also, passengers' misconduct.
MR CHEUNG MAN-KWONG (in Cantonese): Mr President, if we cannot eliminate the problem (whatever its causes) of passengers falling on the tracks, then are there ways to alert the operator at the first opportunity to make him stop his train immediately so that it will not pose any danger to the lives of passengers who fall on the tracks?
SECRETARY FOR TRANSPORT: Mr President, I think, as Members know, within each compartment there is an emergency button which can be pressed by members of the public in case of emergency, including the incidence of people slipping on to the track.
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MR CHEUNG MAN-KWONG (in Cantonese): Mr President, since not every passenger on the train knows that there is an emergency button, and if someone has fallen on the track and nobody within the train presses the emergency button, can the operator possibly know in such circumstances that someone has fallen on the track?
SECRETARY FOR TRANSPORT: Mr President, of course the operator can be alerted by people on the platform or within the train. But I could mention that for people slipping through the platform gap, the incidence of injury is extremely low. On the figures I gave Members earlier, there have only been minor injuries in the last four years and by that I mean scratches, bruises, that sort of thing.
MR PETER WONG: Mr President, to what extent can accidents be avoided by erecting barriers, such as those in the MTR of Singapore, and what would the costs be?
SECRETARY FOR TRANSPORT: Mr President, I do not have figures on the costs for screen-doors, but the value of screen-doors is in some doubt, as I understand it, internationally. While screen-doors can certainly stop people from falling on to the track, there is a risk that people could become caught between the screen-doors and the train. The screen-doors could interrupt the evacuation of trains in an emergency situation. And if it happened that the train did not stop immediately opposite the scrren-doors, then there could also be a danger of people trying to get from the entrance to the screen-door.
MR JIMMY McGREGOR: Mr President, can the Secretary give the figures for people injured or killed in these accidents? Has compensation been claimed or paid?
SECRETARY FOR TRANSPORT: Mr President, I am not aware of any situation where people were claiming compensation from the MTRC. In terms of injuries for people slipping through the platform gap, the situation is as follows:
In 1988 : one serious injury, one minor
In 1989 : four minor injuries
In 1990 : nine minor injuries
In 1991 : four minor injuries
In 1992 : two minor injuries
And one so far this year.
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 26 May 1993 3696 PRESIDENT: Is that the answer you wanted, Mr McGREGOR?
MR JIMMY McGREGOR: Not really, Mr President. I mean in regard to all of the accidents which the Secretary has named in his schedule, how many people in these accidents have been actually injured or killed?
SECRETARY FOR TRANSPORT: Mr President, the only figures I have with me are for those who have slipped through the platform gap. But I can certainly provide a written reply. (Annex III)
Crimes committed at Vietnamese migrants detention centres
4. MR WONG WAI-YIN asked (in Cantonese): Will the Government inform this Council of the following:
(a) the number of crimes committed at Vietnamese migrants detention centres in the three years up to the end of March this year; the classification of these crimes by type; and the number of crimes involving the use of intimidation or violence to dissuade migrants from participating in the voluntary repatriation programme; and
(b) the measures taken to safeguard migrants against harassment by lawless elements seeking to influence their decision to participate in the voluntary repatriation programme?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr President,
(a) The police have only kept separate records of crimes in Vietnamese migrants centres since April 1991. I regret, therefore, that I only have statistics for the last two years. 520 crimes were reported in Vietnamese detention centres in 1991-92 and 269 in 1992-93.
Of the 520 in 1991-92, 348 were violent crimes and 172 were non-violent crimes; whilst out of the 269 in 1992-93, 227 were violent crimes and 42 were non-violent crimes.
No separate statistics are kept on intimidation or the use of violence to dissuade migrants from joining the voluntary repatriation programme.
(b) The Administration and the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees have made strenuous efforts to persuade Vietnamese migrants to join the voluntary repatriation programme. Those who decide to volunteer are moved to voluntary repatriation centres,
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which house only fellow volunteers. This reinforces their decision to volunteer and frees them from any pressures from lawless elements who might wish them to withdraw. Any illegal or suspected unlawful acts are reported to the police for appropriate action.
Additionally, the Administration is empowered under the Immigration Ordinance (Cap. 115) and the Immigration (Vietnamese Boat People) (Detention Centre) Rules to separately detain or to transfer Vietnamese who attempt to threaten or intimidate other detention centre inmates.
MR WONG WAI-YIN (in Cantonese): Mr President, will the Administration consider giving priority to mandatory repatriation of lawless elements in Vietnamese detention centres who often commit crimes or harass other migrants? If yes, what measures are there to prevent them from using force to resist repatriation? If no, what are the reasons?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr President, the situation with regard to lawlessness in Vietnamese migrants centres is similar to that which applies throughout the rest of Hong Kong. If any Vietnamese migrant commits a crime he is treated in the same way as other members of the community. The one difference arises in the case of an offender who, after due process of law, has been sentenced by the court to imprisonment for more than two years; then the offence in question becomes a deportable offence, and Vietnamese migrants who are convicted of a deportable offence can and are deported at the end of their sentence.
PRESIDENT: Is that the answer to your question, Mr WONG?
MR WONG WAI-YIN (in Cantonese): Mr President, the Secretary may have misunderstood my question. My question is: since some migrants in Vietnamese migrants centres are harassing other migrants and many of the inmates find this very distressing, will the Administration consider giving priority to repatriation of migrants who are harassing others?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr President, the situation with regard to those who are harassing other Vietnamese migrants is that they are subject to report and, subject to the person being harassed coming forward and providing the necessary evidence, we will then take action against the Vietnamese concerned. We have screened out the vast majority of Vietnamese migrants in Hong Kong and, therefore, every single one of them is a target for us to try and
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persuade to return to Vietnam. We have a situation where we are trying to encourage as many of those to return as possible.
MR WONG WAI-YIN (in Cantonese): Mr President, in fact my question is very simple. I asked whether the Administration would consider giving priority to repatriation of Vietnamese migrants who are harassing others.
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: I am sorry, Mr President, I am still a little confused as to the question. The situation is that we are trying to give priority to repatriation of all of the Vietnamese migrants. As regards those who are guilty of any offences in the centres, as I have already explained, we take legal action against them in the same way that we would take legal action against anyone committing a crime in Hong Kong.
MR CHIM PUI-CHUNG (in Cantonese): Mr President, from the reply of the acting Secretary, we understand that some Vietnamese migrants in fact break the laws of Hong Kong. Our community has to spend money on them as a result, and it has an adverse impact on our reputation too. Will the acting Secretary confirm that the Authority will strictly enforce the rules of the Vietnamese migrants camps and that Vietnamese migrants who refuse to return will be detained separately, for example in Tai A Chau or other places, so as to make it easier to keep watch on them?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr President, yes, I can confirm that. In the first situation regarding those who break the law, they are dealt with in exactly the same way as any other lawbreaker in Hong Kong and are subject to the same process of law. If they are found guilty, they are sentenced according to the law and serve prison sentences in Hong Kong's penal institutions in the same way as any other convicted criminal.
As I have said, should the offence of which they are convicted be a deportable offence, deportation proceedings will be undertaken prior to their release. To date, 105 Vietnamese migrants have been deported back to Vietnam following completion of their sentences.
Regarding the other category mentioned in the question, in 1992, we separately detained slightly over 1 000 Vietnamese migrants as punishment, and for the four months between January and April this year, 347 were so detained. The length of detention is usually between one and two weeks, and under the Immigration (Vietnamese Boat People) (Detention Centre) Rules it may not exceed 28 days.
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DR LEONG CHE-HUNG: Mr President, can the Secretary provide a comparison between the crime rate for the Vietnamese camps and the crime rate applying to crowded districts of Hong Kong, such as Mong Kok and Yau Ma Tei?
PRESIDENT: Do you have those figures handy, Secretary?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr President, I am afraid the Honourable Member has been a little too specific. But if I could perhaps respond by giving the more general figures. In terms of overall crime, the Vietnamese have a lower crime rate than that of the whole of Hong Kong. The crime rate, which is defined as the number of crime cases per 100 000 of population, amongst Vietnamese migrants for 1991-92 is 880, compared with 1 535 for the whole of Hong Kong; the crime rate amongst Vietnamese migrants for 1992-93 is 564, compared with 1 454 for the whole of Hong Kong. The crime rate amongst Vietnamese migrants and the number of crimes reported has shown a decline, due in no small part to the increased work and vigilance of the Correctional Services Department staff and others looking after Vietnamese migrants.
MR MARTIN BARROW: Mr President, in paragraph (b) of his answer, the Secretary said that strenuous efforts have been made to encourage voluntary returns. However, I understand that there are no more than 25 full-time counsellors for 40 000 migrants, which surely does demonstrate a particularly strenuous effort. What plans does the Secretary have to step up the level of counselling?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr President, counselling is given to Vietnamese migrants by the Administration and the UNHCR to try and persuade them to volunteer to return. The UNHCR instructs all of their staff to act as voluntary repatriation counsellors and to give out information and to advise on the programme. Government staff in detention centres have also been briefed on the scheme and can give general advice and encourage active volunteering but they pass prospective volunteers on to the UNHCR for detailed counselling. The UNHCR provides reintegration assistance and other assistance schemes such as the European Community Credit Scheme in Vietnam, and these are explained to potential volunteers. Frequently, updated information on the current political and economic life of Vietnam is given in the form of newspapers, magazines and videos. Two voluntary repatriation centres have been opened in the Whitehead Detention Centre to accommodate volunteers only and to provide an environment where volunteers are together and free from any harassment or pressure from those opposed to voluntary repatriation.
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We are exploring further initiatives with the UNHCR to increase the number of volunteers and also to ensure that new volunteers are transferred to the voluntary repatriation centres immediately they volunteer, rather than letting them remain in the detention centres for some days whilst arrangements for transfers are made.
MS ANNA WU: Mr President, with regard to those who were deported after serving a prison sentence in Hong Kong, can the Secretary indicate the average length of their sentences in Hong Kong, and the offences of which they were convicted?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr President, I do not have the details with me but I can provide a written reply on that. (Annex IV) All of the 105 people who have been deported were sentenced to terms of imprisonment in excess of two years but I would be happy to provide the details requested by the Honourable Member, in writing.
Exchange Fund Advisory Committee
5. MR FREDERICK FUNG asked (in Cantonese): Will the Government inform this Council whether it is aware of the number of members in the Exchange Fund Advisory Committee who have the right of abode in other countries; and whether there is any plan to introduce a localization policy to the composition of this Committee?
FINANCIAL SECRETARY: Mr President, the answer to both parts of the question is "No, Mr President".
MR FREDERICK FUNG (in Cantonese): Mr President, in other countries, organizations that play a role similar to that of a central bank usually are made up of members who are nationals of their own countries. In the case of the Exchange Fund Advisory Committee of Hong Kong, part of its function is to play the role of a central bank. The answer of the Secretary to both parts of the question is "No", does it mean that he is not aware of that or simply he is not willing to disclose? If he is not aware of that, is the Government prepared to understand the situation, publish the relevant information and introduce a localization policy? If he is not willing to disclose, what are the reasons?
FINANCIAL SECRETARY: Mr President, I think my answer was entirely clear. The first part of the question was asking me whether the Government was aware of the number of members in the Exchange Fund Advisory Committee who have the right of abode in other countries to which the answer
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was "no". The second part was whether there is any plan to introduce a localization policy to the composition of this Committee to which the answer was "no". I think the meaning of my answer was entirely clear but I am very happy to clarify it.
MR FREDERICK FUNG (in Cantonese): The Secretary has not answered my question. PRESIDENT: Well, would you rather put the question again, Mr FUNG, please?
MR FREDERICK FUNG (in Cantonese): Mr President, my follow-up question is: if the Government is unaware of that, are there plans to understand the situation and publish the relevant information, and if the Government is not willing to disclose, what are the reasons? The answer given by the Secretary just now is in effect repeating what he has said. My question is: if the Government is not aware which member has the right of abode in other countries, does it intend to find that out?
FINANCIAL SECRETARY: Mr President, again, I think I must say that my answer was entirely clear. We do not keep records. I do not ask for information as to who has the right of abode in other countries; I do not have that knowledge even of Mr FUNG. It is not the sort of information which is published and it is not the normal meaning attached to localization.
MR VINCENT CHENG: Mr President, does the Financial Secretary agree that members of the Exchange Fund Advisory Committee are appointed on the basis of their knowledge of international financial markets and the absence of the right of abode in other countries cannot be a substitute for such qualification?
FINANCIAL SECRETARY: Yes, Mr President.
MR JIMMY McGREGOR: Mr President, can the Financial Secretary advise whether his "no" would also apply to all other government committees, boards and councils, including this one?
PRESIDENT: Have you any answer to that one, Financial Secretary?
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FINANCIAL SECRETARY: Mr President, fortunately the question only related to the Exchange Fund Advisory Committee, but I would seek your ruling on whether it can be extended to all other committees.
PRESIDENT: It is not really a supplementary within Standing Orders, Mr McGREGOR. Mr FUNG, do you have one final question?
MR FREDERICK FUNG (in Cantonese): Mr President, according to the reply of the Financial Secretary, one's qualification will be considered. In actuality, even if we have a list with us, we still cannot find out who hold foreign passports, or perhaps only the Financial Secretary is able to do that. May I ask the Administration whether it will appoint those who do not have the right of abode in other countries but possess the required qualification?
FINANCIAL SECRETARY: Mr President, we do not look at the question of right of abode in other countries in looking at membership of this Committee.
Security measures in public housing estates
6. MRS PEGGY LAM asked (in Cantonese): In view of recent signs of deterioration of law and order in public housing estates, will the Government inform this Council whether consideration will be given to improving the security measures in public housing estates, such as by installing iron gates at the entrances to buildings, installing close-circuit cameras, employing more caretakers, improving the lighting system inside and outside the estates, and stepping up police patrols especially at night, so as to improve law and order in the estates?
SECRETARY FOR PLANNING, ENVIRONMENT AND LANDS: Mr President, the question is based on an underlying general assertion, which is not explained, that the state of law and order in public housing estates is deteriorating. I should first of all say that that is not the case and put the matter in the overall crime context.
First, the crime rate in public housing estates is consistently lower than in the territory as a whole. In the first quarter of 1993, it was 12.4 per 10 000 residents, compared to 34.5 for Hong Kong overall. Second, there are no signs of deterioration within housing estates. The crime rate there was 13.5 and 13.8 for the third and fourth quarters respectively last year. So at 12.4 in the first quarter of this year, there is an improvement.
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Needless to say, we have to recognize that, in generalizing and talking in broad terms, we are not seeking to pretend that everything is all right everywhere or that the individual victims of crime have no cause for concern.
Housing Authority rental estates are provided with a caretaker service. Individual rental blocks are not provided with entrance gates or modern security devices like a CCTV system or door-phones. The Authority reviewed the position in public housing estates in late 1992 and agreed a way forward after discussion in committee. Basically it concluded that gates and CCTV should not be provided as a standard provision in existing or new rental blocks on the basis of practical management and cost considerations as well as views expressed by tenants. But it endorsed a pilot scheme in Tsing Yi District to be carried out if the tenants in the block are willing to contribute to the installation and recurrent costs of the equipment and the provision of security guards. Other measures it agreed upon include better illumination, more patrols by Estate Assistants, and closer liaison with the local police on crime prevention in consultation with the Mutual Aid Committees and tenants' associations. The Authority will keep the overall situation and the situation in individual estates under regular review in consultation with the police. And a survey on tenants views will be conducted later this year.
The advice of the police is sought at the design stage of new public housing estates so as to minimize opportunities for crime. Tenants are reminded of the importance of neighbourhood security through briefings and a tenant's handbook. Local crime rates and other current security issues are regularly reviewed at District Fight Crime Committee, Area Committee and Mutual Aid Committee meetings. Where necessary, increased police patrols and other measures can be introduced.
MRS PEGGY LAM (in Cantonese): Mr President, will the Secretary inform this Council of the total number of serious crimes committed in public housing estates in the past two years? What measures does the Administration have to prevent these serious crimes from occurring again or to reduce the number of such cases?
SECRETARY FOR PLANNING, ENVIRONMENT AND LANDS: Mr President, I have some statistics on crimes committed in public housing estates, but I regret to say they are provided on a quarterly basis and they cover a very large number of categories of crime. If I can perhaps quote one or two examples as a matter of illustration and then seek to provide the overall statistics which the Honourable Member asked for in writing. (Annex V) In the first quarter of 1993, the total number of crimes in Housing Authority rental estates was 2 923; in the preceding quarter, the fourth quarter of 1992, it was 3 250; and in the quarter before that, it was 3 196. It is running slightly above and below the 3 000 mark quarterly. As far as the more serious type of crime is concerned, again, let me give one or two examples. Violent crime against the
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person is running and falling between 400 and 300 per quarter; violent crime against property is running and falling between 600 and 500 per quarter; burglary, theft and handling stolen goods is running and falling between 1 500 and 1 300 per quarter. I believe the measures I mentioned in my main reply indicated what is being done to improve the situation, such as improving lighting and seeking to increase patrols by both estate staff and, where necessary, police. There have been one or two other items which I did not mention because of the detail involved. But I would like to give a couple more of examples, if I may, such as the sealing-off of dark corners, or underparts of staircases, which might be used possibly as ambush spots; removing promptly advertisements or threats scribbled on housing estate walls by such people as loansharks, so as to give tenants a greater sense of security; and, again, the provision of space of a reasonable standard for mutual aid committee offices should tenants wish to form them.
MRS ELSIE TU: Mr President, the Secretary's answer is generalized but would he admit that there are some estates, for example in Tuen Mun, where triads and other crimes are more prevalent? Can any special measures, such as those suggested by Mrs LAM, be taken in Tuen Mun and other vulnerable estates?
SECRETARY FOR PLANNING, ENVIRONMENT AND LANDS: Mr President, I was at pains to acknowledge in my reply that generalization does not necessarily present the total picture, and I was also at pains to acknowledge that the position will be different from estate to estate and probably from block to block in various areas. I think as regards what we might perhaps refer to as particular blackspots, it is clearly a matter where the estate management and, if possible, the residents in the form of mutual aid committees or area committees, and also the local police must together consider what additional measures must be taken. I believe that in the case of Tuen Mun, which has been referred to, steps have been taken to do such things as improving lighting and increasing police patrols.
MRS MIRIAM LAU: Mr President, in the answer it is stated that the Housing Authority has concluded that gates and CCTV should not be provided on the basis of practical management and cost considerations as well as views expressed by tenants. Can the Secretary inform this Council of the practical management problems envisaged, what the cost considerations are, and how the views of the tenants have been gauged?
SECRETARY FOR PLANNING, ENVIRONMENT AND LANDS: Mr President, this subject was covered in a study conducted by the Housing Department in the second half of 1992, and it was a matter for discussion in the Housing Authority's Management and Operations Committee late in 1992. At that meeting, members of the Housing Authority — some of them are residents
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of housing estates and are members who have contact with residents of housing estates — were able to express their views on the basis, I believe, of a certain amount of firsthand knowledge. The practical issues which were the subject of both a review and discussion by the Authority members concern the practicalities of installing security gates in older estates where, in fact, the layout of the blocks would require considerable security fencing and numerous security fences; and these are particularly problematical because the indications are that, if there are too many security gates, this is a matter of considerable inconvenience to residents, particularly those on the lower floors, going in and out of estates. And whilst there may be those who feel that security has been improved, there will also be many who believe that access has been very inconveniently impeded.
On the question of cost, a very preliminary assessment of what it would cost to provide security devices in a typical housing estate puts the cost at approximately $60 per flat per month. And it is felt that, in the light of residents' reactions, for example, to adjustments in rental, there would be considerable resistance to meeting this kind of additional cost for the purposes of security.
PRESIDENT: We will have to move on.
Written answers to questions
Standard of the two polytechnics
7. DR SAMUEL WONG asked: Will the Government inform this Council whether the two Polytechnics in Hong Kong have, in terms of academic performance and research achievements, achieved university standard; and if yes, whether there is any plan to change the names of these two institutions so as to properly reflect their university standard?
SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION AND MANPOWER: Mr President, according to the academic judgement of the University and Polytechnic Grants Committee (UPGC), and its adviser, the Hong Kong Council of Academic Accreditation (HKCAA) as appropriate, the standard and quality of courses at various levels provided by the two Polytechnics in Hong Kong are comparable with those at equivalent levels provided at the other UPGC-funded institutions, including the Universities, and compare favourably with internationally recognized standards for such courses.
As regards research, both the Polytechnics have introduced post-graduate education and research degree programmes relatively recently and offer research programmes in some subject areas only. They have also historically been provided with a lower level of resources for research than the
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Universities. Their academic staff have, however, been reasonably successful in winning research grants from the Research Grants Council and other sources of peer-reviewed research funding and have achieved a creditable publication record. The Polytechnics are also very active in the fields of applied and contract research.
In early 1991, the two Polytechnics (and the Hong Kong Baptist College) separately notified the UPGC of their intention to apply for institutional accreditation (or self accreditation) status. This relates to the capability of an institution to validate and revalidate the degree courses it provides without involving an external accrediting agency. The question of university status and title was also raised, but the UPGC's view was that this issue should be considered further only after the three institutions had demonstrated their capability for self-accreditation and accepted the continuing need for a differentiation of roles among the UPGC-funded institutions in Hong Kong.
In January 1993, the UPGC appointed a panel to conduct institutional reviews of the two Polytechnics (and the Hong Kong Baptist College) to ascertain whether they had developed sound internal accrediting mechanisms and processes, and to consider whether they were ready for self-accreditation. The panel's report was considered by the UPGC at its meeting in April. The UPGC will shortly report to the Secretary for Education and Manpower on the outcome of the exercise and the Committee's recommendations regarding the readiness of three institutions for self-accreditation and the further action to be taken on the question of university status and title for these institutions.
Blockage of drain inlets
8. MRS PEGGY LAM asked (in Chinese): In view of the increasing occurrence of flooding due to rainstorms in Hong Kong, and the Administration's indication that these floods were generally caused by the blocking of drain inlets by mud and refuse, will the Government inform this Council:
(a) of the measures taken to prevent the blockage of inlets of drains, and
(b) whether arrangements would be promptly made for deployment of staff to clear the inlets of drains as soon as rainstorms break out, so as to prevent the occurrence of flooding?
SECRETARY FOR WORKS: Mr President,
(a) Daily sweeping of streets by Urban Services Department (USD) and Regional Services Department (RSD) helps to prevent blockage of inlets to underground drains. For areas which are considered to be
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litter blackspots, the frequency of sweeping will be increased. Refuse in water courses discharging to the drainage system is also cleared regularly.
Regular road inspections are carried out by Highway Department (HyD). Blocked roadside gratings and gullies identified are cleared by HyD on expressways and by USD/RSD on other public roads.
If required, additional roadside gullies will be provided at locations vulnerable to flooding due to frequent blockage of drains inlets by refuse.
(b) Upon approach of rainy season HyD mobilizes its term contractors to clear identified blockage of drain inlets in order to prevent occurrence of flooding.
During rainstorms, USD/RSD mobilize their staff to patrol areas particularly prone to flooding. Drainage Services Department (DSD) has sewer gangs and term contractors specially geared up to handle flooding incidents. HyD renders assistance to clear blocked drain inlets as and when required and sends its staff to inspect the surface conditions of roads to report on any identified flooding spots for immediate and follow-up actions by DSD and HyD as appropriate.
Shortage of secondary school places in Tai Po and North District
9. REV FUNG CHI-WOOD asked (in Chinese): Due to serious shortage of secondary school places in Tai Po and North District, many secondary school students living in these two districts have to attend school in other districts. Will the Government inform this Council of the position in 1993-94 with regard to the following:
(a) whether there will be any improvement to the number of secondary school places available in these two districts when compared with the position in 1992-93; and
(b) how many Form I students and secondary school students in other forms who live in these two districts would be required to attend school in other districts?
SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION AND MANPOWER: Mr President, the answers to Rev FUNG's questions are as follows -
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(a) Yes. Compared to 1992-93, the number of secondary school places has increased by 1 320 in Tai Po and 3 000 in North District in 1993-94.
(b) Based on forecast data from the Secondary School Places Allocation system, the number of Form I students to be allocated to schools outside their own district in the 1993-94 school year will be 100 for Tai Po and none for North District. It is not possible to predict the numbers of secondary school students in other forms who will be attending school outside their own district in 1993-94.
CFC refrigerants and halon fire fighting installations
10. MR PETER WONG asked: Will the Administration inform this Council of the progress in phasing out the use of chlorofluorocarbon (CFC) refrigerants and halon in fire fighting equipment installed in government offices and subvented organizations?
SECRETARY FOR PLANNING, ENVIRONMENT AND LANDS: Mr President, to meet the accelerated programme agreed by parties to the Montreal Protocol in Copenhagen in November 1992, which requires that halons will be completely phased out by 1994 and CFCs by 1996, government departments and subvented organizations have taken the following measures:
CFC refrigerants
CFC refrigerants will not be used in any new air conditioning and refrigeration equipment and systems in government and subvented projects. Existing equipment and systems will be retrofitted using substitute refrigerants such as HCFC (R22 and R123) and HFC (R134a), or replaced by those using zero ozone depleting refrigerants in a five year programme costing about an estimated $310 million. The programme covers all equipment and systems maintained by the Electrical and Mechanical Services Department in government, municipal councils, Hospital Authority and subvented organization buildings, including the Hong Kong University, the Prince Philip Dental Hospital and the Red Cross Blood Transfusion Centre.
In the financial year 1993-94, $5.4 million will be spent on the installation of high efficiency purges and refrigerant recovery and recycling units to stop the venting of CFCs to the atmosphere from 51 systems in the buildings referred to above. These measures include the conversion of a machine to use R123 refrigerant at Queen Mary Hospital and another to use R134a refrigerant at the Prince of Wales Hospital.
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 26 May 1993 3709 Halon fire fighting installations
Under the Montreal Protocol, only "essential installations" are allowed to continue using halons. As yet there is no agreed definition of "essential installation" and no certified safe direct substitute to replace halons used for fire fighting installations. However, the use of halon-based fire protection systems in new projects maintained by the Electrical and Mechanical Services Department has stopped. The Department has also surveyed all existing halon fire fighting installations under government maintenance. Pending the availability of safe substitutes and a clear definition of "essential installation", a replacement programme similar to the one for CFCs will be prepared in conjunction with the Environmental Protection and Fire Services Departments.
The procurement of halon-based protable extinguishers for government buildings has stopped and they will be replaced with environmentally friendly extinguishing agents when existing equipment reaches the end of its serviceable life.
Dredging projects off Tung Lung Chau
11. MR ALLEN LEE asked (in Chinese): Catcher fishermen affected by dredging projects off Tung Lung Chau have recently learnt that the Government has amended the original method of calculating compensation from using one year's catches to three years' catches as the basis. Will the Government inform this Council:
(a) of the criteria by which the new calculation method is determined;
(b) whether consideration will be given to compensating fish culturists affected by the same project, and whether the method of calculating their compensation will be the same as that applicable to catcher fishermen; if not, what principles are adopted in determining the calculation methods; and
(c) whether consideration will be given to strengthening the communication and co-ordination among the relevant government departments, so that the fish catches in fish culture zones will not be affected as a result of the improper siting of dredging projects?
SECRETARY FOR ECONOMIC SERVICES: Mr President, the revised basis for calculating the amount of ex gratia compensation payable to capture fishermen affected by dredging projects was determined taking into account the extent and duration of the disruption to inshore fishing activities caused by the current programme of dredging works, the effect on the livelihood of inshore fishermen, the likelihood that the affected fishing grounds would take some time
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 26 May 1993 3710
to recover when works have been completed and the decreasing opportunities for continuing work in fishing and fishing-related industries.
The Administration is reviewing the ex gratia allowances payable to mariculturists to see if changes are required to cover possible disturbance arising from dredging projects. It is unlikely however that the method of calculating ex gratia allowance payable to mariculturists will be brought into line with that applicable to inshore fishermen. If any mariculturists are affected by the works, they will be affected by an individual project in the vicinity of the fish culture zone in which they are licensed to operate. Even if business has to be suspended during the period of time dredging goes on nearby, the mariculturists will be able to resume operations once works in the vicinity have ceased.
The Government's intention is to ensure that dredging projects cause as little disruption as possible to the mariculture industry. Arrangements are in place for the Civil Engineering Department to inform the Agriculture and Fisheries Department well in advance of any proposed works which might affect the mariculture industry. The Agriculture and Fisheries Department, in turn, has well-established channels of communication with the mariculture industry, the most important of which is the Aquaculture Subcommittee of the Advisory Committee on Agriculture and Fisheries. These co-ordination and communication arrangements are working satisfactorily.
Medical and health resources allocation
12. MISS EMILY LAU asked: Will the Government inform this Council what measures are being taken to eradicate the existing disparities in the allocation of medical and health resources and to ensure that such resources are adequately provided to newly opened and planned hospitals and clinics in the New Territories, and whether it has any plan to formulate and publish in collaboration with the Hospital Authority a Five-year Resource Allocation Plan showing how medical and health resources are distributed?
SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE: Mr President, the provision of new hospitals and clinics must take into account various inter-related factors such as population growth, community demands, distribution of existing medical facilities and interface with other projects in the pipeline.
In recognition of prevailing demands and population movement, progressively more resources have been allocated for medical facilities in the New Territories. To illustrate this point, a total of 1 485 hospital beds, three specialist clinics and six general clinics were commissioned in the New Territories over the last five years compared with a net decrease of 260 hospital beds and the addition of one general clinic in the urban area during the same period. Furthermore, around 2 500 hospital beds, three specialist
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 26 May 1993 3711
clinics and six general clinics in the New Territories will be coming on stream between 1993-94 and 1997-98.
The recurrent consequences of capital projects are taken into account in the annual resource allocation exercise. This ensures that adequate provision of resources will be given to the Hospital Authority and the Department of Health to commission new hospitals and clinics in accordance with operational requirements.
There is no plan to publish a Five-year Resource Allocation Plan for the Hospital Authority. However, the Authority is required to compile a Corporate Plan setting out its strategic targets, the plan to achieve these targets, an assessment of the resource implications as well as a projection of revenue and expenditure. The Corporate Plan will cover a period of at least five years and will be rolled forward every year. This Plan is under preparation and should be completed before end of 1993.
AIDS Foundation
13. DR LEONG CHE-HUNG asked: In view of recent reports of the loss incurred by the AIDS Foundation in the investment of its funds, will the Administration inform this Council of:
(a) the rationale for granting $15 million to the AIDS Foundation in 1991 but restricting the Foundation to use only the income generated from the investment of the grant;
(b) the Government mechanism, if any, for monitoring how the Foundation, or other subvented organizations of similar nature, uses and manages funds received from government grants or public donations;
(c) the assistance, if any, provided by the Government to these organizations in the management of their financial resources; and
(d) the progress of its investigation into the above incident?
SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE: Mr President,
(a) As stated in paragraph 5 of Finance Committee Paper FCR (91-92)27, the AIDS Foundation is responsible for raising its own finance. The $15 million was a one-off seeding grant to show Government's support for the activities of the AIDS Foundation which should complement the Government's AIDS prevention programme.
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 26 May 1993 3712
(b) The Government uses a combination of measures to control and monitor the use of funds provided to a subvented organization. They include:
(i) the establishment of rules and procedures governing the use, management and investment of funds;
(ii) the examination of periodic financial reports and the annual audited accounts of the organization;
(iii) the ad hoc inspection of records and accounts by staff of the responsible government department and the Audit Department; and
(iv) the appointment of public officers as members or observers of the management board or executive committee.
The extent of the monitoring and control varies from organization to organization depending on the size of the subvention.
As regards the Hong Kong AIDS Foundation, the Government laid down guidelines on the investment of the grant of $15 million. Paragraph 5 of Finance Committee Paper FCR (91-92)27, for example, stated that investments should be in short-term fixed deposits, bonds, loan stocks and certificates of deposit.
The Government does not monitor the use of donations by subvented organizations under certain circumstances. However, a subvented organization must seek the Government's agreement before it can accept a donation, for example when additional recurrent subvention would be required as a result. The expenditure of donations would be subject to the same overall accounting control within the subvented organization as other expenditure.
(c) The Government provides assistance on request to subvented organizations in their financial management. Where necessary, these organizations may seek funds from the Government to obtain external consultancy services to help them manage resources or secure better value for money. In addition, the Government may make suggestions for improvement in the examination of their financial reports.
(d) The Government has initiated an investigation into the facts of matter and is examining the report from the AIDS Foundation.
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 26 May 1993 3713 Commonwealth Law Conference
14. MRS ELSIE TU asked: Will the Government inform this Council:
(a) of the number of members of the Judiciary who attended the Commonwealth Law Conference held in Cyprus earlier this month;
(b) of the purpose and the respective length of their attendance; and
(c) how their attendance at the Conference affected the work of the Judiciary, for example, how many hearings had to be adjourned, and cases deferred?
CHIEF SECRETARY: Mr President,
(a) Six members of the Judiciary of different levels attended the 10th Commonwealth Law Conference held in Cyprus earlier this month.
(b) The Commonwealth Law Conference is a regular triennial meeting of Commonwealth judges, lawyers and law teachers. It gives participants an opportunity to meet and exchange ideas and experiences, and to keep abreast with legal and judicial developments in the Commonwealth. It is for this purpose that members of the Hong Kong Judiciary attended the Conference, which lasted from 3 to 7 May 1993. All participants attended for the whole period of the Conference.
(c) With forward planning, it was generally possible to avoid adjournment or deferment of hearings during the absence of these judicial officers. One case was however affected. It was a trial which started in early March and had overrun its estimated duration. The trial had to be suspended for a week in the Judge's absence.
Hospital Services Department
15. MR MICHAEL HO asked (in Chinese): With more Hospital Services Department staff transferring to the Hospital Authority, will the Government inform this Council whether it plans to disband the Department; if so,
(a) what are the factors the Government will consider in determining the disbandment date;
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 26 May 1993 3714
(b) what arrangements will be made for those civil servants who are not willing to transfer; and
(c) when the civil servant's organizations concerned will be consulted?
SECRETARY FOR THE CIVIL SERVICE: Mr President,
(a) There is at present no plan to disband the Hospital Services Department.
(b) When the Hospital Authority took over the management of the public hospital system in 1991, the 21 793 departmental grade staff, for example, medical officers, nurses, paramedics, working in the Hospital Services Department were given until the end of November 1994 to decide to transfer to the employment of the Authority or remain as civil servants.
The Hospital Services Department was reorganized to exercise personnel management responsibilities for the civil servants working in the Authority. It will continue to look after the interests of those civil servants who choose not to transfer to the employment of the Authority after November 1994. These officers will remain working in the Authority on civil service terms of employment until they leave the service through natural wastage.
(c) As at 1 April 1993, there were still 12 260 civil servants working in the Authority. The establishment of the Hospital Services Department will be reviewed regularly having regard to the declining number of civil servants remaining with the Authority.
Qualified English teachers
16. MR TIMOTHY HA asked (in Chinese): The findings of a survey conducted among teachers by the Education Department in 1991 indicated that less than 20% of the English Language teachers in secondary schools were university graduates in either English Language or English Literature. The percentage of these teachers who had also received educational training was lower than 15%. Will the Government inform this Council:
(a) whether the percentage of suitably qualified teachers of English has now been improved; and
(b) what specific measures the Government has in hand to recruit, train and retain staff specialized in the teaching of English?
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 26 May 1993 3715
SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION AND MANPOWER: Mr President, the answers to Mr HA's questions are as follows:
(a) According to the Teacher Survey conducted by the Education Department (ED) in 1991, the percentage of English Language teachers in secondary schools who were university graduates in either English Language or English Literature was 30%. The percentage of those who had also received professional training in education was 22%. In the current school year, these percentages have improved to 33% and 24% respectively.
(b) (i) As regards specific measures to recruit staff specialized in the teaching of English, schools give preference to graduates from the colleges of Education and universities who have majored in English. In addition, secondary schools can also, if they wish, recruit expatriate English language teachers who are university graduates with English language teaching qualifications. Schools can recruit up to three such teachers locally under the Codes of Aid, or up to two such teachers under the Expatriate English Language Teacher Scheme.
(ii) As regards training, the Government has introduced a number of measures specifically to upgrade the teaching of English as a subject. For pre-service College of Education graduates majoring in English, the Government provides, on a joint-funding basis with the British Council, a six-week immersion English course in the United Kingdom. For in-service training, the Institute of Language in Education (ILE) provides a 16-week full-time refresher course for both graduate and non-graduate secondary teachers of English, which is followed by a four-week immersion English course in the United Kingdom. To ensure that sufficient support is given to these teachers when they return to school, the ILE provides 12-week refresher courses for secondary school panel chairpersons of English, which include a four-week United Kingdom immersion course element. In addition, the Advisory Inspectorate of the ED runs seminars and other short courses on subject content and methodology for serving and newly recruited teachers of English.
(iii) As far as retention is concerned, the Government is committed to improving the teaching environment in schools and enhancing the professional careers of teachers so as to make teaching a more rewarding and respected profession. The Education Commission's Report No. 5 contained important recommendations in this regard, which the Government has accepted and has begun implementing. In addition, a housing assistance scheme for aided teachers has recently been
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 26 May 1993 3716
announced for implementation in September. These measures should help encourage teachers to stay in the profession.
Illegal sale of soft drugs
17. MR CHEUNG MAN-KWONG asked (in Chinese): In view of the worsening problem of soft drug addiction among young persons and the availability of soft drugs for sale in stores and clinics, will the Government inform this Council:
(a) of the respective numbers of enforcement action and prosecutions taken in the past three years by the Administration against illegal sale of soft drugs to young persons, and the geographical distribution of these drug stores and clinics;
(b) among the above prosecution cases, how many registered medical and nursing personnel were involved and penalized, and what their sentences were;
(c) how many young persons aged 25 or below were hospitalized or died as a result of soft drug addiction over the past three years; and
(d) what measures, such as introducing legislative amendments and imposing more severe punishment, will be taken to curb further spreading of illegal sale of soft drugs in stores and clinics?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr President,
(a) Regular inspections are conducted by Department of Health officials at medicine dealers and registered clinics. In 1990, 6 292 inspections were made; the corresponding numbers for 1991 and 1992 were 6 271 and 5 624. Test purchases are also made to ascertain if the medicine dealers and registered clinics are contravening the law. In the past three years, the number of test purchases made were 489, 105 and 431 respectively.
Arising from the inspections and test purchases, 22 prosecutions were made in 1990, 17 in 1991 and five in 1992. The geographical distribution of the medicine dealers and registered clinics concerned is set out at the Annex.
(b) Among the 44 prosecutions brought in the past three years, four involved medical personnel; three medical practitioners were prosecuted in 1991 and fined $7,000, $15,000 and $30,000 respectively; and one medical practitioner was prosecuted in 1992 and fined $2,000. These cases were referred to the Medical
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 26 May 1993 3717
Council for disciplinary actions. Two cases are still under enquiry. In the third case, the medical practitioner was removed from the medical register for three months, suspended for one year. As for the fourth case, the medical practitioner was removed from the medical register for six months on account of other offences, and he has not applied for re-registration.
(c) In the past three years, the numbers of youngsters aged 25 or below seen in the Accident and Emergency Departments of the major regional hospitals suffering from psychotropic substance abuse have been:
Psychotropic Substances involved
1990 1991 1992
Stimulants 1 1 - Depressants 10 1 3 Tranquillizers 41 24 21 Hallucinogens 10 - 2 --- --- --- Total 62 26 26
Six death cases involving fatal dosages of psychotropic substances were identified in the past three years, but no breakdown by age is available for the cases concerned. The details are set out below.
Period No. and type of fatal dosages detected
1990 2 Tranquillizers
1991 2 Tranquillizers
1992 1 Depressant
1 Tranquillizer
(d) The illegal sale of drugs is kept under constant review by the Action Committee Against Narcotics, which recommends to the Administration appropriate actions, including legislative controls or more severe penalties when circumstances so justify. On the advice of the Action Committee, 32 drugs of the Benzodiazepine group, available on the market and found liable to abuse, have been controlled as dangerous drugs since 18 January 1992. The legislative controls require that these drugs can only be supplied by registered medical practitioners for the purpose of genuine medical treatment, or by pharmacists on a prescription given by a registered medical practitioner. In response to increasing reports about the abuse of Cough Medicine, stricter controls on the sale of this medicine, containing more than 0.1% of Codeine or
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 26 May 1993 3718
Dextromethorphan, were recommended by the Committee, and have been introduced under the Pharmacy and Poisons Regulations since 1 January 1993.
Enforcement action has also been stepped up to deter the illegal supply and to discourage the misuse of psychotropic substances. The Department of Health plans to step up routine inspections of all drug retail premises to at least twice a year.
Annex
Geographical Distribution of Prosecutions
Against Illegal Sale of Psychotropic Substances
1990 1991 1992
Hong Kong - Central and Western 1 0 0 Eastern 1 3 0
Southern 0 1 0
Wan Chai 3 0 0
Kowloon - Kowloon City 2 0 0 Kwun Tong 2 2 1
Mong Kok 3 1 0
Sham Shui Po 1 1 1
Wong Tai Sin 3 2 0
Yau Tsim 1 0 0
New Territories - Kwai Tsing 0 0 0 North 2 1 1
Sai Kung 0 0 0
Sha Tin 1 0 0
Tai Po 2 1 1
Tsuen Wan 0 3 0
Tuen Mun 0 2 0
Yuen Long 0 0 1
Total 22 17 5
Source: Department of Health
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 26 May 1993 3719 Misuse of Hong Kong textiles quotas
18. MR JIMMY McGREGOR asked: Will the Government inform this Council of:
(a) the measures that have been or will be taken to prevent the misuse of Hong Kong textiles quotas for the export of textile products made in China; and
(b) the respective numbers of investigations into and prosecutions initiated against such malpractice over the last three years and the results of these prosecutions?
SECRETARY FOR TRADE AND INDUSTRY: Mr President, the Hong Kong Government abides fully by its obligations under multilateral and bilateral agreements on the export of textiles products, including the requirement that only goods of Hong Kong origin can be exported under Hong Kong export quotas.
The Hong Kong Government operates a comprehensive textiles export control system, which requires licensing of all textiles exports to our restrained markets. In addition textile exports to the United States and European Community, our major markets, have to be accompanied by certificates of origin. Both the licensing and the certificate of origin systems are strictly enforced by both the Trade Department and the Customs & Excise Department. The law provides for penalties of fines and/or imprisonment for offenders convicted of abuses to the control system. The Trade Department also requires the offenders to surrender the misused quota.
In addition to stepping up enforcement work, such as conducting blitz checks at the border and other entry points in addition to regular checks, the reward scheme originally intended to encourage members of the public to provide information on textiles fraud has been extended to cover the illegal transshipment of textiles.
The number of investigations into and prosecutions against textile origin fraud over the last three years are as follows:
1993
Jan-Mar
(a) Investigation
1990 1991 1992
No of cases 626 685 639 125
Value of goods involved
$209m $202m $245m $53m
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 26 May 1993 3720
1990 1991 1992
(b) Prosecution
1993
Jan-Mar
No of companies and individuals prosecuted
763 839 940 211
Court fines $28m $29m $37m $10m
Imprisonment (Suspended)
2
(7 months)
3
(9 months)
3
(9 months)
- -
(Immediate) - - 1
-
(3 months)
Vacant government office premises
19. MR HENRY TANG asked: Will the Government inform this Council:
(a) how many of the 785 676 sq m of office premises owned by the Government have been left vacant for one year or more; what the reasons are for these premises being left vacant; what the location is and what the size of each of these vacant premises is; and
(b) what plans the Government has in hand to make use of each of these vacant premises?
SECRETARY FOR THE TREASURY: Mr President,
(a) Of the Government's current total holding of 785 676 sq m of general office accommodation, only 240 sq m (or 0.03%) has been vacant for more than one year. The accommodation has not been allocated because it is surplus to immediate requirements. 160 sq m is located at the recently completed North District Government Offices in Fanling and 80 sq m is located at the Mui Wo Government Offices.
(b) The 240 sq m of general office accommodation currently vacant will be allocated for departmental use as and when suitable users have been identified, and subject to the vetting of requirements by the Government Property Agency.
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 26 May 1993 3721 Briefing out of High Court cases to private barristers
20. MRS ELSIE TU asked: Will the Administration inform this Council:
(a) of the criteria adopted by the Legal Aid Department in assigning High Court cases, including appeal cases from Magistrate's Courts, to barristers in private practice;
(b) of the total number of High Court cases briefed out by the Legal Aid Department in the past year, the respective numbers assigned to local and expatriate counsel; and
(c) whether the Legal Aid Department keeps a briefing list of barristers; if so, the total number on the list and how many of them are expatriates and former government legal officers respectively?
CHIEF SECRETARY: Mr President,
(a) In assigning cases to outside counsel, the Director of Legal Aid (DLA) adheres to the overriding principle that the interests of the legally aided client must come first and that the client is best represented legally. That said, the DLA assigns cases as widely as possible among counsel of suitable expertise, having regard to the nature and complexity of the cases and the availability of the counsel. To ensure the operation of an equitable system, the Department has set up a committee, co-opting a representative of the Corruption Prevention Department of the Independent Commission Against Corruption, to monitor the assignment of cases.
(b) The Department does not make a distinction between "expatriate counsel" and "local counsel", whatever the definition, in the assignment of cases to outside counsel.
(c) The DLA is required by law to maintain a panel of counsel enrolled on the roll of barristers who are willing to investigate, report and give an opinion upon applications for the grant of legal aid and to act for aided persons. There are at present 471 barristers on the Director's panel. For the reasons explained in (b) above, there is no distinction between expatriate and local barristers for the assignment of cases. The panel includes three former counsel of the Legal Aid Department, 75 former counsel of the Attorney General's Chambers and 16 former Magistrates.
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 26 May 1993 3722 Motion
CRIMINAL PROCEDURE ORDINANCE
THE SECRETARY FOR SECURITY moved the following motion:
"That the Legal Aid in Criminal Cases (Amendment) Rules 1993, made by the Chief Justice on 23 April 1993, be approved."
He said: Mr President, I move the motion standing in my name on the Order Paper.
Section 9(A) of the Criminal Procedure Ordinance provides that the Chief Justice may, with the approval of the Legislative Council, make rules providing for the granting of legal aid in criminal cases to persons of limited means.
Following the enactment of the Crimes (Amendment) (No. 3) Bill 1992 on 21 April 1993 which abolished capital punishment, the Chief Justice has made a number of consequential amendments to the Legal Aid in Criminal Cases Rules. The purpose of these amendments is to remove all references in the rules to capital charge and to substitute it, where appropriate, with a charge of murder, treason or piracy with violence. Legal aid will continue to be made available to persons of limited means charged with these offences.
Mr President, I beg to move.
Question on the motion proposed, put and agreed to.
First Reading of Bills
ROAD TUNNELS (GOVERNMENT) (AMENDMENT) BILL 1993
CROSS-HARBOUR TUNNEL (PASSAGE TAX) (AMENDMENT) (NO. 2) BILL 1993
CROSS-HARBOUR TUNNEL (AMENDMENT) BILL 1993
EASTERN HARBOUR CROSSING (AMENDMENT) BILL 1993 TATE'S CAIRN TUNNEL (AMENDMENT) BILL 1993
EMPLOYEES' COMPENSATION (AMENDMENT) BILL 1993
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 26 May 1993 3723 HONG KONG SPORTS DEVELOPMENT BOARD (AMENDMENT) BILL 1993
Bills read the First time and ordered to be set down for Second Reading pursuant to Standing Order 41(3).
Second Reading of Bills
PRESIDENT: Secretary for Transport, you have five Bills in a series. You might just wish to go straight through from one to the next.
SECRETARY FOR TRANSPORT: Thank you, Mr President.
ROAD TUNNELS (GOVERNMENT) (AMENDMENT) BILL 1993
THE SECRETARY FOR TRANSPORT moved the Second Reading of: "A Bill to amend the Road Tunnels (Government) Ordinance."
He said: Mr President, I move that the Road Tunnels (Government) (Amendment) Bill 1993 be read the Second time.
This is the first of five Bills to be introduced today which provide for automatic toll collection at government and private road tunnels.
The use of automatic toll collection, which is known as autotoll, will increase efficiency and reduce tunnel operating costs.
Under the autotoll arrangement, a motorist first opens an account with the tunnel management company. He is then issued with an electronic tag for mounting on the vehicle windscreen. A vehicle fitted with a valid tag can pass through an autotoll lane without stopping and the motorist's account is automatically debited with the appropriate toll. Motorists will of course have the choice of continuing to pay tolls in cash or by pre-paid ticket.
A camera will be installed in each autotoll lane to record the licence number of any vehicle passing through the toll booths with an invalid tag, no tag, or insufficient balance in the account.
Clause 3 of the Bill enables the Governor in Council to make regulations for the payment of tolls at government tunnels by any method, including autotoll, and for the installation and regulation of autotoll facilities. Clause 2 provides for the production of certificates of testing for autotoll equipment and
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 26 May 1993 3724
for certificates of photographic processing, for use as evidence to prove evasion of toll payment.
Bill referred to the House Committee pursuant to Standing Order 42(3A).
CROSS-HARBOUR TUNNEL (PASSAGE TAX) (AMENDMENT) (NO. 2) BILL 1993
THE SECRETARY FOR TRANSPORT moved the Second Reading of: "A Bill to amend the Cross-Habour Tunnel (Passage Tax) Ordinance."
He said: I move that the Cross-Harbour Tunnel (Passage Tax) (Amendment) (No. 2) Bill be read the Second time.
Clause 4 of this Bill enables passage tax to be collected by autotoll. Clause 3 provides that where the amount debited from an autotoll account is insufficient to cover both passage tax and the toll, then the amount shall be used first to pay the tax and any amount remaining shall be credited towards payment of the toll. Clause 5 imposes a duty on the Cross-Harbour Tunnel Company Limited to report to the Commissioner for Transport the number of passages for which the tax has been paid by means of autotoll.
Bill referred to the House Committee pursuant to Standing Order 42(3A).
CROSS-HARBOUR TUNNEL (AMENDMENT) BILL 1993
THE SECRETARY FOR TRANSPORT moved the Second Reading of: "A Bill to amend the Cross-Harbour Tunnel Ordinance."
He said: Mr President, I move that the Cross-Harbour Tunnel (Amendment) Bill 1993 be read the Second time. The Bill provides for the introduction of automatic toll collection facilities at the Cross Harbour Tunnel.
The opportunity is taken to raise from $1,000 to $2,000 the maximum penalty for contravening Cross-Harbour Tunnel by-laws, bringing it into line with corresponding penalties in the Eastern Harbour Crossing Ordinance and the Tate's Cairn Tunnel Ordinance.
Bill referred to the House Committee pursuant to Standing Order 42(3A).
EASTERN HARBOUR CROSSING (AMENDMENT) BILL 1993
THE SECRETARY FOR TRANSPORT moved the Second Reading of: "A Bill to amend the Eastern Harbour Crossing Ordinance."
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 26 May 1993 3725
He said: Mr President, I move that the Eastern Harbour Crossing (Amendment) Bill 1993 be read the Second time.
This Bill empowers the New Hong Kong Tunnel Company Limited to make by-laws for the regulation of automatic toll collection facilities at the Eastern Harbour Crossing.
Bill referred to the House Committee pursuant to Standing Order 42(3A).
TATE'S CAIRN TUNNEL (AMENDMENT) BILL 1993
THE SECRETARY FOR TRANSPORT moved the Second Reading of: "A Bill to amend the Tate's Cairn Tunnel Ordinance."
He said: Mr President, finally, I move that the Tate's Cairn Tunnel (Amendment) Bill be read the Second time.
This Bill empowers the Tate's Cairn Tunnel Company Limited to make by-laws for the regulation of automatic toll collection facilities at the Tate's Cairn Tunnel.
Bill referred to the House Committee pursuant to Standing Order 42(3A).
EMPLOYEES' COMPENSATION (AMENDMENT) BILL 1993
THE SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION AND MANPOWER moved the Second Reading of: "A Bill to amend the Employees' Compensation Ordinance."
He said: Mr President, I move the Second Reading of the Employees' Compensation (Amendment) Bill 1993.
The Bill seeks to improve the provisions in the Employees Compensation Ordinance relating to the maximum level of compensation and the assessment of permanent incapacity, and also to streamline certain procedures.
At present, compensation for death or permanent incapacity is calculated by reference to the age and monthly earnings of the employee concerned. The amount of compensation payable is subject to a statutory maximum, which is $620,000 in the case of permanent total incapacity and $542,000 in the case of death.
A recent analysis revealed that, in 46.7% of permanent incapacity cases, the compensation entitlement had been suppressed by the operation of the statutory maximum. This was particularly serious for the younger employees because of the age factor.
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 26 May 1993 3726
In order to improve the compensation for injured employees and yet retain the spirit of limiting employers' liability in a no-fault compensation system, we propose to remove the statutory maximum amount of compensation and introduce instead a monthly earnings ceiling for the purpose of calculating compensation. Initially, the ceiling is proposed to be set at $15,000. This level is in line with that used for calculating severance payment and long service payment under the Employment Ordinance. Under this proposal, the maximum level of compensation would be $1.44 million for permanent total incapacity and $1.26 million for death. As only 6.6% of the employees entitled to compensation in 1992 earned more than $15,000 a month, the proposal would enable the great majority of injured employees to receive their full entitlement.
In line with our established practice of revising the levels of compensation every two years, we intend to bring the proposal into effect on 1 January 1994. This should allow sufficient lead time for the insurance industry to make the necessary arrangements.
As regards the assessment of permanent incapacity, the permanent loss of earning capacity suffered by an employee injured at work is currently assessed in accordance with the First Schedule of the Employees' Compensation Ordinance. This Schedule was last revised in 1985. It is now necessary to update it so as to keep abreast with the standards adopted in our neighbouring countries.
We propose to improve the First Schedule in three respects:
- first, by increasing the percentages of loss of earning capacity specified for some injuries;
- secondly, by expanding the coverage to include more injuries; and
- thirdly, by providing a higher percentage of loss of earning capacity for injury to the preferred hand and for injuries involving the loss of two or more fingers.
Part IV of the Employees' Compensation Ordinance requires all employers to take out insruance against their full liabilities under the Ordinance and at common law. It also provides that an injured employee may claim compensation directly against his employer's insurer. However, the present provisions are not clear as to whether or not an injured employee could take proceedings against the insurer without first suing his employer. We propose to make it clear that the employee has such a right under certain circumstances. Amendments are also proposed to clarify an insurer's liability under a policy of employees' compensation insurance.
Finally, the Bill provides for the Commissioner for Labour, instead of the Governor in Council, to amend the Second Schedule of the Employees' Compensation Ordinance which specifies the list of compensable occupational
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 26 May 1993 3727
diseases, and to make regulations relating to operational matters which are technical in nature. This is aimed at simplifying procedures and ensuring a quicker response to changing needs.
Bill referred to the House Committee pursuant to Standing Order 42(3A).
HONG KONG SPORTS DEVELOPMENT BOARD (AMENDMENT) BILL 1993
THE SECRETARY FOR RECREATION AND CULTURE moved the Second Reading of: "A Bill to amend the Hong Kong Sports Development Board Ordinance."
He said: Mr President, I move the Second Reading of the Hong Kong Sports Development Board (Amendment) Bill 1993.
The Hong Kong Sports Development Board (SDB) and the Hong Kong Sports Institute (HKSI) are two separate and distinct statutory bodies responsible for the promotion and development of sports in Hong Kong. This has created some problems of operation and co-ordination. Having looked at the functions, powers and organization of these two bodies in close consultation with them, the Government considered that it would be in the wider interest of sports promotion and development in Hong Kong to streamline the two organizations and integrate their management structures.
The Hong Kong Sports Development Board (Amendment) Bill 1993 aims to achieve this by repealing the Hong Kong Sports Institute Ordinance and amending the Hong Kong Sports Development Board Ordinance to create a single statutory body with overall responsibility for the promotion and development of sports in Hong Kong and for resource allocation. The Bill will expand the scope and powers of the SDB so as to enable it to take on the existing functions of the HKSI Board, but allowing the latter to retain a separate image and identity. These objectives are mainly achieved through the provisions in clauses 2, 4, 5, 6 and 7 of the Bill.
With the creation of a unified Board, a centralized approach can then be adopted to remove overlapping in certain functions. These are in areas such as finance and administration, personnel management, purchasing, marketing and public relations. Clear lines of reporting and accountability will be established for the unified body and will help to achieve better value for money.
The HKSI's separate image and identity will, however, be recognized by requiring the SDB to establish a separate Management Committee for the management and control of the Institute. This is provided for in the new section 5B in clause 7 of the Bill. The Chairman of the HKSI Management Committee will have to be a member of the SDB, although his appointment will be made separately by the Governor as stipulated in clause 4 of the Bill. This provision
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will help to ensure that the HKSI is independently managed by the Management Committee within the broad policy parameters set out by the SDB. The prime function of the HKSI, as specified in the new section 5A in clause 7, will be to train and develop elite athletes. The powers of the HKSI Management Committee are provided for under the new sections 5D, 5E & 5F of clause 7 of the Bill, which also stipulate that in exercise of these powers, the Management Committee will be subject to the overall direction of the SDB.
The HKSI will continue to be funded by its existing Trust Fund, although the Committee of Trustees will henceforth be appointed by the SDB, who may give direction to the Trustees.
I believe the Hong Kong Sports Development Board (Amendment) Bill 1993 will pave the way for the better promotion and development of sports in Hong Kong. It refocuses the SDB as the single overall body responsible for the promotion and development of sports, and provides a new structure for the management of the HKSI and the training and development of elite athletes in Hong Kong. I would like to state that the integration of the SDB and the HKSI under one organizational structure will in no way affect the existing role played by the Amateur Sports Federation and Olympic Committee and the national sports associations. Indeed, it should help to facilitate their efforts in promoting the representation and participation of sports by Hong Kong teams in regional and international competitions.
Mr President, I beg to move.
Bill referred to the House Committee pursuant to Standing Order 42(3A).
BOUNDARY AND ELECTION COMMISSION BILL
Resumption of debate on Second Reading which was moved on
10 February 1993
Question on Second Reading proposed.
DR YEUNG SUM (in Cantonese): Mr President, for many of us who have been pressing for an independent and politically neutral body to undertake responsibilities for demarcation of boundaries and organization of election matters, the Bill before us is a welcomed piece of legislation. The proposed establishment of a Boundary and Election Commission will go a long way in ensuring impartiality of the electoral process and a fair basis for competition for all candidates.
In examining the Bill, the Bills Committee has made a number of suggestions, many of them are incorporated in the amendments to be moved by the Secretary for Constitutional Affairs at the Committee Stage. I wish to take this opportunity to express my appreciation of the contributions of my
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 26 May 1993 3729 colleagues and parties concerned as well as the positive responses of the Administration. I shall highlight some of the main issues considered by the Bills Committee.
The Bills Committee is concerned about the integrity of the Commission and that it should be seen to be fair and impartial. Although the Bill has provided certain safeguards to maintain the Commission's political neutrality, Members consider that they can be further strengthened by tightening the disqualification criteria for members of the Commission. Amongst the amendments proposed by Members is an extension from two years to four years the period during which a person actively engaged in politics is disqualified from appointment to the Commission. This is considered necessary to exclude those who have taken an active part in the previous election from being appointed as members of the Commission. Similarly, the period during which a past member of the Commission is disqualified from the political activities specified in the Bill is to be extended from two years to four years to cover the period of the next election. Apart from the related amendments to be moved at the Committee Stage, the Administration has given Members the assurance that background information on the members of the Commission, including their past involvement in community activities, where appropriate, will be released at the time of their appointment.
Another major area of concern of the Bills Committee is the need for public consultation as well as transparency in the deliberations of the Commission. Members consider that the Bill should provide for public consultation in the drawing up of guidelines to be issued by the Commission. This proposal is accepted by the Administration, with exceptions allowed in case of urgency. Furthermore, the Administration has also agreed to another suggestion of Members that the Commission should be empowered to conduct public meetings for hearing representations on the provisional recommendations on constituency boundaries. These meetings are to be open unless there are special circumstances that the Commission considers otherwise.
The Bills Committee has sought clarification from the Administration regarding the checks and balances to be in place. The Administration has confirmed that the whole process of constituency demarcation is designed to be transparent and open to scrutiny. Each report of the Commission on constituency boundaries will be tabled before this Council, and any deviation by the Governor in Council will be readily transparent. The subsidiary legislation to give effect to the decision on constituency boundaries will also be subject to the scrutiny of this Council.
Members have also expressed concern about the implications of the delegation of functions (that is, to hand over some work to other committees) as proposed in the Bill. In response, the Administration has advised that delegation of functions is necessary, as the Commission cannot possibly take on all the
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functions itself. To address Members' concerns, amendments will be moved by the Administration to spell out other important functions that cannot be delegated, and to specify that such delegation will not take away the relevant power from the Commission. Besides, important decisions of the Commission will be made at a meeting of all members of the Commission.
The Bills Committee has spent considerable time discussing the statutory criteria for demarcating constituency boundaries. The Bill provides that the Commission should ensure as far as reasonably practicable that the population in each constituency (that is, the population quota) is not greater or less than the average population per constituency by 25%. Views of Members are divided on the proposed 25% margin rule. Some consider that a lower margin rule should be adopted, stressing that geographical constituencies should primarily be divided according to population distribution so as to give equal value for each vote. I am sure Mr Martin LEE who will move an amendment in this respect will elaborate on this.
Other Members of the Bills Committee have, however, indicated support for the 25% margin rule. They are concerned that if a lower margin rule is applied, districts with strong community identity may be split up, thereby arousing resentment from the residents concerned. They consider that geographical constituencies should adhere as far as possible to the administrative districts, and that the Commission should be allowed more flexibility in the demarcation of constituency boundaries to meet future increases in the number of geographical constituencies and the likely fluctuations in population deviation.
In the light of Members' concerns, the Administration has agreed to move amendments to spell out clearly that as the first principle, the population quota should be adhered to as far as possible in the demarcation of constituency boundaries, and that deviation should be allowed only in exceptional circumstances as stated in the Bill.
The Bill also provides for recommendations on the number of elected members in individual district boards to be made by the Commission, subject to the overall total number not being substantially greater or less than 338. I have no doubt the Administration would wish to take the opportunity today to reiterate the advice that it has given to the Bills Committee on the rationale for determining the number of elected district board members and the reason for including such a provision in the Bill.
With these remarks, Mr President, and subject to the amendments to be moved at the Committee Stage, I support the Bill.
MR TAM YIU-CHUNG (in Cantonese): Mr President, the arrangements for the 1994-95 elections in Hong Kong are still being discussed by the Chinese and British Governments. In my view, any legislation regarding our electoral
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arrangements should not be enacted until results have been achieved at these talks. I therefore think that this is not an opportune moment for the Government to introduce the Boundary and Election Commission Bill to this Council for Second Reading.
I would like to highlight the fact that the Bill seeks to amend the existing District Boards Ordinance. Section 5A (of the Ordinance) stipulates that the total number of elected members in respect of all the district boards shall not be substantially greater or less than 338, which is calculated in accordance with the guideline of one directly elected seat for every 17 000 persons. At present there are 441 district board members throughout the territory, of whom 140 are appointed, 274 are elected and 27 are from rural committees. The proposed arrangement of increasing the number of elected members to 338 means that there will be 505 district board members altogether, an extra 64 members. However, I am afraid the structure would be too cumbersome if the district boards are to have a total of 505 members. I wonder whether the aforesaid arrangement implies that all appointed membership on the district boards will be abolished in the next term so as to lower the total number of district board members to 365?
Mr President, I support the idea of gradually reducing the number of appointed seats on district boards. But I do not agree to the abolition of all appointed seats once and for all. If the Government thinks that time is running out and legislation has to be enacted as soon as possible, then the electoral arrangements for 1994-95 should indeed have been brought up for discussion in the Sino-British Joint Liaison Group last year. However, the British Government seemed not to be very keen on this subject at that time. It has never discussed it with the Chinese Government. At a time when the Sino-British Governments are conducting talks on the electoral arrangements, the Government all of a sudden introduces this Bill and an unilateral decision on the number of elected district board members for the next term has been made. This leads one to suspect whether it is again attempting to get something done earlier than it should. I am worried that such a move will create troubles for the Sino-British talks and affect their progress.
Mr President, these are my remarks. I hope the Government will clarify this point.
DR PHILIP WONG: Mr President, I rise to endorse what the Honourable TAM Yiu-chung has said. I simply do not think it is right for us to pass any legislation relating to the 1994- 95 elections while the Sino-British talks on this subject are in progress. Therefore, I shall vote "no" on this Bill. Thank you.
SECRETARY FOR CONSTITUTIONAL AFFAIRS: Mr President, I am most grateful to Dr YEUNG Sum and members of the Bills Committee for their time and effort in examining this Bill. Members of the Committee have made
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many useful comments and suggestions. The Committee stage amendments which I am going to move reflect the consensus between the Administration and the Bills Committee on the various refinements to the Bill.
This Bill has received a wide measure of support from this Council and the community at large. The object of this Bill is to create an independent statutory authority to take over the Administration's responsibility in demarcating geographical constituency boundaries and organization of elections. An independent and impartial Boundary and Election Commission will greatly enhance the credibility of our electoral process. And I would like to start with this important aspect of the Bill.
During discussion at the Bills Committee, views were expressed that members of the Commission should not only be politically neutral, but that they should also be seen to be so. The Bill as originally drafted provides that a member of the Commission shall not take an active part in elections two years before his appointment, as well as two years after the expiry of his appointment. Members have suggested that this "sanitation" period should be extended to four years before appointment, and four years after the expiry of appointment. Members have further suggested that the Bill should expressly provide that a member of the Commission who becomes actively engaged in politics during his tenure should be disqualified from continuing to hold office. I support these suggestions as they will further enhance the impartiality and integrity of the Commission. I will be moving amendments to this effect at the Committee stage.
The Bill contains a number of provisions specifically to ensure transparency of the Commission in making recommendations on constituency boundaries. The Commission's provisional recommendations will be published and the public will be able to send written representations to the Commission within a statutory public consultation period. Having regard to suggestions by the Bills Committee, the Administration agrees that the Bill should be amended to expressly provide that the Commission may conduct public meetings to receive representations, and such meetings be normally held in open sessions. The Administration further agrees that the Commission should conduct public consultation when drawing up guidelines relating to the conduct of, or procedures at, an election. I will be proposing amendments on these areas.
On the statutory criteria for demarcating constituency boundaries, a key concern of Members is the population size of the constituencies. Whilst the principle of equal representation for equal number of people is no doubt an important consideration, it must be carefully balanced against other criteria which are no less important when delineating constituencies. These include geographical features, community identities, and local ties. The need to achieve a sensible balance is all the more important given the uniqueness of Hong Kong being a small, compact place with a dense population which is distributed vertically. We need to put in place a system that works, and that can accommodate future increases in the number of geographical constituencies as
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well as changes in population distribution. It is therefore essential to provide the independent Commission with the necessary flexibility that it needs to balance the various competing, and sometimes conflicting, criteria in drawing up constituency boundaries.
For these reasons, the Administration does not believe it would be practicable to subject the Commission to a narrow margin of population deviation, say 15%, which I understand will be proposed by Mr Martin LEE at the Committee stage. The results of our detailed trial exercise done at the request of the Bills Committee clearly demonstrate the consequence of the rigidity associated with a narrow margin of population deviation, that is, arbitrary demarcation with serious disruption to many well-established local communities. Such disruption would inevitably create confusion and complaints among the affected residents. This, I must say, will do little to help the development of our representative institutions. By contrast, although a 25% margin of deviation will still require the re drawing of constituency boundaries in line with the changes in the pattern of population distribution over time, the frequency of that happening, as well as the extent of disruption to community ties, will be considerably smaller.
However, to meet Members' concern, I will propose amendments to the Bill to provide that whilst the maximum permissible margin of population deviation will remain 25%, as the first principle the population quota should be adhered to as far as practicable. In other words, the Commission would be obliged to make its best endeavour to achieve an equal population size among the constituencies where at all possible. When making recommendations to the Governor, the Commission will have the discretion to exceed the maximum margin of population deviation on grounds of community identities and preservation of local ties. As a further safeguard, the Commission will need to given an explanation each time it recommends that the maximum margin should be exceeded.
According to clause 24 of the Bill, a report of the Commission's recommendations on constituency boundaries submitted to the Governor will be tabled before this Council. Some Members have questioned whether this provision will apply to a report returned by the Governor to the Commission under clause 23 of the Bill. The Administration's intention is that each and every report on constituency boundaries submitted by the Commission, including any returned to it by the Governor under clause 23, has to be tabled before this Council so that Members will be fully aware of its content. I will be proposing amendments to clarify this legislative intent.
Some Members have also suggested that where the Governor in Council rejects the Commission's recommended constituency boundaries, it would have a statutory obligation to make public its reasons. While there can be no doubt that the Administration will fully explain the reasons for rejecting any of the Commission's recommendations, we have grave reservation on such a statutory requirement, given the proceedings of the Executive Council are confidential.
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In any event, there will be sufficient checks and balances against arbitrary decisions: the public will be consulted on the Commission's provisional recommendations; the Commission's recommendations will be tabled before this Council; and the subsidiary legislation which gives effect to the decision of the Governor in Council will be subject to the scrutiny of this Council.
Finally, the Bill provides that the number of elected district board members for the next term will not be substantially greater or smaller than 338. This is to give the district boards a viable and effective size of elected membership in the light of the boards' evolving duties and roles, and so as to enable the elected members to better serve their constituents. The provision will not affect the appointed membership of the district boards. From a practical point of view, this provision is essential as it forms the basic parameter which the Commission must work within when delineating the 1994 district board constituency boundaries. The Commission is required, under clause 18 of the Bill, to submit its recommendations on district board constituency boundaries by 31 December 1993. Without a reasonably clear idea on the number of district board elected seats, the Commission simply cannot proceed with its work and meet the 31 December 1993 deadline.
Mr President, the 1994-95 elections are an important step in the further development of our representative institutions. The Boundary and Election Commission Bill sets out the legal framework which enables the Commission to make the necessary arrangements for these elections. The early enactment of the Bill is therefore essential for the Commission to make a timely start.
Thank you.
Question on the Second Reading of the Bill put and agreed to.
Bill read the Second time.
Bill committed to a Committee of the whole Council pursuant to Standing Order 43(1).
PILOTAGE (AMENDMENT) BILL 1993
Resumption of debate on Second Reading which was moved on 5 May 1993 Question on the Second Reading of the Bill proposed, put and agreed to. Bill read the Second time.
Bill committed to a Committee of the whole Council pursuant to Standing Order 43(1).
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 26 May 1993 3735 TELEPHONE (AMENDMENT) BILL 1992
Resumption of debate on Second Reading which was moved on 16 December 1992 Question on Second Reading proposed.
MR STEVEN POON: Mr President, as the Telephone (Amendment) Bill 1992 is closely related to the Telecommunication (Amendment) Bill 1992 which is also due for resumption of debate on Second Reading at this sitting, I shall comment on them both.
The two Bills seek to amend provisions of the Telephone Ordinance and the Telecommunication Ordinance in order to implement a package which was developed following discussion with Hong Kong Telecommunications Limited, the holding company for the Hong Kong Telephone Company and Hong Kong Telecom International as follows:
(a) replacement of the Hong Kong Telephone Company's former Scheme of Control, which lapsed on 31 March 1991, by a system of incentive regulation known as price capping;
(b) reduction by Hong Kong Telecom International of its IDD charges;
(c) replacement of the Hong Kong Telephone Company's exclusive franchise, on its expiry in 1995, over the local fixed-wired telephone service by a non exclusive licence;
(d) bids invited for the provision of competing fixed-wired networks; and
(e) a requirement on the Hong Kong Telephone Company and Hong Kong Telecom International to allow interconnection by newly licensed fixed wired networks and to allow wireless telecommunication networks to interconnect directly with Hong Kong Telecom International.
The Bills were introduced into this Council on 16 December 1992. A Bills Committee of 14 Members was formed and commenced scrutiny of the Bills on 3 March 1993. Altogether we held eight meetings including six with the Administration. We met with representatives in the telecommunication field and considered 25 submissions from 12 interested organizations. It is evident from these figures that the Bills have given rise to public concern and the Committee has to put in extra efforts to ensure that the rights and interests of the public are protected. As Chairman of the Committee, I must thank my colleagues for their hard work, the Administration for their speedy response and the interested organizations for their contributions. Without the close co-operation of all parties, it would not have been possible to complete scrutiny of
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the Bills within a short space of three months in order to enable early implementation of the package referred to above.
Mr President, I now come to the major issues considered by the Committee.
The main issue considered is undoubtedly the price-capping system. The Committee noted that under the system any variation in the average level of the Hong Kong Telephone Company's local telephone services charges must be contained within an upper limit of 4% below the rate of inflation to be in force for three years. In order to ensure that any rebalancing of charges to remove current cross subsidies will take place gradually and that residential telephone charges do not increase at any unreasonably rapid rate within the limit of the overall price-capping, two sub-caps have been agreed with the Hong Kong Telephone Company. One will limit increases in the charges for telephone line connection to 4% below the inflation rate. The other will limit increases in the residential telephone line rental charge to the rate of inflation. In tandem with the implementation of price-capping system, an undertaking has been given that Hong Kong Telecom International will reduce charges for International Direct Dialling services by an average of 8% and an average of 2% in each of the following two years.
The Committee has expressed concern as to whether the levels of price-capping and sub-cap are justified. The Administration explains that the CPI-4 overall cap is set with regard to the profitability of the Hong Kong Telephone Company and to the historical rate of efficiency gain achieved by the company. The CPI-4 target will be a challenging one as it will need to achieve efficiency gain of 4% p.a. over the next three years to maintain its existing level of profitability. The sub-cap of CPI-0 for residential line rentals has been set to protect consumers from increases in rentals which exceed the rate of inflation. The Administration argues that adequate room should be allowed for the Hong Kong Telephone Company for rebalancing of charges to remove current subsidies. The Committee is not fully satisfied with the Administration's explanation due to lack of relevant financial details which cannot be disclosed without the agreement of the company concerned. As details of price-capping system will be contained in subsidiary legislation which will be submitted to this Council after the Bills are passed, the Committee agrees to further consider the issue when scrutinizing the subsidiary legislation, in the light of any additional information to be provided by the Administration. In this connection, I would like to mention that a Subcommittee has already been formed for this purpose and at its first meeting the Subcommittee requested the Administration to renegotiate with the Hong Kong Telephone Company on the level of sub-cap for residential rental charge on the basis that it should be CPI-4% instead of CPI-0%.
One point on which the Committee has expressed grave concern is the lack of financial disclosure on the part of the Hong Kong Telephone Company and Hong Kong Telecom International. Since these two companies are private
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subsidiaries of a public company, Hong Kong Telecommunications Limited, they are not obliged to publish their accounts separately. The Committee considers that the disclosure of key financial information pertaining to the operation and profitability of those of their services which are covered by exclusive franchise or licence is necessary to safguard public interest. I consider that the Hong Kong Telephone Company and Hong Kong Telecom International should at the minimum be required to publish their financial statements as if they were separate listed companies. The Administration has assured the Committee that these concerns are fully understood and discussions on the issues with Hong Kong Telecommunications Limited will be pursued shortly. They are confident that an agreement will be reached with the Company on arrangements which will satisfy their regulatory requirements and provide an appropriate degree of transparency to the public. After careful consideration, the Committee has accepted this explanation.
Another point of concern raised by the Committee is the requirement for directors and staff of the Hong Kong Telephone Company to be "Commonwealth citizens" as there is no such restriction for Hong Kong Telecommunications Limited, the holding company. Moreover, the words carry a colonial connotation. The Administration has accepted this concern and agreed to delete all such references in the Telephone Ordinance. I shall move the necessary amendment at the Committee stage.
There is also concern that the provision which obliges connection to "any part of" the telephone system operated by the Hong Kong Telephone Company to other telecommunication services is vague and can extend to allow access to any aspect of the Hong Kong Telephone Company's business. The Administration explains that the intention is that the point of interconnection may, for example, be a wire junction box at a residential building, within an exchange switch, at a computer interface or related to a software function. Flexibility will be required to meet the practical circumstances of interconnection and to encourage competition. The objective is to allow the interconnecting parties to reach an agreement on the terms and conditions of interconnection through commercial negotiation. The Telecommunication Authority will intervene only when the negotiation fails to produce a fair and effective agreement. Accordingly, a number of alternatives to replace the words "any part of" are considered. After detailed discussion, the Administration proposes to delete the words without any substitution. The Administration has confirmed that the proposal will still safeguard the legislative intent since the words "such terms and conditions" in the same section will give sufficient power to the Telecommunication Authority to determine the point of interconnection if so necessary. The Committee agrees with the amendment. It will be moved by the Administration at the Committee stage.
Finally, the Committee considers that in order to protect private rights, owners/occupiers should receive a reasonable notice of intention to enter upon their land for the purpose of placing and maintaining telecommunication lines and so on. Moreover, the Committee is not satisfied that the scope of
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compensation to affected owners/occupiers should be reduced to physical damage only. Subsequently, the Administration agrees to amend these provisions to include the giving of reasonable notice to owners/occupiers and to ensure that compensation would not be restricted to physical damage. I shall again move the necessary amendments at the Committee stage.
Apart from the amendments mentioned above, the Committee has agreed with the Administration on other amendments which are purely technical but are considered necessary for improving the drafting of the relevant provisions. These amendments will also be moved by the Administration at the Committee stage.
Mr President, on 3 June last year, I moved a motion in this Council to urge the Government to develop a comprehensive telecommunications policy and to introduce second local fixed-wired telecommunications networks in 1995 when the current licence of the Hong Kong Telephone Company expires. I am pleased to see the Administration has taken up this call and noted the various suggestions of my fellow legislators. The two Bills represent a major milestone of telecommunications liberalization in Hong Kong and I urge the Government to take the momentum of this first step and to implement the necessary liberalization procedures for the overall benefit of Hong Kong.
With these remarks, I support the Bills.
MR LAU CHIN-SHEK (in Cantonese): Mr President, last year the Administration reached an agreement with Hong Kong Telecommunications Limited on the future development of telephone and telecommunication services, including the substitution of a price-capping system for the profit control scheme, the introduction of competition into the market of local fixed-wired network services, and the reduction of IDD charges. Basically, all such measures are to be welcomed, and I will therefore support the Bill concerned.
However, it should not be taken for granted that the introduction of the price capping system and competition will necessarily be beneficial to consumers without first examining in detail whether the implementation of the new control system will really be favourable to consumers. As a matter of fact, it can clearly be seen from the controversy about the ceiling for future telephone services charges that the introduction of competition and charges control is definitely not a panacea. To really safeguard the interests of the people of the lower income group it is necessary to continue public monitoring of the public utility companies concerned.
The Administration has been emphasizing that the main objective of implementing a charges control system is to encourage the company to actively increase its productivity such that both the company and the consumers can benefit. In this connection, I want to ask: Will it be fair and reasonable to the 1.7 million residential telephone subscribers in Hong Kong (especially those
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from the lower income group) that the percentage of increase in residential line rentals should be inflation minus 0% (or 2%) while the overall maximum rate of charges increase for the services of the Telephone Company is inflation minus 4%?
As a matter of fact, even with the most conservative way of calculation, the average annual increase of residential line rentals in the past 10 years is inflation minus 2.4% (see note 1 for details). Therefore, there is no reason why the 1.7 million residential subscribers should now pay even more under the new control system. It is totally contrary to the original intention of encouraging the company to increase productivity by means of a price capping system in order to benefit subscribers. Obviously, this proposal, though unfavourable to residential line users, can help the Telephone Company to face open competition in future in that it can increase its competitiveness by lowering the commercial line rentals since it will be commercial line users whose patronage will be the main target for competition. This situation will be yet more unfair to the residential line users.
The Administration has more than once indicated that under the current pricing system, the residential telephone service is being run in deficit, and if this situation continues, the quality of service may be lowered and that will be even more unfavourable to consumers. I am very much annoyed by such an argument! In fact, there is no information that clearly shows that the local residential telephone service is being run in deficit. On the contrary, I believe that if it had not been for the 1.7 million residential line subscribers making IDD calls, the overall profit of the Hong Kong Telecommunications Limited would not have been so high. Therefore, whether the IDD service is subsidizing the local telephone service is a problem of "whether there was chicken first or egg first". It is different from the situation of bus routes where it can be seen which is subsidizing which. But even if there is subsidy, that will not be unreasonable because that is beneficial to the consumers in general and in accordance with the principles of public utility services. It will however be unreasonable to say that the standard of residential telephone services will be lowered if the percentage of rental increase is not inflation rate minus 0%. I think the Administration definitely has the responsibility to take effective measures (including the setting of service standards) to ensure that the quality of services provided by the Telephone Company will be maintained in any situation.
Besides, I query why the Administration, being the representative of the interests of the public, has not asked the Hong Kong Telecommunications Limited, during the discussions with it last year, to disclose the information relevant to public interests. Quite the contrary, the Administration has always used the pretext of maintaining "commercial confidentiality" to deprive the subscribers and the public of their right to know. The Administration's way of doing it is regrettable!
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Mr President, I appreciate the Secretary for Economic Services' effort in persuading the Telephone Company to disclose the relevant information and lower the percentage of rental increase. But it is clearly not enough just to adjust the increase of residential line to inflation rate minus 2%! I hope that the authority concerned and the Telephone Company can bear in mind the interests of subscribers and further lower the percentage of rental increase for residential lines as soon as possible, otherwise I will have to move amendments to the subsidiary legislation concerned.
Since the new price-capping system has removed the existing procedure of obtaining the approval of the Legislative Council for effecting a price increase, the maximum level of rental increase must be set with due care. I am also worried that in the meantime when the old profit control system was abolished (at the end of March 1991) and a new control system is not yet established, the Telephone Company can have a profit increase of "no limits"! As a matter of fact, before 1991 when the profit control scheme was still in force, the profit of the Telephone Company could not exceed 16% of its shareholders' equity. But in 1991-92, the investment return rate of the Hong Kong Telephone Company (excluding Hong Kong Telecom International) was more than 20%, much higher than that of the previous years (since the profits control system was already abolished in 1991-92, there was no need to credit the profits, however high, into the development fund). I think the Administration should immediately take effective measures such that the profits of the Telephone Company will not be increased without limit during this "vacuum period". I suggest that the authority concerned, in reconsidering the charges ceiling, should endeavour in the direction of further lowering the amount of rental increase, and ask the Telephone Company to retain the amount of profits in excess of 16% of investment return for the purpose of benefiting the subscribers by way of discount in the future.
Mr President, I so make my submission. Thank you.
Note 1: Rental profile of residential telephone line in last 10 years: Year Rental
1982 $33
1983 $38
1985 $43
1989 $48
1991 $56
In the past 10 years (1982 to 1992), the monthly rental of a residential telephone line increased from $33 to $56, which represented a total increase of 69.7% and an average annual increase of 5.4%. But during the same period, the average annual inflation rate of Hong Kong was 7.8%. Therefore the annual rental increase of residential telephone line has been 2.4% below inflation rate.
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MR FRED LI (in Cantonese): Mr President, the current controversy over price capping is somewhat like the Sino-British talks on political reforms. There are two subcategories in the agreement reached between the Government and the Hong Kong Telecommunications Limited. But many members of the Legislative Council panel concerned hardly had any way of knowing the foundation on which the agreement was reached. Commercial confidentiality was cited by the Government as the reason for the complete lack of disclosure of information whenever we asked for it. Just now the Honourable LAU Chin shek has made a number of points which I do not wish to repeat here. I only wish to stress several questions I had raised within the panel and which are so far yet to be answered by the Government.
The government view that residential line rental should be capped at inflation rate minus zero has been founded on three grounds:
(i) consumers will be protected as there will be no substantive increase if it be capped at no higher than inflation rate and, at worst, equal to inflation rate;
(ii) it is hoped that a higher rate of increase may reduce cross subsidy by other services because the residential lines have been operating at a loss for a long time; and
(iii) consumers will benefit from competition to which the Hong Kong Telephone Company will be subject if a second or third network is allowed into the residential line market.
However, these three grounds are hardly justifiable.
(1) The average increase in line rentals over the last decade is inflation rate minus 2.5%. It will be retrogressive if the rate is altered to inflation rate minus zero. Compared with that of the last 10 years, the rate is indeed raised. The consumer is therefore accorded little protection at all.
(2) The allegation of loss is in fact based on figures as appearing in the accounts. We do not know the actual loss, for the Government has insisted that this is commercial secret. But to my knowledge, there are 1.7 million residential line subscribers in Hong Kong (the Honourable LAU Chin-shek also mentioned this earlier) of which 60% are registered as IDD users (that is, International Direct Dial users). The more households connected to the telephone exchange, the greater the potential number of people using IDD. And IDD is basically a major source of profit for the Hong Kong Telecommunications Limited. Therefore the argument that loss is great because the monthly cost for connecting each residential unit to the telephone exchange now is $56 does not hold water. The calculation should not be done this way. Let us not forget that the Hong Kong Telephone Company has developed a variety of services lately such as the Call Waiting and Forward and Homefax Tools (that is, a fax machine installed at home) of the Starline service. These are all very profitable services
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 26 May 1993 3742
available through the residential network. Profits yielded by these services must go under the residential line service. Without the residential line, there will not be these services which make profits for the Hong Kong Telephone Company. Therefore the figures as appearing in the accounts cannot be construed this way.
(3) According to market analysis, there cannot possibly be a second or third residential-based network that could challenge Hong Kong Telephone Company on the market in the next three years. It is because Hong Kong Telephone Company has become the largest and the most predominant telecommunications company. It has already laid umerous cables underground over the years. Any new entrant cannot possibly get a foot hold in the residential line market, let alone compete. Therefore, fundamentally speaking, a second or third entrant into the market cannot benefit, in terms of competition, from the rate of increase be it CPI-0 or CPI-4. Having regard to there three reasons, the Government's argument that CPI-0 is in the best interest of consumers is hardly convincing.
Based on the above observation, I think the next debate will soon unfold because once these two amendment Bills are passed into law, the respective subsidiary legislation will be scrutinized by the Legislative Council. I sincerely hope that the Government will hold discussions with Hong Kong Telecommunications Limited as quickly as possible. The irony is that the further the implementation of the respective subsidiary legislation is delayed, the more money will the Hong Kong Telephone Company make because the IDD charges have not been reduced so far. I know that the company is making $20 million in extra profit monthly because of the delay in passing this Bill. This is basically against the interest of consumers. Given that time is of the essence, I hope that both parties will as soon as possible reach an agreement which will be supported by Legislative Council Members, so that the general public of Hong Kong will benefit from it.
I so submit, Mr President.
SECRETARY FOR ECONOMIC SERVICES: Mr President, I would like to start by thanking the Honourable Steven POON and members of the Bills Committee for their painstaking and diligent scrutiny of the Telephone (Amendment) Bill 1992 and the Telecommunication (Amendment) Bill 1992 over the past three months. I am particularly grateful to members' assistance for according priority to this exercise thus enabling early implementation of the package of measures which we announced last year.
Members of the Bills Committee have made clear their support for the main thrust of the Administration's policy proposals, namely, the introduction of competition to the local fixed network and the replacement of the Hong Kong Telephone Company's former profit control scheme by a system of price capping. As Mr POON has pointed out, enactment of the Bills now before this
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 26 May 1993 3743
Council will mark an important milestone on the road towards further liberalization of our telecommunication markets.
Mr POON has urged us to keep up the momentum. We will. We have already made progress in implementing our policy proposals over the past few months. We are committed to the process of liberalization and we are determined not to let any grass grow under our feet.
I would just like to cite some of the examples which can substantiate what I have said. In September last year we invited those interested in operating competing local fixed network services to submit proposals. We have received seven bids, several of which include overseas participation, a level of interest which surprised many. I view this as a significant vote of confidence in Hong Kong's policy for telecommunications. A careful assessment of the bids is now underway and our aim is to award licences during 1993.
In late 1992 we commissioned a consultancy on how best to manage necessary changes to Hong Kong's telephone numbering system. The views of the public and of the industry are now being sought before final decisions are taken.
We have also been taking forward preparations for the establishment of the new office of the Telecommunications Authority which will take over responsibility for regulating the industry. I intend to submit the necessary staffing and financial proposals to the Finance Committee next month with a view to having the new office up and running from July.
Turning to the Bills and to the points made by Members, Mr POON has ably outlined the background to the Committee stage amendments which will shortly be put to Members. I fully endorse those amendments.
Mr POON has drawn attention to two areas of particular concern to Committee members. The level of the sub-caps within the overall price-cap of Consumer Price Index minus 4% which has been agreed with the Hong Kong Telephone Company and the need for adequate financial disclosure on the part of the Hong Kong Telephone Company and Hong Kong Telecommunications International.
I would like to first turn to the second point. Members have made clear the Committee's view that the minimum acceptable level of disclosure is that which would apply were the companies to be separately listed. I take note of this position. Our aim is to ensure publication of accurate, meaningful and easily understood financial data on exclusive services in a form appropriate to the nature of the business and to the particular regulatory arrangements being applied. We have been in discussion with Hong Kong Telecom on this issue and I can announce today that the Company has agreed to publish profit and loss results, together with the capital employed for the full range of services provided by the Hong Kong Telephone Company. This is a higher level of
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 26 May 1993 3744
disclosure than that provided for under the previous scheme of control. We are now finalizing details on the scope and manner of disclosure with the Company.
I would now like to turn back to price regulation. Mr LI, Mr POON and Mr LAU have raised concern over price capping. We believe we have convinced this Council of the merits of price capping as a form of regulation for the industry. Price capping delivers substantial benefits to consumers in restraining overall increases below inflation and in promoting efficiency. A price cap is transparent, easy to understand and it is a form of price regulation tried, tested and successfully used in countries which are liberalizing their telecommunications markets. Where concern arose, they centred on the level of the sub-cap ceiling to be applied to the residential line rental.
As Mr POON has said, a subcommittee of the House Committee has now been established to consider the price-cap regulations to be made under section 24 of the Telephone Ordinance. I look forward to working further with the subgroup and I am confident we shall be able to work out arrangements which will be acceptable to all. I would just like to make the point that in setting the sub-cap we must ensure that the benefits of our telecommunications reform package, the entire package, are spread evenly throughout the community.
We are committed to promoting efficiency in the delivery of services. At the same time I suggest we should work towards the gradual elimination of cross subsidies, and I emphasize the word "gradual". Whatever the short-term attractions of mandating the Hong Kong Telephone Company to provide residential lines at below operating costs, it would make this more difficult for competing networks to enter the market in 1995. If that happens the benefits of competition may be confined to telephone users in the business sector.
Also, I suggest we should not look at the sub-cap in isolation. It forms part of an overall package of regulatory reforms. From the consumers' viewpoint, perhaps the most attractive element is the weighted 12% IDD reduction which will take effect with the implementation of price capping and which will bring Hong Kong's international charges down to the lowest in the world. To the industry, equally significant, are the reforms announced for the international telecommunications sector, including the liberalization of our value added service regime and the ability of companies to self provide international telecommunication circuits in future for intra-corporate traffic.
I would like now to turn to the amendments that I intend to move at Committee stage. The first amendment to clause 7 of the Telephone (Amendment) Bill, I think Mr POON has referred to that and I shall say no further. We also propose to amend clause 14 of the Bill by adding section 21(1), after the words "Sections" to replace reference in that section to the Postmaster General with reference to the Telecommunications Authority.
The other Committee stage amendment relates to the Telecommunication (Amendment) Bill. Clause 7 of the Bill empowers the Telecommunications
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 26 May 1993 3745
Authority to determine the terms and conditions of interconnection between various specified categories of telecommunications operators. The proposed amendment includes specific reference to the future subscription television operator as being one of the parties covered.
With these remarks, Mr President, I commend to Honourable Members the Telephone (Amendment) Bill 1992 and the Telecommunication (Amendment) Bill 1992, subject to these amendments to be moved at Committee stage. Thank you.
Question on the Second Reading of the Bill put and agreed to.
Bill read the Second time.
Bill committed to a Committee of the whole Council pursuant to Standing Order 43(1).
TELECOMMUNICATION (AMENDMENT) BILL 1992
Resumption of debate on Second Reading which was moved on 16 December 1992 Question on Second Reading proposed.
MR STEVEN POON: Mr President, as mentioned in my speech earlier this afternoon, I support the Bill.
Question on the Second Reading of the Bill put and agreed to.
Bill read the Second time.
Bill committed to a Committee of the whole Council pursuant to Standing Order 43(1).
INTERPRETATION AND GENERAL CLAUSES (AMENDMENT) BILL 1993
Resumption of debate on Second Reading which was moved on 28 April 1993 Question on the Second Reading of the Bill proposed, put and agreed to. Bill read the Second time.
Bill committed to a Committee of the whole Council pursuant to Standing Order 43(1).
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 26 May 1993 3746 Committee stage of Bills
Council went into Committee.
BOUNDARY AND ELECTION COMMISSION BILL
Clauses 1, 4, 9, 11, 14, 15, 19, 22, 25 and 26 were agreed to.
Clauses 2, 3, 5 to 8, 10, 12, 13, 16 to 18, 20, 23 and 24
SECRETARY FOR CONSTITUTIONAL AFFAIRS: Mr Chairman, I move that the clauses specified be amended as set out in the paper circulated to Members.
The amendments to clause 2 are largely technical refinements to improve the definitions of "election" and "function".
Clause 3 is amended so that Judges of the Court of Appeal, in addition to High Court Judges, will be eligible for appointment as Chairman of the Commission. This will allow a larger pool of candidates and greater flexibility in the appointment. The amendment will also expressly provide that the Chief Justice should be consulted on the appointment.
To enhance the neutrality and integrity of the Commission, the disqualification provisions in clause 3 will be tightened as foreshadowed in my speech during the Second Reading debate.
The proposed clause 5(da) will facilitate the Commission in taking a more active role in dealing with complaints and irregularities relating to an election, poll or count.
Clause 6 is amended to specify the subject matters on which guidelines may be issued by the Commission, and to require the Commission to consult the public when drawing up the guidelines. The amendment will also require the Commission to take prompt action in dealing with any complaint relating to an issued guideline.
The amendments to clause 7 provide that the Commission may postpone or adjourn an election, poll or count for not more than two days on the ground of a material irregularity connected with an election. The Commission will be empowered to make regulations on the reporting of such material irregularities.
The amendment to clause 8 puts beyond doubt that the Commission must include any complaints it received during an election in its report to the Governor concerning that election. There is also a technical refinement to the Chinese terms for "general election" and "ordinary election". Similar technical amendment is proposed for clause 17.
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 26 May 1993 3747
The amendments to clause 10 restrict the power of the Commission to delegate important functions, and put beyond doubt that the Commission can still exercise its power over matters delegated.
Clause 12 is amended to extend the post-membership sanitation period from two to four years, and to disqualify a member from appointment as an election agent or subscription to a nomination form during his tenure in the Commission and the four years immediately afterwards.
The proposed clause 13(2) confers protection on the Commission from actions for defamation, and to extend that protection to any comments made by the Commission when referring public complaints to a law enforcement authority under clause 5(da).
The amendments to clauses 16 and 17 are proposed to accommodate the wishes of some Members that there should be provisions to explicitly provide that these two clauses shall apply only to geographical constituency elections. The Law Draftsman has advised that these amendments are in fact unnecessary: when read in context, there can be no doubt that clauses 16 and 17 apply only to geographical constituency elections. Nonetheless the Administration is prepared to make the amendments to remove any lingering concern Members may have.
The amendment to clause 18 is consequential upon the amendments to clause 21 which I will explain later.
Clause 20 is amended to extend the public consultation period from 28 days to 30 days, and to provide that the Commission may conduct public meetings, which should normally be open sessions, to receive representations on its provisional recommendations.
Clause 23 is amended to put beyond doubt that a decision to return to the Commission its report on constituency boundaries shall be made by the Governor in Council, and not the Governor alone. It will also make clear that there is no limit on the number of times a report may be returned by the Governor in Council for the Commission's further consideration.
The amendment to clause 24 makes clear that all reports on constituency boundaries submitted to the Governor, including reports that are returned to the Commission under clause 23, shall be tabled in this Council.
Mr Chairman, I beg to move.
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 26 May 1993 3748 Proposed amendments
Clause 2
That clause 2 be amended —
(a) by renumbering it as clause 2(1).
(b) in subclause (1) -
(i) in the definition of "election" by adding before "section 8" -
"the expressions "general election" and "ordinary
election" in";
(ii) by deleting the definition of "function" and substituting -
""function" (職能) includes a power and a duty;";
(iii) by adding -
""election agent" (選舉代理㆟ ) has the meaning
assigned to it by section 2 of the Corrupt and Illegal
Practices Ordinance (Cap. 288);".
(c) by adding -
"(2) Any reference in this Ordinance to the performance of
a function includes a reference to the discharge of a duty or exercise of a power as the case may require.".
Clause 3
That clause 3(3)(b) be amended, by adding after "High Court" -
"or a Justice of Appeal and shall be appointed in consultation with the Chief Justice".
That clause 3(5)(b) be amended —
(a) in subparagraph (ii) by deleting "or" at the end.
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 26 May 1993 3749 (b) by adding -
"(iia) in the opinion of the Governor, actively engaged in politics; or".
That clause 3(5)(c) be amended —
(a) by deleting "has been -" and substituting -
"has, within the period of 4 years immediately before the date of appointment -".
(b) in subparagraph (i) -
(i) by adding "been" before "nominated";
(ii) by deleting "within the meaning of section 2 of the Corrupt and Illegal Practices Ordinance (Cap. 288)".
(c) in subparagraph (ii) by adding "been" before "an".
(d) in subparagraph (iii) -
(i) by adding "been" before "a";
(ii) by deleting "or" at the end.
(e) in subparagraph (iv) -
(i) by adding "been" before "a" where it first appears;
(ii) by deleting the comma at the end and substituting a semicolon.
(f) by deleting everything after subparagraph (iv) and substituting -
"(v) subscribed in any capacity to a nomination paper as regards an election; or
(vi) in the opinion of the Governor, been otherwise actively engaged in politics;".
That clause 3(5)(d) be amended, by deleting "a period of 2 years" and substituting "the period of 4 years immediately".
That clause 3(5)(e) be amended, by deleting "the Chief Justice, a Justice of Appeal, judge of the High Court or District Judge" and substituting "a judge of the High Court or a Justice of Appeal".
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 26 May 1993 3750 Clause 5
That clause 5 be amended, by adding —
"(da) without affecting the generality of section 6(2), bring to the notice of the appropriate authority or person with or without comments -
(i) any complaint received by it; or
(ii) any occurrence which it considers a material irregularity,
relating to an election, poll or count;".
Clause 6
That clause 6 be amended, by deleting subclause (1) and substituting — "(1) The Commission may issue guidelines -
(a) relating to -
(i) the conduct or supervision of, or procedure at, an
election;
(ii) the activities, in connection with an election, of -
(A) a candidate;
(B) an election agent or any other person assisting
a candidate; or
(C) any other person;
(b) without affecting the generality of paragraph (a), relating to election expenses or the display of publicity materials in connection with an election; or
(c) relating to the procedure for making any complaint referred to in subsection (2).
(1A) The Commission shall consult the public in relation to the guidelines referred to in subsection (1), in such manner as it may determine, unless it considers that such consultation is not practicable due to the existence of an urgent need to issue, revoke or amend a guideline.".
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 26 May 1993 3751 That clause 6(2) be amended —
(a) by deleting "may consider" and substituting "shall consider as soon as reasonably practicable".
(b) by deleting "take such steps" and substituting "make such decision or take such action".
That clause 6 be amended, by deleting subclause (3).
Clause 7
That clause 7(1) be amended —
(a) in paragraph (c) -
(i) in subparagraph (viii) by deleting "and" at the end;
(ii) in subparagraph (ix) by adding "and" at the end;
(iii) by adding -
"(x) the making of a report to the Commission by
any person specified in the regulations,
regarding any occurrence considered by such
person as an irregularity relating to an election,
poll or count;".
(b) in paragraph (f) by adding after "nature" -
"or by an occurrence which appears to the Commission to be a material irregularity relating to the election, poll or count".
(c) in paragraph (g) by adding after "danger" -
"or by an occurrence which appears to the Commission to be a material irregularity relating to the election, poll or count".
(d) in paragraph (j) by adding "of" after "effect".
That clause 7(2)(ii) be amended, by deleting "shall be not later than 14 days" and substituting -
"in the case of a postponement or adjournment by reason of an occurrence which appears to the Commission to be a material irregularity relating to an election, poll or count, shall be not later than 2 days, and in any other case not later than 14 days,".
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 26 May 1993 3752
Clause 8
That clause 8(1) by amended, by deleting everything after "particular case," and substituting -
"make to the Governor a report -
(i) on matters relating to that election in respect of which the Commission has any function under this Ordinance or any other
enactment; and
(ii) which shall, without affecting the generality of paragraph (i), include a report on any complaint made to the Commission in connection
with that election.".
That clause 8(1) be amended —
(a) in paragraph (a), by deleting "㆒般選舉" and substituting "普通選舉".
(b) in paragraphs (b) and (c), by deleting "普通選舉" and substituting "㆒般選 舉".
That clause 8(5) be amended —
(a) in the definition of "general election", by deleting "㆒般選舉 " and substituting "普通選舉".
(b) in the definition of "ordinary election", by deleting "普通選舉" and substituting "㆒般選舉".
Clause 10
That clause 10 be amended —
(a) in subclause (1) -
(i) by adding "issue guidelines under section 6(1), or" before
"make";
(ii) by adding "a duty to make a report under section 8 or" after
"section 7,".
(b) by adding -
"(3) A delegation under this section shall not preclude the
Commission from performing the function so delegated.".
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 26 May 1993 3753 Clause 12
That clause 12 be amended, by deleting subclause (1) and substituting — "(1) Subject to subsection (2) -
(a) a member during his term of office shall be disqualified from -
(i) being nominated as a candidate in respect of an
election;
(ii) being appointed as an election agent; or
(iii) subscribing in any capacity to a nomination paper as
regards an election; and
(b) a person who has ceased to hold office as a member shall be disqualified during the period of 4 years beginning on the date he ceases to so hold office from -
(i) holding office as a member of a public body within
the meaning of section 16(1);
(ii) being nominated as a candidate in respect of an
election;
(iii) being appointed as an election agent; or
(iv) subscribing in any capacity to a nomination paper as
regards an election.".
Clause 13
That clause 13 be amended —
(a) by renumbering it as clause 13(1).
(b) by adding -
"(2) Without affecting the generality of subsection (1), it is
declared that for the purposes of the law of defamation, any comment made under section 5(da) or the publication of any matter relating to a complaint made under section 6(2), in any communication, report or statement, in writing or otherwise, shall be absolutely privileged.".
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 26 May 1993 3754 Clause 16
That clause 16(1) be amended, in the definition of "population quota" —
(a) in paragraph (a), by deleting "elected members specified in" and substituting "members that may be elected to the District Boards pursuant to";
(b) in paragraph (d) by adding "in respect of geographical constituencies" after "Council" where it secondly appears;
(c) by deleting "in respect of or".
Clause 17
That clause 17 be amended, by adding "in respect of geographical constituencies," after "or (d)".
That clause 17 be amended, by deleting "普通選舉" and substituting "㆒般選舉".
Clause 18
That clause 18(1)(e) be amended —
(a) by deleting "section 21(1)(a)(i)" and substituting "section 21(1)(b)". (b) by deleting "section 21(2)" and substituting "section 21(2C)".
Clause 20
That clause 20 be amended —
(a) in subclause (1) by deleting "28" and substituting "30".
(b) in subclause (2) by adding at the end -
"and specify in such notice an address to send any representations in writing for the purposes of this section".
(c) by deleting subclause (4) and substituting -
"(4) Any person may make representations to the
Commission as regards the proposed recommendations within the period of 30 days beginning on the date a notice under subsection (2) is published in the Gazette.
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 26 May 1993 3755
(4A) Representations under subsection (4) may be made in
writing or at any meeting held under subsection (4B).
(4B) The Commission may hold meetings for the purpose of
receiving representations under this section and any such meeting shall be open to the public except where the Commission considers it desirable that a meeting should not be open to the public.
(4C) The Commission may adopt such procedures as it may
determine as regards a meeting held under subsection (4B) and shall notify the public in such manner as it thinks fit of the date, time and place of any such meeting.".
Clause 23
That clause 23 be amended, by deleting the clause and substituting — "23. Return of report
(1) The Governor may, after the Governor in Council has considered a report submitted under this Part in respect of a particular election, return the report for further consideration by the Commission of any recommendation contained in it.
(2) Where a report is returned under this section, the Commission shall make another report to the Governor, as regards the election concerned, within such period, not exceeding 3 months, as specified by the Governor.
(3) The Governor may return under this section the first report submitted in respect of a particular election or a further report submitted following the return of a report.
(4) Section 18 shall apply as regards a report made under subsection (2) subject to necessary modifications and as the circumstances may require.
(5) In this section, any reference to the return of a report includes a reference to the return of a part of a report or a map or maps submitted with a report, and this section shall be construed and have effect accordingly.".
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 26 May 1993 3756 Clause 24
That clause 24(2) be amended, by deleting "a" where it first appears and substituting "any". Question on the amendments proposed, put and agreed to.
Question on clauses 2, 3, 5 to 8, 10, 12, 13, 16 to 18, 20, 23 and 24, as amended, proposed, put and agreed to.
Clause 21
SECRETARY FOR CONSTITUTIONAL AFFAIRS: Mr Chairman, I move that clause 21 be amended as set out under my name in the paper circulated to Members.
For the reasons I have explained earlier, the Administration believes that for practical reasons the Commission should have the discretion to deviate, having regard to community identities and local ties, from the population quota by 25% when drawing up constituency boundaries. To meet Members' concern, however, clause 21 is amended to expressly provide that, as the first principle, the Commission shall ensure that the population per seat is as near as practicable to the population quota. This provision will help ensure that any deviation from the population quota is made only when absolutely necessary, having regard to the other demarcation criteria.
Mr Chairman, I beg to move.
Proposed amendment
Clause 21
That clause 21 be amended, by deleting subclauses (1) and (2) and substituting —
"(1) In making recommendations for the purposes of this Part the Commission shall -
(a) ensure that the population in each proposed constituency in respect of a public body (divided by the number of members
to be elected in respect of that constituency in the election
next following the making of the recommendations) is as near
the population quota for that public body as is practicable; and