HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 3 February 1993 1635 OFFICIAL RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
Wednesday, 3 February 1993
The Council met at half-past Two o'clock
PRESENT
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT
THE HONOURABLE JOHN JOSEPH SWAINE, C.B.E., Q.C., J.P.
THE FINANCIAL SECRETARY
THE HONOURABLE NATHANIEL WILLIAM HAMISH MACLEOD, C.B.E., J.P.
THE ATTORNEY GENERAL
THE HONOURABLE JEREMY FELL MATHEWS, C.M.G., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE ALLEN LEE PENG-FEI, C.B.E., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE MRS SELINA CHOW LIANG SHUK-YEE, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE HUI YIN-FAT, O.B.E., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE MARTIN LEE CHU-MING, Q.C., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE DAVID LI KWOK-PO, O.B.E., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE NGAI SHIU-KIT, O.B.E., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE PANG CHUN-HOI, M.B.E.
THE HONOURABLE SZETO WAH
THE HONOURABLE TAM YIU-CHUNG
THE HONOURABLE ANDREW WONG WANG-FAT, O.B.E., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE LAU WONG-FAT, O.B.E., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE EDWARD HO SING-TIN, O.B.E., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE RONALD JOSEPH ARCULLI, J.P.
THE HONOURABLE MARTIN GILBERT BARROW, O.B.E., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE MRS MIRIAM LAU KIN-YEE, O.B.E., J.P.
1636 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 3 February 1993 THE HONOURABLE LAU WAH-SUM, O.B.E., J.P.
DR THE HONOURABLE LEONG CHE-HUNG, O.B.E.
THE HONOURABLE JAMES DAVID McGREGOR, O.B.E., I.S.O., J.P. THE HONOURABLE MRS ELSIE TU, C.B.E.
THE HONOURABLE PETER WONG HONG-YUEN, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE ALBERT CHAN WAI-YIP
THE HONOURABLE VINCENT CHENG HOI-CHUEN
THE HONOURABLE MOSES CHENG MO-CHI
THE HONOURABLE MARVIN CHEUNG KIN-TUNG, J.P. THE HONOURABLE CHEUNG MAN-KWONG
THE HONOURABLE CHIM PUI-CHUNG
REV THE HONOURABLE FUNG CHI-WOOD
THE HONOURABLE FREDERICK FUNG KIN-KEE
THE HONOURABLE TIMOTHY HA WING-HO, M.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE MICHAEL HO MUN-KA
DR THE HONOURABLE HUANG CHEN-YA
THE HONOURABLE SIMON IP SIK-ON, J.P.
DR THE HONOURABLE LAM KUI-CHUN
DR THE HONOURABLE CONRAD LAM KUI-SHING
THE HONOURABLE LAU CHIN-SHEK
THE HONOURABLE EMILY LAU WAI-HING
THE HONOURABLE LEE WING-TAT
THE HONOURABLE GILBERT LEUNG KAM-HO
THE HONOURABLE ERIC LI KA-CHEUNG, J.P.
THE HONOURABLE FRED LI WAH-MING
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 3 February 1993 1637 THE HONOURABLE MAN SAI-CHEONG
THE HONOURABLE STEVEN POON KWOK-LIM
THE HONOURABLE TIK CHI-YUEN
THE HONOURABLE JAMES TO KUN-SUN
DR THE HONOURABLE SAMUEL WONG PING-WAI, M.B.E., J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE PHILIP WONG YU-HONG
DR THE HONOURABLE YEUNG SUM
THE HONOURABLE HOWARD YOUNG, J.P.
THE HONOURABLE ZACHARY WONG WAI-YIN
DR THE HONOURABLE TANG SIU-TONG, J.P.
THE HONOURABLE CHRISTINE LOH KUNG-WAI
THE HONOURABLE ROGER LUK KOON-HOO
THE HONOURABLE ANNA WU HUNG-YUK
ABSENT
THE CHIEF SECRETARY
THE HONOURABLE SIR DAVID ROBERT FORD, K.B.E., L.V.O., J.P. THE HONOURABLE STEPHEN CHEONG KAM-CHUEN, C.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE MRS PEGGY LAM, O.B.E., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE HENRY TANG YING-YEN, J.P.
IN ATTENDANCE
MR YEUNG KAI-YIN, C.B.E., J.P.
SECRETARY FOR THE TREASURY
THE HONOURABLE JOHN CHAN CHO-CHAK, L.V.O., O.B.E., J.P. SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION AND MANPOWER
MR ALISTAIR PETER ASPREY, O.B.E., A.E., J.P.
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY
1638 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 3 February 1993
MRS ELIZABETH WONG CHIEN CHI-LIEN, I.S.O., J.P. SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE
MR JAMES SO YIU-CHO, O.B.E., J.P.
SECRETARY FOR RECREATION AND CULTURE
THE HONOURABLE MICHAEL SZE CHO-CHEUNG, I.S.O., J.P. SECRETARY FOR CONSTITUTIONAL AFFAIRS
MR ANTHONY GORDON EASON, J.P.
SECRETARY FOR PLANNING, ENVIRONMENT AND LANDS
THE CLERK TO THE LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL
MR CLETUS LAU KWOK-HONG
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 3 February 1993 1639 Papers
The following papers were laid on the table pursuant to Standing Order 14(2): Subject
Subsidiary Legislation L.N. No. Public Order Curfew (Variation) Order 1993.................................................. 13/93
Companies (Requirements for Documents)
Regulation ............................................................................................... 14/93
Securities and Futures Commission
(Transfer of Functions) Order.................................................................. 15/93
Securities and Futures Commission (Fees)
(Amendment) Rules 1993........................................................................ 16/93
Crimes (Torture) Ordinance (11 of 1993)
(Commencement) Notice 1993................................................................ 17/93
Lands Tribunal Ordinance (Amendment of Schedule)
Order 1993 .............................................................................................. 18/93
Companies (Amendment) Ordinance 1992 (86 of 1992)
(Commencement) Notice 1993................................................................ 19/93
Securities and Futures Commission (Amendment) (No. 2)
Ordinance 1992 (87 of 1992)
(Commencement) Notice 1993................................................................ 20/93
Pensions Modification Ordinance 1993 (3 of 1993)
(Commencement) Notice 1993................................................................ 21/93
Surviving Spouses' and Children's Pensions Ordinance
(Cap. 79) (Appointed Day) Notice .......................................................... 22/93
Sessional Papers 1992-93
No. 49 — Hong Kong Polytechnic Annual Report 1991-1992
with Balance Sheet at June 30, 1992 and Income and
Expenditure Account for the year ended on that date
No. 50 — City Polytechnic of Hong Kong
Annual Report 1991-1992 with
Financial Report 1991-1992
1640 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 3 February 1993
No. 51 — Urban Council Estimates of Revenue and
Expenditure for the Financial Year 1993-94
No. 52 — Hong Kong Baptist College Annual Report 1991-1992 with Statement of Accounts
for the year ended 30 June 1992
No. 53 — The Hong Kong Academy for Performing Arts
Annual Report July 1991 to June 1992
DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Mrs Peggy LAM has given notice that she will not be able to attend this sitting and, in accordance with Standing Order 19(6) and at her request, Question No. 1 standing in her name will be asked by Dr LAM Kui-chun on her behalf.
Oral answers to questions
HIV infected students
1. DR LAM KUI-CHUN asked (in Cantonese): Will the Government inform this Council if there are students aged below 16 being discriminated against and expelled from schools after they have contracted AIDS from medicine contaminated by the HIV during treatment for haemophilia; and if so, whether these students are provided with effective help so that they can continue to receive the necessary education and will not be kept idle at home; and what action has been taken against the schools which have adopted such discriminatory measures, so as to rectify such policies and decisions?
SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION AND MANPOWER: Mr Deputy President, schools must obtain the prior approval of the Director of Education in order to expel a pupil for any reason. No student aged below 16 has been formally expelled from school after having contracted AIDS during treatment for haemophilia. However, there has recently been one case where, in the wake of wide publicity, a school has been unwilling to take back an HIV infected student after a period of absence due to ill health, because of opposition from parents of other children at the school. The Education Department has made interim arrangements for the student to continue his education in a small group setting. The aim is to place him in an ordinary school as soon as practicable.
Provided that proper precautions are taken against blood-borne diseases (and the Education Department has issued detailed guidelines on this subject), the risk of transmitting the AIDS virus in the school environment is considered by the medical profession to be very low indeed. The Government's policy regarding HIV-positive students is therefore that they should be educated in the normal school setting as long as they are medically fit to do so. If a school
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expels or refuses to take back an HIV-positive student who is considered suitable for normal schooling, the Director of Education has available, under the Code of Aid, the ultimate sanction of reducing or withdrawing any subsidy to that school. However, the wide publicity given to the particular case I just mentioned would result in the student being stigmatized if he were returned to his original school. Therefore, the Education Department has, with the full agreement of the parents concerned, adopted a pragmatic attitude and made alternative arrangements to continue the student's education. In the circumstances, it is considered inappropriate to contemplate any action against the school in question.
DR LAM KUI-CHUN (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, the Secretary mentioned in the first paragraph of his answer that, in the wake of wide publicity, a school had been unwilling to take back a student after a period of absence due to ill health; but later on he said that that was due to opposition from parents of other children at the school. May I know which in fact was the cause that had kept the student away from school and who is responsible for meeting the costs of his present small group tutorial?
SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION AND MANPOWER (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, according to our record, the student concerned was absent from school for some time because of ill health. The school was unwilling to take him back on the ground that there was opposition from parents of other children at the school. The Education Department has made arrangements for the student to continue his education. As for details as to who is responsible for meeting the costs, I believe it should be the Government. However, I am not absolutely sure about that. I will check and provide Dr LAM with a written reply. (Annex I)
DR CONRAD LAM (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, the Secretary mentioned in his reply that there was opposition from parents of students. I would like to ask: In cases like this, can any student be kept away from school because of opposition from parents of other students? Besides, did the school or the Education Department provide education or guidance to these parents who have no knowledge of AIDS?
SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION AND MANPOWER (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, this is special because of the particular circumstances of the case, and most important of all is the wide publicity given to it. Basically, the policy of the Education Department is that if a student is considered suitable for normal education by the medical profession, he should continue his education in the normal school setting. However, the case under discussion is exceptional because of its special circumstances.
1642 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 3 February 1993
As for education to parents, various efforts have been made by the Education Department. Apart from promoting a correct understanding of AIDS among schools and teachers, other publicity efforts include radio and television broadcasts and distribution of pamphlets so as to spread the message of AIDS prevention.
DR LEONG CHE-HUNG: Mr Deputy President, as the question relates to children below the age of 16 having contracted AIDS from medicine contaminated by HIV during treatment for haemophilia, and as these unfortunate sufferers are victims of a disease beyond their own control, whilst not implying fault on the part of the agents or suppliers of these contaminated medicines, would the Administration consider extending to the victims some form of no-fault compensation?
DEPUTY PRESIDENT: That is out of the ambit of the question, Dr LEONG.
MRS SELINA CHOW (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, will the Administration inform this Council of the number of students who have unfortunately contracted AIDS? Does the Education Department have any mechanism in place to help students, parents and schools under such situation so that the students concerned can continue with their education?
SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION AND MANPOWER (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, according to the record of the Department of Health, there are at present 15 HIV carriers who are aged 18 or below. Their identity however may not be revealed to us because if medical professionals consider a patient or an infected person is suitable for education in the normal school setting, they would not disclose the person's identity.
In fact, the Education Department has carried out a number of publicity and education programmes for students. Basically, we promote the understanding of AIDS among schools and teachers through provision of guidelines and teaching materials. But most important of all is to let everyone know the media of contracting AIDS and its prevention. We all know that the AIDS virus can be transmitted through various means like sexual contacts and blood transmission. The risk of being infected in the school environment is very low provided that the necessary precautions have been taken.
MR CHEUNG MAN-KWONG (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, when a student bleeds, the conventional method in school to stop bleeding is to use absorbent cotton. Would the Administration inform this Council if it intends to broadcast in the near future on television during prime hours to educate teachers, students and the public on the common sense approach to deal with
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 3 February 1993 1643
bleeding, the first step of which is to wear gloves before handling bleeding wounds so as to prevent contracting the AIDS virus through blood?
SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION AND MANPOWER (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, the guidelines issued by the Education Department to schools have covered this. They further require schools to have plastic gloves in their first aid kit. I thank Mr CHEUNG for his suggestion about spreading the message further through television and other publicity means. We are only too happy to take this into account.
Holidays review
2. MR PANG CHUN-HOI asked (in Cantonese): After a lapse of 10 years since the last review in 1982 on Hong Kong's holidays, will the Government inform this Council of the following:
(a) when the next review will take place to ensure the smooth transition of our future holiday arrangements in 1997; and
(b) whether the Government will, in view of the fact that 1 May is already designated as Labour Day by Mainland China, Taiwan and many other countries, and the fact that many local labour organizations have for some years been seeking to have that day declared as a labour holiday, conform to such public opinion and promptly designate 1 May as a labour holiday in Hong Kong; if so, when this will be put into effect; if not, what the reasons are?
SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION AND MANPOWER: Mr Deputy President, there are two sets of holidays in Hong Kong, namely: general holidays provided under the Holidays Ordinance, which consist of all Sundays and 17 weekdays a year; and statutory holidays provided under the Employment Ordinance, of which there are 11 days a year.
The Government recognizes that some changes will have to be made in future to our present holidays so as to reflect the change of sovereignty. Furthermore, since the holidays for any year need to be decided at least eight months before the beginning of that year so as to facilitate the preparation of diaries, timetables and so on, some advance planning and discussion will be necessary to ensure a smooth transition in 1997. As a first step in this process, the Administration is currently reviewing Hong Kong's holidays and considering:
(a) first, which of our present holidays should be retained after 1997; and
1644 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 3 February 1993 (b) secondly, the need for additional or replacement holidays after 1997.
The review will include consideration of whether 1 May, being International Labour Day, should be designated as a holiday in Hong Kong and, if so, from which year onwards. Meanwhile, under existing arrangements, the 11 statutory holidays provided under the Employment Ordinance include two "floating holidays" which may be assigned by the employer to any dates he chooses. Thus, with the agreement of their employers, employees may take one of these "floating holidays" on 1 May if they so wish.
MR PANG CHUN-HOI (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, I am glad to know that the Administration is conducting a review. May I know when this review will be completed and whether consideration will be given to designating 1 May as a holiday?
SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION AND MANPOWER (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, we are still conducting the review to which I have referred. We believe that it should be completed within the year.
MR MARVIN CHEUNG: Mr Deputy President, would the Government inform this Council what are the other steps involved in this review process?
SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION AND MANPOWER: Mr Deputy President, because this is a matter which is likely to involve the question of the transition across 1997, we expect that depending on the outcome of the review discussions with the Chinese side will be necessary.
MR TAM YIU-CHUNG (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, I am very pleased to hear that the Government attaches importance to a smooth transition. What I would like to ask is: Would the Administration consider implementing the changes as early as next year if the review is completed this year?
SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION AND MANPOWER (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, since the review has just started, I do not intend at the present stage to speculate on the outcome of the review or the timing of implementing the changes, if any, to our present holidays.
MR LAU CHIN-SHEK (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, would the Secretary inform this Council whether this review will attempt to narrow the gap between the present 17 general holidays (commonly known as the "white-
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 3 February 1993 1645
collar holidays") and the 11 statutory holidays (that is, the "blue-collar holidays"), and if not, why not?
SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION AND MANPOWER (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, we have yet to come to a conclusion on the present review. Furthermore, we do not have a preset objective, that is, whether or not to increase or reduce the number of our present holidays. However, we must consider very carefully its implications on our economy and other related areas.
The Governor's remuneration
MR FREDERICK FUNG (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, before the meeting today, some Members jokingly asked me whether my question today concerning tax payment by the Governor was a move intended to "do him in while he is sick". I would like to clarify here that the notice of the question was given to the Administration more than a month go, and it just happened that it was arranged to be raised today. In fact, on behalf of myself and, if I may, of this Council, I would wish the Governor an early recovery and I hope that he can lead the Hong Kong Government to resume negotiations with the Chinese side as soon as possible on the issues of constitutional package and the new airport, to the effect that a democratic system can smoothly cross over 1997. Mr Deputy President, my question is whether the Administration can inform this Council:
(a) whether the Governor is a member of the Hong Kong civil service; .....
DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Mr FUNG, what was the point of your preamble as you are still asking your question? That was out of order. Will you please proceed with your question.
3. MR FREDERICK FUNG asked (in Cantonese): Will the Government inform this Council:
(a) whether the Governor is a member of the Hong Kong Civil Service;
(b) of the form in which the Governor receives his remuneration from the public coffers of Hong Kong, that is, whether as salary, allowances or in any other form; and
(c) whether consideration has been given to imposing tax on the remuneration received by the Governor, and if not, why not?
1646 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 3 February 1993
FINANCIAL SECRETARY: Mr Deputy President, the Governor is not a member of the Hong Kong Civil Service. He is appointed by the Queen under the Letters Patent as Her Majesty's representative in Hong Kong.
Like his predecessors, the present Governor receives a salary, which is fixed at 125% of that of the Chief Secretary, and a non-accountable entertainment allowance. The salary attracts the normal contract gratuity. The Governor is also eligible for a variety of benefits normally available to civil service employees on similar terms, including annual leave passages, education allowances and so forth, payable in cash or kind.
The Governor is exempt from salaries tax by virtue of section 8(2)(a) of the Inland Revenue Ordinance, enacted in 1947. Comparable exemptions apply to other Governors paid by dependent territories.
The Governor's terms and conditions of service, including the fact that his emoluments are tax-free, were set out in his formal letter of appointment. The Governor has made it clear, however, that once the forthcoming Memorandum on the Queen's tax position has been published, the Hong Kong Government should review it carefully to see if it has any implications for his own tax position under Hong Kong law.
MR FREDERICK FUNG (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, Professor Peter WESLEY SMITH of the Department of Law of the University of Hong Kong has said that whether the Governor should pay tax is purely a matter of the domestic law of Hong Kong. Secondly, when the Governor first came to Hong Kong for his inauguration, he ignored the colonial convention by not wearing the traditional costume. Thirdly, the Queen has announced that she is going to pay tax from April this year. In these circumstances, will the fact that the Governor is still considering his tax position give the impression that he is using delaying tactics or that he is unwilling to pay tax?
DEPUTY PRESIDENT: It is a purely hypothetical question based on an opinion. The whole question is outside Standing Orders, Mr FUNG.
MR STEVEN POON: Mr Deputy President, in the fourth paragraph of the answer it has been said that the letter of appointment states that this is a tax-free appointment. May I ask who signed the formal letter of appointment; whether it is the responsibility of this Council to judge if the Governor should pay tax by virtue of this Council's power to amend the Inland Revenue Ordinance; or whether it is outside the power of this Council because the Governor's appointment is an exercise of the royal prerogative by the Queen?
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 3 February 1993 1647
FINANCIAL SECRETARY: Mr Deputy President, I have no idea, I am afraid, who signed the letter of appointment. I will attempt to find out for the honourable gentleman. Of course, the exemption stems initially from an extension of Crown privilege. That is the basis of the exemption, and the exemption is made effective by the provisions of the Inland Revenue Ordinance. I am afraid I cannot give a legal opinion on the powers of this Council to amend the Inland Revenue Ordinance either. But I would really just refer back to the fourth paragraph where I have already said that the Governor has asked that the Hong Kong Government should review carefully the position once we have the Memorandum on the Queen's tax position. So that is our position. (Annex II)
MR JAMES TO (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, according to the third paragraph of the Secretary's reply, the Governor is exempt from salaries tax by virtue of the Inland Revenue Ordinance enacted in 1947, and it has henceforth been the law that the Governor is exempt from salaries tax. Can the Secretary inform this Council of the rationale of the exemption when the provision was introduced?
FINANCIAL SECRETARY: Mr Deputy President, as I said earlier, the current exemption enjoyed by the Governor is an extension of Crown privilege which is made effective by the provisions of the Inland Revenue Ordinance. The Inland Revenue Ordinance was first enacted in 1947. It was actually, as a matter of interest, preceded by the War Revenue Ordinance which introduced the exemption in 1940.
MR CHEUNG MAN-KWONG (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, my question is: Since the main reply has mentioned that the Governor has made it clear that the Hong Kong Government should review his tax exemption only after the Memorandum on the Queen's tax position has been published, then if the result of the review is that "he should pay tax", all will be fine, but if the result is that "he should not pay tax", then what will be the next step? If the latter is the case, will the Legislative Council have the power to request him to pay tax, or should it be left to the British Government or the Hong Kong Government to decide whether he should pay tax?
DEPUTY PRESIDENT: It is a purely hypothetical question, Mr CHEUNG.
MR CHIM PUI-CHUNG (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, according to the information available, there have been continual renovations in the Government House since the Governor Mr Chris PATTEN assumed office. Is that within the scope of his allowances, and how much has so far been spent?
1648 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 3 February 1993 DEPUTY PRESIDENT: It is not relevant to the question, Mr CHIM.
MR PETER WONG: Mr Deputy President, will the review extend to the consular officials in Hong Kong because they also enjoy such tax exemption in respect of their consular emoluments?
DEPUTY PRESIDENT: That is just marginally relevant, Mr WONG.
FINANCIAL SECRETARY: Mr Deputy President, no, it is not our intention to extend it to consular officials.
MR FREDERICK FUNG (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, referring to the third paragraph of the main reply in which it was said that the provision was introduced in 1947, may I ask if the Governors had to pay tax before 1947?
FINANCIAL SECRETARY: Mr Deputy President, as I said in answer to an earlier question, the furthest I can go back is to 1940 which was a preceding Ordinance called the War Revenue Ordinance. I am not aware what the position was before 1940. I will endeavour to find out and let the questioner know in writing. (Annex III)
Financial sponsorship for political organizations
4. MISS EMILY LAU asked (in Cantonese): In view of public concern over financial sponsorship received by political organizations run or joined by Legislative Councillors, will the Government inform this Council:
(a) whether the Government is aware of the details of the donations received by these political organizations; if so, whether such information will be made available to the public;
(b) whether the Government will consider introducing legislation to require these political organizations to declare and disclose the source of their financial sponsorship and the particulars of their expenditure?
SECRETARY FOR CONSTITUTIONAL AFFAIRS: Mr Deputy President, other than two exceptions, there are at present no requirement for political organizations to disclose to the Government details of donations received. The exceptions are:
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 3 February 1993 1649
(a) Any political organization registered under the Companies Ordinance as a public company is under a statutory requirement to file with the Registrar of Companies each year audited income and expenditure accounts. These are open to public inspection at the Companies Registry.
(b) Any political organization which is permitted by the Secretary for Home Affairs under the Summary Offences Ordinance to raise funds for non-charitable purposes in public places is required to submit its audited accounts, which are made available for public inspection.
The Government does not have any plan to introduce legislation to require political organizations generally to disclose the source of their financial sponsorship and the particulars of their expenditures.
MISS EMILY LAU (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, the Administration has mentioned in its reply that it is not aware of the details of the donations received by political organizations, and that it does not have any plan to introduce legislation in this respect. In the circumstances, political organizations may then accept substantial contributions from local or overseas political organizations or the business sector and do not have to disclose such sponsorship; does the Administration find this acceptable?
SECRETARY FOR CONSTITUTIONAL AFFAIRS: Mr Deputy President, I do not wish to enter into a moral judgment as to the acceptance or otherwise of political contributions. But I think it is a fact that in developed democracies, including the United Kingdom, there is no need for political parties to disclose or to account for donations received.
MR LEE WING-TAT (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, I refer to paragraph (b) of the Administration's reply where it says that under the Summary Offences Ordinance, the Secretary for Home Affairs may permit political organizations to raise funds for non charitable purposes in public places. Has the Secretary for Constitutional Affairs turned down applications from political organizations for fund-raising in public places in the past two years? If yes, would that undermine the development of political organizations? Has the Administration considered introducing legislation to allow political organizations to raise funds in public places?
SECRETARY FOR CONSTITUTIONAL AFFAIRS: Mr Deputy President, as there is no legal definition for political organizations, it is not possible for me to give separate figures for these organizations. Overall, the Administration has to date received seven applications for permits under the Summary Offences
1650 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 3 February 1993
Ordinance to raise funds for non-charitable purposes. Three were from mutual aid committees applying to raise funds within the premises of the public housing estates. Their applications were accordingly referred to the respective authority, that is, the Housing Authority or Housing Society as the case may be. Of the four remaining applications, two were rejected, because in one case the applicant failed to submit further information for the Administration's consideration, and in the other case because the applicant sought to raise funds in the streets instead of confined public places. The two successful applicants have already submitted to the Administration certified copies of the audited accounts of the monies collected. And as for whether the restriction placed on political donations in public places constitutes a restriction on political activities, I would submit, Mr Deputy President, that in addition to raising funds in public places there is a wide variety of other outlets which exist, for example, in shopping arcades, hotels, and through direct mailing and other methods. I am sure Members are far more familiar with these than I am.
MR LEE WING-TAT: A follow-up .....
DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Well, you are really asking a supplementary question, Mr LEE, but go ahead.
MR LEE WING-TAT (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, I would like the Secretary to clarify one point. In his reply he said that one application had been rejected because it sought to raise funds in the streets instead of confirmed public places. May I know if the term "public places" mentioned in the reply when referring to public organizations that are "permitted ..... to raise funds .....in public places" is ambiguous in meaning?
SECRETARY FOR CONSTITUTIONAL AFFAIRS: Mr Deputy President, there are public places in which fund-raising for a specific non-charitable purpose is allowed, and these places would include public stadia and other confined places, in other words, not in the very crowded streets of Hong Kong.
MR MARVIN CHEUNG: Mr Deputy President, will the Government inform this Council what are the precise requirements for the disclosure of information concerning details of donations in audited accounts referred to in the Secretary's reply and whether these requirements have the backing of law?
SECRETARY FOR CONSTITUTIONAL AFFAIRS: Mr Deputy President, I do not have the details to enable me to give a full reply to the questions and I shall research into that and provide a written reply. (Annex IV)
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 3 February 1993 1651
MR JIMMY McGREGOR: Mr Deputy President, I am very glad to hear the answer in the second paragraph of the Secretary's reply to the original question. But in the meantime, how does the Government determine whether an organization is political or not? And cannot any organization declare donations under an audit heading which need not identify the donor or, hopefully, all the donors?
SECRETARY FOR CONSTITUTIONAL AFFAIRS: Mr Deputy President, I think Mr McGREGOR points out a real dilemma for the Secretary for Home Affairs when he has to consider requests for such permits. And it is difficult for me to answer on his behalf, but I think the best answer is to try and interpret the word in its ordinary meaning.
DEPUTY PRESIDENT: A supplementary, Mr McGREGOR?
MR JIMMY McGREGOR: Yes, Mr Deputy President. May I ask what the ordinary meaning is?
SECRETARY FOR CONSTITUTIONAL AFFAIRS: Mr Deputy President, I think the ordinary meaning is that these are political parties with an aim of running for elections to one of the three tiers of government.
DR LEONG CHE-HUNG: Mr Deputy President, will the Administration inform this Council if plans are in progress to enact laws for the registration of political organizations, so that such bodies can solicit funds from the public to support political activities?
SECRETARY FOR CONSTITUTIONAL AFFAIRS: Mr Deputy President, we have no plans to enact laws to register political parties.
MR PETER WONG: Mr Deputy President, while recognizing that a person should not be able to do something through a legal entity which he cannot do himself, can the Secretary confirm that there are no plans to require individual Legislative Councillors to declare the source of donations received?
SECRETARY FOR CONSTITUTIONAL AFFAIRS: Mr Deputy President, I think there are at present Standing Orders in this Council which require Councillors to make such declarations to the Committee on Members' Interests, and I think this is something for Members.
1652 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 3 February 1993 Triad elements in schools
5. MRS SELINA CHOW asked: With regard to the remarks made public by the police last October that no infiltration of triad elements in local schools had been detected, will the Government inform this Council:
(a) what measures have been taken by the Administration to gather information on the infiltration of such undesirable elements into schools and what problems have emerged in gathering such information; and
(b) what mechanism is in place to enable the police to enlist the full co-operation of schools in dealing with the problem of juvenile delinquency?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr Deputy President, I should like to preface my reply by placing the reported remarks of the police in their proper context. The police conducted a study and prepared a report last year on "Triads in Schools". The conclusion of the study was that triad recruitment of students remained a problem; but that there was no indication of an organized triad campaign to enter schools for recruitment, and that most recruitment of students probably occurred outside schools.
Information on triad and other criminal activities in schools is obtained from a number of sources, including crime reports, school authorities and parents. Reluctance among students to report such activities in schools is the major obstacle to gathering full and accurate information on the subject. To try to overcome this reluctance, the police will soon launch a pilot scheme in Wong Tai Sin and Western Districts involving a new, special student crime report form. Students will be encouraged to use the form to provide information on crime or triad activity in schools on an anonymous basis; information obtained from the forms will be used in strict confidence.
The police maintain good liaison with and receive good co-operation from schools in tackling the problem of juvenile delinquency. Police liaison officers visit schools regularly to give talks to students on the nature and consequences of triad and other criminal activities. They also liaise closely with headmasters and teachers, and advise on how to deal with unruly and delinquent behaviour in schools. In addition, an inter-departmental working group, consisting of representatives from the Education Department, the Social Welfare Department and the police, has been set up to consider how to strengthen support for schools with triad problems. The working group is working on guidelines for school discipline masters on ways of dealing with problem students.
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 3 February 1993 1653
MRS SELINA CHOW: Mr Deputy President, does the reluctance to report, referred to in the second paragraph of the answer, extend to school authorities, and are there any signs that they might want to cover up such problems in fear of damage to their reputations, and if so, what does the Government choose to do about it?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr Deputy President, the great majority of schools, as I have said, are very co-operative and are willing to report triad activities in their schools to the police. There are sometimes a few schools who may be reluctant to do so because of their fear of the adverse impact on the reputation of their schools. But the Police School Liaison Teams visit such schools and impress upon them the importance of reporting triad activities to the police. I believe that these efforts are generally successful and that the co operation and flow of information between the police and the schools is good.
MRS MIRIAM LAU: Mr Deputy President, the role of the Police Liaison Officers is to visit schools to give talks and also liaise closely with the school authorities. Can the Administration inform this Council whether there is any plan, firstly, to increase the number of such officers; and secondly, to extend the role of such officers so that they can actually build up close relationships with the students in their respective districts?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr Deputy President, I do not think there are any plans at present to increase the number of Police Liaison Officers, but certainly the inter departmental working group, to which I referred, is considering how liaison between the police and the schools, and indeed between other agencies, such as the Social Welfare Department, can be strengthened. It is taking a number of initiatives on this, including improved guidelines for School Social Workers, and also dealing with the possibility of setting up Police School Support Teams. Another initiative that the police have taken in recent months is to increase the police presence outside schools because, as I said in my main answer, we do believe that such recruitment as does take place probably occurs mostly outside schools.
MR ERIC LI (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, I believe that some of the youths when faced with triad intimidation, whether they come from within or outside schools, would prefer in the final analysis to turn to their school for support. Can the Administration inform this Council, apart from reporting to the police as have been so advised or reforming themselves under the guidance of teachers, whether students would be given other protection or assistance so as to help them give up their triad affiliations?
1654 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 3 February 1993
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr Deputy President, I am not sure whether the question is referring to students who may have already been persuaded or intimidated into joining triad societies. But certainly there are existing arrangements for the police, in co-operation with the schools and with the Social Welfare Department, to make arrangements to help students who may want to give up their triad affiliations.
MR JAMES TO (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, according to the police, there is no indication of triad infiltration in schools. But the Secretary said in his reply that triad recruitment of students remained a problem though it took place not in schools but outside them. I hope that he would stop playing with words as members of the public would like to know how serious the problem is. Can the Administration inform this Council, on the basis of their estimation and the information available, of the number of students believed to have joined triad societies, and how serious the problem is?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr Deputy President, I do not think I am playing with words. I do not have figures, and I do not think figures are available on how many students are believed to be members of triad societies. But I can give, I think, some indication of the problem. In 1992, 16% of the total number of persons arrested for crimes were juveniles although that figure of the number of juvenile arrests represented a 5% decrease from the previous year, that is, 1991. The main offence committed by juveniles is shop theft and also other forms of theft and robbery. It is difficult to say precisely what proportion of these crimes were triad-related, but we believe that in 1992 there were 412 crimes committed by juveniles which the police have classified as triad-related.
MR WONG WAI-YIN (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, at the end of the third paragraph of his reply, the Secretary said that an Inter-Departmental Working Group had been set up to consider how to strengthen support for schools with triad problems. Just now Mr James TO asked for some related figures, which the Secretary was unable to provide. Referring to the third paragraph of his reply, will the Secretary inform this Council of the criteria used to determine which schools have triad problems?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: I can only give a very commonsense answer, Mr Deputy President, that a school would be considered as having triad problems if it had members of the school who were triad members or where it experienced the sort of delinquent behaviour and criminal behaviour that one would associate with gang membership.
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 3 February 1993 1655
MR MAN SAI-CHEONG (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, when triad elements infiltrated into schools, particularly the famous ones, the school authorities most likely would deny it for fear that their reputation would be affected. We learnt from school social workers that there had been actual cases where some students were victimized because they were forced to leave school due to triad affiliations. Can the Administration inform this Council whether it is prepared to address the problems squarely instead of avoiding it and to seek co-operation between the Education Department and the Social Welfare Department so as to prevent the problem from spreading further, either inside and outside schools, and to ensure that no students would be deprived of education because of triad affiliations?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr Deputy President, I am not sure that I heard a question there. But perhaps I could say, as I have said before, I believe that the Government as a whole, through its various departments, is putting a lot of resources into tackling this problem and that there is good co-operation between the Government and the schools, and indeed good co-operation between the various agencies of the Government, including the police, the Education Department and the Social Welfare Department.
Private hospitals' alleged refusal to treat emergency cases
6. DR LEONG CHE-HUNG asked: Several cases were reported in recent months of private hospitals allegedly refusing to attend to or to admit patients involved in accidents or with injuries that required urgent treatment. Will the Administration inform this Council whether there are any legislation or codes of practice to govern private hospitals in responding to requests for emergency treatment and, if not, how the Government ensures that private hospitals and clinics are suitably discharging their duty of caring for patients?
SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE: Mr Deputy President, Patients may be admitted to private hospitals by their attending private medical practitioner or after seeking treatment at the hospitals' own out-patient department.
Patients in private hospitals are under the direct care of individual private doctors who, in discharging their professional duty of care to patients, are governed by the Medical Registration Ordinance and its subsidiary legislation.
Private hospitals and clinics are required to be registered with the Director of Health and must satisfy him as to the fitness of staff, accommodation, equipment and facilities appropriate to the purpose for which they were set up under the Hospital, Nursing Homes and Maternity Homes Registration Ordinance. The type of services offered by private hospitals and clinics must therefore be in keeping with their registration.
1656 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 3 February 1993
Apart from the law, doctors are themselves governed by the professional code of practice issued by the Medical Council of Hong Kong. The International Code of Medical Ethics also requires every medical practitioner to always bear in mind the obligation of preserving human life and calls upon him to give emergency care as a humanitarian duty unless he is assured that others are willing and able to give such care.
Legislation regulates professional standards and practice. However, the question of treatment of a patient is a matter for clinical judgement, involving medical ethics, and not just law.
DR LEONG CHE-HUNG: Mr Deputy President, will the Administration inform this Council whether there is any legislated code of practice for private hospitals and clinics — and I stress "hospitals and clinics" not "practitioners" — for dealing with patients with injuries suspected to be due to foul play — and I again stress patients with injuries suspected to be due to foul play? If not, can these private institutes admit or administer treatment to these cases, and if so, what special procedures or precautions do the health care workers need to take?
SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE: Mr Deputy President, I can refer to actual statistics that we have which indicate that private hospitals do look after emergency patients. For example, in 1991 a total of 5 378 patients were admitted to private hospitals for the treatment of accident, injury and poisoning. These include accidental falls, motor vehicle accidents and accidental poisoning by drugs. Statistics for 1992 are not yet available. In general, therefore, private hospitals provide 24-hour out-patient services which treat and admit patients with medical and surgical emergencies. Some private hospitals do treat and admit patients involved in accidents or with injuries suspected to have legal implications. I should also add that not all private hospitals have accident and emergency services when they are registered. Private hospitals may therefore refer patients elsewhere in cases where they are ill-equipped to provide treatment of the appropriate type to the patients in question. To this end, the public sector provides comprehensive accident and emergency facilities capable of handling all types of cases.
DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Do you have a follow-up question, Dr LEONG?
DR LEONG CHE-HUNG: Yes, it is a follow-up question, thank you, Mr Deputy President. Since the Secretary has said in reply that private hospitals and clinics can treat patients suspected of foul play, can the Administration inform this Council why these patients are always taken by ambulance to a public accident and emergency department in spite of the fact that a private hospital may be very nearby?
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 3 February 1993 1657
SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE: Mr Deputy President, As I say, private hospitals are not all equipped with suitable accident and emergency facilities or with personnel who can attend to different types of injuries. So private hospitals may and do indeed refer patients elsewhere. To this end, the large general and acute hospitals of the region provide comprehensive care and are suitably qualified in that regard and they have facilities capable of handling various forms of emergencies.
MR MICHAEL HO (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, will the Administration inform this Council whether private hospitals can refuse to admit or treat emergency patients because they fail to pay for their treatment or fail to make immediate payment?
DEPUTY PRESIDENT: In relation to accidents and injuries that require urgent treatment? That was the original question.
MR MICHAEL HO (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, my question asks specifically whether these patients should be denied emergency treatment because they fail to pay or do not have the money to pay for their treatment?
DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Emergency treatment.
SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE: Mr Deputy President, I do not want to speculate on isolated cases. If there are such cases of referral simply because the patient does not have the money to pay for treatment at a private hospital then I would be grateful if this could be referred to the Director of Health who is in fact the Registrar. The law on registration, however, does not provide for the details of registration or deregistration. The Director of Health is the authority for registering private hospitals. To be registered, a private hospital has to have accommodation, staffing, equipment and facilities appropriate to the services it intends to provide. Where it involves medical ethics, like refusing on humanitarian grounds to help with curing a human being, then I think it is a wider question than existing legislation. But if there are actual cases of this kind, I would like to be informed of them and take suitable action.
MR MARTIN BARROW: Mr Deputy President, could the Secretary advise whether or not she has specifically investigated the rather shocking allegations made in the original question and, if so, what the result was and whether she has reminded those offending hospitals, which do have a 24-hour emergency service, of the international code that she referred to?
1658 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 3 February 1993
SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE: Mr Deputy President, I am not aware of the details of the case referred to in the question. The question itself does say that several cases were reported in recent months. I do not know what these cases are; until I know of the cases to which the question refers, I will not be in a position to comment.
DR CONRAD LAM (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, given that some private hospitals do not have the suitable facilities and personnel to handle certain emergency cases, will the Secretary inform this Council of the steps the Administration will take to educate the public so that they will not go to these hospitals and waste their precious time in emergencies? Furthermore, will the Administration assist to upgrade these hospitals in terms of facilities and personnel so that they can also provide emergency treatment to the public?
SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE: Mr Deputy President, we are talking about registered private hospitals and maternity homes and nursing homes. They are private and they have their own policies to govern the way they operate. Whereas the communication between the Department of Health and the private hospitals is very good and there is also good co-operation in terms of sharing information on relevant statistics, I doubt very much we in the Government can compel a private hospital to provide the services which it is not prepared to provide. However, I can assure Dr LAM that information regarding where to take the emergency cases to is already extensively available, particularly in the public hospitals.
DR TANG SIU-TONG (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, many private hospitals refuse to treat or admit emergency patients involved in accidents or injuries that have legal implications. When a patient in a critical condition is taken to a private hospital with 24- hour emergency service, should the hospital give some emergency care before referring the patient to a public hospital? If not, does this go against the law or medical ethics?
SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE: Mr Deputy President, the question itself impinges on a hypothetical situation. I can only refer to my main answer which states that, according to international medical ethics, every practitioner has the duty to perform emergency care in order to save life unless he is assured that there are other places which can provide better service. So I would think that this is a matter of professional judgement. I doubt very much that in the Hong Kong situation a medical professional would simply let a patient die in the street or anywhere else in order to wait for the right ambulance to come to take the patient away. I think the question itself may be hypothetical but I would like to know the details if such a case does emerge.
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 3 February 1993 1659 Written answers to questions
Street names
7. MR JAMES TO asked (in Chinese): Will the Government inform this Council:
(a) whether there are plans to change the names of streets which have colonial implications (such as Queen's Road) before 1997; and
(b) if so, the time schedule for introducing the change and what new names will be adopted?
SECRETARY FOR CONSTITUTIONAL AFFAIRS: The Government does not have plans to change street names which have colonial implications before 1997. Whether street names are changed after 1997 will be a matter for the Special Administrative Region Government.
Alleged biased or slanderous programmes on RTHK
8. MR CHIM PUI-CHUNG asked (in Chinese): Will the Government inform this Council of the following:
(a) whether the Radio Television Hong Kong (RTHK) has drawn up a code of practice to guard against the inclusion in its programmes of material or comments which are biased towards certain people or organizations, and to guard against the programmes being used as political propaganda or slanders;
(b) the number of complaints received by RTHK in the past three years with regard to the inclusion in its programmes of material or comments which are biased or slanderous in nature, and how such complaints were handled by RTHK;
(c) the number of lawsuits in which RTHK was involved over allegations of slanderous contents and comments during the same period, and the amount of public funds incurred?
1660 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 3 February 1993
SECRETARY FOR RECREATION AND CULTURE: Mr Deputy President, I shall deal with the points raised in Mr CHIM's question in the order as set out.
(a) Radio Television Hong Kong (RTHK) does not have a code of practice governing its editorial policy. This would be too rigid and would not provide sufficient flexibility to meet with rapidly changing circumstances.
The Director of Broadcasting is responsible for ensuring that a system of editorial control exists which results in fair, balanced and objective public affairs and news programmes being produced by RTHK.
The day-to-day editorial process operated by the Director and her senior programming staff, which includes a whole series of structured meetings and discussions amongst editorial staff, is sufficiently clear in itself in guarding against bias towards certain people or organizations and in preventing programmes from being used for political propaganda or slander.
There is, however, no absolute guarantee that the line may not be crossed, especially with "live" programmes where listeners' phone-in segments are involved. In these programmes there is a need to strike a balance between letting the caller speak his mind, challenging unfair comments and stopping altogether any slanderous statements. The handling of such programmes is a subject which is closely watched by, and regularly discussed amongst, editorial staff in RTHK.
I consider that programme production in RTHK is suitably supervised under existing working procedures, and programme contents are adequately monitored and reviewed in editorial meetings to guard against programmes from being biased and from being used for political propaganda or slander.
(b) During the past three years, RTHK has received four complaints against its TV programmes and 10 against its radio programmes with regard to being biased or slanderous in nature.
These complaints have been thoroughly examined by the section or division heads in the programme production divisions. Where necessary, discussions have been held with staff concerned, and directives issued to prevent similar occurrences in future. Written replies have been given to complainants where possible.
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 3 February 1993 1661
(c) Over the same period, there has been no lawsuit involving RTHK programmes for alleged slander. There were, however, two cases where complainants, through their solicitors, claimed that statements made in RTHK radio programmes had caused them embarrassment and had damaged their reputation. Both cases were settled with the assistance of the Legal Department, without resorting to litigation. In one case, the Government paid the complainant's legal fees of $15,000. No other expenditure of public funds has been incurred.
Profits tax on Hong Kong dollar deposit interest income
9. MR DAVID LI asked: Will the Administration inform this Council whether it will eliminate profits tax currently payable by Hong Kong companies on Hong Kong dollar deposit interest?
SECRETARY FOR THE TREASURY: Hong Kong dollar deposit interest received by companies carrying on a trade, profession or business in Hong Kong is chargeable to profits tax because it is derived from Hong Kong. This interest is, in substance, no different from any other income which such companies derive from their businesses in Hong Kong and which is subject to profits tax.
It is a fundamental principle of our taxation system that income which has a source in Hong Kong is taxable, and that exemptions are only provided in exceptional cases, where there are over-riding policy considerations. This approach allows us to collect tax efficiently and at a relatively low cost when compared to other tax jurisdictions.
To exempt Hong Kong dollar deposit interest income payable to Hong Kong companies from profits tax would not only breach this important policy principle but would also have significant revenue implications. At present, therefore, we have no intention of eliminating profits tax on this interest.
Industrial accidents on construction sites
10. MR LAU CHIN-SHEK asked (in Chinese): As the rate of industrial accidents is the highest in the construction industry, will the Government inform this Council of the names of the ten construction companies with the highest numbers of industrial accidents on construction sites in the past three years, and
1662 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 3 February 1993
the respective number of industrial accidents involving these construction companies in each of the past three years?
SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION AND MANPOWER: Mr Deputy President, the Labour Department collates and analyses information on construction site accidents by cause for the purpose of prevention. It does not, however, compile statistics on such accidents by reference to individual companies. Such statistics would not, in any case, provide reliable indicators of the safety performance of individual companies for the following reasons:
(a) they would be biased against construction companies with a large number of sites and employees;
(b) they would not be comprehensive since, under the Employees Compensation Ordinance, an employer is not required to report an occupational accident if the injury results in temporary incapacity of less than four days; and
(c) an industrial accident occurring on a construction site may be reported by the principal contractor or one of its subcontractors according to different agreements or contracts between the parties.
Prosecutions against taxi drivers
11. MRS MIRIAM LAU asked: In view of the increasing number of complaints against taxi drivers over the past few years, will the Administration inform this Council of:
(a) the number of taxi drivers prosecuted over the past three years, with a breakdown by year and by type of offence;
(b) the average conviction rate in respect of those prosecutions; and (c) the average penalties imposed in respect of each type of offence?
SECRETARY FOR TRANSPORT: Mr Deputy President, the number of taxi drivers prosecuted for taxi malpractices, the average conviction rate and the average penalties imposed in the past three years are set out in tables A and B attached.
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 3 February 1993 1663
As some of the cases for 1992 are still being processed, the data for that year in table B are provisional.
Table A
Taxi Driver Offences — Prosecutions by Fixed Penalty Tickets
($200 per ticket)
1990 1991 1992
% of % of % of
Type of offence Tickets issued
tickets paid
Tickets issued
tickets paid
Tickets issued
tickets paid
Taxi driver not moving forward at taxi stand
Taxi driver at stand accepting fare out of turn
Not setting
taximeter to
recording
position
58 98.9% 34 98.9% 117 98.7% 112 98.9% 121 98.9% 301 98.7% 26 98.9% 33 98.9% 8 98.7%
Total 196 98.9% 188 98.9% 426 98.7%
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 3 February 1993
Nupr
Including offences such as failure to display fare card/registration number, failure to display the taximeter w
1664
Taxi Driver Offences — Prosecutions by Summons and Arrests
19911990
Average Conviction Number of Average Conviction Number of Type of offence
fine
rate
prosecutions fine
rate
prosecutions
$600 40.0% 15 $627 100.0%2
Soliciting
passengers
$596 74.9%
231 $570 82.5% 206
Refusing hire
$625 90.6% 32 $438 100.0%17Refusing to drive to
destination
$492 98.2% 55 $355 74.4%43Failing to drive to
destination by the
most direct route
$735 80.0% 30 $495 73.1% 26
Overcharging
$467 100.0% 148 $331 100.0% 96Taximeter offences
$256 100.0% 42 $240 100.0%85Stopping elsewhere
than at taxi stand
$268 100.0% 43 $268 100.0%14
Taxi displaying an
unauthorized sign
$451 76.9% 52 $397 100.0%41
Behaving in an
other than civil or
orderly manner
$296 80.0% 30 $400 80.0% 55
Others*
$490 86.0%
678 $416 88.9% 585
Total/Average
*
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 3 February 1993 1665 Constitutional proposals by the Governor
12. MR HOWARD YOUNG asked: Regarding the Governor's constitutional proposals outlined in the policy address on 7 October 1992, will the Government inform this Council:
(a) what specific Ordinances need to be amended and whether any new Ordinances need to be introduced in order to implement the proposals; and
(b) whether any of the proposals can be implemented without legislative amendments?
SECRETARY FOR CONSTITUTIONAL AFFAIRS: Mr Deputy President, on 7 October 1992, the Governor announced in his policy address the following constitutional proposals:
(i) lowering of voting age from 21 to 18;
(ii) single-vote, single-seat system for geographical constituency elections;
(iii) replacement of all forms of corporate voting by individual voting in functional constituency elections, and creation of nine new functional constituencies which include all working people;
(iv) abolition of appointed seats and increase in elected seats in Urban Council and Regional Council;
(v) abolition of appointed seats and increase in elected seats in District Boards;
(vi) establishment of a Boundary and Election Commission to make recommendations on geographical constituency boundaries and to oversee the conduct of elections; and
(vii) establishment of an Election Committee to elect up to 10 Legislative Council Members.
The lowering of voting age and the adoption of a single-vote, single-seat system for geographical constituency elections will require amendments to the Electoral Provisions Ordinance (Cap 367). The proposals relating to the functional constituency system will require amendments to the Legislative Council (Electoral Provisions) Ordinance (Cap 381). The proposed changes in the membership of the Urban Council, Regional Council and District Boards will require amendments to the Urban Council Ordinance (Cap 101), the Regional Council Ordinance (Cap 385), the District Boards Ordinance
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(Cap 366) and the Electoral Provisions Ordinance. The proposed Election Committee will require amendments to both the Electoral Provisions Ordinance and the Legislative Council (Electoral Provisions) Ordinance. Amendments to various items of subsidiary legislation, and the enactment of new subsidiary legislation, will also be necessary in due course to set out detailed regulations.
As for the Boundary and Election Commission, its establishment will require new legislation as well as consequential amendments to the Electoral Provisions Ordinance, the Legislative Council (Electoral Provisions) Ordinance, the Urban Council Ordinance, the Regional Council Ordinance, the District Boards Ordinance, the Prevention of Bribery Ordinance (Cap 201), and the Corrupt and Illegal Practices Ordinance (Cap 288). It will also require new subsidiary legislation setting out detailed regulations under which the Commission will operate, and will entail amendments to five items of subsidiary legislation.
As shown in the second and third paragraphs above, the various constitutional proposals all require legislation for implementation.
Smoking in no-smoking areas
13. MR HENRY TANG asked: Will the Government inform this Council:
(a) of the number of persons prosecuted for smoking in designated no-smoking areas in public places and in public transport carriers since the enactment of the Smoking (Public Health) (Amendment) Ordinance 1992;
(b) whether difficulties have been encountered by managers of no-smoking areas and drivers or others in charge of public transport carriers in stopping people from smoking in such areas and in such public transport carriers; and
(c) whether there are plans to prohibit smoking in all public waiting areas?
SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE: Following the making of the Smoking (Public Health) (Amendment) Ordinance, public transport operators and managers of areas that have been designated as no smoking areas have been given a six-month grace period to display no smoking signs in their vehicles and premises. The grace period expired on 1 August 1992 and the provisions in the Ordinance are now enforceable. According to information from public transport operators, only one case has had to be referred to the police for prosecution during the period from August to December 1992. Enforcement statistics from managers of designated no smoking areas are expected by March 1993.
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 3 February 1993 1667
The law empowers managements to enforce smoking prohibition in their premises and vehicles. So far, only one public transport operator has informed me of difficulties in enforcing the new provisions, largely because of hostile response from some unco-operative smokers. Other operators have reported no major problems, as most passengers are well aware of, and respect, the prohibition on smoking in public transport.
Smoking is already prohibited in public areas in government offices, including leased premises. Whether we prohibit smoking in additional public enclosed places is currently being examined.
I should point out that enforcement is not the only focus of the Government's package of measures to discourage smoking, particularly amongst the young. Emphasis has always been on public education to inform people of the health risks of smoking and to discourage them from smoking or to encourage them to quit. Notwithstanding this, we are now examining proposals for further anti-smoking measures as a result of recent extensive public consultation.
Chemical Waste Treatment Plant at Tsing Yi
14. DR SAMUEL WONG asked: As the Chemical Waste Treatment Plant at Tsing Yi has recently been completed and will be put into operation soon, will the Government inform this Council:
(a) of the final total construction cost of this facility;
(b) of the estimated operating cost per year for the next four years; and
(c) whether the Government has a policy to recover the capital cost and operating cost of this treatment facility, and if yes, how?
SECRETARY FOR PLANNING, ENVIRONMENT AND LANDS: Mr Deputy President,
(a) In accordance with the terms of the contract between the Government and the Contractor, Enviropace, the capital cost of the CWTF will be repaid by the Government in 60 equal monthly instalments over the first five years of the facility's operation. These payments will total $1.296 billion.
(b) The annual operating cost in the first four years (1993-94 to 1996-97) is estimated to be $242 million.
1668 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 3 February 1993
This estimate, at 1992 prices, is made on the basis of information available on the quantities of chemical waste arising and likely waste intake projections. The exact fees payable to the contractor will depend on the type and quantity of waste actually received and treated at the CWTF. The fees will be calculated according to an agreed schedule of rates which will be adjusted according to the CPI (B).
(c) A charging scheme to recover the capital cost and operating expenses of the CWTF will be established. A consultancy study to examine the feasibility of various charging methods is due to be completed in March this year. Thereafter recommendations on the way forward will be made to the Governor in Council and any legislative changes which may be required will be considered.
The United Kingdom's moral obligations towards Hong Kong after 1997
15. DR CONRAD LAM asked (in Chinese): As Britain will no longer have sovereignty over Hong Kong after 30 June 1997, will the Government inform this Council of the specific meaning of Britain's moral obligations towards the people of Hong Kong after 30 June 1997, and the various measures which would be taken by the Government to ensure that the British Government fulfills such obligations?
SECRETARY FOR CONSTITUTIONAL AFFAIRS: Mr Deputy President, Britain's principal obligation with respect to Hong Kong after 1997 will be to ensure that the Joint Declaration is fully and faithfully implemented. As a party to the Joint Declaration the Government of the United Kingdom will be entitled to take up with the PRC any questions it may have in relation to the rights and obligations contained in the Joint Declaration. Moreover, in accordance with paragraph 8 of Annex II of the Joint Declaration, the Joint Liaison Group shall continue its work until 1 January 2000.
Complaints against schools about textbooks
16. MR ERIC LI asked (in Chinese): Will the Government inform this Council:
(a) whether it has received, in the past five years, any complaints against schools for requiring pupils to use textbooks compiled for pupils at a different level (for example, textbooks compiled for Primary II being used in Primary I); if so, what is the number of such complaints in each year and the subjects involved;
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 3 February 1993 1669
(b) how such complaints are handled and what action is taken against those schools which are the subject of repeated complaints; and
(c) what measures will be taken to ensure that schools will use textbooks which are suitable for use at the specified level?
SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION AND MANPOWER: Mr Deputy President, the answers to Mr LI's questions are as follows:
(a) In the past five years, the Education Department has not received any complaints against schools requiring pupils to use textbooks compiled for a different level.
(b) If the Education Department receives any such complaints, it will check the textbook list of the school concerned to find out whether books of an unsuitable level have been formally adopted by the school. Education Department inspectors will also visit the school to check whether unsuitable books have been used by teachers in practice, even though they may not have been included formally in the school's textbook list. If the complaint is substantiated, the school would be asked to stop using the unsuitable books. If such requests are ignored repeatedly, the school management would be guilty of an offence under Regulation 92(8) of the Education Regulations and be liable upon conviction to a fine of $5,000 and to imprisonment for one year.
(c) The Education Department regularly issues Recommended Textbook Lists which provide a range of choices of textbooks suitable for each level of education. Schools are advised to select textbooks from these lists and those which choose books outside them are normally required to justify their choice. If the justifications are deemed insufficient, the school will be required to cease using the textbooks in question. In addition, Education Department inspectors visit schools regularly to inspect teachers' work, observe lessons and offer advice on curriculum and teaching. Through these visits, schools using unsuitable textbooks can be identified and measures taken to rectify the situation.
Private sector developments within country park areas
17. MR JIMMY McGREGOR asked: Will the Government inform this Council of all the proposals now under consideration for major private sector developments within the country park areas and whether it will consider consulting this Council before any of the proposals are approved?
1670 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 3 February 1993
SECRETARY FOR PLANNING, ENVIRONMENT AND LANDS: Mr Deputy President, no major private sector developments are under consideration within the country park areas at present. Most proposals for development within country parks are for public projects involving utilities or roads. Private development proposals mainly involve small village houses on leased land.
Teachers holding Commonwealth degress
18. MR TIK CHI-YUEN asked (in Chinese): Will the Government provide this Council with the following data for each of the years from 1988 to 1992:
(a) the number of non-graduate teachers who became graduate teachers after acquiring recognized degrees awarded in Commonwealth countries;
(b) the number of primary school teachers holding Bachelor degrees in education awarded in Commonwealth countries;
(c) the number of primary and secondary school teachers with non-standard qualifications, with a breakdown by age groups and districts; and on a district basis, the percentages of such teachers as against the total number of primary and secondary school teachers?
SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION AND MANPOWER: Mr Deputy President, the collection of data on teacher qualifications began with the annual Teacher Survey in 1989. The survey takes stock of the teaching force in the public sector (that is, government, aided, CAPUT and Bought Place schools) in October of every year and reports on its findings in March of the following year. Statistics on teachers are now available for the school years beginning in 1989, 1990 and 1991, but not 1992 (as compilation of date is still in progress) or before 1989 (when data first started to be collated).
Bearing in mind these limitations, the answers to Mr TIK's question are as follows:
(a) Of 11 229 graduate teachers serving in secondary schools in October 1991 and holding a Commonwealth degree, 434 served as non-graduate teachers in October 1989 or October 1990.
(b) In 1989, 1990 and 1991, there were, respectively, 303, 321 and 399 holders of Commonwealth degrees amongst primary school teachers. No information is available on whether these degrees are in education.
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 3 February 1993 1671
(c) Over the three years for which statistics are available, the numbers of primary and secondary school teachers with non-standard qualifications were:
1989 1990 1991
Primary 1 431 1 604 1 334
Secondary 875 1 483 988
Their age distribution is at Annex A. Their location and proportion to the total number of teachers are at Annex B.
Annex A
Age Group No. of teachers with non-standard qualifications
Primary Secondary
1989 1990 1991 1989 1990 1991 16-19 1 9 0 1 0 0 20-24 130 171 101 51 177 42 25-29 302 390 265 157 370 208 30-34 332 323 263 132 234 178 35-39 212 210 206 235 176 144 40-44 134 161 152 110 155 139 45-49 98 103 105 98 105 79 50-54 148 137 125 127 175 116 55 and above 74 10 117 64 91 82
Total 1 431 1 604 1 334 875 1 483 988
1672 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 3 February 1993 Annex B
Number of teachers with Non-standard qualification
(as percentage of total number of teachers)
District 1989 Primary 1990 1991 1989 Secondary
1991
1990
Central and Western
26 (4.81) 31 (5.90) 24 (4.68) 49 (13.54) 62 (17.17) 31 (11.23)
Wan Chai 22 (3.99) 23 (4.29) 15 (2.90) 80 (18.74) 130 (27.37) 72 (17.52) Eastern 48 (4.36) 42 (3.95) 36 (3.40) 74 (16.23) 76 (16.89) 62 (14.69) Southern 32 (4.64) 30 (4.60) 22 (3.53) 26 (12.87) 26 (13.27) 36 (15.32) Sham Shui Po 35 (3.86) 41 (4.70) 35 (4.08) 66 (16.46) 140 (27.03) 87 (18.05) Mong Kok 18 (3.28) 26 (4.82) 21 (4.00) 53 (33.13) 57 (33.33) 36 (24.66) Yau Tsim 18 (3.90) 21 (4.73) 26 (3.74) 21 (14.58) 34 (21.38) 22 (15.94) Kowloon City 44 (4.15) 38 (3.67) 35 (3.50) 107 (16.11) 165 (21.68) 105 (15.91) Wong Tai Sin 61 (5.03) 68 (5.79) 50 (4.62) 53 (11.16) 63 (13.02) 52 (11.61) Kwun Tong 88 (5.02) 100 (6.11) 80 (5.39) 62 (12.30) 211 (29.43) 103 (15.73) Tsuen Wan 44 (5.76) 45 (6.00) 41 (5.59) 10 (8.07) 22 (10.58) 25 (10.78) Tuen Mun 324 (17.70) 342 (19.10) 281 (15.70) 51 (9.22) 94 (14.83) 88 (13.27) Yuen Long 135 (14.02) 144 (14.75) 126 (12.84) 24 (8.02) 84 (27.45) 42 (14.14) North 106 (12.96) 120 (13.94) 98 (11.01) 29 (17.79) 62 (29.11) 43 (20.48) Tai Po 127 (14.38) 148 (16.67) 132 (13.94) 29 (13.06) 51 (19.69) 32 (11.05) Sha Tin 139 (7.97) 173 (9.69) 140 (7.87) 54 (10.44) 79 (13.17) 74 (11.16) Sai Kung 31 (10.16) 58 (15.26) 46 (10.41) 17 (18.28) 22 (20.37) 16 (15.69) Islands 44 (18.41) 47 (20.89) 37 (16.74) 8 (12.50) 9 (13.85) 7 (11.67) Kwai Tsing 89 (6.77) 107 (8.34) 99 (7.96) 54 (8.68) 96 (14.57) 55 (9.34)
Total 1 431 (8.09) 1 604 (9.21) 1 334 (7.79) 875 (13.41) 1 483 (20.19) 988 (14.20)
Medical services in North District
19. REV FUNG CHI-WOOD asked (in Chinese): Will the Government inform this Council:
(a) of the following in respect of North District in the past three years:
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 3 February 1993 1673
(i) the number of patients seeking treatment at the Accident and Emergency Department of local hospitals each year; the number of these patients subsequently transferred to other hospitals outside the district for treatment and the names of these hospitals; the average time taken for such transfers and whether treatment to patients had subsequently been delayed; and
(ii) the number of patients who had to stay in local hospitals for treatment each year; the number of these patients subsequently transferred to other hospitals outside the district for hospitalization and the names of the hospitals admitting these patients;
(b) what measures can be taken to avoid having to transfer patients to hospitals outside North District for treatment and hospitalization;
(c) whether any study has been conducted to see if the provision of medical services in North District would be adequate to meet the need of the local population by 1999; if so, what the findings of the study are; and
(d) whether the Administration would agree to the two points made in the Hospital Authority's proposal that a North District Hospital should be built and completed by 1998-99; if so, when funds will be sought from the Finance Committee?
SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE: Mr Deputy President, the number of attendances at the Accident and Emergency Department of Fanling Hospital are as follows:
Year Attendance
1990 43 683
1991 47 222
1992 51 279
A total of 6 653 cases were referred to other hospitals in the year 1992, mainly to Prince of Wales Hospital. The travelling time from Fanling Hospital to Prince of Wales Hospital by ambulance is about 20 minutes, which is comparable to worldwide standards for similar transfers.
The total number of patients treated in Fanling Hospital and those transferred to other hospitals are as follows:
1674 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 3 February 1993
Year Patients treated
Patients
transferred
1990 1 441 268
1991 1 253 322
1992 1 404 513
These inter-hospital transfers are mainly convalescent cases originally referred to Fanling Hospital from Prince of Wales Hospital.
The Hospital Authority has conducted a review on the demand and supply of hospital beds in Hong Kong up to the year 2000. The New Territories is considered as a region for the purpose of planning general hospital beds. Infirmary and psychiatric beds are planned on a territory-wide basis. Taking into account projects in the pipeline, there will be an estimated shortfall of general beds in the region. On this basis, the Authority has proposed that North District Hospital with 600 general beds should be built. This proposal is under active consideration by the Administration and an announcement will be made as soon as possible.
Rehousing for bedspace apartment lodgers
20. MR MAN SAI-CHEONG asked (in Chinese): Following a blaze in bedspace apartments in Sham Shui Po on Christmas Eve in 1990, the former Secretary for Home Affairs promised that the Government would rehouse all bedspace apartment lodgers and introduce legislation to control bedspace apartments in two years. Will the Government inform this Council of:
(a) the existing number of bedspace apartment lodgers as compared with that in December 1990;
(b) the number of lodgers who are on the waiting list for singleton hostel accommodation;
(c) the number of lodgers who were allocated singleton hostel accommodation in 1991 and 1992;
(d) the reasons why the promise made two years ago has not yet been fulfilled; (e) the anticipated supply of hostel places for lodgers in the next two years; and
(f) the target dates for the completion of the decantation exercise and for the introduction of legislation to control bedspace apartments?
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 3 February 1993 1675
SECRETARY FOR HOME AFFAIRS: Mr Deputy President, before I reply to questions (a) to (f), I wish to clarify the terms of the Government's undertaking in respect of bedspace apartment lodgers. The Government undertook two years ago (i) to introduce legislation to license bedspace apartments to regulate their fire and structural safety; (ii) to introduce fire and structural safety standards which might result in lowering the occupancy rate of some bedspace apartments; and (iii) that no bedspace apartment lodgers would be rendered homeless due to licensing. There was no promise to rehouse all bedspace apartment lodgers.
The answers to the Honourable Member's questions are as follows:
(a) According to government records, in December 1990 there were about 4 000 bedspace apartment lodgers. At present, there are about 4 100.
(b) There is no bedspace apartment lodger on the waiting list for singleton hostel accommodation. Our present capacity is able to meet all the current demand.
(c) In 1991 and 1992, 15 and 60 bedspace apartment lodgers respectively were allocated singleton hostel accommodation.
(d) Regarding the Government's undertaking made two years ago (please refer to the first paragraph above), (i) a Bill on bedspace apartments is being drafted and, subject to the advice of the Executive Council, we plan to introduce it to the Legislative Council during the current Session; (ii) it was estimated in 1991 that about 50% (2 000) of the bedspace apartment lodgers might be displaced. However, recent sample surveys have revealed that the bedspace apartments would need to displace less than 50% of the lodgers in order to be licensable. The exact demand will be known when detailed inspections of individual bedspace apartments are completed; and (iii) the City and New Territories Administration has been acquiring and will continue to acquire suitable flats for use as singleton hostels to accommodate those bedspace apartment lodgers who will be displaced.
(e) For the past two years, we have been building up a stock of singleton hostels. At present, these hostels have a combined capacity for about 160 lodgers. We will continue to acquire suitable flats for use as singleton hostels according to demand.
(f) It is anticipated that by the end of 1995, all bedspace apartments will operate under licences and that all the displaced lodgers will be accommodated in alternative housing. As regards the timing for legislation, please see my reply to (d) above.
1676 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 3 February 1993 Motion
BUSINESS REGISTRATION ORDINANCE
THE SECRETARY FOR THE TREASURY moved the following motion:
"That with effect from 1 March 1993 the Schedule to the Business Registration Ordinance be amended -
(a) by repealing item 1(i) and substituting -
"(i) on or after 1 April 1990 and
before 1 March 1993 ………………… $900 7
(j) on or after 1 March 1993 ………….. $1,000 7";
(b) in item 4(a) by repealing "$15" and substituting "$60";
(c) in item 4(b) by repealing "$50" and substituting "$150"; and
(d) in item 5 by repealing "$15" and substituting "$60"."
He said: Mr Deputy President, I move the resolution standing in my name on the Order Paper.
The schedule to the Business Registration Ordinance (Cap. 310) specifies various fees and penalties payable under the Ordinance. The registration fee in respect of a branch of business was introduced in 1984 and has not been revised since then. The main business registration fee was last revised in 1990. I now propose to revise them in line with the increases in costs since they were last introduced or reviewed.
I also propose to increase the penalties for non-payment of business registration fees and branch registration fees. These penalties have been kept at their present level since 1975 and 1984 respectively. To preserve the deterrent effect, I recommend that the penalties should be increased from $50 and $15 to $150 and $60 respectively.
The increases, if approved, will take effect on 1 March 1993. Additional revenue is estimated at $68 million a year.
Mr Deputy President, I beg to move.
Question on the motion proposed, put and agreed to.
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 3 February 1993 1677 First Reading of Bills
PROTECTION OF WAGES ON INSOLVENCY (AMENDMENT) BILL 1993 OZONE LAYER PROTECTION (AMENDMENT) BILL 1993
Bills read the First time and ordered to be set down for Second Reading pursuant to Standing Order 41(3).
Second Reading of Bills
PROTECTION OF WAGES ON INSOLVENCY (AMENDMENT) BILL 1993
THE SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION AND MANPOWER moved the Second Reading of: "A Bill to amend the Protection of Wages on Insolvency Ordinance."
He said: Mr Deputy President, I move that the Protection of Wages on Insolvency (Amendment) Bill 1993 be read a Second time.
The Bill seeks to raise the maximum limit on the amount of ex gratia payment which may be made from the Protection of Wages on Insolvency Fund in respect of arrears of wages and wages in lieu of notice. The aim is to provide better protection to employees in situations where their employers have become insolvent.
The Protection of Wages on Insolvency Fund is currently financed by a levy of $250 a year on each business registration certificate. It provides for the following ex gratia payments to an employee if his employer has become insolvent:
(a) arrears of wages up to $8,000;
(b) wages in lieu of notice up to seven days' wages or $2,000 whichever is the less; and
(c) severance payment up to $8,000, plus 50% of the applicant's entitlement in excess of $8,000.
The present maximum limits on payments in respect of arrears of wages and wages in lieu of notice have not been revised since 1985 and 1987 respectively. The statistics for 1991-92 revealed that 35% of applicants for arrears of wages, and 53% of those for wages in lieu of notice, could not recover their full entitlements because they exceeded the maximum limits.
1678 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 3 February 1993
To improve the situation, we propose to raise the maximum ex gratia payment in respect of arrears of wages from $8,000 to $18,000 per applicant; and that in respect of wages in lieu of notice from seven days' wages up to $2,000 to one month's wages up to $6,000.
With these amendments, over 90% of applicants for arrears of wages would be able to recover their full entitlements. As regards wages in lieu of notice, the revision would increase the coverage substantially although we cannot ascertain the extent of the increase at this stage. The proposal would not involve any increase in levy as the existing level of levy would be sufficient to cover the increased payments from the Fund.
We are also taking this opportunity to introduce two technical amendments. At present, the procedure for adjusting the payment ceiling on arrears of wages involves an amendment to the principal Ordinance. We propose to simplify this procedure by providing for future adjustments to be made by resolution of this Council.
Secondly, "wages" and "wages in lieu of notice" are currently defined in the principal Ordinance by reference to the preferential limits in the Companies Ordinance and the Bankruptcy Ordinance. As the revised limits of ex gratia payments exceed those preferential limits, these definitions should be amended.
Bill referred to the House Committee pursuant to Standing Order 42(3A).
OZONE LAYER PROTECTION (AMENDMENT) BILL 1993
THE SECRETARY FOR PLANNING, ENVIRONMENT AND LANDS moved the Second Reading of: "A Bill to amend the Ozone Layer Protection Ordinance."
He said: Mr Deputy President, I move that the Ozone Layer Protection (Amendment) Bill 1993 be read the Second time.
The Ozone Layer Protection Ordinance was enacted in June 1989. It enables Hong Kong to meet its international obligations under the 1987 Montreal Protocol on Substances that Deplete the Ozone Layer. The Ordinance provides for the control of the import and export of ozone depleting substances controlled under the Protocol, as well as the prohibition of their manufacture in Hong Kong.
As Members are aware, the situation as regards the ozone layer has worsened. Since 1987, the Parties to the Protocol have therefore met several times to tighten control over ozone depleting substances further.
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 3 February 1993 1679
At the Second Meeting held in London in June 1990, the Parties to the Protocol adopted an accelerated phasing out programme for the substances controlled under the Protocol.
At the Third Meeting held in Nairobi in June 1991, a list of products containing CFCs (chlorofluorocarbons) and halons was agreed. Under the Protocol, the import from Non Parties of any products on this list will be banned as from 27 May 1993.
The Parties to the Protocol met again in Copenhagen in November 1992 and decided that the phasing out of halon consumption should be accelerated to 1 January 1994, and that the consumption of CFCs, carbon tetrachloride and methyl chloroform should be phased out by 1 January 1996.
To meet the requirements now set by the Protocol, the Ordinance should be amended to provide for additional measures to protect the ozone layer and to prepare for the consequences of the new measures agreed by the Parties to the Protocol.
Clause 5 of the Bill will extend the regulation-making power of the Governor in Council to enable greater control on the use of scheduled substances. The Governor in Council will be authorized to make Regulations to enable the Director of Environmental Protection to declare a scheduled substance to be a controlled refrigerant, to determine if a territory complies with the requirements of the Montreal Protocol, to approve the type of equipment to be used for recovering or recycling a scheduled substance, and to specify the manner in which such equipment is to be used.
Two regulations will need to be made under section 16 of the Ordinance.
The Ozone Layer Protection (Controlled Refrigerants) Regulation will prohibit the release into the atmosphere of controlled refrigerants used in large-scale installations and in motor vehicles. To conserve these scheduled substances, the Regulation will require that in recovery and recycling, approved equipment must be used. It will also require that, during the servicing, repair or decommissioning of refrigeration equipment, records of the controlled refrigerants be kept.
The Ozone Layer Protection (Products Containing Scheduled Substances) (Import Banning) Regulation will further assist Hong Kong to meet its international obligations under the Protocol. This will be achieved by prohibiting the import of controlled products from a territory which is not a party to the Protocol, unless the Director of Environmental Protection determines that the territory is in compliance with the relevant requirements of the Protocol. This Regulation will take effect on 27 May 1993 to ensure compliance with the Protocol's requirements.
1680 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 3 February 1993
The Environmental Pollution Advisory Committee has given its support to the proposed legislation, as have green groups. No adverse comments have been received from the major trade and industrial associations or the importers and exporters of the scheduled substances, who have also been consulted on the proposed controls.
As Hong Kong is covered by the United Kingdom's ratification of the Protocol, and as a part of the international community, Hong Kong is required to meet the requirements set down by the Parties to the Protocol. Failure to meet these requirements would result in Hong Kong being barred from trading in the scheduled substances and products containing them with other members of the Protocol. The Bill and the proposed Regulations are necessary to enable Hong Kong to continue to comply with its obligations under the Protocol.
Thank you, Mr Deputy President.
Bill referred to the House Committee pursuant to Standing Order 42(3A).
Members' motions
HONG KONG ROYAL INSTRUCTIONS 1917 TO 1991
MRS ELSIE TU moved the following motion:
"That with effect from 5 February 1993 the Standing Orders of the Legislative Council of Hong Kong be amended -
(1) in Standing Order No. 27(5), by repealing "A Member, other than a Member moving a motion or" and substituting "Subject to Standing Order No. 27A, a Member other than";
(2) by adding -
"27A. Recommendations of House Committee as to time of Speaking
(1) In relation to any motion or amendment to a motion (other
than a motion or amendment to a motion on a Bill) to be moved at a sitting of the Council, whether or not the motion or amendment has at the time been placed on the Order Paper, the House Committee may recommend -
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 3 February 1993 1681
(a) that the mover of the motion should not speak for
more than a specified number of minutes (such period
to be inclusive of any speech in reply under Standing
Order No. 28(3));
(b) that the mover of an amendment to the motion should
not speak for more than a specified number of minutes;
and
(c) that other Members (except ex officio Members) each
should not speak for more than a specified number of
minutes.
(2) Where the House Committee so recommends under
paragraph (1) the Chairman shall cause the President to be notified in writing of the Committee's recommendations.
(3) Any recommendations of the House Committee under
paragraph (1), if accepted by the President (in which event he shall so inform Members as soon as practicable prior to calling upon the Member to move the motion), shall be binding upon all Members other than ex officio Members and the President shall direct any Member speaking in excess of the recommended specified time to discontinue his speech."."
MRS ELSIE TU: Mr Deputy President, I move the motion standing in my name on the Order Paper.
In the 1991-92 Legislative Council Session, we completed a series of reviews on procedural matters in relation to Legislative Council business with a view to enhancing the efficiency of the Council. As a result of the reviews, amendments have been made to the relevant Standing Orders, and in addition a set of House Rules has been drawn up as self disciplinary guidelines. These guidelines have so far been well observed and pretty successful in achieving better management of the question time and motion debates held in the Council. With Members' co-operation to limit the length of their speeches, we have been able to keep our motion debates within a reasonable duration between two to three hours.
As a further step to ensure better control of the duration of motion debates at sittings, the House Committee has agreed that the Deputy President, or in future, the President, should be given proper authority under Standing Orders to limit the time of Members' speeches, taking into account the
1682 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 3 February 1993
recommendation of the House Committee. To effect the House Committee's decision, I now propose to amend Standing Order 27 of the Legislative Council.
Mr Deputy President, I beg to move.
Question on the motion proposed, put and agreed to.
KINDERGARTEN EDUCATION
DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Before we proceed to the motion debate on kindergarten education, I would just remind Members of the decision of the House Committee, which does not as yet have the force of law, that the normal rule will apply to this debate, which is that the mover of the motion will have 15 minutes for his speech including reply and other Members will have seven minutes.
MR CHEUNG MAN-KWONG moved the following motion:
"Since kindergarten education is of vital importance to the development and growth of young children, this Council urges the Government to increase its commitment to kindergarten education, including expanding the fee remission scheme, subsidizing kindergarten teachers' remuneration, and bringing kindergartens into the scope of subsidized education eventually, so as to improve the quality of kindergarten education and afford fuller attention to young children."
MR CHEUNG MAN-KWONG (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, basic education is the most neglected part of Hong Kong's education system. Within basic education, kindergarten education is the most neglected element, having never received proper help, not even the least attention, from the Government. It is just like an abandoned child. During 1991-92, total government spending on kindergartens amounted to some $120 million and accounted for a mere 1% of the education budget. The Government's annual funding for kindergarten education increased by only 0.1% over three years. We can thus see the paucity of funding for, and the wretched conditions in, Hong Kong's kindergartens, which hire 8 000 teachers and provide an essential phase of education to 200 000 children. This is indeed the biggest flaw of, and a disgrace to, Hong Kong's education system.
Even more than the drastic funding shortage, the quality of kindergarten education is a cause for concern. Mr Deputy President, traditional Chinese thinking, even in modern-day Hong Kong, sets much value on education and holds it to be of paramount importance. There is more. Hong Kong families, who have been emphasizing fewer but better children, now expect education to do more to prepare their young ones for the useful lives that they will lead. Primary, secondary and tertiary education in Hong Kong are all subsidized by
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 3 February 1993 1683
the Government and so their quality has improved steadily. Yet, despite the extreme importance of kindergarten education as the young child's first initiation into the world of learning, the Government is giving it no subsidy at all but is treating it with indifference and letting it drift on its own. This drastically inhibits the qualitative improvement of kindergarten education, contrary to the wishes of parents and of the community as a whole. It must change.
Three major contradictions are found in Hong Kong's kindergarten education at the present time.
The first is the extremely expensive tuition fees that parents have to pay. Parents have to pay out of their own pockets because the Government does not subsidize kindergarten education. For each child going to a non-profit-making kindergarten, the parents last year paid about $4,000 or $8,000 in tuition on average, depending on whether it was a half-day or a whole-day kindergarten. Kindergarten tuition was thus a heavy expense for the family. Among the nearly 200 000 children in kindergartens, only a pathetic 10 000, or about 6% of the total, were eligible for partial or full financial assistance.
Mr Deputy President, a major explanation as to why kindergarten education is not receiving government subsidies is the Government's insistence that it is non-essential. Such government thinking is wrong in theory as well as in practice. Many psychologists and educators are of the view that if a child is given sound and proper education plus appropriate exposure during early childhood when development is at its fastest, it will enhance the child's self-confidence and sense of achievement and lay a solid foundation for subsequent development. From a practical angle, 99% of Hong Kong's children in the relevant age group are going to either kindergartens or child care centres. Those who are left out of this phase of education will simply be unable to cope with life as primary school students later on. The Government, in stressing that kindergarten education is non-essential and in consequently refusing to subsidize it, is either acting out of ignorance or trying to dodge its responsibility. The Government is acting like an ostrich that buries its head in the sand and pretends that the problem, which it does not see, does not exist. The Government is ignoring the pleas of the community as well as the cries of kindergarten teachers.
The second contradiction is the extremely shameful pay of kindergarten teachers. Because tuition is so expensive, parents have to be choosy. In considering their choice of a kindergarten for their children, many parents give overwhelming weight to how much it charges for tuition. As a result, kindergartens are afraid to raise tuition fees sharply. They are afraid that fee increases, though needed to improve teachers' pay, will scare away many pupils. The only way for the under-funded kindergartens to survive is to keep their teachers' pay low. Half of the kindergarten teachers are now paid less than the amount specified by the Government. Some are paid just a little over $3,000 a month. Mr Deputy President, how can kindergarten teachers live on such
1684 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 3 February 1993
meagre income? How can they hide the strains of day-to-day survival even as they keep cheerful smiles on their faces and go about teaching children how to draw the rainbow that the children see in their mind's eye?
Mr Deputy President, I will never forget what happened around me once upon a time. It was two years ago. My daughter was still in kindergarten then. One day, when she came home, she told me that one of her teachers had quit teaching for reasons unknown. That same evening, when I took my daughter for a walk in a shopping centre, we saw the teacher. She was working there as a salesperson selling blankets. My daughter was very surprised. She simply could not understand why the teacher gave up teaching to become a salesperson. But I knew why. It was the pressure of survival. It forced the teacher to make a realistic choice, to give up her career ambition, to walk away from a group of cute little children.
The third contradiction is the reluctance of kindergarten teachers to receive teacher training. Poor pay, hard work, the pressure of the community's high expectations and the absence of a good career prospect are the reasons why kindergarten teachers are not motivated to spend a lot of time on receiving professional training. More than half of the kindergarten teachers today have not received even rudimentary professional training. The number of kindergarten teachers participating in training programmes has increased by only 1.7% over the past two years. What is even more disturbing is that the trainees, after finishing the course, are mostly hired as replacements for teachers who have quit. Nor can the teachers be blamed for quitting. The fault lies with our congenitally defective pay system, which does not motivate kindergarten teachers to settle on kindergarten education as their preferred life-long career.
Mr Deputy President, kindergarten teachers as a group are probably the youngest of all occupational groups in Hong Kong. Their youthfulness, while it imparts youthful vitality to their occupation, also means that the occupation is unable to keep people. Many young people were full of hope when they first joined this occupation. In the end, they walked away in disappointment. Consequently, this important function of initiating small children into the world of learning has to be performed mostly by young people who have completed just Form V or even Form III. The best interests of the small children are not served. To the young and eager teachers themselves, the task is a heavy but thankless burden.
Mr Deputy President, summing up the three major contradictions, one can come to only one conclusion. It is that the quality of our kindergarten education will hardly ever be improved. Something must be done about this problem. The Government is now considering legislation to require kindergartens to hire a minimum percentage of qualified teachers. The hope is that market forces will then work to raise the pay of qualified kindergarten teachers. This is a good intention, but it may have bad side-effects. The matter must be looked at properly.
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 3 February 1993 1685
To pay the salaries of the qualified teachers that they must hire, kindergartens will be forced to raise tuition fees. They may raise the fees sharply, thus passing all of the higher costs on to parents. The parents, whose burden will grow heavier still, will then object and resist, directing their displeasure first against the kindergartens and then against the Government. Clashes will be very likely.
Kindergartens will most probably not raise fees so much as will make parents unhappy. They will limit the raise. Then, the qualified teachers will be paid only the specified minimum wages. When a kindergarten teacher is due for a pay increase based on experience and seniority, the kindergarten will have to replace her with a new person so as not to upset the budget. This will not be in the best interests of pupils or teachers. A marked improvement of the quality of kindergarten education will remain beyond reach. Things will remain in a vicious circle, from which there is no escape.
Mr Deputy President, to break this vicious circle, the only thing that can be done is for the Government to bring kindergarten education gradually into the scope of subsidized education. By gradually, I mean that the Government will expand its commitment to kindergarten education step by step until finally it is subsidized and supervised by the Government as primary and secondary educations already are. In this way, the good quality of kindergarten teachers can be assured. The process will be very long drawn-out. I suggest that it be divided into three phases.
During Phase One, legislation is to be enacted making it compulsory for kindergartens to hire a minimum percentage of qualified teachers and to pay them the government specified salaries plus annual increments. Meanwhile, the fee remission scheme is also to be expanded and kindergarten teachers' remuneration is to be partly subsidized. Kindergartens will then be able to comply with the new law without having to raise their tuition charges and add to the burden of parents.
During Phase Two, after the Government begins assuming responsibility for kindergarten education, a number of government kindergartens are to be set up in a pilot programme. At the same time, incentives are to be used to encourage more non-profit making agencies to start kindergartens. Government kindergartens, subsidized kindergartens and private kindergartens will then exist simultaneously. Friendly competition will help to improve the quality of all.
During Phase Three, after assuming responsibility for the funding of a large and growing part of kindergarten education, the Government will have reason to want to exercise reasonable supervision over the subsidized kindergartens. Supervision is to cover the quality of teachers, course planning and classroom activities.
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It can be exercised through the enactment and enforcement of regulations, same as in the case of subsidized primary and secondary schools. Finally, kindergarten education is to be totally subsidized. Thus, all small children will be able to receive full kindergarten education of a high quality.
Mr Deputy President, as I said earlier, kindergarten education is children's first initiation into the world of learning. I mean that kindergartens give children the preliminary and fundamental knowledge. As children grow up and become adults, they may have gone very far, climbed very high and greatly broadened their horizons. Still, they should look back and remember their first kindergarten teacher gratefully for teaching them the first written word, the first song and the first fact of life. These provided the foundation on which they have gone farther, climbed higher and more greatly broadened their horizons than would otherwise have been possible.
Therefore, as we look back on our own growing-up process and on our own kindergarten education, we should feel not only gratitude but also a sense of duty to enable the next generation to receive from a sound kindergarten education system the benefit of a richer and more pleasant childhood and the benefit of increased knowledge of the whys and wherefores of things. Today, Mr Deputy President, when I ask everybody to support the motion on subsidization of kindergarten education, I am calling for a reaffirmation of what is an extremely important, but also the most neglected, element of basic education. Kindergarten education should be given new hopes and a new life. I am convinced that children of the future will derive pleasure, happiness, knowledge and strength from our decision today.
Mr Deputy President, with these remarks, I move the motion.
Question on the motion proposed.
MRS SELINA CHOW: Mr Deputy President, more than anyone else I am only too aware that I might run the risk of sounding like a broken record today when pressing the points that I feel strongly about regarding kindergarten education. For over the years I have repeatedly reiterated my views on the subject, first as an interested parent in the early 1980s and later as an involved member of the Education Panel and the Education Commission.
The Administration has remained strangely immune to the aspiration of the community in this respect taking unfair advantage, in my view, of the patience of parents and the sense of self-sacrifice of the education workers in this sector. It would be quite meaningless to argue over semantics of whether kindergarten education is desirable or essential. The fact remains that over 90% of three to five-year-olds, totalling 190 000 children, attend kindergartens. It reflects an overwhelming recognition on the part of parents of the need to send their children to kindergarten whatever their reason may be. The Administration must accept this fact and readjust their priorities accordingly.
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The vicious circle that continues to haunt early childhood education is the lack of recognition of kindergarten educators as professionals. There is neither the requirement, nor the incentive, for training to be given and standards to be met. The Government has not the will to be involved and relies on the goodwill and voluntary efforts of the private sector. There seems also to be the reluctance to take on the financial burden that involvement might entail.
Those of us who have served on the Education Commission are only too aware that the inclusion of this sector in the Education Commission Report No. 5 owes nothing to the initiatives of the Administration. What was recommended only came about on the acceptance of financial constraints on the part of the non-official members.
I have already said in the Council that in view of the very healthy financial position we are in today there are no more excuses not to advance the programme put forward in the Education Commission Report No. 5. In other words, the legislative framework to obligate a phased increase in the percentage of trained kindergarten teachers must come into effect as soon as possible, latest by 1994, commencing with 50% and progressing yearly to a 100% within a realistic timetable. At the same time the salary scale for trained teachers would have to be mandated to provide the necessary incentive for teachers to go forward for training.
The fee remission scheme must also be brought into line on the same timetable so that by the time the legislation for the prescribed percentage of trained teachers is enacted, the scheme should be on par with that of the senior secondary scheme.
Most parents regard kindergarten education as equally necessary as, if not more necessary than, senior secondary education for their children. There is therefore no justification for only 6.4% of them to be financially assisted on the lower level, while 31.4% of them are subsidized on a higher level. The other key discrepancy should also be done away with and that is, just as for senior secondary, kindergarten parents should enjoy half or full fee remission and not one-quarter or three-quarters. When this scheme was first introduced the procedure was so complicated that a lot of eligible parents were deterred from applying. I understand the process has been made simpler. However, in the Education Department 12 officers are servicing this scheme while only five service the senior secondary scheme where both the overall population and the eligible proportion are greater in number. This may reflect an unnecessary complication of the kindergarten scheme or an inefficiency of the procedure. Either way, it needs to be addressed.
May I now move to a broader plain? From the perspective of enhancing kindergarten education service as a profession, the Administration must be much more prepared to take a long-term view. There have been calls in the community for a co-ordinated effort to upgrade the quality of kindergarten education by establishing the proper mechanism to co ordinate the training and
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research of initial as well as in-service teachers and the supervision and development of curriculum. This would require the introduction of appropriate teacher training courses in our tertiary institutions, the inclusion of this aspect of curriculum development under the ambit of the Curriculum Development Institute and the establishment of a resource centre designated specifically for early childhood education. The last suggestion would have been done on the recommendation of the Education Commission Report No. 2, if not for backtracking on the Government's part. I urge that these views be given serious consideration and implementation.
Currently the overlapping of enrolment of children between two and six by nurseries and kindergartens has resulted in the unclear delineation of authority and responsibility between the Education Department and the Social Welfare Department. I support the proposal forwarded by the education and social sectors that a clear line should be drawn according to age so that kindergartens should take in children between four to six and nurseries children below four so as to clarify this rather unsatisfactory situation.
Mr Deputy President, I support the motion.
MR HUI YIN-FAT (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, I think that the importance of pre primary education is beyond doubt. Many developed countries owe their superior accomplishments in all areas of intellectual endeavour to the great importance that their governments consistently attach to pre-primary education. Some of these governments regard pre-primary education as a basic human right. We can thus see how the governments and the people in these countries approach their commitments to the future of their societies.
Regrettably, the Government in Hong Kong always responds indifferently when members of the public mention the necessity of kindergarten education. The Government is taking no direct part in the provision of kindergarten education; it is even averse to helping non-profit-making agencies in operating kindergartens. What is the Government doing to help? Well, there is the subsidization of kindergartens' payment of rents and rates. Apart from this, there is only the fee remission scheme for parents. But the beneficiaries of this scheme, who have to meet very harsh conditions, receive only a low level of relief. The scheme benefits only 8% of all the children in kindergartens in Hong Kong. No wonder that kindergarten education is receiving in the present financial year a total funding that amounts to only $129 million and that accounts for 1.1% of the overall education budget. This negligible amount of funding shows that the Government is willing only to make a symbolic commitment to kindergarten education. One ought indeed to feel ashamed.
The Education and Manpower Branch has declared again and again that kindergarten education is non-essential. Yet, according to the Education Department, more than 85% of Hong Kong children in the three-to-five age
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group are in kindergartens. This clearly shows that a vast majority of the families find kindergarten education essential. However, because the Government is averse to subsidizing the agencies that operate kindergartens, it is not hard to imagine that tuition charges, which rise in tandem with consumer prices, are a heavy financial burden on the average family, particularly the average middle-income family. An even more serious matter is that some of the better kindergartens have gradually become the "special preserve" of children from wealthy families. This is contrary to the principle of fair education opportunities for all.
I can understand why the Government is averse to directly subsidizing the agencies that operate kindergartens. Still, the Government should never shirk its responsibilities in the areas of teacher training, teachers' pay and assistance to parents. I think that, if the difficulties faced by kindergarten education are to be fully resolved, the Government should play a more effective subsidizing role in two ways.
Firstly, the Government must improve the present fee remission scheme. For instance, it can reasonably relax the upper income limit of a family to qualify for assistance under the scheme; it can also adjust the points system to benefit a larger number of needy families. The purpose is to enable kindergartens to adjust their tuition charges reasonably, thus finding the means to hire more and better teachers and to provide a better classroom environment. Thus, the quality of kindergarten education will be upgraded generally.
Secondly, something can be done to help teachers. At present, kindergarten teachers' jobs are insecure and they are paid less than cashiers in supermarkets. Consequently, only a small number of people want the job. The lack of training and advancement opportunities causes another serious problem, which is that many kindergarten teachers quit their jobs. This greatly affects kindergarten education. I think that the Government should take up the responsibility for teacher training. In fact, as far as I know, if only the Government gives the go-ahead and makes a funding commitment, some experienced institutions will be able to conduct on-job training courses for kindergarten teachers.
Additionally, the Government should set a reasonable subsidy ratio and directly pay the salaries of kindergarten teachers who are qualified by training and experience. If this is not done, all training plans and efforts will come to naught, because in the end they will be all wasted in the absence of pay incentives from the Government.
Over the long term, the Government should actively involve itself in kindergarten education and make a bigger commitment both in policy and in funding. This is the only way to achieve full result in improving the quality of kindergarten education, thus providing the best safeguard, and laying a solid foundation, for Hong Kong's long-term economic prosperity.
1690 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 3 February 1993 Mr Deputy President, with these remarks, I support the motion.
MR SZETO WAH (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, "amendment" is in fashion, but the present motion is totally immune from this fashionable trend. Nobody is proposing to amend it. This shows that its substance is something on which "all minds meet and all arguments come to the same conclusion." I believe that the motion definitely will be passed, perhaps even unanimously with not a single nay. If this indeed happens, we will have an extremely rare example of a consensus in this Council. The Government then should absolutely not turn a deaf ear and dismiss the carried motion. On the contrary, it must translate the motion into a concrete policy and then carry it out.
Kindergarten education is the foundation of foundations of education in its entirety. It is the first step in one's life-long journey of learning. I am sure that all colleagues in this Council, however their political persuasions may differ, attach importance to the upbringing of the next generation and to the upgrading of the quality of kindergarten education and want the authorities to make a greater commitment to kindergarten education. I call on all colleagues in this Council, including the three official members, to vote aye.
There were times in the past when I voted against the Budget on the ground that it neglected kindergarten education. In his first policy address, Governor Chris PATTEN referred to an extra $1.6 billion in funding for education over the next five years. But kindergarten education was to receive only $37 million of this amount, or only 2.3% of the total. Clearly, the Government's neglect of kindergarten education is an attitude that has not changed. The Budget for the next financial year is about to be announced. The United Democrats of Hong Kong will be watching it closely to see if the present motion is reflected in the proposed funding for kindergarten education.
The Budget surplus for the present financial year is expected to be unprecedentedly large. This unprecedentedly large surplus all comes from the blood and sweat of the people of Hong Kong. It is the most natural thing in the world that their blood and sweat should be used to provide better kindergarten education to their next generation, is it not?
Since assuming office, Governor PATTEN has been trying very hard to project a close to-the-people image. Every time he went out on inspection tours, he played with children and tried to make them talk to him. He even held them and kissed them. I feel that this is not as expressive as making the Government change its age-long policy of neglecting kindergarten education and accept the present motion's idea of subsidization of kindergarten education, if it is his intention to show his love for the next generation.
Mr Deputy President, with these remarks, I support the motion.
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MR TAM YIU-CHUNG (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, every person has a childhood. Every child wants a happy childhood. Now, do our children today have a happy childhood? The answer, I am afraid, is becoming increasingly uncertain.
Parents should teach their children well. This is beyond doubt. Now, the reality is that, in more and more families, both parents are going out to work. Therefore, kindergartens are more heavily relied upon and their responsibilities have grown heavier.
Government officials say that kindergarten education is non-essential. But what I think is this: Kindergarten education will really be unnecessary if we have to be content with the kind of kindergarten education that is now generally available in Hong Kong. But good kindergarten education is what every young child should have.
Look at the kind of education that our small children are receiving. There is no ample space for their activity. There are not enough teachers to look after them. There are not many new things to stimulate their minds or for them to learn. On the other hand, there are many difficult words for them to remember by heart and to learn to write. There is a heavy load of homework that they must do, writing with heavy pens. What kind of happy childhood is this? Is this, then, the kind of environment in which our next generation is to grow up, the kind of environment that our community, whose economic successes make us so proud, is to provide?
Teachers find that today's students lack imagination, lack originality, lack interest in studies, lack a capacity to appreciate things of beauty and lack uninhibited initiative. Some young people are even finding life not worth living. They have nothing in this world that they will miss. They have nobody in this world that they will miss. The fact that they are like this has very much to do with the way in which their earlier childhood was shaped.
Therefore, it can be said most problem youths had an unfortunate childhood. Kindergartens are where a person's social participation began. Therefore, they should provide many opportunities for meeting teachers and other children. Kindergartens are also where a person's search for knowledge began. Therefore, they should provide many opportunities for asking, and finding answers for, thought-provoking questions. Kindergartens are usually where a person's taste for things of beauty was first formed. Therefore, they should provide ample opportunities for getting in touch with fine arts, with good music and with Mother Nature. More importantly, kindergartens are where a person began the formative process. Therefore, they should be lively and interesting places. Heavy indeed are the responsibilities of kindergarten teachers, under whose guidance children take the first step in the journey towards adulthood. But we are embarrassed by the low status and the low pay of our kindergarten teachers.
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I would not want to think that investing more resources is the only way to correct what is wrong with kindergarten education. Nor would I want to consider the question of resources in isolation. Undoubtedly, investing more resources is a very basic requirement. But the really critical question is what degree of importance kindergarten education receives in the Government's policy consideration. The investment of resources must be supported by an overall plan for pre-primary education. There should be a clear objective, a guideline on class programmes, an effort to improve the quality of teachers and a meeting of the mind between parents and academia as a whole on how kindergarten education should be conducted. Only this will produce a high-quality kindergarten education.
Mr Deputy President, with these remarks, I support the motion.
MR ALBERT CHAN (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, in a civilized society in which human rights are respected, everybody should have an opportunity for, and a right to, education. People receive education so as to become intellectually developed. This is what makes society advance. It is the obligation of a government to invest in human resources, in preparing useful citizens of the future. Universal education is essential for the good of the future society. Kindergarten education is a very important element of the education system as a whole.
There is the saying: "What one is at the age of three determines what one will be at the age of 80." Psychologists say that children before four have infinite development potential and that this is the time that must be seized to guide children's mind development, which is then at its fastest. In fact, how a child will grow up depends on the environmental stimulation and the education to which he is exposed during the first few years of his life. If the opportunity is missed, it is wasted, nor can the damage be repaired.
Pre-primary education lays the foundation for a child's growth. It has a huge impact on the development of small children's physiology, intellect, language ability, emotion and social skills. Governments everywhere pay great attention to kindergarten education. But the situation in Hong Kong is way behind; it is also marked by prolonged deliberate belittlement of this aspect of fundamental education.
The Government's subsidies to kindergartens are limited to the payment of rents and rates and a fee remission scheme whose benefits are available to the parents of only a tiny number of pupils. The relevant funding accounts for only about 1% of the total education budget. Such negligible subsidies do not add up to a financial commitment. The Government's indifference makes it impossible for the quality of kindergarten education to be assured. The result is the poor pay of kindergarten teachers. People do not find this occupation attractive; trained kindergarten teachers tend to quit their jobs. Meanwhile, in the absence of supervision by the Education Department, different kindergartens follow
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different standards in designing courses, in providing facilities and in recruiting teachers. Worse yet, parents are made to bear most of the operating costs of kindergartens, while beneficiaries of the fee remission scheme are very few. Many needy families cannot send their children to preferred kindergartens or to any kindergarten.
The Government has single-handedly put kindergarten education in a blind alley from which there is no escape. It must undo what it has done. To improve the quality of kindergarten education, the only thing that can be done is to increase subsidies and expand the financial commitment. Firstly, the Government must expand the fee remission scheme to lighten the burden on parents. Secondly, it must subsidize the salaries of qualified kindergarten teachers, more of whom can then be motivated to receive training and remain in their jobs. In the long term, however, the Government must make a comprehensive policy for kindergarten education and gradually bring kindergarten education into the scope of subsidized education.
Kindergarten education is a tight knot that can be gradually untied only if the Government is willing to subsidize kindergartens directly and fully. Hong Kong's small children will then be better looked after. After the Government assumes responsibility for pre-primary education, it can lay down policy requirements that will assure the good quality of kindergarten teachers and kindergarten education. Then, teachers will be able to receive pre-job and on-job training; kindergarten courses will be more responsive to the needs of Hong Kong's children. The Education Department will as a result be in a position of power to supervise the operation of the kindergartens, to make sure that they use the right methods and that the classrooms are spacious and well equipped. More importantly, all children within the three-to-six age group, regardless of their families' means, will be able to go to kindergartens that have good teachers and are well supervised. The courses will be designed under proper guidance so that they will be suited to the age group's mental and physical needs and capabilities. As the courses will be designed under the guidance of the Education Department, they presumably will not over-emphasize book learning and will not be intellectually unexciting. Also, a uniform system of kindergarten courses will converge better with primary school courses.
Mr Deputy President, the raising of children is the charge of parents. It is no less the charge of the Government. To prepare useful citizens for society through the provision of integral all-round education is an extremely important undertaking. The sooner children are well looked after and given good pre-primary education, the easier it will be to reduce and eliminate youth problems as well as problems in primary, secondary and tertiary schools in the future. Any remedial measure will still require a huge amount of resources but will accomplish relatively little. The Government should be far-sighted enough
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to make an early decision to adopt a policy of full subsidization of kindergarten education, thus doing a good turn to Hong Kong's parents and children.
With these remarks, I support the motion.
MR FREDERICK FUNG (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, as the saying goes, "What one is at the age of three determines what one will be at the age of 80." This saying tells us how very important kindergarten education is. Kindergarten education may not affect one's entire life, but it is very important to every child's healthy growth. Yet kindergarten education is being neglected in Hong Kong's education system today. First of all, the Government does not have a comprehensive policy for kindergarten education. All charitable organizations, religious groups and even profit-making agencies can operate kindergartens just as they please, observing their own different standards. The kindergartens operated by some so-called elite schools advertise their difficult courses and charge higher tuition fees than those charged by local universities. Yet many parents, wanting their children to be outstanding, do not mind paying high tuition fees to send them to kindergartens where they are forced to learn things that would be better taught later, in the second or the third year of primary school. Many colleagues who work with children and many child psychologists say that the important point of kindergarten education is not the teaching of book knowledge or the remembering of lessons by heart but the stimulation of the mind and the enhancement of motivation to learn, which prepare children for primary school. A woman in my neighbourhood once told me what she felt. She said that the heavy homework in the kindergarten had rendered her four-year-old child unchildlike. Yet she had mixed feelings because many kindergartens stressed the learning of difficult lessons. She feared that, if she did not send her own child to a kindergarten that stressed hard learning, the child would be unable to compete with other children when applying for "reputable" primary schools. Talking to this neighbour, I found her to be a typical mother who wanted her child to be outstanding. More importantly, I find that the present education policy gives no thought at all to kindergarten education, no thought about courses, fees or teachers. This is why we are having all kinds of kindergartens, some good and some bad. The ultimate victims are the next generation.
As I said earlier, kindergarten education is important for children's growing-up process. Therefore, it is very important to have trained and qualified kindergarten teachers. However, though the teaching profession is a service profession and is a very important human resource, the Government is not subsidizing kindergarten teachers' pay. Nor does regulation require kindergartens to hire a minimum percentage of trained teachers. The result is that many kindergartens, in order to cut operating costs, hire as few trained teachers as possible. Experienced teachers are therefore unable to keep their jobs. This explains why there are good and bad kindergartens.
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The kindergartens operated by self-styled elite schools charge very high tuition fees. Many parents do not mind paying them. They send their children to these kindergartens in the hope that they will later be able to enter "reputable" primary schools. On the surface of it, it seems that we have a free marketplace, where fair deals are concluded under an operative price mechanism. Still, kindergarten education is too important and useful to society to be left to itself. In fact, the Government's present total disengagement provides sharp businessmen with one more opportunity to make money and increases the burden of parents.
We want high-quality kindergarten education. For this, an important condition is the better quality of teachers. The Government's fee remission scheme for kindergarten pupils is also indispensable if children from low-income families are to be able to receive kindergarten education of similar quality. To do otherwise would be to discriminate against the children of low-income families with regard to education opportunity. Therefore, the Government should lay down a comprehensive policy for kindergarten education and subsidize kindergarten education to raise the quality of kindergartens and kindergarten teachers to reasonable levels.
In view of the above, I support the Honourable CHEUNG Man-kwong's motion and I urge the Government to take some substantive follow-up actions after the present debate, so as not to give the members of the public and Members of this Council the impression that we just talk and talk and that the Government is unwilling to act.
With these remarks, I support the motion.
MR TIMOTHY HA (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, the role of pre-primary education is to serve as the foundation in the education system as a whole. I fully recognize its importance. But I will not belabour this point because other Members have already covered it.
The Government so far has not made pre-primary education a part of compulsory education. However, because of social and economic factors and because parents so wish, kindergarten education has long become the trend. Therefore, though kindergarten education is not "essential" legally speaking, it is a "necessity" factually speaking. The Government should not belittle this necessity. Instead, it should make a greater commitment to kindergarten education as required by the community. Pre-primary education receives only 1% of the Government's total education funding, while tertiary education receives the lion's share. This is like an inverted triangle. The proportions are all wrong.
Members of the public are unhappy with kindergarten education probably because of the non-uniform and generally low standards of the kindergartens. If the quality of kindergarten education is to be improved, one cannot rely on
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kindergartens' self-improvement or spontaneous improvement. Government intervention is needed. In fact, the Government has already been intervening through subsidizing parents, setting pay standards and training teachers. The only question is the degree of intervention.
It is generally acknowledged that the Government's present commitment to pre primary education is inadequate. I agree with the spirit of the motion. I agree that the Government should make a greater commitment to pre-primary education. I further agree with the first two points of the motion, which are (1) "expanding the fee remission scheme" and (2) "subsidizing the remuneration of kindergarten teachers." However, at this moment, I have some reservations about the third point, which is "bringing kindergarten education into the scope of subsidized education." The motion expresses the view that bringing kindergarten education into the scope of subsidized education will eventually "improve the quality of kindergarten education and afford fuller attention to young children." I think, however, that such an objective may not be best achieved by bringing the whole of pre primary education into the scope of subsidized education.
Firstly, bringing pre-primary education into the scope of subsidized education will involve not only a change in the source of funding for kindergarten education but also a change in the system of pre-primary education. In Hong Kong at present, all kindergartens are operated privately. This affords the advantage of flexibility and diversity.
If kindergarten education is brought into the scope of government-subsidized education, then all subsidized kindergartens will, like the average subsidized primary and secondary school, be subject to the regulations governing subsidized schools. Their financial independence and flexibility will be curtailed as will be their freedom in buying and replacing equipment and in deciding on the establishment of teachers. Therefore, barring the surfacing of very strong evidence showing problems in the existing pre-primary education system, the best way to improve the quality of kindergarten education is not to subject kindergartens to the regulations governing subsidized schools and apply a rigid uniform standard to the operation of all kindergartens. Therefore, I think that pre-primary education should keep its flexibility and diversity. Therefore, I think that the idea of bringing kindergarten education into the scope of subsidized education should be reconsidered.
Secondly, all kindergartens in Hong Kong are operated privately, but there are two kinds of them, non-profit-making and independent. According to information that I have, there were 364 independent kindergartens in the year 1991-92, accounting for 47% of all kindergartens in Hong Kong. This is a large percentage. Almost half of the kindergartens were independent kindergartens.
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Suppose that the Government decides to bring pre-primary education into the scope of subsidized education. Suppose that all kindergartens are given the freedom of choosing to join or not to join the programme. Still, I expect that most kindergartens will be forced to join in the interest of "survival." This will send a major shock wave and a tremor through the existing system of kindergarten education, which is operating effectively and smoothly.
Many independent kindergartens in Hong Kong provide facilities over and above the general standard. This should be encouraged. I fear that, if full subsidization becomes the policy for pre-primary education, the high-quality independent kindergartens will disappear. There is a precedent. Independent primary and secondary schools are now almost like "endangered species." We still have independent kindergartens now, but I fear that they, too, will disappear, sharing the fate of independent primary and secondary schools.
There are still many independent kindergartens now. Their quality is good. They have no financial problem. Their teachers are paid salaries higher than the salary suggested by the Government. This being the situation, it is really debatable whether taxpayers' money should be forced on them as a rigid form of subsidy.
The Government should make a greater commitment to pre-primary education. But it should not use legislation to set rigid restrictions on the development of pre-primary education. Rather than subsidize all kindergartens rigidly and uniformly, the Government should continue subsidizing parents and take the further step of subsidizing the salaries of some of the teachers. This will lighten parents' burden on one hand and improve the quality of kindergarten education on the other.
Mr Deputy President, today's motion seeks to extend benefits to more parents or to increase the amount of the benefit being enjoyed by recipient parents. I am in favour of this. However, I still have reservations about the idea of rigidly bringing kindergarten education into the scope of subsidized education.
DR HUANG CHEN-YA (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, some people regard education spending as social welfare spending. Yet there is a lot of evidence to show that, in any given region or area, economic growth is closely related to how well the people are educated. Take the recent decades for instance. The trend of changes in the global economic structure and employment structure has been in the direction of an increasing emphasis on quality, choice and timeliness in the provision of goods and services. As a result, there is a greater demand for brain power than for physical power and the economic competitiveness of a nation is determined by how well educated its working population is. Therefore, we should acknowledge that education spending is an investment in human resources and a step in economic development. We should reasonably apportion our education spending with a
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view to "putting money to the best use". We should also probe the potentials of educational institutions and give them full play to enable these institutions to discharge their role fully.
From the angle of cost-effectiveness and the angle of investment in human resources, is kindergarten education a luxury or a necessary social commitment? Beginning during the 1970s, medical studies established that there was a critical phase in the development of the human brain. For a time after birth, brain cells begin linking together to form networks, which then become systems controlling different body functions. Proper stimulation during this sensitive period of development will cause the brain cells to form fuller and more complex networks and the brain to become sounder and more efficient. On the other hand, if this period passes before stimulus is applied, certain functions will never be possible. Let me give an example. If you let a new-born cat look at nothing but vertical lines, then, after some time, the cat will be totally unable to discern horizontal lines. We now know, in the cases of many kinds of animals, how long the critical phase of brain development lasts. Though we do not know how long it lasts in the case of human beings, many scientists nevertheless tend to agree that the moment must be seized and that human brains should be given suitable stimulus during childhood so as to promote the development of the intellect and the formation of healthy social behavioural tendencies.
The theories of the brain physiologists are in fact supported by empirical evidence. In a study in the United States, 126 children from poor families were sent to kindergartens. Nineteen years later, compared with children from similar backgrounds who did not go to kindergartens, they were shown to have a lower crime rate and to be more employable. The study concluded that, for every $1,000 invested in kindergartens, $4,000 could be saved from spending on tackling social problems. In France, where almost all three-year-old children now go to kindergartens, a recent survey found that children would do even better in studies and in social behaviour if schooling began at the age of two. According to a study in the United Kingdom last year, among seven-year-old children, those who had gone to kindergartens scored higher points in aptitude tests than the rest.
Therefore, looking either from the angle of development of the brain and of the nervous system or from the angle of education experience, one sees a lot of evidence showing that childhood is a critical period in human development. We must upgrade the quality of the population. If we miss the opportunity, the loss will be irreparable. To upgrade the quality of the population and uncover the gifted, we must begin with kindergarten education and thus provide a sounder physiological foundation for subsequent stages of education.
Let us now look at another macroeconomic example. Since the "Meiji reform" era, Japan has been basing its national policy on good education. This has never changed over more than 100 years. Attention to education was one important reason why Japan could rise from the ruins of World War II to become a superpower. Therefore, it will be worth our while to take a look at
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Japan's policy for kindergarten education. After World War II, the Japanese Government announced a series of policies on kindergarten education, including the School Education Act, the Kindergarten Education Programme and the Basic Standard for Kindergarten Facilities. In 1964, it began a seven-year plan on kindergarten education. In 1972, it began a 10-year plan. After that, it began its third 10-year plan, under which the remuneration of kindergarten teachers and employees was raised, additional public and private kindergartens were set up, and subsidies were increased. Now, in Japan, 95% of all children between the ages of three and five go to kindergartens. After many years of effort in teacher training to fill positions in, and improve the quality of, kindergarten education, higher standards are now set for kindergarten teachers who are eligible to receive qualifying diplomas. Now, in Japan, 94% of all kindergarten teachers are graduates of tertiary institutes. In 1981, education spending accounted for 7.2% of national income in Japan and spending on kindergartens accounted for 3.8% of education spending.
Now, in Hong Kong, 85% of children in the relevant age group are going to kindergartens. This shows that Hong Kong parents are generally aware of the importance of kindergarten education. Yet government spending on kindergartens accounts for only 1.1% of education spending, which, in turn, accounts for only 3% of GDP. These figures are pathetic compared with Japan's. Because the Government in Hong Kong does not provide pre-job training, only 44% of kindergarten teachers have received training. Evidently, the Government simply does not appreciate the importance of, and does not make a commitment to, kindergarten education.
Mr Deputy President, the preparation of useful citizens through proper education assures economic stability and social progress. The United Democrats of Hong Kong are convinced that we should attach importance to the development of the intellect during childhood and regard it as a key part of a policy on the development of human resources. This is because childhood is when physical and mental development is most rapid but yet readily amenable to moulding. We should not miss the opportunity.
Mr Deputy President, with these remarks, I support the motion.
MR SIMON IP: Mr Deputy President, the Government has repeatedly claimed that kindergarten education is not essential as justification for its policy of minimal subsidy to this sector. With respect, I do not agree.
It is widely accepted developmental theory that the experience and stimulations received in the early years of a child can greatly influence his potential capability and adult personality. First impressions are the most lasting. Studies overseas have shown that kindergarten education can and does improve a child's social skills, his IQ and future academic performance. As the children of today are our investments for the future, no effort or funding should be spared to give them the best start.
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Children from less privileged backgrounds in Hong Kong are likely to receive less intellectual stimulus from their working parents. This is merely a side effect of our successful economy which produces full employment and a tight labour market. It is not a symptom of uncaring parenthood. These underprivileged children are, therefore, in greatest need of an equal start with their more well-off counterparts. Proper care and stimulus will provide them with a solid foundation for development and lessen delinquency and behavioural problems as they progress to adolescence.
For these reasons, the Government should increase its commitment to kindergarten education by enhancing its quality and making it affordable to every family. I shall now examine various policies that should be taken.
Firstly, kindergartens should employ more qualified teachers. Following the recommendation of the Education Commission Report No. 5, the Director of Education recently announced that kindergartens will soon be required to employ a minimum proportion of qualified kindergarten teachers. While this long-awaited decision is to be welcomed, I believe there should be a longer-term plan to spell out an increasing proportion in the coming years in a progressive manner.
In order to attract more qualified teachers, employment terms will need to be enhanced. In the long run, kindergartens should be brought within the scope of subsidized education. As a first step, the Government should offer realistic financial support to both parents and kindergartens, by substantially improving the fee remission scheme and partially subsidizing the salary of teachers.
Next, the training of kindergarten teachers should be improved. I am concerned with the result of a survey conducted by the University of Hong Kong, which shows that graduates from available courses generally found them to be of little relevance to real life situations with which they have to deal. Even in the most popular segments of these courses, such as child psychology and development, teaching methods and child care, only a modest 25% of the graduates rated them as useful, while many other segments were rated as of little usefulness. In the light of this survey, the Education Department and the future Institute of Education should conduct a thorough review of the efficacy of these courses and improve them where desirable or necessary.
Lastly, the kindergarten curriculum and teaching methods need attention. Some traditional methods which are performance orientated may need review as being inappropriate for children of a very tender age. Skills like reading and writing are being expected of children as young as three or four. Homework and examinations are set extensively. These activities exert an undue stress on children of that age and can produce detrimental long-term effects.
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The crux of this problem is that too many parents regard kindergartens as a stepping stone to enrolling their children in reputable primary schools. Kindergartens thus respond to parents' demands and expectations by designing their curricula accordingly. This problem cannot be solved unless parents and teachers change their attitude and allow their children to develop their personalities, their curiosity and their creativity through play and experimentation. The Education Department can take a lead in developing new attitudes on kindergarten education.
Hong Kong will benefit from a comprehensive set of policies on kindergartens based on sound educational grounds, followed by financial commitment on the part of the Government to carry them out. We must not forget that children are our future and, in closing, I quote from MILTON's Paradise Regained:
"The childhood shows the man, as morning shows the day."
Mr Deputy President, with these words, I support the motion.
MR ERIC LI (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, I believe that I should declare my interests. I am a director of a non-profit-making kindergarten and, like the Honourable CHEUNG Man-kwong (who probably does not know it), an honorary president of the Hong Kong Association of Kindergartens. I am totally in agreement with Mr CHEUNG Man kwong's views concerning the need for reform and what the major thrust of the reform should be. In the following, I will add some comments on teacher training and methods of subsidization.
Kindergartens are undoubtedly the most basic part of the education system. They enable children in the three-to-six age group to acquire rudimentary knowledge systematically. They develop the intellect of the children and teach them about self expression and about group life and discipline. If the correct teaching methods are used, kindergartens will lay a solid foundation for the children moving on to the phase of primary education. To achieve these educational objectives, there must be a group of professionally trained people to do the work. If the work is left to others who pretend to be qualified but are really not, the various objectives will become unattainable from the futility of the endeavour. As the Honourable Simon IP said a moment ago, if the quality of education cannot be assured when children are taking their first step, they will develop resistance to the improper teaching methods. Whether kindergarten education is necessary is no longer the point at issue. The point is that, because so many children are already receiving kindergarten education, if they are taught improperly, the effects and the problems will remain unless and until they are corrected in primary school.
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Kindergartens differ from primary schools in the way they teach and look after children. The Government has to lay down a separate system for kindergarten teacher training. Kindergarten teachers are to be trained systematically until they receive diplomas or degrees. They will then, as members of a professional group, have the professional knowledge and management skills required by their special work. In fact, in 1981, a White Paper on primary and pre-primary services already recommended the establishment of a "Pre-school Teacher Training Institute" to train staff for creches and child care centres. Regrettably, the idea was never put into practice. The Education Commission Report No 5 then dropped the idea. I hope that the Government will give fresh thought to the establishment of such an institute to train a number of high-quality pre-school teachers.
Secondly, I would like to talk about the method of subsidization. The Honourable Timothy HA has already made some comments about this, and I agree with most of them. The nine-year free primary and secondary education system has been in effect for more than 10 years. This mode of full-scale subsidization has indirectly led to unfair competition for private schools and created difficulties for the operation of private schools. Almost all private primary and secondary schools have now gone out of existence with the exception of some international schools. As Mr HA said, almost all kindergartens are now operated by private agencies and many of them are well run. When considering the method of subsidization, we should first take note of the systemic differences between kindergartens on one side and primary and secondary schools on the other. We should allow kindergartens sufficient room for development. Further, we may even assist the private agencies in their development. They are to grow together with the non-profit-making agencies. Then, friendly competition will be maintained and parents will have a choice. I believe that the most feasible and most effective way is to carry out gradually a plan of direct subsidization that does not discriminate against profit-making kindergartens and that will help to upgrade the quality of kindergarten teachers.
With these remarks, I support Mr CHEUNG Man-kwong's motion.
MR MAN SAI-CHEONG (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, the saying that "it takes ten years to grow a tree, but a hundred years to educate a man" fully illustrates the importance of basic education. If basic education is not well provided, it is just like placing a triangle upside down as suggested by the Honourable Timothy HA, which will easily topple at any time. The former Governor Lord WILSON always concentrated on producing more university and post-secondary students for Hong Kong by channelling massive resources into tertiary education, with a view to creating an entirely pillar-free "city in the sky" for the territory. It is obvious to all that the quality of our students is rapidly declining. In fact, there is no better way to train and bring up talents for Hong Kong than to do our best in basic education. This depends entirely on the Government's commitment to kindergarten education.
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In Hong Kong, the vast majority of parents will send their children to kindergartens to receive education. According to statistics provided by the Government, there were about 200 000 children aged from two to six receiving kindergarten education each year between 1989 and 1991. This illustrates the importance parents and members of the public attach to kindergarten education.
The main reasons why parents send their children to kindergartens for education are:
(1) As most families have working parents, they find it difficult to spend the whole day on keeping their young children company and educating them. So they send their children to kindergartens.
(2) Parents hope that their children can get more systematic and enlightening education at kindergartens where group activities will help develop interpersonal relations.
(3) An unwritten kindergarten system has been shaped in the community. Many primary schools are assuming that most students have received kindergarten education and parents are feeling anxious that without kindergarten education their children may have a weaker foundation as far as their learning capacity is concerned, and will therefore find it more difficult to cope with Primary I curriculum and stand no chance of being admitted into better primary schools.
Many experts have pointed out that enlightening pre-primary education is of vital importance to the growth of children and, given Hong Kong's actual circumstances, kindergarten education has practically become an integral part of basic education for all children. Therefore, kindergartens should be completely brought into the scope of subsidized education so as to guarantee the quality of kindergarten education.
The expansion of the Kindergarten Fee Remission Scheme is a task of top priority at the present moment, which should be undertaken by the Government to protect children from being deprived of the chance to receive kindergarten education for economic reasons, as well as to prevent low-income families from bearing the heavy economic burden because of the need to pay expensive kindergarten fees. For a four-member family, full remission is only granted if the household income is below $3,600; for households earning between $3,601 and $4,500, there is a 50% reduction in fees whereas families with a household income of over $6,400 do not get any remission at all. Statistics show that less than 11 000 students of Hong Kong's 200 000 kindergarten students (representing only 5.7%) can benefit from the scheme. It is obvious that such a fee remission scheme can hardly cater to the needs of the community.
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Statistics also show that the median annual fees for non-profit-making and private whole-day kindergartens are $8,094 and $10,012 respectively whereas those for non-profit making and private half-day kindergartens are $3,960 and $4,716 respectively. For a four member family with two children attending whole-day kindergartens, the school fees are in the region of $1,600 to $2,000 (calculated on the basis of 10 months a year) each month. And for children attending half-day kindergartens, the monthly school fees are $800 to $900. To those families which cannot obtain any benefit whatsoever from the fee remission scheme, this is definitely an extremely heavy burden to bear.
In order to reduce the burden of low-income families, the Government should considerably expand the Kindergarten Fee Remission Scheme by extending the benefit to more families and raising the level of remission. This should serve as a starting point for increasing subsidies to kindergarten education so that such basic education which is indispensable in Hong Kong can be gradually put on the right track and the quality of education can be improved accordingly.
Although Government officials have talked about expanding the fee remission scheme on several occasions, no concrete plans have yet been announced. Should the Government continue to adopt delaying tactics or allocate just a little more funds merely for show, the vast majority of parents will still have to pay huge school fees and as a result of fierce competition, kindergartens cannot but bring down their costs and reduce the remuneration for kindergarten teachers. In such circumstances, we cannot expect kindergarten education to be able to obtain the resources it needs for improving quality.
Mr Deputy President, if improvement has to be made to kindergarten education, the Government must increase its commitment to this particular sector and fix a timetable for gradually bringing kindergartens into the scope of subsidized education. The pressing task at present is to expand the Kindergarten Fee Remission Scheme so as to extend the benefit to more families. While enacting legislation to determine the manning ratio and salary for trained kindergarten teachers, the Government should continue to provide more subsidies and start to subsidize the remuneration for qualified kindergarten teachers. When the Government gradually increases its financial commitment, it can have a direct influence on the quality of teachers and can also monitor the operations of kindergartens, thus ensuring quality education for young children attending kindergartens.
With these remarks, I support the motion.
DR YEUNG SUM (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, I believe that many colleagues in this Council agree that education is an extremely important investment in human resources. If this is established as a principle, then we must take a proper look at the whole issue of subsidized education — from
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subsidies to kindergartens to subsidies to universities. However, according to information that I have, the Government's commitment to kindergarten education is so little as to be pathetic. Of the nearly 200 000 children now in kindergartens, only 5.7% receive some tuition subsidies. A family of three earning $5,000 a month is already earning too much to be eligible for the subsidy; so the family has to bear the entire kindergarten tuition expense, which averages more than $8,000 a year. It would be simply absurd and ludicrous to maintain that such meagre kindergarten tuition subsidies from the Government amount to a government commitment to kindergarten education.
Some government officials have declared kindergarten education to be non-essential. They use the argument that many western countries do not have subsidized kindergarten education. Such an argument disregards the reality of Hong Kong's social environment and family structure. Worse still, the comparison so made with foreign countries is strained and impractical. The argument is untenable. Firstly, almost all families in Hong Kong send their children to kindergartens. This is not just a question of necessity. It also shows that parents regard the basic education provided by kindergartens as a very important stage in their children's growing-up process and learning process. Also, primary school courses are based on the assumption that students have already completed kindergarten education. So children have to go to kindergartens, where they are prepared for primary school through courses of learning that converge with primary school courses. Secondly, in a typical Hong Kong family, both parents go out to work. This is very different from the families in many foreign countries where, in most cases, the mother stays home to look after children. Thirdly, in foreign countries, living environment and community services are better; there are more and bigger recreation areas and it is easier for a number of families to get together and form a "play group". Parents in Hong Kong have only the choice of sending their children to kindergartens if these children are to have the benefit of healthy development mentally, physically and intellectually. Therefore, kindergarten education is absolutely essential in Hong Kong.
Mr Deputy President, have you heard stories about kindergarten teachers with diplomas having to pretend that they do not have diplomas? They have to hide the truth so as not to appear over-qualified when applying for kindergartens' low-pay teaching positions. This is a tragedy for the occupation. It is part of a vicious circle. Government spending on subsidies for kindergartens is disgraceful. But the operating costs of non-profit-making kindergartens are high. Tuition fees are their only source of income. Parents thus indirectly pay for the operating costs of kindergartens. But parents' means are limited; so kindergartens cannot charge tuition fees that are too high. They therefore cut costs by hiring untrained or allegedly untrained teachers and paying them low salaries. Trained teachers are unable to find teaching jobs in kindergartens and are therefore lost to the kindergartens. The development of kindergarten education is held back by the lack of means.
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Kindergarten teachers' duty is to unlock children's intellect and give them their first valuable lesson on life. Yet kindergarten teachers have to be content with low salaries and unreasonable treatment. The Government has long been discriminating against them. Professional qualification has become a bar to employment and promotion. Let me ask: Who would love to join or remain in the ranks of kindergarten teachers to guide children in their formative process?
Therefore, if the Government really attaches importance to education and understands the great importance of kindergarten education, it must stop ignoring the wishes of Hong Kong parents. Nor should it adhere to its traditional attitude about kindergartens and hinder their development. The Government should practically expand its commitment to kindergarten education. It should expand the fee remission scheme and subsidize the remuneration of kindergarten teachers. It should respect the experience and seniority of kindergarten teachers, make their occupation more respectable, reduce wastage of kindergarten teachers and attract more fresh blood to join the occupation. In the long term, the Government should treat kindergarten education in the same way as it treats primary education and secondary education and bring it into the scope of fully subsidized education. This will end the present plight of kindergarten education and turn a new page for it.
Here, I would like to respond briefly to the Honourable Timothy HA's speech. He stressed that there should be free competition among schools in the marketplace, so as to assure the autonomy of schools. He also said that some schools maintained very high standards and had no financial problem at all. Mr Deputy President, he had a point. But I must make it clear that his point carries a very high price tag. Firstly, without government subsidy, the standard of kindergarten education will be generally low. Secondly, if kindergarten education is not an equal social opportunity, the odds will favour the children of wealthy families when it comes to entering the better secondary schools and universities. There will then be social inequity. Thirdly, without government subsidy, there will be no proper government supervision of kindergartens. Mr Deputy President, from the standpoint of equal social opportunities, from the standpoint of supervision of education and from the standpoint of kindergarten teachers, the United Democrats of Hong Kong urge the Government to bring kindergarten education into the scope of fully subsidized education over the long term.
Mr Deputy President, with these remarks, I support the Honourable CHEUNG Man kwong's motion.
MR TIK CHI-YUEN (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, as many have already noted, the Government's present attention to kindergarten education is quite inadequate. Most of the critics cite the figure of the Government's annual spending on child care services. Spending on kindergarten education accounts for only about 1% of the Education Department's budget. The Government of course cannot escape blame for this. In the final analysis, the cause of the
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problem is that the Government does not wish to bring kindergarten education into the scope of subsidized education.
According to statistics that I have, 80% of the local children in the relevant age group are receiving child care services of one kind or another. Consequently, members of the public hope that the Government will bring child care into the scope of subsidized services. This fact is undisputed. It is the Government's inescapable obligation to make a study of the relevant needs. However, as we also know, the question is not as simple as whether the Government is willing to allocate $1 billion or so. Other questions involved are how child care should be looked at, how kindergartens differ from child care centres, as well as the important questions of buildings and teacher-training facilities for kindergartens. In making important policies in the past, such as those concerning universal education and the expansion of tertiary education, the Government made the decisions and policy commitments before the question of how was answered. The result was red tape and deviation from the policy objectives, so much so that members of the public wondered what the purpose was in having the policies. This being so, short-term measures for quickly improving the quality of kindergarten education are very important.
From the Education Commission Reports Nos. 2 to 5, we learn that the Government's present policy on kindergarten education consists of the following points:
(1) The Government will not fully subsidize kindergarten education and kindergartens are within the scope of the private sector.
(2) The Government will improve the quality of kindergarten teachers by providing teacher training.
(3) To encourage kindergartens to hire trained teachers, the Government permits kindergartens to raise tuition charges on grounds that they are needed for paying higher salaries to teachers.
(4) The Government subsidizes parents through the fee remission scheme.
Regrettably, the entire spirit of the fee remission scheme is based on the notion the benefit is a social welfare benefit. It has nothing to do directly with the idea of encouraging kindergartens to hire trained teachers. In other words, the scheme enables a kindergarten to hire trained teachers only if it is located in a low-income neighbourhood. This being so, the Honourable CHEUNG Man-kwong's motion very much deserves consideration. His idea is that the Government should directly subsidize the remuneration of kindergarten teachers. We fully agree. However, his idea has two technical limitations. Firstly, his idea is that in the end the Government is to subsidize kindergarten education fully. We have reservations about this. Secondly, this idea is not
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appropriate for the private profit-making kindergartens, which account for half of all kindergartens in Hong Kong.
The Education Commission Report No. 5 recommends that the Government should enact legislation to require kindergartens to hire a minimum percentage of trained teachers. It follows logically from this that the Government has the power and the duty to involve itself with kindergarten services. Because legislation takes time, the Government may in the short term provide some consumer-service kinds of help to parents. Firstly, the Government should allow parents to find out from the Education Department the percentage of trained teachers in a particular kindergarten. Secondly, parents should be permitted to look at the Counselling and Inspection Section's reports on kindergartens.
Finally, I have one more point to add. Services for children include not only kindergartens but also child care centres. As far as we know, child care centres are facing similar problems of low staff morale and inadequate government subsidy. I hope that the Education Department, as well as any other department concerned, will give simultaneous consideration to child care centres when studying the problems of services for children.
Mr Deputy President, I so submit. All four Legislative Councillors of Meeting Point support the motion. Thank you.
DR TANG SIU-TONG (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, kindergarten education is an issue that is now receiving a lot of attention in Hong Kong. Problems faced by kindergarten education are government policy, teachers' qualification and pay, high tuition charges and the absence of long-term development objectives.
With regard to funding, the 1992-93 Budget allocates more than $10 billion to education, including, however, only $100 million or so, about 1% of the total, for pre primary education. Evidently, Hong Kong's education system is unbalanced and kindergarten education is not receiving sufficient attention. For example, the kindergarten fee remission scheme of the Education Department actually benefits only a small percentage of parents and is not very useful. In the final analysis, the Government is not subsidizing kindergarten education enough.
With regard to teachers, the Government in 1989 adopted a plan for improving the quality of kindergartens. One objective of the plan was to encourage kindergartens to hire a larger percentage of trained teachers and pay them the suggested salaries. The result of the plan has not been as good as was expected, one reason being that some kindergartens did not want to offer higher salaries to hire trained teachers, being afraid that, if they then raised tuition fees, they would become less competitive. Also, some kindergartens often tended to replace experienced senior teachers with inexperienced junior
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teachers. These things happened because the Government had not enacted legislation to require kindergartens to hire a minimum percentage of qualified teachers and pay them the government-specified salaries. Consequently, a rather high percentage of qualified teachers were lost to the kindergartens.
The Government's flawed policy has produced many negative effects. For example, most kindergarten teachers are untrained; most teachers are paid very low salaries despite their heavy workloads; most parents have to pay high tuition fees, and so forth.
For the lack of government attention, nothing effective has been done to upgrade the quality of pre-primary education. Nor is there hope for its long-term development or quality improvement. Something must be done quickly about this. Kindergarten education is fundamental education and has an important impact on the growth of a child. Also, the quality of kindergarten education has a direct effect on all stages of education, particularly primary education, in Hong Kong.
The Government spends more than $10 billion a year on primary, secondary and tertiary educations but is indifferent to kindergarten education. Such a policy is really difficult to understand.
In his policy address delivered on 7 October 1992, the Governor referred to an education policy that would benefit all the children of Hong Kong, including the use of the fee remission scheme to improve the quality of kindergarten education. Judging from what is happening now, such a proposal is not responsive to the real needs. If the real intention is to solve the existing problems of kindergarten education, the most effective solution is for the Government to make a greater commitment and become more involved.
The authorities should make a comprehensive review of the development of kindergarten education, revise the existing policy and set long-term and short-term objectives to enable Hong Kong's children to receive full attention and to enable Hong Kong's kindergarten education to develop in a manner that is in balance with the overall system of education in Hong Kong.
Mr Deputy President, in order that these objectives may be attained, the Education Department should set up a select group and let it come up with a whole set of policy objectives, thus making kindergarten education a part of subsidized education.
With these remarks, I support the motion.
SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION AND MANPOWER: Mr Deputy President, this debate underlines yet again the immense importance which Honourable Members attach to education at all levels. It also demonstrates vividly that, in this vital area, there is no limit to the community's aspirations for more and
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better to be done, and absolutely no room for complacency on the part of those trying to do it. The Government fully recognizes these facts of life. I hope that, for their part, Honourable Members and the community at large will accept that, while we should rightly strive incessantly for more and better, our resources are never as unlimited as our aspirations, and that there often are different ways of achieving our objectives.
Policy background
It is the Government's policy to enable all children of the relevant age group to have access to kindergarten education within a non-compulsory private sector system. Contrary to the perception of some Members, this policy positively recognizes the value of kindergarten education for the development and growth of our children. And it has enabled 85% of our children in the age group to attend kindergartens.
As part of this policy, the Government has, since 1982, provided financial assistance to the kindergarten sector by refunding the rents and rates of non-profit-making kindergartens. In 1989, following consideration of the Education Commission's Report No. 2, we decided to take several additional steps with the objective of improving the quality of kindergarten education:
- we introduced a new fee remission scheme to help needy parents pay the fees which private sector kindergartens needed to charge in order to pay the salaries of trained teachers;
- we organized full-time and part-time teacher training courses to upgrade the quality of kindergarten teachers;
- we issued curriculum guidelines to help kindergarten teachers prepare their tuition schedules;
- and we introduced legislation for a minimum teacher:pupil ratio, as well as normative salary scales to ensure that properly trained teachers would be attracted into the profession and encouraged to stay in it.
Our aim was to encourage kindergarten operators to achieve, over time, successive trained teacher targets of 40%, 60% and eventually 85%. The broader aim was to raise kindergarten staffing standards to those of Child Care Centres, so as to pave the way for the eventual unification of pre-primary services. A Working Party on Kindergarten Education was formed to monitor progress and advise on any further measures needed.
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We have already achieved encouraging results. In the first two years of its implementation, the new package boosted average teacher salaries, in real terms, by 19.5% for Qualified Kindergarten Teachers (QKT) and 14% for Qualified Assistant Kindergarten Teachers (QAKT). The wastage rate of trained teachers dropped from 19.4% in 1988-89 to 12% in 1990-91. Enrolment in QAKT courses has also risen sharply, by 30% in the first year and by another 28% in the second. Unfortunately, QKT courses have done less well, with a 30% drop in enrolment in 1991-92 as compared to the year before. Nevertheless, as of September 1992, 61% of kindergartens were employing 40% or more trained teachers, thus achieving the first of the successive targets I mentioned earlier.
Expenditure on kindergartens
All this has not been achieved without substantial public expenditure. Total expenditure on kindergartens for the 1992-93 school year will reach $165 million. This includes direct financial assistance to non-profit-making kindergartens through refunds of rent and rates, and to needy parents through fee remissions, as well as funds to run fully subsidized teacher training courses for almost 700 trainees.
The provision for fee remissions, at $41 million, includes a substantial increase of $15 million approved by the Finance Committee of this Council only last month. This represented a 37% increase over the original provision, and has increased the proportion of kindergarten pupils who are able to benefit from the fee remission scheme from 5% to 8%. When our present plans to bring the points system for kindergarten fee remissions in line with that for senior secondary students are fully implemented in five years' time, the provision will have increased to over $100 million at today's prices. This will further increase the proportion of kindergarten pupils benefiting from fee remissions to a substantial 16%.
Further planned improvements
I believe that even our staunchest critics will agree that these are real and substantial improvements. I also believe that, in seeking to do more and better, they share with us a common objective, namely to improve the quality of kindergarten education.
As many Members have rightly observed, the key to higher quality lies in increasing the proportion of trained teachers in kindergartens. This in turn depends on the ability and willingness of kindergarten operators to pay the appropriate salaries. Our present policy seeks to bring this about. Both the Working Party on Kindergarten Education and the Education Commission have recommended a two-pronged approach, namely that we should introduce statutory staffing requirements to reach the 40%, 60% and 85% trained teacher
1712 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 3 February 1993
targets progressively, but only if funding for the fee remission scheme is improved first, so as to ensure that parents will be able to afford the resulting increase in fees. Having made significant improvements to the fee remission scheme, we are now able to consider seriously the introduction of statutory trained teacher manning levels in kindergartens. Present indications are that it should be possible to stipulate a minimum proportion of 40% trained teachers in each kindergarten in 1995-96, taking account of the time needed by kindergarten operators to prepare themselves for this.
Further options
The motion before us suggests certain further means of achieving our objective, including a scheme to supplement kindergarten teacher salaries and eventually bringing kindergartens into the scope of subsidized education. The Administration is prepared to study these suggestions with an open mind. I hope others will do likewise. As of now, we have yet to be convinced that the best way of achieving our objective is to shift funding responsibility entirely to the public purse. There is growing evidence from experience elsewhere in the world that private sector initiatives can bring significant benefits to the quality of education, and that too much government control and intervention could stifle such initiatives. There must also be cogent reasons for which, whereas primary and, increasingly, secondary education is free and compulsory in many places, only one or two countries are subsidizing kindergarten education fully.
Philosophy apart, there are also the inevitable questions of whether we can afford to subsidize kindergarten education fully, and whether this will be a cost effective thing to do. Our rough estimate is that full subsidization of kindergartens would cost some $1.3 billion a year at today's prices. Bearing in mind numerous other competing demands for resources within the education programme area, we must consider very carefully and critically whether such levels of expenditure are both fully justified and affordable.
The way ahead
Prior to today's debate, I have already received specific proposals from a group of educational bodies, through Mr CHEUNG Man-kwong, on how the ideas embodied in his motion might be implemented. I have asked the Working Party on Kindergarten Education to examine those proposals in detail. Members will also be interested to know that the Education Commission has decided at its last meeting to take another look at the area of kindergarten education. The deliberations of the Working Party could usefully be fed into the Commission. The Commission could also usefully take into account the outcome of the research into pre-primary education which is being conducted by the Department of Education of the University of Hong Kong, under the auspices of the International Association for the Evaluation of Education Achievement.
HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 3 February 1993 1713 Conclusion
To conclude, Mr Deputy President, the Administration is already committed to making further improvements in the kindergarten sector. And we are prepared to look at other proposals with an open mind.
Thank you.
DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Mr CHEUNG, under the House Committee rule you have two and a half minutes for your reply.
MR CHEUNG MAN-KWONG (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, most Members speaking at today's debate are in favour of government subsidization of kindergarten education and support my motion. I am also very glad that Mr John CHAN will consider the views expressed by Members, including the proposal I put forth jointly with many educational bodies. Let me express my heart-felt appreciation.
I believe that the Legislative Council's decision today will be an extremely important milestone seen from the angle of education development. This is because the motion represents this Council's hope that the Government will adopt a policy of greater or lesser subsidization of kindergarten education, primary education and secondary education and make a reasonable commitment. Of course, this commitment is a commitment to development. Our decision will benefit millions of school children today and tomorrow, enabling them to receive higher-quality education. In the Honourable Albert CHAN's words, it will do infinite good.
During today's debate, the Honourable Timothy HA made some constructive comments concerning the point of bringing kindergarten education into the scope of subsidized education. I think that his comments are very noteworthy. I think that, even after kindergarten education has become a part of subsidized education, private kindergartens will continue to have immense viability if they serve a special and distinct group of children and apply unique educational ideas and methods. They will exist together with government kindergartens and subsidized kindergartens and become better through competition. I am in favour of diversity. I do not think that the subsidization of kindergartens will affect competition. As the community becomes better educated, different sectors will have different expectations of education, which will lead to special or unique demands for kindergarten education. If private kindergartens can meet these special demands, they will have a lot of room for development and the direction in which any such development will take will have to be reckoned with. Private kindergartens will therefore be able to continue to exist and grow. However, where the majority of the community is concerned, government kindergartens and subsidized kindergartens will provide a guarantee, an important guarantee of the quality of kindergarten education.
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As for government supervision of kindergarten education, it can be of a liberal and tolerant kind. It does not have to be rigid or dogmatic. It is not necessary to apply to kindergartens the kind of bureaucratic supervision of schools that was experienced in the past. What we need are liberal supervision and diversified subsidization, which will enable kindergarten education to start a pattern different from that of supervision and development of primary and secondary schools, just as the Honourable Eric LI suggested. In any case, Mr Deputy President, I wish to thank Mr Timothy HA and Mr Eric LI for their constructive comments. Even though it looks very likely that my motion today will be carried, this Council should give important consideration to their comments in setting the future course for kindergarten development. Thank you.
Question on the motion put and agreed to.
RETIREMENT PROTECTION
MR HUI YIN-FAT moved the following motion:
"That this Council urges the Government to seriously consider all opinions expressed by the public on the consultation paper "A Community-wide Retirement Protection System", including the Central Provident Fund Scheme as well as the protection of those who have retired and who are approaching retirement age; to expeditiously submit to this Council proposals on the community-wide retirement protection system; and to act as the final guarantor to bear the financial risks relating to these proposals, so that the people of Hong Kong can be provided with a properly designed retirement protection system."
MR HUI YIN-FAT (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, I hereby move the motion standing in my name. I am sure that the purpose of my motion is already very explicit in terms of wording and substantial meaning and that is to enable the Government, in the context of preserving the existing social welfare system and expeditiously putting in place a retirement protection scheme for local employees, to choose between the two critical options as follows. One option is for the Government to re-consider the setting up of a central provident fund system and to improve the existing social security scheme. The other is for the Government, if the proposed employment-related Community-wide Retirement Protection System in the consultation paper is to be mandatorily implemented, to bear the financial risk of acting as its final guarantor. This is not only my personal way of looking at the issue; it is the result of thorough discussion of the issue by both Members of this Council, and particularly members of the Manpower Panel, quite apart from being the focus of concern expressed by members of the public during the consultation period. I believe that the key to success this time around is whether the government approach to the issue of retirement of local employees will remain insincere and non-committal, as it has been in the past.