1 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL -- 1 July 1992 1 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL -- 1 July 1992 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL -- 1 July 1992 1 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL -- 1 July 1992 1
OFFICIAL RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
Wednesday, 1 July 1992
The Council met at half past Two o'clock
PRESENT
HIS EXCELLENCY THE GOVERNOR (PRESIDENT)
LORD WILSON OF TILLYORN, G.C.M.G.
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT
THE HONOURABLE JOHN JOSEPH SWAINE, C.B.E., Q.C., J.P.
THE CHIEF SECRETARY
THE HONOURABLE SIR DAVID ROBERT FORD, K.B.E., L.V.O., J.P.
THE FINANCIAL SECRETARY
THE HONOURABLE NATHANIEL WILLIAM HAMISH MACLEOD, C.B.E., J.P.
THE ATTORNEY GENERAL
THE HONOURABLE JEREMY FELL MATHEWS, C.M.G., J.P. THE HONOURABLE ALLEN LEE PENG-FEI, C.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE STEPHEN CHEONG KAM-CHUEN, C.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE MRS SELINA CHOW LIANG SHUK-YEE, O.B.E., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE MRS RITA FAN HSU LAI-TAI, C.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE HUI YIN-FAT, O.B.E., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE MARTIN LEE CHU-MING, Q.C., J.P. THE HONOURABLE DAVID LI KWOK-PO, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE NGAI SHIU-KIT, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE PANG CHUN-HOI, M.B.E.
THE HONOURABLE SZETO WAH
THE HONOURABLE TAM YIU-CHUNG
THE HONOURABLE ANDREW WONG WANG-FAT, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE LAU WONG-FAT, O.B.E., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE EDWARD HO SING-TIN, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE RONALD JOSEPH ARCULLI, J.P.
THE HONOURABLE MARTIN GILBERT BARROW, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE MRS PEGGY LAM, M.B.E., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE MRS MIRIAM LAU KIN-YEE, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE LAU WAH-SUM, O.B.E., J.P.
DR THE HONOURABLE LEONG CHE-HUNG, O.B.E.
THE HONOURABLE JAMES DAVID McGREGOR, O.B.E., I.S.O., J.P. THE HONOURABLE MRS ELSIE TU, C.B.E.
THE HONOURABLE PETER WONG HONG-YUEN, J.P. THE HONOURABLE ALBERT CHAN WAI-YIP
PROF THE HONOURABLE EDWARD CHEN KWAN-YIU THE HONOURABLE VINCENT CHENG HOI-CHUEN THE HONOURABLE MOSES CHENG MO-CHI
THE HONOURABLE CHEUNG MAN-KWONG
THE HONOURABLE CHIM PUI-CHUNG
REV THE HONOURABLE FUNG CHI-WOOD
THE HONOURABLE FREDERICK FUNG KIN-KEE THE HONOURABLE TIMOTHY HA WING-HO, M.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE MICHAEL HO MUN-KA
DR THE HONOURABLE HUANG CHEN-YA
THE HONOURABLE SIMON IP SIK-ON, J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE LAM KUI-CHUN
DR THE HONOURABLE CONRAD LAM KUI-SHING
THE HONOURABLE LAU CHIN-SHEK
THE HONOURABLE MISS EMILY LAU WAI-HING THE HONOURABLE LEE WING-TAT
THE HONOURABLE GILBERT LEUNG KAM-HO
THE HONOURABLE ERIC LI KA-CHEUNG, J.P.
THE HONOURABLE FRED LI WAH-MING
THE HONOURALBE MAN SAI-CHEONG
THE HONOURABLE STEVEN POON KWOK-LIM
THE HONOURABLE HENRY TANG YING-YEN, J.P. THE HONOURABLE TIK CHI-YUEN
THE HONOURABLE JAMES TO KUN-SUN
DR THE HONOURABLE SAMUEL WONG PING-WAI, M.B.E., J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE PHILIP WONG YU-HONG
DR THE HONOURABLE YEUNG SUM
THE HONOURABLE HOWARD YOUNG
THE HONOURABLE ZACHARY WONG WAI-YIN
ABSENT
THE HONOURABLE MARVIN CHEUNG KIN-TUNG, J.P. PROF THE HONOURABLE FELICE LIEH MAK, O.B.E., J.P.
IN ATTENDANCE
THE CLERK TO THE LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL
MR LAW KAM-SANG
Valedictory
HIS EXCELLENCY THE PRESIDENT: Good afternoon. It is nice to be here with you once again.
Mr Deputy President, Honourable Members, the day after tomorrow I leave Hong Kong Mr Deputy President, Honourable Members, the day after tomorrow I leave Hong Kong after five years as Governor and as President of this Council. I should not like to go without formally taking leave of the Members of this Council.
These have been five eventful years. We have had crises to face and problems to These have been five eventful years. We have had crises to face and problems to solve. But we have come through the crises well. And we have achievements as well as problems to record. Achievements which have seen the people of Hong Kong better provided for with health care and social benefits; with better educational
opportunities in an expanded programme of education; and living in an environment which is beginning, although only beginning, to be more cared for. We have a community which is more confident in itself and in its future; and we have an economy (much helped by the development of Southern China), which is the envy of many places in the world and the essential foundation of all our other achievements.
One of the marked changes in these past five years has been in the composition of this Council itself. Of the Council's 60 Members with, very sadly, one vacant seat, only 16 (one of whom is the Chief Secretary) were Members when I first presided over a meeting of the Council on 6 May 1987. Then it was less than two years since the first elected Members had taken their seats. Now, a majority of the Members of the Council are elected by one form or another.
There have been changes too in the way the Council carries out its business. It might perhaps interest you to recall that in the 1986-87 Session, the first of those over which I presided, the total number of questions asked of the Administration was precisely 153. So far during this Session, including later today, the number is 440. And even more striking, in the 1986-87 Session there were three motion debates. So far this Session the number is 33.
But one thing has not changed. This Council, and all its Members, exist to serve
the interests of the people of Hong Kong. That is true of the elected Members, however elected. It is true of the appointed Members. It is true of the Administration, whether members attending or being Members of this Council. And it is true, no less, of the Governor as the Council's President.
That determination to serve the whole community of Hong Kong should remain at the forefront of our minds. There will be discussion and argument. It is right that there should be. There will be much explanation and answering of questions to be done by the Administration. It is right that they should. But argument and
discussion; questioning and explanation should not take place for their own sakes. They are a means of getting to the objective -- the objective of doing what is right and what is best for the people of Hong Kong. I am sure that, as this Council moves forward to reorganize the way it conducts its own business, you will always wish to have this objective clearly in mind. We must not let discussions become the enemy of decisions.
I should like to pay a special tribute to the work of Mr John SWAINE who has fulfilled the role of Deputy President since October last year. He has presided over the work of this Council with fairness, dignity and with patience. His role as a stepping stone in the historical evolution of the work of the Council should never be forgotten.
I should like also to thank all of you, the Members of this Council, for the work I should like also to thank all of you, the Members of this Council, for the work you all do on behalf of the community. You work long hours; you have to master complex subjects and pieces of legislation; and you have to keep constantly in mind the interests and the needs of the community. Yours is an important role, now and for the future. In carrying it out you have my very best wishes. Although not here to see it, I shall read and learn with intense, and supportive interest about what you do.
So very best wishes to you all. So very best wishes to you all.
Thank you.
DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Mr President, I am honoured to make this valedictory speech on the occasion of your retirement as Governor of Hong Kong and President of the Legislative Council.
Today's Council is a very differently constituted body from that in 1987 when Today's Council is a very differently constituted body from that in 1987 when you first assumed office, with a preponderance then of official and appointed Members, and with no directly elected Members. There was of course no Deputy President.
But I think it is true to say that the spirit which motivates this Council is But I think it is true to say that the spirit which motivates this Council is the same now as it was then. Every Member of this Council, irrespective of personal or political persuasion, is dedicated to making the system work, for the good of Hong Kong and its people.
The past five years have been critical ones for Hong Kong and the burdens of your The past five years have been critical ones for Hong Kong and the burdens of your office must have been crushing at times.
You have had to be Hong Kong's champion, sometimes against London, always within the confines of the Joint Declaration, recognizing China's legitimate expectations under that treaty. The job has required skill, infinite patience, and the ability to know where to draw the line against others in defence of Hong Kong's interests.
You were truly Hong Kong's champion when you pleaded its cause in England in June 1989 for British passports; you had to say things in Hong Kong's interests that Britain did not always want to hear and ask for something it had always before refused to give.
But I think it was the agreement with China on the new airport which truly tested But I think it was the agreement with China on the new airport which truly tested your skills and must have come close to exhausting your reservoir of patience. You knew where the line should be drawn, you drew it, and the line held.
The new airport together with its associated works, which will have such an immense impact on Hong Kong, will be a lasting tribute to your governorship.
We offer you and Lady WILSON our best wishes for the years ahead. I will not say in your retirement, because I know you will not really have retired. I am sure you will be active in promoting Hong Kong's interests and that in the House of Lords in particular you will continue to champion Hong Kong's cause.
Borrowing from the words of our yearly motion, Sir, thank you.
HIS EXCELLENCY THE PRESIDENT: Thank you very much.
HIS EXCELLENCY THE PRESIDENT: And now in accordance with Standing Orders I adjourn this Council. Thank you.
Council gave His Excellency the President a standing ovation. Adjourned accordingly at nineteen minutes to Three o'clock.
OFFICIAL RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
Wednesday, 1 July 1992
The Council met at sixteen minutes past Three o'clock
PRESENT
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT
THE HONOURABLE JOHN JOSEPH SWAINE, C.B.E., Q.C., J.P.
THE CHIEF SECRETARY
THE HONOURABLE SIR DAVID ROBERT FORD, K.B.E., L.V.O., J.P.
THE FINANCIAL SECRETARY
THE HONOURABLE NATHANIEL WILLIAM HAMISH MACLEOD, C.B.E., J.P.
THE ATTORNEY GENERAL
THE HONOURABLE JEREMY FELL MATHEWS, C.M.G., J.P. THE HONOURABLE ALLEN LEE PENG-FEI, C.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE STEPHEN CHEONG KAM-CHUEN, C.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE MRS SELINA CHOW LIANG SHUK-YEE, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE MRS RITA FAN HSU LAI-TAI, C.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE HUI YIN-FAT, O.B.E., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE MARTIN LEE CHU-MING, Q.C., J.P. THE HONOURABLE DAVID LI KWOK-PO, O.B.E., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE NGAI SHIU-KIT, O.B.E., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE PANG CHUN-HOI, M.B.E.
THE HONOURABLE SZETO WAH
THE HONOURABLE TAM YIU-CHUNG
THE HONOURABLE ANDREW WONG WANG-FAT, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE LAU WONG-FAT, O.B.E., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE EDWARD HO SING-TIN, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE RONALD JOSEPH ARCULLI, J.P.
THE HONOURABLE MARTIN GILBERT BARROW, O.B.E., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE MRS PEGGY LAM, M.B.E., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE MRS MIRIAM LAU KIN-YEE, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE LAU WAH-SUM, O.B.E., J.P.
DR THE HONOURABLE LEONG CHE-HUNG, O.B.E.
THE HONOURABLE JAMES DAVID McGREGOR, O.B.E., I.S.O., J.P. THE HONOURABLE MRS ELSIE TU, C.B.E.
THE HONOURABLE PETER WONG HONG-YUEN, J.P.
THE HONOURABLE ALBERT CHAN WAI-YIP
PROF THE HONOURABLE EDWARD CHEN KWAN-YIU
THE HONOURABLE VINCENT CHENG HOI-CHUEN
THE HONOURABLE MOSES CHENG MO-CHI
THE HONOURABLE CHEUNG MAN-KWONG
THE HONOURABLE CHIM PUI-CHUNG
REV THE HONOURABLE FUNG CHI-WOOD
THE HONOURABLE FREDERICK FUNG KIN-KEE
THE HONOURABLE TIMOTHY HA WING-HO, M.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE MICHAEL HO MUN-KA
DR THE HONOURABLE HUANG CHEN-YA
THE HONOURABLE SIMON IP SIK-ON, J.P.
DR THE HONOURABLE LAM KUI-CHUN
DR THE HONOURABLE CONRAD LAM KUI-SHING
THE HONOURABLE LAU CHIN-SHEK
THE HONOURABLE MISS EMILY LAU WAI-HING
THE HONOURABLE LEE WING-TAT
THE HONOURABLE GILBERT LEUNG KAM-HO
THE HONOURABLE ERIC LI KA-CHEUNG, J.P.
THE HONOURABLE FRED LI WAH-MING
THE HONOURALBE MAN SAI-CHEONG
THE HONOURABLE STEVEN POON KWOK-LIM
THE HONOURABLE HENRY TANG YING-YEN, J.P. THE HONOURABLE TIK CHI-YUEN
THE HONOURABLE JAMES TO KUN-SUN
DR THE HONOURABLE SAMUEL WONG PING-WAI, M.B.E., J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE PHILIP WONG YU-HONG
DR THE HONOURABLE YEUNG SUM
THE HONOURABLE HOWARD YOUNG
THE HONOURABLE ZACHARY WONG WAI-YIN
ABSENT
THE HONOURABLE MARVIN CHEUNG KIN-TUNG, J.P.
PROF THE HONOURABLE FELICE LIEH MAK, O.B.E., J.P.
IN ATTENDANCE
MR ANTHONY GORDON EASON, J.P.
SECRETARY FOR PLANNING, ENVIRONMENT AND LANDS
THE CLERK TO THE LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL
MR LAW KAM-SANG
Member's motion
REDEVELOPMENT OF PRIVATE BUILDINGS
DEPUTY PRESIDENT: We will now resume the sitting suspended on 24 June and continue with the debate on Mr Ronald ARCULLI's amendment to Mr James TO's motion on redevelopment of private buildings.
SECRETARY FOR PLANNING, ENVIRONMENT AND LANDS: Mr Deputy President, a conservative estimate puts the number of buildings redeveloped by private developers over the past 20 years or so at about 15 000. While it is difficult to be precise about the future, we can expect urban regeneration in response to market forces to continue at much the same pace. As I have said elsewhere on several occasions, the existence of Metroplan in itself will not produce redevelopment; it will however provide the framework within which redevelopment will take place. Metroplan is therefore less a threat of disruptive change in the short term than a promise of a better living
environment in the longer-term future.
Redevelopment has two sides to it. On the one hand, it is the means by which the housing and living environment of many thousands of Hong Kong residents is continuously upgraded. On the other hand, it can be disruptive, and sometimes uncomfortably and worryingly so for some people. What we need to do, therefore, as is often the case in Hong Kong where fortunately private enterprise still takes the lead in many situations, is to ensure that it is given the free-est possible rein to go on with the urban upgrading process; while, at the same time, having adequate monitoring and adjustment processes in place to help minimize the adverse effects on those who are for various reasons not immediately able to derive the full benefits which redevelopment can normally be expected to bring people.
Although particular cases of difficulty come to public attention from time to Although particular cases of difficulty come to public attention from time to time, usually because of the failure of parties involved to agree over compensation or timing of removal, by and large the arrangements work well, and adequate monitoring and adjustment processes are in place to deal with imperfections as they emerge. Comprehensive control over private redevelopment would not therefore appear to be necessary. Indeed, if its introduction were to have the effect of discouraging
building owners and would-be developers from undertaking redevelopment which is quite possible, then it would achieve quite the opposite of what is intended. Rather than better controlled development, there would be less; and more people than at present would find themselves living in aging buildings slowly spiralling downwards into slum conditions. This is not, I am sure, what the advocators of greater control wish to see.
The planning and implementation of private development projects is largely a matter for the parties involved, that is, the owners of buildings and developers. The Government does not intervene in the negotiations which take place between them. This is not to say that there is no control at all over such projects however.
Property development is subject to lease restrictions as well as planning and building control. It must be in compliance with the lease conditions, which may or may not be capable of modification, depending on the particular circumstances. Planning permission may also need to be sought if the proposed development is not in compliance with the statutory town plan. And before building works may commence, the approval of the Building Authority must be obtained.
In describing the position of tenants, some Members appear to have underestimated
the extent to which the provisions of the Landlord and Tenant (Consolidation) Ordinance regulate the repossession of buildings by landlords for redevelopment; and to overlook the fact that amendments to the Ordinance are currently being considered by this Council.
Part I of the Ordinance provides security of tenure for the tenants of pre-war Part I of the Ordinance provides security of tenure for the tenants of pre-war premises. A landlord must apply to the Lands Tribunal if he wishes to redevelop his building. His tenants may apply to the Tribunal for a hearing and submit written representations. If the Tribunal agrees to the landlord's application, it will
normally impose conditions regarding the proposed redevelopment and requiring the payment of compensation to tenants.
Similarly, for post-war premises, a landlord wishing to redevelop has to obtain an order for possession from the Lands Tribunal. The Tribunal will not grant the order unless it is satisfied, for example, that the redevelopment will result in an increase in the number of dwellings over what exists or that the redevelopment is in the public interest. In granting an order, the Tribunal may impose conditions; and, in particular, it can order that compensation be paid to tenants.
As far as possible, landlords and tenants are encouraged to reach agreement on the amount of compensation payable. Where there is no agreement, a decision may be sought from the Lands Tribunal. For pre-war premises, the level of compensation determined by the Lands Tribunal takes into account such factors as the size of the accommodation and the controlled rent level. Generally, the system works smoothly and there are few disputes between landlords and tenants.
Tenants of post-war domestic premises affected by redevelopment are currently entitled to statutory compensation at the rate of twice the 1983 rateable value of the property and for removal expenses and loss of fittings. This affords tenants financial assistance to see them through relocation and provides a basis to enable the parties concerned to reach a settlement. It is always open to the landlord to pay a higher sum to make the process quicker. Since the current provisions were introduced in 1984, about 90% of the orders for redevelopment of post-war premises have been granted with the level of compensation being mutually agreed between the landlords and tenants.
As I have mentioned the Administration has already accepted that the existing provisions in respect of post-war premises are outdated. The Landlord and Tenant (Consolidation) (Amendment) Bill 1992, currently being considered, includes a
proposal to amend the statutory basis for compensation to a multiple of 1.3 of current rateable value. This would roughly double the level of compensation payable and bring it into line with what is being paid by owners where consent is obtained without recourse to the Lands Tribunal. For a flat of 600 sq ft the amount payable would be about $65,000, which should allow the recipient to rent similar accommodation for about six months. The Bill also provides for the adjustment of the method of
calculating the compensation by resolution of this Council.
Concerns about tenants' compensation are therefore being positively addressed and it is against this background that the thinking on the related matter of public housing assistance should be done. The Administration believes that priority in the allocation for public housing units should be given to those directly affected by public redevelopment and clearance programmes and those awaiting their turn on the general waiting list. Someone affected by private redevelopment should not be assumed to automatically qualify for public housing assistance.
At present, the Housing Authority offers people who become genuinely homeless, because of a natural calamity or redevelopment, transit centre accommodation, initially in Tuen Mun, pending investigation. Subject to vetting, which normally takes about two or three weeks, the homeless are offered temporary housing area space in the New Territories. Those who are already on the general waiting list for public rental housing can advance by six months in the waiting queue for their preferred district. As is well known, the waiting time for different districts varies. For example, in Tuen Mun, permanent accommodation may be offered in about six months. The time required for this processing fits reasonably well with the lead time for repossession. In addition, those eligible for compassionate rehousing will be offered permanent rehousing almost immediately.
Although the Housing Authority has decided to increase flat production for small Although the Housing Authority has decided to increase flat production for small households, the availability of such accommodation in the urban area will continue to be limited. It would not be equitable to meet demand for local rehousing arising from private redevelopment at the expense of those already in the queue.
The Administration recognizes the importance of accurate information on their The Administration recognizes the importance of accurate information on their rights and obligations being readily available to tenants affected by redevelopment, as well as to those whom they might ask to represent their interests, such as Members of this Council, district boards, agencies and so on. To this end, the provision of better advice and assistance is being considered. For instance, the Housing
Department is considering setting up a one-stop office on each side of the harbour where tenants could seek advice on the procedures for claiming statutory compensation, their eligibility for public housing and so on. Other possible improvements to co-ordination within the Administration could ensure that departments such as the Housing Department and Social Welfare Department are alerted to redevelopment proposals at an early stage.
Because of the terms of the original motion, I have concentrated on the situation as regards private sector redevelopment projects. In the light of the proposed amendment, I should like to add that a comprehensive review of the urban renewal process involving the Land Development Corporation has already begun and is due to be completed by the end of this year.
Mr Deputy President, the Administration is keenly aware of the need to strike Mr Deputy President, the Administration is keenly aware of the need to strike a balance between making sure urban regeneration and upgrading through private sector initiatives is not inhibited by bureaucratic controls and adequately safeguarding the interests of those who may be adversely affected by such projects. The existing arrangements provide a sound basis on which to maintain this balance and to consider refinements as and when they become necessary. Views put forward by Members in this debate will be carefully studied and taken into account in the review process. Thank you.
Question on Mr Ronald ARCULLI's amendment put.
Voice vote taken
DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Council will proceed to a division. The division bell will ring for three minutes and the division will be held immediately afterwards.
DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Would Members now please proceed to vote? I will check with Members before the results are displayed.
DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Do Members have any queries before the results are displayed? If not, the results will now be displayed.
Mr Allen LEE, Mr Stephen CHEONG, Mrs Selina CHOW, Mrs Rita FAN, Mr David LI, Mr NGAI Shiu-kit, Mr Andrew WONG, Mr LAU Wong-fat, Mr Edward HO, Mr Ronald ARCULLI, Mr Martin BARROW, Mrs Peggy LAM, Mrs Miriam LAU, Mr LAU Wah-sum, Mr Peter WONG, Mr Vincent CHENG, Mr Moses CHENG, Mr Timothy HA, Dr LAM Kui-chun, Mr Gilbert LEUNG, Mr Steven POON, Mr Henry TANG, Dr Philip WONG and Mr Howard YOUNG voted for the amendment.
Mr HUI Yin-fat, Mr Martin LEE, Mr PANG Chun-hoi, Mr SZETO Wah, Dr LEONG Che-hung, Mr Jimmy McGREGOR, Mrs Elsie TU, Mr Albert CHAN, Mr CHEUNG Man-kwong, Rev FUNG Chi-wood, Mr Frederick FUNG, Mr Michael HO, Dr HUANG Chen-ya, Dr Conrad LAM, Mr LAU Chin-shek, Miss Emily LAU, Mr LEE Wing-tat, Mr Eric LI, Mr Fred LI, Mr MAN Sai-cheong, Mr TIK Chi-yuen, Mr James TO, Dr Samuel WONG, Dr YEUNG Sum and Mr WONG Wai-yin voted against the amendment.
The Chief Secretary, the Attorney General, the Financial Secretary, Mr TAM Yiu-chung, Prof Edward CHEN and Mr CHIM Pui-chung abstained.
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT announced that there were 24 votes for the amendment and 25 votes against it. He therefore declared that the amendment was negatived.
MR JAMES TO (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, first of all, I would like to thank all colleagues. The motion debate last time went on until midnight. Today, after listening to the response from the Secretary for Planning, Environment and Lands, Members may still deliberate on the arguments advanced before deciding whether to support or oppose the motion.
Firstly, I would like to respond to a point made by the Secretary for Planning, Firstly, I would like to respond to a point made by the Secretary for Planning, Environment and Lands to the effect that redevelopment as a whole should be good for Hong Kong, the reason being that it would lead to a better environment and a better housing situation. I believe that all Councillors seated here will agree with this point. But our problem now is with the second point mentioned by the Secretary for Planning, Environment and Lands, which is the trouble and inconvenience caused to the dwellers. The Secretary for Planning, Environment and Lands said that, if
additional systems were to be introduced, developers would have no inducement to
undertake development or redevelopment, and the result would be more people living in very bad housing in a poor environment. Let us think. Will the people now living in a very poor environment really be able to move back to their former district, supposing that the redevelopment project is a success? In fact, no. They will only be moving to a neighbouring block where the environment is even worse. The reason is that, as demolition goes on, not many choices will be left. They are members of low income groups. They will only be moving to a smaller flat in a neighbouring block, where the environment is worse. They may be living now in rooms with wooden partition walls. In the neighbouring block, they will probably be living in "caged
accommodation". Thus, they will not be partaking of the fruit of redevelopment.
Another point made by the Secretary for Planning, Environment and Lands is that 90% of the people affected by redevelopment have filed claims with the court in accordance with the statutory procedure and have been paid certain amounts upon settlement. The Government suggests that the amount of compensation should be revised on the basis of a figure that is generally agreed upon. I have one point to make in response, which is that a Legislative Council group is now studying this matter. The base figure was set in 1983 and it has never been revised. This in itself already constitutes an injustice that has persisted for a long time. Where the base figure (the bottom line) for the computation of compensation is unjust and has been too low for too long, any outcome of bargaining surely cannot reflect the present reality. Let me give an example. I believe that, if the figure had been reviewed once every three or five years, what the Government would be proposing now would not be seven times the 1983 figure which is equivalent to 1.3 times the 1991 figure, but a higher figure. Therefore, I feel that the argument that the citizens or dwellers are willing to accept this rate of compensation is open to question.
Furthermore, the Secretary for Planning, Environment and Lands said that, upon the demolition of the buildings where they lived, people would not be allowed to move into public housing immediately even if they were eligible for public housing. His explanation was that immediate allocation of public housing would be at the expense of others already waiting in line for public housing. My answer to this is that those waiting in line for public housing probably still have homes in buildings that have not yet been demolished. Perhaps, when those buildings are demolished, this
triggering event will enable them, too, to move into public housing immediately. I feel that this is not too much to ask for. Nor is it a very grave queue-jumping problem. Redevelopment is neither a dweller's wish nor his choice. He is reactive. He wishes to continue living in his original home. But the building is going to be demolished.
This triggering event provides a justification for his being allowed to move immediately into public housing. Of course, if this is not to affect the chances of those already waiting in line, or if the intention is not to have any queue-jumper, then the long-term solution is to build more public housing.
I would like to make it known to the Housing Authority through the Secretary for Planning, Environment and Lands that some citizens used to think that they would be able to live in old buildings all their lives by paying a little rent money. Their motive was probably good -- they probably did not wish to take up public housing resources. That might be why they had not queued up, eligible for public housing though they were. The redevelopment of urban areas was a rude awakening to them. They queued up belatedly when their homes were about to be demolished. So they were given numbers which meant close to the rear end of the queue. Had they queued up 10 years ago, they probably would have moved into public housing already. They had not queued up sooner because they had a perfectly honourable motive -- they were thinking of others. It is precisely because of this failure to queue up that they are now suffering the effect of being without a home.
Finally, I hope that the Government will set up an ad hoc group to extensively consult the public. Concurrent with its effort to reasonably increase developers' efficiency and speed in redevelopment, the Government should also safeguard the interests of dwellers, particularly those in the low income groups. It is a fact that they have been made homeless by the present redevelopment. I also hope that, as the result of the ad hoc group's findings, the relevant policies will be improved and the relevant laws revised so that the social time-bomb that we now have will not go off.
Thank you.
Question on Mr James TO's motion put and agreed to.
Private Bill
First Reading of Bill
MIDDLE EAST FINANCE INTERNATIONAL LIMITED (TRANSFER OF UNDERTAKING) BILL
Bill read the First time and ordered to be set down for Second Reading pursuant to Standing Order 41(3).
Second Reading of Bill
MIDDLE EAST FINANCE INTERNATIONAL LIMITED (TRANSFER OF UNDERTAKING) BILL
MR DAVID LI moved the Second Reading of: "A Bill to provide for the vesting in Emirates Bank International Limited of the undertaking of Middle East Finance International Limited and for other related purposes."
MR DAVID LI: Mr Deputy President, I move the Second Reading of the Middle East Finance International Limited (Transfer of Undertaking) Bill.
This Bill is technical in nature and uncontroversial and follows the patterns of a number of other banking institution merger Bills introduced by me in recent years. I am pleased to report that the Bill has been circulated to the Commissioner of Banking and the Foreign and Commonwealth Office for their comments. They have approved the Bill.
A private Bill such as this is the most expeditious method of providing for the transfer of business of the Middle East Finance International Limited to Emirates Bank International Limited whilst assuring certainty to the customers and business associates of both institutions. This transfer comes about as a result of the
acquisition by Emirates Bank in November 1991 of 86.5% of the shares of Middle East Bank and in December 1991 of 35.5% of the shares of Middle East Finance International Limited.
Members may be assured that no stamp duty will be saved by this Bill. Both institutions are anxious to ensure that the stamp duty position shall be precisely the same as if no legislation had been enacted. There is no intention to avoid stamp duty by means of this Bill.
Mr Deputy President, I believe this Bill to be uncontroversial and in the interests of the institutions and their customers alike. I therefore move that the
debate on the motion be adjourned.
Question on the adjournment proposed, put and agreed to.
3.40 pm
DEPUTY PRESIDENT: That concludes the business of the sitting on 24 June.
OFFICIAL RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
Wednesday, 1 July 1992
The Council met at Twenty minutes to Four o'clock
PRESENT
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT
THE HONOURABLE JOHN JOSEPH SWAINE, C.B.E., Q.C., J.P.
THE CHIEF SECRETARY
THE HONOURABLE SIR DAVID ROBERT FORD, K.B.E., L.V.O., J.P.
THE FINANCIAL SECRETARY
THE HONOURABLE NATHANIEL WILLIAM HAMISH MACLEOD, C.B.E., J.P.
THE ATTORNEY GENERAL
THE HONOURABLE JEREMY FELL MATHEWS, C.M.G., J.P. THE HONOURABLE ALLEN LEE PENG-FEI, C.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE STEPHEN CHEONG KAM-CHUEN, C.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE MRS SELINA CHOW LIANG SHUK-YEE, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE MRS RITA FAN HSU LAI-TAI, C.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE HUI YIN-FAT, O.B.E., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE MARTIN LEE CHU-MING, Q.C., J.P. THE HONOURABLE DAVID LI KWOK-PO, O.B.E., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE NGAI SHIU-KIT, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE PANG CHUN-HOI, M.B.E.
THE HONOURABLE SZETO WAH
THE HONOURABLE TAM YIU-CHUNG
THE HONOURABLE ANDREW WONG WANG-FAT, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE LAU WONG-FAT, O.B.E., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE EDWARD HO SING-TIN, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE RONALD JOSEPH ARCULLI, J.P.
THE HONOURABLE MARTIN GILBERT BARROW, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE MRS PEGGY LAM, M.B.E., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE MRS MIRIAM LAU KIN-YEE, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE LAU WAH-SUM, O.B.E., J.P.
DR THE HONOURABLE LEONG CHE-HUNG, O.B.E.
THE HONOURABLE JAMES DAVID McGREGOR, O.B.E., I.S.O., J.P. THE HONOURABLE MRS ELSIE TU, C.B.E.
THE HONOURABLE PETER WONG HONG-YUEN, J.P.
THE HONOURABLE ALBERT CHAN WAI-YIP
PROF THE HONOURABLE EDWARD CHEN KWAN-YIU
THE HONOURABLE VINCENT CHENG HOI-CHUEN
THE HONOURABLE MOSES CHENG MO-CHI
THE HONOURABLE CHEUNG MAN-KWONG
THE HONOURABLE CHIM PUI-CHUNG
REV THE HONOURABLE FUNG CHI-WOOD
THE HONOURABLE FREDERICK FUNG KIN-KEE THE HONOURABLE TIMOTHY HA WING-HO, M.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE MICHAEL HO MUN-KA
DR THE HONOURABLE HUANG CHEN-YA
THE HONOURABLE SIMON IP SIK-ON, J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE LAM KUI-CHUN
DR THE HONOURABLE CONRAD LAM KUI-SHING THE HONOURABLE LAU CHIN-SHEK
THE HONOURABLE MISS EMILY LAU WAI-HING
THE HONOURABLE LEE WING-TAT
THE HONOURABLE GILBERT LEUNG KAM-HO
THE HONOURABLE ERIC LI KA-CHEUNG, J.P. THE HONOURABLE FRED LI WAH-MING
THE HONOURALBE MAN SAI-CHEONG
THE HONOURABLE STEVEN POON KWOK-LIM THE HONOURABLE HENRY TANG YING-YEN, J.P.
THE HONOURABLE TIK CHI-YUEN
THE HONOURABLE JAMES TO KUN-SUN
DR THE HONOURABLE SAMUEL WONG PING-WAI, M.B.E., J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE PHILIP WONG YU-HONG
DR THE HONOURABLE YEUNG SUM
THE HONOURABLE HOWARD YOUNG
THE HONOURABLE ZACHARY WONG WAI-YIN
ABSENT
THE HONOURABLE MARVIN CHEUNG KIN-TUNG, J.P. PROF THE HONOURABLE FELICE LIEH MAK, O.B.E., J.P.
IN ATTENDANCE
THE HONOURABLE EDWARD BARRIE WIGGHAM, C.B.E., J.P. SECRETARY FOR THE CIVIL SERVICE
MRS ANSON CHAN, C.B.E., J.P.
SECRETARY FOR ECONOMIC SERVICES
MR MICHAEL LEUNG MAN-KIN, C.B.E., J.P.
SECRETARY FOR TRANSPORT
MR YEUNG KAI-YIN, J.P.
SECRETARY FOR THE TREASURY
MR JOHN CHAN CHO-CHAK, L.V.O., O.B.E., J.P. SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION AND MANPOWER
MR MICHAEL SUEN MING-YEUNG, J.P.
SECRETARY FOR HOME AFFAIRS
MR ALISTAIR PETER ASPREY, O.B.E., A.E., J.P. SECRETARY FOR SECURITY
MRS ELIZABETH WONG CHIEN CHI-LIEN, I.S.O., J.P. SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE
MR CHAU TAK-HAY, J.P.
SECRETARY FOR TRADE AND INDUSTRY
MR MICHAEL SZE CHO-CHEUNG, I.S.O., J.P. SECRETARY FOR CONSTITUTIONAL AFFAIRS
MR ANTHONY GORDON EASON, J.P.
SECRETARY FOR PLANNING, ENVIRONMENT AND LANDS
THE CLERK TO THE LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL MR LAW KAM-SANG
Papers
The following papers were laid on the table pursuant to Standing Order 14(2): Subject
Subsidiary Legislation L.N. No. Subsidiary Legislation L.N. No.
Immigration (Amendment) Regulation 1992.......................... 193/92 Immigration (Amendment) Regulation 1992.......................... 193/92 Legal Aid (Amendment) Regulation 1992.............................. Legal Aid (Amendment) Regulation 1992.............................. lation 1992.............................. 194/92
Legal Aid (Assessment of Resources and
Contributions) (Amendment) Regulation 1992................ 195/92 Contributions) (Amendment) Regulation 1992................ 195/92
Legal Aid (Scale of Fees) (Amendment)
Regulation
1992........................................................... 196/92 1992........................................................... 196/92
Legal Aid (Amendment) Ordinance 1991 (27 of
1991) (Commencement) Notice 1992............................. 197/92 1991) (Commencement) Notice 1992............................. 197/92
Telecommunication (Hong Kong Telephone
Company) (Exemption From Licensing) (Fees)
(Amendment) Order 1992............................................ (Amendment) Order 1992............................................ 204/92
Chinese Permanent Cemeteries (Amendment)
(No. 2) Rules
1992....................................................... 205/92 1992....................................................... 205/92
Antiquities and Monuments (Declaration of
Historical Building) (No. 2) Notice 1992........................ Historical Building) (No. 2) Notice 1992........................ 206/92
Sessional Papers 1991-92
No. 82 -- No. 82 -- Report of changes to the approved estimates of Report of changes to the approved estimates of
expenditure approved during the final quarter
of 1991-92
Public Finance Ordinance : Section 8
No. 83 -- No. 83 -- Statement of Accounts and Report on Statement of Accounts and Report on
the Administration of the Travel Agents' Reserve
Fund for the year ended 31 March 1991
No. 84 -- No. 84 -- Construction Industry Training Authority Construction Industry Training Authority
Annual Report 1991
No. 85 -- No. 85 -- Clothing Industry Training A Clothing Industry Training A Clothing Industry Training Authority uthority
Annual Report 1991
DEPUTY PRESIDENT: We now proceed to the business of today's sitting and we will start with an address.
Address
Report of changes to the approved estimates of expenditure approved during the final quarter of 1991-92
Public Finance Ordinance : Section 8
SECRETARY FOR THE TREASURY: Mr Deputy President, in accordance with section 8(8)(b) of the Public Finance Ordinance, I now table for Members' information a summary of all changes made to the approved Estimates of Expenditure for the final quarter of
the financial year 1991-92.
Supplementary provision of $4,619.7 million was approved. This included $3,022.3 million for the implementation of the 1991 pay adjustment and $589.6 million for a transfer of provision from the Hospital Services Department to the Hospital Authority. The supplementary provision was fully offset, either by savings under
the same or other Heads of Expenditure, or by the deletion of funds under the Additional Commitments subheads.
During the period, non-recurrent commitments were increased by $13.2 million, During the period, non-recurrent commitments were increased by $13.2 million, new non-recurrent commitments of $329.4 million were approved, and approved non recurrent commitments of $13.3 million were revoted.
In the same period, a net decrease of 3 193 posts was approved. This was mainly In the same period, a net decrease of 3 193 posts was approved. This was mainly attributable to the deletion of posts as a result of civil servants having opted for service with the Hospital Authority.
Items in the summary have been approved either by Finance Committee or under delegated authority. The latter have been reported to the Finance Committee in accordance with section 8(8)(a) of the Public Finance Ordinance.
Oral answers to questions
Bedspace apartment lodgers
1. MR FREDERICK FUNG asked (in Cantonese): Will the Government inform this Council 1. MR FREDERICK FUNG asked (in Cantonese): Will the Government inform this Council of the position in providing alternative accommodation for lodgers of bedspace apartments:
(a) the progress in the rehousing of elderly lodgers aged above 60; (a) the progress in the rehousing of elderly lodgers aged above 60;
(b) the progress in the provision of singleton hostels through voluntary agen (b) the progress in the provision of singleton hostels through voluntary agencies, and whether there are plans to boost the occupancy rate of certain hostels and increase the supply of hostels; and
(c) whether there are measures to assist the lodgers who are not eligible for (c) whether there are measures to assist the lodgers who are not eligible for compassionate rehousing or singleton hostels?
SECRETARY FOR HOME AFFAIRS: Mr Deputy President, since October 1990, as part of the Government's efforts to improve conditions in bedspace apartments, the Social Welfare Department has been conducting half yearly visits to known bedspace apartments to identify those lodgers who are aged 60 or over, or are recipients of public assistance. Alternative accommodation is offered by the Department to those who need it. Up to March 1992, 254 lodgers out of a total of 1 552 visited have been rehoused and in addition, 100 have been put on the waiting list.
In playing its role to improve conditions in existing bedspace apartments, the City and New Territories Administration (CNTA) has embarked on a programme of provision of singleton hostels. As of today, three singleton hostels have been completed. The first is run by the Agency for Volunteer Service and is situated in Wan Chai. It was opened in November last year. Two new hostels, one in Yau Ma Tei and the other in Kwun Tong, have just been established and applications for admission are being invited. These will be followed by another five hostels, including two provided by the Housing Authority, which will be brought into commission before the end of this year. By that time we will have eight hostels offering a total of about 240 places.
These hostels are intended for lodgers of existing bedspace apartments so as to provide relief to the severe overcrowding conditions in some of them.
Tak Nga House, the only hostel in operation offers 80 places but has only 20 lodgers. All genuine bedspace apartment lodgers, apart from those over 60 years old or taken care of by the Social Welfare Department, are eligible for admission into our hostels. There is a practical need to draw this line because to do otherwise will seriously compromise our capability to bring about improvements to the
overcrowding conditions in existing bedspace apartments. The CNTA will continue to search for suitable flats to provide more hostels.
Since lodgers in existing bedspace apartments are either eligible for rehousing Since lodgers in existing bedspace apartments are either eligible for rehousing offered by the Social Welfare Department or for admission into our singleton hostels, there is no need for other measures to be introduced.
MR FREDERICK FUNG (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, the former Secretary for Home Affairs, Mr Peter TSAO, told this Council last year that according to a survey by the CNTA, there were around 4 000 bedspace apartment lodgers at that time, of which 2 000 lodgers needed alternative accommodation. Of these 2 000 lodgers, 1 000 would be offered compassionate rehousing and the remaining 1 000 would be arranged
accommodation by the CNTA. But the reply the Secretary gave a while ago indicates that only 254 lodgers have been rehoused after a year and that there are only 240 new hostel places; accounting for a total of only 490 places. Given the figures provided by the former Secretary, there will still be a shortfall of 1 500 places or 75% of the required number of places. Could I ask the Secretary whether the
Administration will fulfil its commitment made in the past?
SECRETARY FOR HOME AFFAIRS: Mr Deputy President, my predecessor did inform this Council that according to estimates available at that time there would be a demand of around 2 000 places. But I must emphasize it was an estimate which was done at that time. Since then we have been able to do another survey and we are in the course of completing that particular survey. On the basis of information available to us, the demand for spaces is going to be less than what we estimated a year ago. And in any case, we have, during the last year, as I have said in the main reply, gone through the hardship cases and those who are over 60 years of age. The Social Welfare Department have visited over 1 500 of the lodgers in bedspace apartments and we have offered housing to 254 of them; another 100 have been put on the waiting list. As to the remainder, we have ascertained that some of them have, for example, been reunited with their family and moved to other accommodation, and the others have indicated that they are not interested in moving into our hostels. And so because of a combination of all these factors, the potential demand for new bedspaces is going to be drastically reduced and we figure that we will be able to take care of most of the demand by the time we are in a position to introduce legislation to control bedspace apartments.
MRS ELSIE TU: Mr Deputy President, in the last sentence of the answer we are told that one option for these lodgers is to accept housing offered by the Social Welfare Department. Is it not correct that this is invariably in the New Territories and these elderly people cannot accept because that would mean going far away from friends
and relatives and from all the places they know?
SECRETARY FOR HOME AFFAIRS: Mr Deputy President, yes and no. Of course there is housing available in the New Territories for compassionate rehousing but in terms of the programme that I have been talking about, for example, the Housing Authority will be making available flats in Cheung Sha Wan and Sai Wan Ho -- the very heart of the urban areas -- for the setting up of new hostels to be run by the Salvation Army and the Pok Hoi Hospital respectively. So there are choices.
MR FRED LI (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, we have visited some new singleton hostels and, to our surprise, the facilities provided therein are very up to standard. But with regard to a singleton hostel with 80 places in Wan Chai, only 20 persons moved in eight months after its commission. In view of the great demand for hostel places in Wan Chai District, will the Administration review its admission criteria to see whether it is too strict for single bedspace apartment lodgers to be qualified for admission?
SECRETARY FOR HOME AFFAIRS: Mr Deputy President, as I have said in my main reply, the criteria for admission is simple: that they are genuine lodgers of existing bedspace apartments. But I think Wan Chai, as we all know, is not a district which has a predominance of bedspace apartments. Most of the bedspace apartments that we have come across are mainly in the Kowloon area and so despite the fact that we have got over 80 places in Wan Chai, and despite the fact that we have received over 160 applications, most of these applications do not come from existing lodgers of
bedspaces; they come from tenants of tenement buildings, street sleepers and elderly people who do not qualify under our criteria. But I must say that the criteria we have adopted is simple and clear, that is to say, we want to reserve spaces in this sort of hostels in order to meet our requirements in relieving overcrowding in the bedspace apartments.
MR WONG WAI-YIN (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, has the Administration examined why some bedspace apartment lodgers have refused rehousing? Are there ways to solve
the problem regarding their reasons for refusal?
SECRETARY FOR HOME AFFAIRS: Mr Deputy President, I am afraid we do not have information about the general situation of refusal because we have not extended the scheme to bedspace apartments. But as I have said, we have covered those lodgers who are over 60 or who are in receipt of public assistance. Most of those who have turned down gave the reason that they are satisfied with their own existing conditions and I think in terms of rent, perhaps, there is a slight differential in that at the moment the average rent paid by them is about $300 per month whereas in the case of hostels which we administer we are charging around $330.
Theft of motor vehicles
2. MR CHIM PUI-CHUNG a 2. MR CHIM PUI-CHUNG a MR CHIM PUI-CHUNG asked (in Cantonese): In view of the public concern over the sked (in Cantonese): In view of the public concern over the problem of theft of motor vehicles, will the Government inform this Council:
(a) of the numbers of the various types of vehicles stolen and recovered since (a) of the numbers of the various types of vehicles stolen and recovered since the beginning of this year;
(b) among the vehicles recovered during the same period, how many had been lo ong the vehicles recovered during the same period, how many had been located in the Mainland and handed over to the Hong Kong police through the assistance of the Chinese Government;
(c) apart from China, which South-east Asian countries are also major m (c) apart from China, which South-east Asian countries are also major m apart from China, which South-east Asian countries are also major markets for vehicles stolen from Hong Kong; have the Hong Kong Police approached those countries for assistance; and
(d) what measures, including the deployment of additional manpower, have been (d) what measures, including the deployment of additional manpower, have been taken or planned by the Police to curb vehicle theft activities?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr Deputy President, 2 556 vehicles were stolen in the first five months of 1992. So far, 1 577 have been recovered. Details of the various types of vehicles stolen and recovered are given in an annex to this reply.
The police have asked the Public Security Bureau in China to help them trace the The police have asked the Public Security Bureau in China to help them trace the whereabouts of cars stolen in Hong Kong and to return them. However, no cars have been returned from China so far this year.
There is a demand for luxury vehicles throughout southeast Asia, in particular There is a demand for luxury vehicles throughout southeast Asia, in particular in Thailand and Malaysia. However, we believe that the smuggling of stolen cars into these countries has virtually ceased since a car smuggling syndicate was broken up in 1990. The police will however continue to liaise with the authorities in these countries through Interpol.
The police have taken a number of measures to counter vehicle theft. These include obtaining intelligence on vehicle theft and smuggling gangs, deploying the Anti Smuggling Task Force and other operational units against car smuggling syndicates, and conducting checks at road blocks and car-parks. Thirty-two stolen vehicles have been seized by the Anti-Smuggling Task Force in the first five months of this year. The police have also stepped up publicity to advise the public and vehicle owners of the need for adequate security measures. Car-park operators and building
management companies have been advised of ways to prevent car theft and to improve caretaker and watchman services. The police have also given advice to the motor sales industry on measures to improve security.
Annex
Vehicles stolen and recovered, 1992 (Jan-May)
(as at 26.6.92)
1992
Type of vehicles Jan Type of vehicles Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jan-May Jan-May
Motor cycle Stolen Motor cycle Stolen 86 34 61 55 48 284
Recovered Recovered 20 17 28 12 8 85
Private car Stolen Private car Stolen 355 333 247 350 355 1 640
Recovered 209 Recovered 209 204 161 207 182 963
Lorry/ Stolen Lorry/ Stolen 112 98 122 123 136 591
goods vehicle Recovered goods vehicle Recovered Recovered 94 84 106 101 104 489
Taxi Stolen Taxi Stolen 3 2 3 4 5 17
Recovered 3 Recovered 3 2 3 4 5 17
Public light St Public light Stolen 3 1 4 2 1 11
bus/van Recovered bus/van Recovered Recovered 3 1 4 1 1 10
Public vehicle Stolen Public vehicle Stolen - 1 - 2 8 11
e.g. bus Recovered e.g. bus Recovered Recovered - 1 - 2 8 11
Others Stolen Others Stolen 1 - 1 - - 2
Recovered 1 Recovered 1 - 1 - - 2
Total Stolen Total Stolen 560 469 438 536 553 2 556
Recovered 330 Recovered 330 309 303 327 308 1 577
MR CHIM PUI-CHUNG (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, we understand from the Secretary's reply that China is probably the largest market for stolen cars from Hong Kong. We may also say that Hong Kong may have made the unofficial world record for having the largest number of vehicles stolen. According to statistics done by the insurance industry, Hong Kong indeed suffered a loss of $212 million in car insurance in 1990, $244 million in 1991 and over $130 million during the first six months of this year as of yesterday. This has caused economic loss to Hong Kong and mental stress on car owners as well. Will the Secretary please answer the following: Firstly, has the Government probed into the reasons for the Chinese Government not returning any stolen vehicles to Hong Kong so far this year other than the return of 34 such vehicles last year? Secondly, how many prosecutions have been brought against car theft syndicates? What is the level of fines? Is the penalty too lenient and is a revision required?
DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Mr CHIM, you are not entitled to make a speech when asking a supplementary question.
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr Deputy President, I agree that China is probably the largest market for stolen cars from Hong Kong and in my answer I certainly did not intend to give any other impression. I do not have available comparative statistics for vehicles stolen from other countries. All I would say is that I am advised by the police that the problem of car theft and of export of stolen cars is by no means confined to Hong Kong; it is a worldwide problem. As regards the return of stolen vehicles from China, that is certainly something that we are asking the Chinese authorities to do. We have done that on a number of occasions. What I would say is that I believe that the present system of licensing vehicles in China does not enable them to identify these vehicles easily. But I also believe that the Chinese authorities are now introducing a computerized system for the registration of vehicles. This should enable easier checking against the details of vehicles stolen in Hong Kong, and I certainly hope that this will lead to the return of more stolen cars and indeed provide a deterrent against car theft and smuggling.
I think the last part of the question relates to prosecutions. Mr Deputy I think the last part of the question relates to prosecutions. Mr Deputy President, I do not have details of prosecutions, either for car theft under section 9 of the Theft Ordinance, or for taking a conveyance without authority under section 14 of the Theft Ordinance. I will provide figures for those separately in writing. (Annex I)
MR SETVEN POON (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, it is reported that Hong Kong vehicles smuggled into China have to be converted from righthand-drive to lefthand-drive. It is also said that a company in Guangzhou is specialized in this conversion engineering. Is the Government aware of the existence of this company? Is this company controlled by Hong Kong people? It is reported that all one needs to do is to get a telephone number, call somebody up, pay $30,000 and then the deal is done. Does the Administration know this telephone number?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr Deputy President, I have no information on the conversion of righthand-drive vehicles to lefthand-drive vehicles.
DR LAM KUI-CHUN: What measures are taken by the Government, Mr Deputy President, to
prevent stolen cars from being dismantled and used as spare parts and is there any estimate of the number of cars dismantled for this purpose in Hong Kong?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr Deputy President, we do not have any figures for the numbers of cars that might be broken down after being stolen and where the parts are either used as spare parts in Hong Kong or indeed smuggled overseas. Certainly, the police believe that some cars are broken down and are smuggled out of Hong Kong in parts in containers, and this is something that they are actively trying to combat.
MRS PEGGY LAM (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, the problem of car theft in Hong Kong has turned into one of outright car snatching (an incident as such happened only yesterday). Will the Administration inform this Council if there is any difference in law between car theft and car snatching? Is there any effective measure to present car snatching?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr Deputy President, it is difficult to give an answer to a question which is to some extent hypothetical; it would depend largely on the circumstances of the case. If violence was offered, then clearly some other offence may have been committed as well as theft. What I can say, though, is that very often it is not possible to charge people with theft because one of the elements of theft is the intention to deprive the owner permanently of his goods. And this is why we have separately on the statute book section 14 of the Theft Ordinance which concerns taking a conveyance without authority. That carries a maximum penalty of three years imprisonment. We do intend to review the penalty for this offence to see whether it should be increased.
Localization in the Legal Department
3. DR LEONG CHE-HUNG asked: The Legal Department recently announced that it 3. DR LEONG CHE-HUNG asked: The Legal Department recently announced that it envisaged that the employment contracts of some 200 overseas legal officers would not be renewed upon expiry. Will the Attorney General confirm that the posts thus vacated will be filled by promotion of local officers in the Department and that the consequential vacancies in the basic rank will also be filled by recruitment of local officers?
DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Dr LEONG, could I just clarify whether you meant 200 or 20 overseas legal officers?
DR LEONG CHE-HUNG: Twenty, Mr Deputy President.
ATTORNEY GENERAL: Mr Deputy President, I am most grateful for that clarification. You had me worried there for a moment.
Mr Deputy President, to put my answer in perspective, I would like to explain Mr Deputy President, to put my answer in perspective, I would like to explain the general position before addressing the two issues raised by Dr LEONG.
The Legal Department is one of the few government departments with a high percentage of overseas officers, particularly at senior levels. In line with the Government's overall policy of localization, two schemes have been set up within the Department. The first of these is the Double Ladder Scheme, established in 1988, under which up to 30 additional Senior Crown Counsel posts are provided for the promotion of local Crown Counsel with potential. The second is the Development Posts Scheme, set up last year, which allows up to 18 local Senior Crown Counsel to be selected for grooming for eventual promotion to directorate posts.
So far, the results of these two schemes are encouraging. Localization of Se So far, the results of these two schemes are encouraging. Localization of Senior Crown Counsel has more than doubled, from 23% in 1988 to 47% this year, and the rate of wastage of local officers in the Department has dropped significantly from 21.7% in 1988 to 6.7% in 1991. Although localization at the directorate level at this moment is still relatively low at 14%, under the Development Posts Scheme nine local Senior Crown Counsel are already acting in various posts at the directorate level, and three more will do so over the next few months. I therefore expect to see more local officers in the directorate in the near future.
In his question, Dr LEONG refers to the fact that the employment agreements of a number of overseas legal officers in the Legal Department will not be renewed upon expiry. An annual review of employment agreements of overseas officers is carried out by the Government. In the Legal Department's latest review, carried out in April of this year, the agreements of 65 overseas officers which will expire between October
1993 and September 1994 were covered. The Department has recommended to the Public Service Commission and to the Civil Service Branch that the agreements of 18 overseas officers at various ranks either not be renewed, or in certain cases be extended for up to one year only, as compared with the more usual two years.
This recommendation has been made having regard to the Department's projection that, as a result of the two schemes to which I have just referred, more local officers will become available for promotion to Senior Crown Counsel and directorate posts in 1993 and 1994. This is in accordance with the Government's long-standing policy that, when considering the renewal of agreements of overseas officers, the
availability of suitable local replacements must be taken into account.
I cannot, however, give the assurance that Dr LEONG seeks in his question. In filling posts at the promotion level, the Government's policy is to consider local and overseas officers on equal terms irrespective of their terms of appointment, since the overriding aim is to select the best person available. Although I cannot
guarantee that all the promotion posts which will become available in 1993 and 1994 will be filled by local officers, I am confident that a substantial number will be. Similarly, I cannot give an assurance that the consequential vacancies in the recruitment rank of Crown Counsel will all be filled by local candidates. The Government's localization policy is to give preference to local candidates at the recruitment level. However, if there are not enough suitably qualified local candidates to fill the vacancies, to maintain the level of service provided by the Department, applications from overseas candidates will then have to be considered.
DR LEONG CHE-HUNG: Mr Deputy President, I am grateful for the Attorney General's detailed answer. The follow-up question is: Can the Attorney General confirm that it is the policy of the Administration to secure commitment to the bilingual legal system and, if so, will he tell us what efforts are being made for the appointment of more Chinese judges and bilingual Crown Counsel to conduct trials in Cantonese?
DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Dr LEONG, I feel that is really outside the ambit of your main question, certainly as regards judges. Would you like to rephrase your question to bring it closer to the main question?
DR LEONG CHE-HUNG: Mr Deputy President, I will drop the word "judges" and just use Crown Counsel then.
ATTORNEY GENERAL: Mr Deputy President, certainly an ability to speak, read and write Chinese is an important factor when considering recruitment into the Department. That is particularly so when we are recruiting draftsmen to go into the Law Drafting Division where, as Members know, we are drafting laws in both languages.
MR MOSES CHENG: Mr Deputy President, would the Attorney General inform this Council whether the Administration will be prepared to consider creating more trainee solicitor positions within the Legal Department as one of the means to increase the availability of local candidates for appointment as Crown Counsel?
ATTORNEY GENERAL: Mr Deputy President, I am currently considering the whole framework under which we employ trainee lawyers within my Department. But I must put a note of caution down at this stage that I cannot give any commitment that there would be a substantial increase in the numbers.
Medical staff establishment
4. MR MICHAEL HO asked (in Cantonese): Will the Government inform this Council: 4. MR MICHAEL HO asked (in Cantonese): Will the Government inform this Council:
(a) of the crit (a) of the crit of the criteria on which the Hospital Authority works out the establishment eria on which the Hospital Authority works out the establishment of doctors and nurses required by various hospitals and the funding for their remuneration;
(b) whether the Hospital Authority will revise the existing establishment of the (b) whether the Hospital Authority will revise the existing establishment of the above-mentioned grades of medical staff in those hospitals according to the manning ratio proposed by the then Medical Development Advisory Committee when the present supply of such medical staff is improved; and
(d) if so, whether the Government will increase the fundi (d) if so, whether the Government will increase the fundi if so, whether the Government will increase the funding to meet the neces ng to meet the necessary expenditure; and if there is no additional funding from the Government, through what
channels can the Hospital Authority obtain the necessary funds?
SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE: Mr Deputy President, the answers, seriatim, are as follows:
(a) The present provision of doctors and nurses for individual hospitals had its (a) The present provision of doctors and nurses for individual hospitals had its origin in the actual number of staff in hospitals when the Hospital Authority took over the management responsibility for all public hospitals in December 1991. The provision is updated and revised as necessary based on the prevailing workload and the trend of demand for services in different hospitals.
(b) The ratios drawn up by the former Medical Development Advisory Committee (b) The ratios drawn up by the former Medical Development Advisory Committee (MDAC) are guidelines for reference and planning purposes. The planning ratios for doctors and nurses are not viewed in isolation but in the context of health care professionals overall. Since the planning ratios were last reviewed in 1987, based as they were on hospital beds, there is scope to review these ratios having regard to advances in modern technology and treatment procedures not only in a hospital setting but also in primary health care.
The Hospital Authority is itself developing a system to facilitate and complement the policy of decentralization of management responsibility to individual hospitals; the strategy and targets for individual hospitals; and the assessment of needs required to meet defined standards of services.
(c) The Hospital Authority has flexibility an (c) The Hospital Authority has flexibility an The Hospital Authority has flexibility and autonomy in the deployment of d autonomy in the deployment of funds. It may retain savings; it may adjust priorities in the better performance of its functions; it may submit proposals in the context of the Annual Resource Allocation Exercise. Any request for funding by the Authority is considered in the light of competing demands.
MR MICHAEL HO (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, in the first paragraph of her reply, the Secretary explicitly expressed that funding was based on the actual number of staff in hospitals when the Hospital Authority took over the management responsibility of them. It was, however, obvious that there was severe shortage of manpower when the Hospital Authority took over last year. Can the Administration advise this Council how it is possible for the Hospital Authority, upon revision of
the establishment, to have adequate funding to recruit more doctors and nurses in order to improve the present shortage?
SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE: Mr Deputy President, I think we must first have regard to the June issue of a newsletter by the Hospital Authority where it said that salaries for medical and non-medical staff take the lion's share of the Hospital Authority budget and that there are other areas of expenditure which occupy 9% of total expenditure. Members will recall that at the time of the Budget, the estimated expenditure to be voted to the Hospital Authority is $10.265 billion recurrent, which accounts for some 12% of the Government's total estimated recurrent expenditure for 1992-93 -- an increase of some $3.144 billion over the Hospital Services Department expenditure of 1991-92, which represents an increase of 44% over last year. It is no mean increase, and there is a lot of room to manoeuvre. As I said in the main reply, there is a lot of flexibility left to the Hospital Authority to deploy the funds within the vote allocated to it.
MR TIK CHI-YUEN (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, can the Administration advise this Council of the forecast supply and demand of doctors and nurses for the next three years? If supply is more than demand, does the Administration have any plans to recruit more staff to improve the provision of services?
SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE: Mr Deputy President, the intake of interns and nurses, in the last three years for instance, has shown an increase. To give some illustrative figures in respect of the public hospitals, in 1989-90 the number of interns recruited was 194, the nurses 1 033; in 1990-91, for the interns the number was 214, and for the nurses the number was 1 131; in 1991-92, the number was 202 for interns, 1 286 for nurses. So the trend is toward an increase and, as present figures show, we are into the scene of expansion. When I talk about public sector need, it also includes public sector primary health care provided by the Department of Health. To quote an example, we are still short of 1 273 doctors into 1996. I think we should, where necessary, encourage more people to take up the profession.
DR LEONG CHE-HUNG: Mr Deputy President, will the Administration confirm that the funding to the Hospital Authority in respect of personal emoluments in 1991-92 is
based on the actual staff strength at the date of takeover of the public hospitals by the Hospital Authority? And if so, will the Administration inform this Council whether the recently announced employment of a further 15 interns will lead to cuts in service in public hospitals in Hong Kong; and if so, what services?
SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE: Mr Deputy President, as I said in my main reply, the original estimate did take into consideration the strength as at the time when the Hospital Authority took over from the then Hospital Services Department. But additional to that, there was a generous splash of funding to cater for vacancies which were agreed at the time of preparation for the estimates. There are other areas of funding which allow a lot of room to manoeuvre.
Turning back to the question of whether there is sufficient funding to engage interns, I think the employment of staff working within the Hospital Authority is based on service needs, taking into consideration wastage and other factors.
DR CONRAD LAM (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, the Secretary mentioned in the first paragraph of her reply that the actual strength of hospitals was determined on the basis of the workload and the provision would be revised when necessary. Is the decision to revise the provision is made by individual hospitals or by the Hospital Authority? And is there flexibility in the timing of such revision or is it conducted rigidly once a year?
SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE: Mr Deputy President, according to the information provided by the Hospital Authority, the Authority is putting in hand a planning process which revises the whole manpower planning system, taking into account the policy of decentralization and devolution of management responsibilities onto individual hospitals. Therefore it can be envisaged that the new manpower planning system will be different from the past practice as adopted by the then Hospital Services Department and will be based on consultation of plans with individual hospitals to meet defined standards of performance. I should hope that, with the setting up of the Hospital Authority and with the provision of the functions for the Hospital Authority under the law, there should be a degree of flexibility. And certainly, it is good management sense to consult rather than to decide in isolation. DR HUANG CHEN-YA (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, the principal medical services
at Queen Mary Hospital and Prince of Wales Hospital are, at present, dependent on doctors from the universities. However due to the relatively lower remuneration, a lot of these doctors intend to resign. Can the Secretary advise this Council whether the Administration would increase the vote allocated to the Hospital Authority, thus enabling the latter to maintain the provision of these medical services?
SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE: Mr Deputy President, this is a very important question but may I seek a ruling from you that the question itself is hypothetical?
DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes, I think it is always a matter of degree, Secretary. I think the question is whether there is a policy to meet that contingency? If there is not, then you would say so.
SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE: Mr Deputy President, the question of university's remuneration package is very much the concern of the Secretary for Education and Manpower. I am well aware of the current sentiments of the lecturers and professors at the universities, and I am awaiting with equal anticipation the outcome of their discussion.
New airport capital cost estimate
5. MR ALBERT CHAN asked (in Cantonese): What was the estimated capital cost of the 5. MR ALBERT CHAN asked (in Cantonese): What was the estimated capital cost of the Chek Lap Kok new airport project when the Governor announced the $127 billion Port and Airport Development Plan in 1989? According to the information provided by the Government, the estimated capital costs of the Chek Lap Kok new airport project at November 1990, July 1991 and April 1992 were $38 billion, $43.6 billion and $46.3 billion respectively. Will the Government inform this Council of the works items covered by each of the above cost estimates, whether there are any variations in the works items covered by these estimates; and if so, what are they?
SECRETARY FOR ECONOMIC SERVICES: Mr Deputy President, the new airport cost estimates quoted in the question are correct. It is important to note that the estimates were
issued at various times over a period of nearly three years from 1989 to July this year. During this time the design and size of the airport have changed and have been developed from broad concepts to the detailed stage which has now been reached with the conclusion of the latest Master Plan Study. In the light of this, it is remarkable that the total cost estimates have been held so close to the original 1989 cost
estimate which, in 1991 prices, was $41.4 billion.
The $127 billion estimate for the Port and Airport Development Scheme as announced by the Governor in October 1989 was in 1989 prices and included an estimate of $34.7 billion for the airport itself. The airport cost was subsequently updated and announced as approximately $38 billion in 1990 prices.
The $38 billion cost was broken down roughly between $9 billion for site The $38 billion cost was broken down roughly between $9 billion for site preparation including the provision of utilities and $29 billion for all other facilities. The cost had been established in 1988 on the basis of the original airport master plan developed in 1982. The master plan concerned was for a much smaller airport since it had been designed to cater for air traffic growth only up to 1995, although a subsequent review demonstrated that the design could be made to cope with demand up to 2010.
The cost estimates of $43.6 billion given in July 1991 and of $46.3 billion g The cost estimates of $43.6 billion given in July 1991 and of $46.3 billion given in April this year are both in March 1991 prices and are based on the current approved master plan. This master plan provides for a cost-effective design meeting all international requirements and capable of coping with air traffic growth to the year 2040.
Like the original airport estimates in 1989, these latest estimates include all costs needed to open the airport in June 1997 with, initially, one runway only, including costs to be met by the Airport Authority, the Government and the private sector.
The increase in the latest estimate over that given in July 1991 results from the more accurate estimate of costs which has become possible since then because of the finalization of the Master Plan. Major master planning and engineering issues have now been resolved : the location of the passenger terminal and related
infrastructure have been settled and the availability of fill resources and mud disposal sites for site preparation works have been determined.
For the ease of reference of Members, I table in the Annex attached to this r For the ease of reference of Members, I table in the Annex attached to this reply a breakdown of the main elements of the cost as they were in July 1991 and as they now are.
Annex
ESTIMATED CAPITAL COSTS OF THE NEW AIRPORT
($M March 1991 prices)
July 1991 July 1991
Current estimate estimate Current estimate estimate
AA FACILITIES
Formation of land and
provision of Utilities 13,700 provision of Utilities 13,700 12,600
Terminal & equipment 11,300 Terminal & equipment 11,300 10,300
Airfield works 3,900 Airfield works 3,900 3,900
Ancillary works 1,600 Ancillary works 1,600 1,500
--------- --------- --------- ---------
Total construction costs 30,500 Total construction costs 30,500 28,300
Others (management
fees, and so on) 3,200 fees, and so on) 3,200 3,200
Total AA cost 33,700 Total AA cost 33,700 31,500
--------- --------- --------- ---------
GOVERNMENT FACILITIES 3,100 GOVERNMENT FACILITIES 3,100 3,100
TENANT FACILITIES 9,500 TENANT FACILITIES 9,500 10,200
--------- --------- --------- ---------
TOTAL CAPITAL COST 46,300 TOTAL CAPITAL COST 46,300 44,800* 44,800*
===== ====== ===== ======
*note: th *note: the $43.6 billion July 1991 cost was net of an estimated $1.2 billion of e $43.6 billion July 1991 cost was net of an estimated $1.2 billion of revenue expected by the Airport Authority prior to airport opening. The total capital cost was, therefore, $44.8 billion at that time.
MR ALBERT CHAN (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, in paragraph one of her reply, the Secretary said it was remarkable that the total cost estimates had been held so close to the original cost estimate. When the Governor announced the Port and Airport Development Scheme, I believe we were given to understand that the $34.7 billion cost covered the construction of the whole airport, not merely one runway. What is the actual variation between the difference in cost estimates and the difference in
categorization of works items? In saying this, I am referring particularly to the estimates announced in 1989. Since the Annex does not contain a breakdown of the prices given in 1989 and November 1990, it is difficult for us to grasp the variation in estimates. Could the Secretary please explain?
DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Is there in fact more than one question in your supplementary or is this all in reference to the additional runway, or the absence of the second runway?
MR ALBERT CHAN (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, I cited the absence of one runway only to illustrate the key point of my question. Is the minimal difference among the estimates, as claimed by the Secretary in her reply, a result of the inclusion of some works items? It is because we find it difficult to tell the difference in the absence of a breakdown of the 1989 and 1990 prices in the Annex.
SECRETARY FOR ECONOMIC SERVICES: Mr Deputy President, I will attempt to provide a breakdown of the 1989 and the 1990 prices in writing. (Annex II) Although I cannot be absolutely certain, my recollection is that the price quoted by the Governor in 1989 included the cost of opening the airport with one runway initially, but I will again clarify this in a written reply.
MR VINCENT CHENG: Mr Deputy President, in respect of the $46.3 billion estimated capital costs of the new airport based on March 1991 prices, is it possible for the Secretary to tell us roughly how much of this is to be spent on work not quite yet needed by 1997 but are included because of economy scale or technical reasons, given the concern of the public over the cost of the airport?
SECRETARY FOR ECONOMIC SERVICES: Mr Deputy President, as I pointed out in my main reply, the $46 billion estimate includes all the costs that are required to open the airport in June 1997. To amplify on that, I suppose the only additional cost that is, strictly speaking, not required is the additional site reclamation to provide eventually for the second runway; but we expect the second runway to be required by about the year 1999 and economies of scale dictate that it would be much more
economical to provide the entire site reclamation at this stage.
DR SAMUEL WONG: Mr Deputy President, the $46.3 billion estimated capital cost of the new airport is based on March 1991 prices. Could the Secretary for Economic Services give this Council an estimate in terms of money of the day prices, including possible financing charges and interest?
SECRETARY FOR ECONOMIC SERVICES: Mr Deputy President, in money of the day terms the total cost of the airport is $68.5 billion.
MR HOWARD YOUNG: Mr Deputy President, can the Government inform us whether the recently announced lower tender for the platform on second retendering will have any impact on the cost estimates shown in the Annex to the main answer?
SECRETARY FOR ECONOMIC SERVICES: Mr Deputy President, I am very pleased to report that based on the revised bids that have now been received, it would appear, subject to detailed evaluation of the bids, that most of the bids have come in within budget. I would add also that this exercise that we have gone through demonstrates quite clearly the Provisional Airport Authority and the Government's resolve to ensure that
costs are kept within the budget.
Filming of assemblies and cordoning off of public places
6. MR CHEUNG MAN-KWONG asked (in Cantonese): In view of the police action to film 6. MR CHEUNG MAN-KWONG asked (in Cantonese): In view of the police action to film and record public assemblies and processions held by citizens in recent years and to temporarily cordon off on occasions some public places as restricted zones and to use barricades to prevent the public from staging rallies and protests there, will the Government inform this Council of the following:
(a) the dates, places and occasions on which the police performed such filming (a) the dates, places and occasions on which the police performed such filming and recording work in the past three years, the purposes for which these records will be used and when they will be destroyed;
(b) whether such filming and recording will interfere with the citizens' right (b) whether such filming and recording will interfere with the citizens' right to hold peaceful assemblies and contravene the Bill of Rights Ordinance; and
(c) the criteria (c) the criteria the criteria which the police use to temporarily cordon off a public place which the police use to temporarily cordon off a public place (for example, in front of the headquarters of the New China News Agency) as a restricted zone and to film and record the activities of the participants in the assemblies and processions?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr Deputy President, the police do not keep records of the dates, places or occasions on which they have filmed or video-taped public assemblies and processions. I am therefore unable to provide statistics or other details of such filming or video-recording in the past three years. The police sometimes film assemblies or processions:
(a) for possible use as evidence in the event of a prosecution; (a) for possible use as evidence in the event of a prosecution;
(b) for possible use as evidence in the event of a complaint against the police; (b) for possible use as evidence in the event of a complaint against the police; and
(c) to enable police commanders to review police strategy and deployment, to (c) to enable police commanders to review police strategy and deployment, to ensure that such events are properly policed.
The film or tape will be retained only for as long as necessary for these purposes.
I am advised that the filming and recording of assemblies or processions does I am advised that the filming and recording of assemblies or processions does not conflict with the right of peaceful assembly guaranteed by the Bill of Rights Ordinance. It does not prevent or otherwise restrict participants from exercising their right of peaceful assembly.
In order to maintain public order during assemblies and processions, the police In order to maintain public order during assemblies and processions, the police may temporarily cordon off certain public areas. They do so in the interests of public order and safety, as provided for in the Bill of Rights Ordinance.
MR CHEUNG MAN-KWONG (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, will the Administration inform this Council whether it would cease to cordon off the area in front of the New China News Agency (NCNA) in order to protect people's right to hold peaceful assemblies? If not, how would the Administration ensure that people could hold
peaceful assemblies and stage protests in front of the NCNA so as to express their views freely, unlike, the present case of holding public assemblies at a distance far from the NCNA with their chances of protesting to the NCNA considerably reduced?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr Deputy President, the police must balance the requirements of allowing peaceful assembly and also preserving public order. The police have a duty to take lawful measures for preserving the public peace and regulating assemblies. This essentially is a matter for the police commander on the spot to decide what measures are necessary. These measures may in certain circumstances include the temporary cordoning off of certain areas.
MR ERIC LI: Mr Deputy President, in the reply of the good Secretary, three reasons are given for keeping the films and tapes. First of all, I am puzzled as to how they can use these tapes or films as evidence in court if they do not have record of the dates, place and location. For the first two reasons, there are surely some form of statutory or administrative time limits on or before which prosecution must be instituted and complaints lodged. In the case of the third reason, there should surely be at least a reasonable time limit, say, a year, for which these tapes or films will need to be kept by the police for the review of strategy. Will the
Secretary inform this Council what these statutory, administrative or reasonable time
limits are, or in the absence of such specific time limits, a reasonable time frame?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr Deputy President, I am not aware of any statutory time limits for these purposes. As I meant to indicate in my main answer, as soon as a decision had been taken whether or not to prosecute then the police would take a decision whether or not to destroy the tape. In practice, that would take priority over the other reasons.
MR LAU CHIN-SHEK (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, the Secretary said the police do not keep films or videotapes of public assemblies or processions. Nevertheless, when did the police start to have a filming crew? Would they also film other processions and assemblies, apart from filming protests against China staged in the vicinity of the NCNA? If not, why not? If yes, why is it so?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr Deputy President, it is my understanding that the practice of filming assemblies and processions is of very long standing.
MR ANDREW WONG (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, under which Ordinance is the police empowered to film public assemblies or processions? Does that particular Ordinance stipulate that filming or videotaping can only be carried out under the three circumstances set out by the Secretary? Is there a fourth or fifth circumstance which also allows the police to employ this practice? If there is no such Ordinance, that is, specifically stipulating the circumstances under which filming and
videotaping may be conducted, then is there a fourth or fifth circumstance as mentioned above? What are those circumstances?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr Deputy President, I do not believe that there are any statutory provisions relating to filming or video-recording.
MR MICHAEL HO (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, according to the Secretary's earlier reply, there are at present basically no statistics on such filming activities. Under such circumstances, which government officials are responsible for the control
of such videotapes or films? When will they be destroyed? If there is no control over these videotapes or films, would it be possible that some videotapes or films are not destroyed?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr Deputy President, as I said in answer to another question, this is basically left to the discretion of the police commander on the spot; after a decision is taken as to whether or not any prosecution should be taken or whether or not the film might be used in evidence, if it is not intended to keep the film or the video tape for that purpose, then the standing instructions are that the film or tape will be destroyed.
DR YEUNG SUM (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, would the Administration advise this Council whether the random cordoning off of certain areas as temporary restricted zones would create some sort of obstacle between the participants of assemblies and the police and stir up the sentiments of the participants? I recall that earlier the entrance of the Legislative Council Building was cordoned off as a restricted zone but when the barricades were removed, the situation was stabilized on the
contrary. Would the Administration advise this Council whether there is a need to cordon off certain places as temporary restricted zones? And has the Administration considered the impact of such an action?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr Deputy President, I think I said in answer to a previous question that the police must balance the need for the public to exercise its right of assembly against the need to maintain public order and public safety. The Public Order Ordinance is designed specifically for that purpose and that is how the police exercise their power, and it is a matter for the police commander in any particular case to decide what measures are necessary for that purpose, including possibly the temporary cordoning off of certain areas.
MR FREDERICK FUNG (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, in the third paragraph of his reply, the Secretary said the police may temporarily cordon off certain public areas. Would the Secretary inform this Council if such actions are carried out privately or announced publicly? Which government official is empowered to do this? Is there any specific procedure regulating his exercise of such power? If not, is his power
too great?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr Deputy President, in most cases the police have a very good understanding and relationship with those who are organizing assemblies and demonstrations and discuss such things with them as the route and the location of the assembly and these things are explained beforehand, and understood and complied with. Of course, there is the possibility of the occasional case either when the police do not get notice or when people go beyond what has been agreed and what the police consider to be in the interests of public order and safety.
DR HUANG CHEN-YA (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, the Secretary just now explained that the films and videotapes would be retained only as long as necessary. Would the Secretary inform this Council if the films and videotapes of the respective processions in 1991 and 1992 to commemorate the June 4 Incident have already been destroyed? If not, why not?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr Deputy President, I do not know. I will given a written reply. (Annex III)
MISS EMILY LAU (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, in his reply, the Secretary said the filming and recording of these peaceful demonstrations does not violate the Bill of Rights Ordinance. Would the Administration not admit that the police practice of recording these political processions is very intimidating? Also, would the
Administration advise this Council whether these videotapes would be handed over to the NCNA or the Chinese Government?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr Deputy President, I am sure that the police do not intend it to be intimidating. The purposes are those which I have given in my main answer and I believe they are perfectly legitimate purposes.
MR ALBERT CHAN (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, the Secretary said just now there are not any comprehensive records on the photographs taken and the videotapes made.
Can the Administration make comprehensive records of all photographs already taken and videotapes already made and then conduct a registration and investigation exercise? If these photographs and videotapes were found to be outside the three purposes specified by the Secretary earlier, would the Administration destroy all of these photographs and videotapes?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr Deputy President, no, that is not practicable.
MR MARTIN LEE (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, will the Administration advise this Council whether those photographs and videotapes would be handed over to the Special Administrative Region Government in future?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr Deputy President, I would have thought from the answers I had given that that could not arise. As I have said, the tapes are kept only for so long as is necessary for a possible prosecution; if they are not to be used as evidence in a prosecution, they will be destroyed. After the prosecution is
completed, they would also be destroyed.
Written answers to questions
Foreign exchange requirements by government departments
7. MR MARTIN BARROW asked: Would the Government inform this Council of the progress 7. MR MARTIN BARROW asked: Would the Government inform this Council of the progress in examining an appropriate methodology for government departments to book their foreign exchange requirements as soon as they have a known liability, in order to avoid exchange loss at the departmental level?
SECRETARY FOR THE TREASURY: Mr Deputy President, a working party led by the Finance Branch, and including representatives of the Monetary Affairs Branch, the Works Branch, the Treasury and the Government Supplies Department, has met a number of times to consider how best to protect the General Revenue from fluctuations in the foreign exchange market.
The main conclusions of the working party were that individual purchases below $10 million should be regarded as minor and no special measures were needed, but that purchases above that value were significant enough to warrant changes in existing procedure.
Specifically, the intention is that tenders likely to cost $10 million or more must -- with one important proviso -- be quoted in Hong Kong or US dollars only. It would then be for the tenderers themselves to decide whether and, if so, how to cover the exchange risk. We consider that it is more efficient and cost-effective for the private sector to manage exchange risks than the Government.
The proviso relates to those circumstances where such a restriction would result in a significant and unacceptable reduction in the degree of competition in the tendering process. In such cases, tenderers will be allowed to quote in currencies other than Hong Kong or US dollars. We would wish in such cases to protect the General Revenue either by buying forward on the open market or by booking our foreign exchange requirements at a fixed price with the Exchange Fund as soon as the contract is signed, as was done for the Tsing Ma Bridge contract.
The details of such arrangements are still being discussed with the Exchange Fund The details of such arrangements are still being discussed with the Exchange Fund and Treasury and I expect to finalize revised procedures shortly.
Airport Authority legislation
8. MR MARTIN BARROW asked: Will the Government inform this Council, with regard to 8. MR MARTIN BARROW asked: Will the Government inform this Council, with regard to progress in the preparation of legislation covering the Airport Authority: (a) of the drafting instructions issued; (a) of the drafting instructions issued;
(b) of the current status of the drafting; (b) of the current status of the drafting;
(c) of the expected date of completion for the drafting and when the Bill will (c) of the expected date of completion for the drafting and when the Bill will be introduced into the Legislative Council; and
(d) of the reason (d) of the reason of the reasons for the long time taken and the problems that have been fa s for the long time taken and the problems that have been faced?
SECRETARY FOR ECONOMIC SERVICES: Mr Deputy President, the answers to the questions raised are as follows:
(a) the drafting instructions for the Airport Authority Bill (the Bill) were (a) the drafting instructions for the Airport Authority Bill (the Bill) were issued in February 1992;
(b) drafting of the Bill is now at an advanced stage; (b) drafting of the Bill is now at an advanced stage;
(c) drafting is expected to be completed during the Legislative Council's summer (c) drafting is expected to be completed during the Legislative Council's summer recess. The aim is to introduce the Bill into the Legislative Council at the earliest possible opportunity in the 1992-93 legislative Session; and
(d) the Bill is an important and substantial piece of legislation. It is by no (d) the Bill is an important and substantial piece of legislation. It is by no means unusual for legislation of this nature to take some months to draft. We are not encountering any particular problems in framing the Bill.
Cost of Legislative Council questioning process
9. MRS PEGGY LAM asked: Will the Government inform this Council of the amount of 9. MRS PEGGY LAM asked: Will the Government inform this Council of the amount of public funds spent on the whole process, including all preparatory work, of branch secretaries attending Legislative Council sittings to answer oral questions, and providing replies to written questions, expressed as an average per oral and written reply?
CHIEF SECRETARY: Mr Deputy President, the cost of providing answers to Legislative Council questions varies, depending on the nature and complexity of the question and, in particular, the amount of research necessary to obtain the information requested.
Based on a sample of questions answered by Branch Secretaries recently, it is estimated that, on average, it would cost about $30,000 to provide an answer to an oral question; and $20,000 for a written reply. The cost includes staff cost and administrative costs such as photocopying, faxing, translation, and so on.
Cross-border criminal activities
10. MR ERIC LI asked: In reply to the Honourable Henry TANG's question at the 10. MR ERIC LI asked: In reply to the Honourable Henry TANG's question at the Legislative Council sitting on 6 May, the Secretary for Security indicated that the Royal Hong Kong Police Force and the Chinese public security authorities had made concerted efforts to combat cross-border criminal activities. Will the Government inform this Council:
(a) whether the Chinese authorities have put forward any requests to the Hong (a) whether the Chinese authorities have put forward any requests to the Hong Kong police for assistance to curb smuggling activities; if so, how many such requests have been received in each of the past two years; and
(b) whether the Hong Kong police have turned down any requests from China; if (b) whether the Hong Kong police have turned down any requests from China; if so, what these requests were and the reasons for rejecting them?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr Deputy President, the making of formal requests is not a feature of the arrangements for co-operation between the Royal Hong Kong Police Force and the Chinese public security authorities. It is not therefore possible to reduce the relationship to the statistics requested. Rather, representatives from the Royal Hong Kong Police Force and the Chinese authorities meet regularly to review progress in anti-smuggling operations, to discuss tactics and generally to co
ordinate efforts to tackle the smuggling problem. In addition there is frequent contact between operational staff, not only from the police but also from Customs and Excise, to exchange tactical information and intelligence on smuggling activities. Communication has been enhanced recently by the introduction of an anti-smuggling hot-line to facilitate the swift passage of information between the two sides. The result of this co-operation has been a significant reduction in the incidence of smuggling by speedboat in the last few months. The figures of speedboat sightings since February are as follows:
February 1 062 February 1 062
March 648 March 648
April 569 April 569
May 147 May 147
June 105 June 105
(Up to 28 June 1992)
Police training
11. DR CONRAD LAM asked: With regard to police training, will the Government inform 11. DR CONRAD LAM asked: With regard to police training, will the Government inform this Council:
(a) wheth (a) whether male and female police officers are given the same kind of training, er male and female police officers are given the same kind of training, particularly in shooting and skills in self defence; and how police training courses will be modified to fit in with the plan to let women police officers carry revolvers;
(b) in the (b) in the light of the increasingly powerful weapons used by criminals, whether light of the increasingly powerful weapons used by criminals, whether Government will place greater emphasis on shooting skills in designing police training courses; and
(c) whether regular reviews are made to ensure that police training programmes (c) whether regular reviews are made to ensure that police training programmes meet the actual needs of police officers in the discharge of their duties; if so, when the last comprehensive review was made and the areas covered; if not, whether and when the Government will carry out such a review?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr Deputy President, in general, all police officers are given the same training throughout their careers, with the following exceptions:
(a) at the Police Training School, women officers are taught the basic skills (a) at the Police Training School, women officers are taught the basic skills of handling weapons safely and of how to deal with armed persons. But they do less firing practices than their male colleagues; on the other hand, they receive more training in the skills required for dealing with women and children, both as offenders and as victims;
(b) only male officers receive continue (b) only male officers receive continue only male officers receive continued revolver training later in their car d revolver training later in their careers; and
(c) there are differences in the internal security training received by male and (c) there are differences in the internal security training received by male and female officers. Women police officers are trained largely in how to deal with large crowds comprising predominantly women.
The Commissioner of Police is now considering whether women police officers should be armed. If it is decided that women officers should carry firearms,
additional firearms training for them would be required.
Since 1986, the force has been implementing a plan to improve police shooting Since 1986, the force has been implementing a plan to improve police shooting skills. This includes training of additional firearm instructors, and the provision of additional and better-equipped indoor firing ranges. Training courses in shooting skills are regularly reviewed and updated.
All police training programmes are reviewed regularly to ensure that they meet All police training programmes are reviewed regularly to ensure that they meet actual needs. At any one time, about 10% of police training courses are under review.
No smoking areas
12. MR TIMOTHY HA asked: In view of the hazardous effect of smoking on heal 12. MR TIMOTHY HA asked: In view of the hazardous effect of smoking on heal MR TIMOTHY HA asked: In view of the hazardous effect of smoking on health, the th, the legislative measures already taken to designate certain public places as no smoking areas and the need to educate school children to refrain from adopting the unhealthy habit of smoking, will the Government inform this Council whether in addition to designated no smoking areas under the Smoking (Public Health) (Amendment) Ordinance 1992 (Ord. No. 9 of 1992), the Government has considered designating other areas, in particular, school premises, as no smoking areas; and if not, why not?
SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE: Mr Deputy President, the Government's policy is to discourage people from smoking. The approach is progressive and pragmatic, having regard to public attitudes and trends overseas. It relies on legislation, prevention and education to achieve its aims.
The various measures introduced by the Smoking (Public Health) (Amendment) Ordinance 1992 were formulated after careful consideration of public response to a consultation exercise in 1989. Among these measures, the further prohibition on smoking in public places and all public transport carriers will take effect when the grace period expires on 1 August 1992. The designation of additional public places as no smoking areas will be considered in the light of public response to the current package of measures.
As regards school premises, smoking has all along been prevented through administrative arrangements. First, the Education Department regularly issues circulars to remind all schools of the Government's anti-smoking policy. Teaching and non-teaching staff are requested to refrain from smoking in schools. We think
that by acting as good role models, teachers can inculcate proper social behaviour among those in their charge. Secondly, every school invariably has regulations to prohibit students from smoking on school premises. This enables closer control than through legislation.
A major weapon in the Government's anti-smoking arsenal is education. This tackles the problem at its root and is aimed particularly at the young. The objective is to make people aware of the health hazards associated with smoking. Both primary and secondary schools now include anti-smoking elements in their curricula.
Outside the classroom, the Hong Kong Council on Smoking and Health delivers regular health talks and targets general publicity at school pupils. With a $2 million grant from the Royal Hong Kong Jockey Club, the Council has recently completed a year-long youth project in collaboration with the Community Youth Club of the Education Department. More than 500 schools have taken part in its various activities. Hundreds of thousands of students have been involved. Further initiatives will be forthcoming from the Council, with full support from government departments.
We are committed to an anti-smoking policy. We will shortly publish a We are committed to an anti-smoking policy. We will shortly publish a consultation paper on further measures to restrict the use, sale and promotion of tobacco products. Public views will be sought to shape the development of our anti-smoking policy for the future.
Basic Law promotion
13. DR PHILIP WONG asked: In view of the importance of converging with the Basic Law 13. DR PHILIP WONG asked: In view of the importance of converging with the Basic Law of the Government of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region to be established in July 1997, will the Government inform this Council:
(a) whether the (a) whether the whether there are any plans to promote the awareness of the general public re are any plans to promote the awareness of the general public and the civil servants of the Basic Law; if so, what these specific plans are; and
(b) whether consideration will be given to including the Basic Law in the cur (b) whether consideration will be given to including the Basic Law in the curicula of primary and secondary schools; if so, when relevant teaching guidelines will be provided to the schools?
SECRETARY FOR CONSTITUTIONAL AFFAIRS: Mr Deputy President, our main efforts to promote awareness of the Basic Law have been in the context of school education. For example, the Basic Law has been included in the Government and Public Affairs curriculum for Secondary IV and VII students since 1989. Meanwhile, the Education Department is developing a teaching kit on the Joint Declaration and the Basic Law, to assist teachers in presenting the two documents at secondary school level. This teaching kit will be ready for use in the next school year commencing September 1992. Also starting from September 1992, the Basic Law will become part of the Social Studies subject for Secondary I and III students and the Liberal Studies subject for Secondary VI and VII students.
Under the Community Participation Scheme, the Committee on the Promotion of Civic Education offer sponsorship annually to community organizations in organizing worthwhile civic education projects. In this context, the Committee offered sponsorship to the Hong Kong Christian Service in 1988-89 for a project entitled "50 years under the Basic Law" and in 1990-91 offered sponsorship to the Hong Kong Federation of Education Workers for the project "The Fundamentals of the Basic Law". The Committee is prepared to consider other worthwhile community projects on the Basic Law.
As regards promoting knowledge of the Basic Law among civil servants, the Civil Service Branch have embarked upon a series of China Studies Seminars to cater for civil servants at various levels. The Basic Law has been a subject frequently covered in these seminars.
Zero-emission cars
14. DR LAM KUI-CHUN asked: Will the Government inform th 14. DR LAM KUI-CHUN asked: Will the Government inform th DR LAM KUI-CHUN asked: Will the Government inform this Council whether it has is Council whether it has any knowledge of the introduction of zero-emission cars, for example, electrically operated cars, into Hong Kong in the near future; and if so, does it have plans to encourage car owners to change to this environmentally friendly type of vehicle and to discourage the use of diesel-engine vehicles?
SECRETARY FOR TRANSPORT: Mr Deputy President, at present, 48 electrically powered vehicles are licensed in Hong Kong. These are mostly special purpose vehicles such
as fork lift trucks and industrial tractors. Although trials have been conducted in recent years using battery powered passenger vehicles, such vehicles have not been introduced permanently because of high capital cost, the need for frequent battery recharging and the difficulties in operating them in local traffic and topographical conditions. The wider use of such zero-emission vehicles in future would therefore depend on manufacturers' ability to develop models that have high capacity and yet are technologically efficient and commercially viable.
Until then, the Administration have no definite plans to encourage the introduction of electric vehicles, but will continue to monitor technological advances elsewhere, aimed at reducing emissions from conventional engines and introducing new types of low pollution engines.
Resettlement of Vietnamese refugees
15. MRS RITA FAN asked: Will the Government inform this Council how many Vietnamese 15. MRS RITA FAN asked: Will the Government inform this Council how many Vietnamese refugees from Hong Kong have been accepted for resettlement by the United States, Australia, Canada and the United Kingdom respectively in the past three years; and whether each of the named countries has taken the number of refugees from Hong Kong to which they committed themselves three years ago, and if not, whether it is aware of the reasons and what is being done about the matter?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr Deputy President, the numbers of Vietnamese refugees accepted for resettlement from Hong Kong from 1 July 1989 to 31 May 1992 by the countries mentioned are as follows:
United States - United States - 4 224
Australia - Australia - 2 884
Canada - Canada - 4 183
United Kingdom - United Kingdom - 1 800
The pledges of resettlement made in 1989 and revised by United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees in 1990 related to the region as a whole, and not specifically to Hong Kong. We understand from UNHCR that all the countries mentioned have accepted or exceeded the numbers to which they are committed.
Banker's receipts
16. DR HUANG CHEN-YA asked: In view of the recent report of uncovered or fraudulent 16. DR HUANG CHEN-YA asked: In view of the recent report of uncovered or fraudulent banker's receipts issued by banks in India, will the Government inform this Council:
(a) how many banks in Hong Kong are supervised mainly by regulators in India; (a) how many banks in Hong Kong are supervised mainly by regulators in India; (b) how many banks in Hong Kong have branches in India; and (b) how many banks in Hong Kong have branches in India; and
(c) of the risks, if any, these banks (ref (c) of the risks, if any, these banks (ref of the risks, if any, these banks (referred to in (a) and (b) above) have erred to in (a) and (b) above) have been exposed to through the fraudulent banker's receipts and how this would affect the stability of the banks concerned?
SECRETARY FOR MONETARY AFFAIRS: Mr Deputy President,
(a) There are four licensed banks in Hong (a) There are four licensed banks in Hong There are four licensed banks in Hong Kong which are branches of banks Kong which are branches of banks incorporated in India. They are subject to the primary supervision of the Reserve Bank of India and the supervision of the Commissioner of Banking in Hong Kong under the Banking Ordinance.
(b) There is only one bank inco (b) There is only one bank inco There is only one bank incorporated in Hong Kong which has branches in In rporated in Hong Kong which has branches in India. It has not been affected by the problems in the Indian stock market.
(c) The Commissioner of Banking has been in touch with the Reserve Bank of India (c) The Commissioner of Banking has been in touch with the Reserve Bank of India with a view to identifying whether any of the Indian banks with operations in Hong Kong would be significantly affected by the problems in the Indian stock market. There have been no indications that the stability of any of these banks is likely to be affected. The Commissioner will, however, continue to monitor the situation.
Temporary housing area clearance programme
17. DR CONRAD LAM asked: With regard to the clearance programme for Temporary Hou 17. DR CONRAD LAM asked: With regard to the clearance programme for Temporary Housing Areas (THAs), will the Government inform this Council:
(a) of the number of THAs in the territory; (a) of the number of THAs in the territory;
(b) whether there is any general guideline on the maximum operational life span whether there is any general guideline on the maximum operational life span of a THA;
(c) how the order of priority for clearance of THAs is set; what the current (c) how the order of priority for clearance of THAs is set; what the current priority list is;
(d) whether sufficient resources are available for in situ rehousing (d) whether sufficient resources are available for in situ rehousing whether sufficient resources are available for in situ rehousing of the affected residents who will have to vacate their THAs under the clearance programme;
(e) whether there are any THAs which are still not included in the clearance (e) whether there are any THAs which are still not included in the clearance programme though they have already exceeded the maximum length of their operational period; when these THAs were built; and
(f) which departments are responsible for the delay; whether the delay in (f) which departments are responsible for the delay; whether the delay in clearing these THAs is due to the negligence of certain departments; and if so, what remedial measures would be taken to rectify the situation?
SECRETARY FOR PLANNING, ENVIRONMENT AND LANDS: Mr Deputy President, there are at present 60 Temporary Housing Areas (THAs) in Hong Kong.
The operational life span of a THA is not fixed, but is generally dictated by the timing of the development of the land for permanent use. Other factors taken into consideration are the age and condition of the structures in a THA, operational requirements and the availability of funds for clearance.
The priority for clearing THAs is reviewed regularly. Twelve THAs have been The priority for clearing THAs is reviewed regularly. Twelve THAs have been accorded priority for clearance in 1992-93. A list is at Annex A.
For many years, the Government has relied on the supply of new flats in the extended urban areas as reception accommodation for clearing THAs in Kowloon. People cleared from THAs on Hong Kong Island can normally be offered rehousing on the Hong Kong side; and the preference for rehousing in the same district in the New Territories can often be met.
As already pointed out, there is no "maximum" life span for THAs. The Administration's aim is to clear all part-built THAs completed before 1984 in the next three years. The majority of full-built THAs will also be cleared over the next five years. A list of the THAs against their completion dates is at Annex B.
There is no "delay" in clearing THAs as such because the pace of clearance is There is no "delay" in clearing THAs as such because the pace of clearance is determined by the interplay of the factors mentioned above. The continued existence of some older THAs is mainly due to the fact that the land is not yet required for development.
Annex A
Clearance Programme for Temporary Housing Areas
1992-93
Name of THA Year of completion Name of THA Year of completion
(1) Kai Cheung THA (Part) in Kowloon East (1) Kai Cheung THA (Part) in Kowloon East Kai Cheung THA (Part) in Kowloon East 1983
(2) Sheung Shing Street THA in Kowloon East (2) Sheung Shing Street THA in Kowloon East Sheung Shing Street THA in Kowloon East 1988
(3) Cornwall Street THA in Kowloon West (3) Cornwall Street THA in Kowloon West Cornwall Street THA in Kowloon West 1978
(4) Lai Chi Kok (4) Lai Chi Kok Lai Chi Kok Road THA in Kowloon West Road THA in Kowloon West Road THA in Kowloon West 1977
(5) Yuen Chau Kok (II) THA in Sha Tin (5) Yuen Chau Kok (II) THA in Sha Tin Yuen Chau Kok (II) THA in Sha Tin 1980
(6) Shuen Wan THA (Remainder) in Tai Po (6) Shuen Wan THA (Remainder) in Tai Po Shuen Wan THA (Remainder) in Tai Po 1982
(7) Sheung Shui II THA (5 blocks) in Sheung Shiu (7) Sheung Shui II THA (5 blocks) in Sheung Shiu Sheung Shui II THA (5 blocks) in Sheung Shiu 1982
(8) Tsing Hong Road THA in Tsing Yi (8) Tsing Hong Road THA in Tsing Yi Tsing Hong Road THA in Tsing Yi 1986
(9) Kwai Tai THA in Tsuen Wan (9) Kwai Tai THA in Tsuen Wan Kwai Tai THA in Tsuen Wan 1987
(10) Yick Yuen THA in Yuen Long (10) Yick Yuen THA in Yuen Long Yick Yuen THA in Yuen Long 1983
(11) Long Bin THA (Remainder) in Yuen Long (11) Long Bin THA (Remainder) in Yuen Long Long Bin THA (Remainder) in Yuen Long 1985 (12) Yuen Ha THA in Yuen Long (12) Yuen Ha THA in Yuen Long Yuen Ha THA in Yuen Long 1989
Annex B
Age of Existing Temporary Housing Areas
(As at 1.6.1992)
Part built/ Year of Part built/ Year of
Name of THA Full built Name of THA Full built Full built complet complet completion
1 Ping Shek 1 Ping Shek Ping Shek Part Built Part Built Part Built 1975
2 Fat Kwong Street 2 Fat Kwong Street Fat Kwong Street Part Built Part Built Part Built 1978
3 Tai Wo Ping 3 Tai Wo Ping Tai Wo Ping Part Built Part Built Part Built 1978
4 Shun Lee Tsuen 4 Shun Lee Tsuen Shun Lee Tsuen Part Built Part Built Part Built 1978
5 Cornwall Street 5 Cornwall Street Cornwall Street Part Built Part Built Part Built 1978
6 Shatin Tau 6 Shatin Tau Shatin Tau Part Built Part Built Part Built 1979
7 Welfare Road 7 Welfare Road Welfare Road Part Built Part Built Part Built 1979
8 Yuen Chau Kok a 8 Yuen Chau Kok a Yuen Chau Kok and extension nd extension nd extension Part Built Part Built 1980 Part Built 1980 9 Mui Lee 9 Mui Lee Mui Lee Part Built Part Built Part Built 1982
10 Sheung Shui II and additional 10 Sheung Shui II and additional Sheung Shui II and additional Part Built Part Built Part Built 1982 & 1987 1982 & 1987 11 Shuen Wan 11 Shuen Wan Shuen Wan Part Built Part Built Part Built 1982
12 Yue Wan 12 Yue Wan Yue Wan Part Built Part Built Part Built 1982
13 Yick Yuen 13 Yick Yuen Yick Yuen Part Built Part Built Part Built 1983
14 Kai Cheung 14 Kai Cheung Kai Cheung Part Built Part Built Part Built 1983
15 Yau Shing Stre 15 Yau Shing Stre Yau Shing Street Part Built Part Built Part Built 1983 16 Long Bin 16 Long Bin Long Bin Full Built Full Built Full Built 1985
17 Tsing Fai 17 Tsing Fai Tsing Fai Full Built Full Built Full Built 1985
18 Sha Kok Mei 18 Sha Kok Mei Sha Kok Mei Full Built Full Built Full Built 1986
19 Tsing Hong Road 19 Tsing Hong Road Tsing Hong Road Full Built Full Built Full Built 1986 20 Kai Lok and extension 20 Kai Lok and extension Kai Lok and extension Full Built Full Built Full Built 1986
Part built/ Year of Part built/ Year of
Name of THA Full built Name of THA Full built Full built completion completion
21 Fortune Street 21 Fortune Street Fortune Street Full Built Full Built Full Built 1986 22 Nam Fung 22 Nam Fung Nam Fung Full Built Full Built Full Built 1986
23 Hau Man Street 23 Hau Man Street Hau Man Street Full Built Full Built Full Built 1987 24 Wing Tai 24 Wing Tai Wing Tai Full Built Full Built Full Built 1987
25 Tsing Tsui 25 Tsing Tsui Tsing Tsui Full Built Full Built Full Built 1987
26 Kai Wo 26 Kai Wo Full Built Full Built Full Built 1987
27 Kwai Hong 27 Kwai Hong Kwai Hong Full Built Full Built Full Built 1987
28 Kwai Tai 28 Kwai Tai Kwai Tai Full Built Full Built Full Built 1987
29 On Yip Full Built Full Built Full Built 1987
30 Tsing Kin 30 Tsing Kin Tsing Kin Full Built Full Built Full Built 1987 31 Sheung On 31 Sheung On Sheung On Full Built Full Built Full Built 1987 32 Kwai Lok 32 Kwai Lok Kwai Lok Full Built Full Built Full Built 1988 33 Kwai Shun 33 Kwai Shun Kwai Shun Full Built Full Built Full Built 1988 34 Tseung Kwan O 34 Tseung Kwan O Tseung Kwan O Full Built Full Built Full Built 1988
35 Sheung Shing Street 35 Sheung Shing Street Sheung Shing Street Full Built Full Built Full Built 1988 36 Hing Tin 36 Hing Tin Hing Tin Full Built Full Built Full Built 1988 37 Kai Wang ai Wang ai Wang Full Built Full Built Full Built 1988 38 Tin Sam 38 Tin Sam Tin Sam Full Built Full Built Full Built 1988
39 Kai Chiu 39 Kai Chiu Kai Chiu Full Built Full Built Full Built 1988 40 Hau Yan 40 Hau Yan Hau Yan Full Built Full Built Full Built 1988
41 Kai Yuet 41 Kai Yuet Kai Yuet Full Built Full Built Full Built 1988 42 Tai Po Tau 42 Tai Po Tau Tai Po Tau Full Built Full Built Full Built 1988
43 Choi Chuk 43 Choi Chuk Choi Chuk Full Built Full Built Full Built 1988 Part built/ Year of Part built/ Year of
Name of THA Full built Name of THA Full built Full built completion 44 Tsing Yan 44 Tsing Yan Tsing Yan Full Built Full Built Full Built 1988 45 Yuen Tung 45 Yuen Tung Yuen Tung Full Built Full Built Full Built 1988 46 Hoi Bun 46 Hoi Bun Hoi Bun Full Built Full Built Full Built 1988
47 Kai Yiu 47 Kai Yiu Kai Yiu Full Built Full Built Full Built 1988
48 Sheung Tai 48 Sheung Tai Sheung Tai Full Built Full Built Full Built 1989
49 Shing On 49 Shing On Shing On Full Built Full Built Full Built 1989
50 Yuen Ha 50 Yuen Ha Yuen Ha Full Built Full Built Full Built 1989
51 Fat Tseung Street 51 Fat Tseung Street Fat Tseung Street Full Built Full Built Full Built 1989
52 Hing Shing 52 Hing Shing Hing Shing Full Built Full Built Full Built 1989
53 Tsing On 53 Tsing On Tsing On Full Built Full Built Full Built 1989
54 Tsing Fat 54 Tsing Fat Tsing Fat Full Built Full Built Full Built 1989
55 Lung Ping Road 55 Lung Ping Road Lung Ping Road Full Built Full Built Full Built 1990
56 Yuen Tin 56 Yuen Tin Yuen Tin Full Built Full Built Full Built 1990
57 Hing On 57 Hing On Hing On Full Built Full Built Full Built 1990
58 Yen Chow Street 58 Yen Chow Street Yen Chow Street Full Built Full Built Full Built 1990
59 Yuen Ping 59 Yuen Ping Yuen Ping Full Built Full Built Full Built 1990
60 Pok Fu Lam 60 Pok Fu Lam Pok Fu Lam Full Built Full Built Full Built 1990
Traffic congestion at border crossing points
18. DR PHILIP WONG asked: In view of the traffic congestion at the various border 18. DR PHILIP WONG asked: In view of the traffic congestion at the various border crossing points, will the Government inform this Council:
(a) whether assessment has been m (a) whether assessment has been m whether assessment has been made of the financial loss to Hong Kong as a r ade of the financial loss to Hong Kong as a result of these traffic congestions, if so, what the findings are; and
(b) whether consideration will be given to negotiating with China for the ope (b) whether consideration will be given to negotiating with China for the opening
hours at these border crossing points to be gradually extended to 24 hours?
SECRETARY FOR TRANSPORT: Mr Deputy President,
(a) The Administration has not made an assessment of financial loss suffered as (a) The Administration has not made an assessment of financial loss suffered as a result of traffic congestion at the border crossing points.
(b) Following recent discussions with the (b) Following recent discussions with the Following recent discussions with the Chinese authorities, it has been ag Chinese authorities, it has been agreed that, with effect from 1 July, the opening time of the three road crossings will be advanced to 7.00 am. From the same date, the closing time of the Man Kam To crossing will be extended to 10.00 pm for goods vehicles. The closing time of the Lok Ma Chau crossing will be similarly extended with effect from 1 December. All of this should help to spread traffic demand, thus easing congestion. We will
continue to monitor the use of the three crossing points and consider further extension of opening hours where necessary, subject to the availability of resources and the agreement of the Chinese authorities.
Taiwanese visitors
19. MR HOWARD YOUNG asked: With Taiwan being the largest visitor market of Hon 19. MR HOWARD YOUNG asked: With Taiwan being the largest visitor market of Hon MR HOWARD YOUNG asked: With Taiwan being the largest visitor market of Hong Kong, will the Government inform this Council:
(a) of the number of visitor arrivals from Taiwan in the past three years; (a) of the number of visitor arrivals from Taiwan in the past three years;
(b) whether it is aware of the number of Taiwan visitors transiting Hong Kong (b) whether it is aware of the number of Taiwan visitors transiting Hong Kong during the same period; and
(c) whether there ar (c) whether there ar whether there are plans to encourage these transit visitors to have a short e plans to encourage these transit visitors to have a short stay in Hong Kong by relaxing the visa requirement, including the waiver of visa requirement for short stay, with a view to promoting tourism?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr Deputy President, the numbers of visitors from Taiwan in the past three years are: 1.13 million in 1989, 1.34 million in 1990 and 1.29 million in 1991.
We do not know how many Taiwan visitors transited Hong Kong during the same period because transit passengers do not have to present themselves for immigration clearance.
We have simplified the procedures for the issue of visit permits to Taiwan visitors. Taiwan visitors may now obtain one-year or two-year multiple visit permits, which allow them to stay for up to 14 days on each visit. We will continue to review our visa requirements regularly, and to consider further streamlining and simplification of our procedures.
Special industries area
20. MR WONG WAI-YIN asked: With regard to the plan to set up a large Special Indust 20. MR WONG WAI-YIN asked: With regard to the plan to set up a large Special Industries Area in Area 38, Tuen Mun, will the Government inform this Council of the following:
(a) what industries are being perceived as "special industries"; how the (a) what industries are being perceived as "special industries"; how the Government determines which are special industries worthy of development;
(b) what facili (b) what facili what facilities will be provided to manufacturers in the Special Industries ties will be provided to manufacturers in the Special Industries Area; whether the Government will offer preferential or special conditions to manufacturers as incentives to set up factories in the Area;
(c) what criteria the Government will take into ac (c) what criteria the Government will take into ac what criteria the Government will take into account in selecting individual count in selecting individual manufacturer to set up factories in the Area;
(d) which government department or organization will be responsible for the (d) which government department or organization will be responsible for the management of the Special Industries Area; and
(e) what studies and consultation the Government has (e) what studies and consultation the Government has what studies and consultation the Government has conducted with regard to conducted with regard to the "Special Industries Area" Scheme?
SECRETARY FOR TRADE AND INDUSTRY: Mr Deputy President,
(a) "Special industries" are generally regarded as those industries having (a) "Special industries" are generally regarded as those industries having special characteristics in relation to site requirements and operations. Consultants appointed by the Government to undertake a development study of Tuen Mun Area 38 advised that "special industries" suitable for development there should be
capital-intensive, water-intensive and land-extensive, and should require deep water access and warehousing facilities or on-site storage for dangerous goods.
Examples of such industries include high value-added chemical and plastic resin manufacturing, food processing, building materials manufacturing, paper processing, textiles bleaching and dyeing, and bulk cement storage and distribution.
(b)(c) and (d)
The Special Industries Area in Area 38 Tuen Mun will meet the perceived demand for sites for low plot-ratio industrial development which are not readily available in other parts of the territory. The following facilities will be available in the Area : deep water wharfage, good highway access, efficient effluent disposal and good water supply.
At present, the Government is giving consideration to how the Area, when At present, the Government is giving consideration to how the Area, when formed, should be managed and how the sites should be disposed of. One of the options under consideration is to request the Hong Kong Industrial Estates Corporation to manage the Area. In formulating its decisions, the Government will take into account the recommendations of the consultancy study referred to under (a) above, the actual demand for sites and the needs of the industries concerned.
(e) As indicated under (a) above, the Government engaged consultants to study (e) As indicated under (a) above, the Government engaged consultants to study the development of the Special Industries Area in Area 38, Tuen Mun. The main findings and recommendations of the consultants' report were discussed by the Tuen Mun District Board in August 1990 prior to the publication of the report in October 1990. A draft layout plan based on the preferred development scenario was discussed by the Tuen Mun District Board in December 1991 and January 1992.
Motion
FACTORIES AND INDUSTRIAL UNDERTAKINGS ORDINANCE
THE SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION AND MANPOWER moved the following motion:
"That the Factories and Industrial Undertakings (Cargo Handling) (Amendment) Regulation 1992, made by the Commissioner for Labour on 4 June 1992, be approved."
He said: Mr Deputy President, I move the resolution standing in my name on the Order Paper.
The Factories and Industrial Undertakings (Cargo Handling) (Amendment) The Factories and Industrial Undertakings (Cargo Handling) (Amendment) Regulation 1992 was made by the Commissioner for Labour on 4 June 1992. In accordance with section 7(3) of the Factories and Industrial Undertakings Ordinance, I now move that the Regulation be approved by this Council.
Section 7(1) of the Factories and Industrial Undertakings Ordinance empowers the Commissioner for Labour to make regulations to ensure the safety of people in industrial undertakings. The Factories and Industrial Undertakings (Cargo Handling) Regulations were made in 1978. Following approval by this Council of the Factories and Industrial Undertakings (Amendment) (No. 2) Bill 1992 on 29 April 1992, the definition of "industrial undertaking" in the principal Ordinance has been expanded to include container handling so as to provide control of container handling activities in container storage yards which have hitherto fallen outside the ambit of the Ordinance. For the control measures to be effective, there is a need for consequential amendments to the Factories and Industrial Undertakings (Cargo Handling) Regulations to extend the coverage of the Regulations to include container handling as well. Hence the Factories and Industrial Undertakings (Cargo Handling) (Amendment) Regulation 1992 submitted for this Council's approval today.
In addition, the Factories and Industrial Undertakings (Cargo Handling) (Amendment) Regulation 1992 will require proprietors to ensure that containers are safely stacked, that the ground on which containers are stored is maintained in a level and firm condition, and that adequate precautions are taken to prevent persons from falling from the top of the containers. Proprietors who contravene these provisions shall be guilty of an offence and shall be liable on conviction to a fine of $10,000. At the same time, an employee who acts in a way that may endanger his own life or those of his fellow employees shall also be guilty of an offence and shall be liable on conviction to a fine of $10,000.
These proposed measures will go some way towards safeguarding the safety of These proposed measures will go some way towards safeguarding the safety of employees engaged in container handling activities. They have been endorsed by the Labour Advisory Board and supported by this Council when passing the Factories and Industrial Undertakings (Amendment) (No. 2) Bill 1992 on 29 April 1992.
Mr Deputy President, I beg to move.
Question on the motion proposed, put and agreed to.
First Reading of Bills
SUPPLEMENTARY APPROPRIATION (1991-92) BILL 1992
PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION (AMENDMENT) BILL 1992
MARINE FISH (MARKETING) (AMENDMENT) BILL 1992
Bills read the First time and ordered to be set down for Second Reading pursuant to Standing Order 41(3).
Second Reading of Bills
SUPPLEMENTARY APPROPRIATION (1991-92) BILL 1992
THE FINANCIAL SECRETARY moved the Second Reading of: "A Bill to approve a supplementary appropriation to the service of the financial year which ended on 31 March 1992."
He said: Mr Deputy President, I move that the Supplementary Appropriation (1991- 92) Bill 1992 be read the Second time.
Section 9 of the Public Finance Ordinance states that "If, at the close of account for any financial year, it is found that expenditure charged to any head is in excess of the sum appropriated for that head by an Appropriation Ordinance, the excess shall be included in a Supplementary Appropriation Bill which shall be introduced into the Legislative Council as soon as practicable after the close of the financial year to which the excess expenditure relates".
The accounts for the financial year 1991-92 have been finalized by the Director The accounts for the financial year 1991-92 have been finalized by the Director of Accounting Services. The expenditure charged to 57 heads out of a total of 77 heads is in excess of the sum appropriated for those heads by the Appropriation Ordinance 1991. This is because sufficient offsetting savings could not be found
within the heads concerned. In accordance with section 9 of the Public Finance Ordinance, this excess has been included in the Supplementary Appropriation (1991-92) Bill 1992 now before Members. The Bill seeks to give final legislative authority for the amount of supplementary provision approved in respect of particular heads of expenditure by the Finance Committee or under powers delegated by it.
The total net supplementary appropriation required in respect of the 57 heads The total net supplementary appropriation required in respect of the 57 heads of expenditure is $8,436.6 million. This excess is largely attributable to the implementation of the 1991 pay adjustment in respect of the Civil Service ($2,300.7 million) and government subvented organizations ($1,292.1 million). Other major contributing factors include the transfer of the management responsibility of public hospitals to the Hospital Authority with effect from 1 December 1991 ($3,039.2 million) and additional expenditure on pension payment ($559.7 million).
The cost of the 1991 pay adjustment and pension increase had been anticipated The cost of the 1991 pay adjustment and pension increase had been anticipated in the 1991-92 estimates under the "Additional Commitments" subhead. Savings were also made in other subheads through continued tight control over public expenditure, and I would like to thank the Controlling Officers and others who have contributed to restraint. Because of these savings and the provision made for additional
commitments, total expenditure for the year is within the sum appropriated in the Appropriation Ordinance 1991.
Mr Deputy President, I move that the debate on this motion be now adjourned. Mr Deputy President, I move that the debate on this motion be now adjourned. Question on the adjournment proposed, put and agreed to.
PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION (AMENDMENT) BILL 1992
THE SECRETARY FOR THE CIVIL SERVICE moved the Second Reading of: "A Bill to amend the Public Service Commission Ordinance."
He said: Mr Deputy President, I move that the Public Service Commission (Amendment) Bill 1992 be read a Second time.
The purpose of the Bill is to amend the Public Service Commission Ordinance
(Chapter 93) to exclude appointments and promotions of civil servants working in the Hospital Authority and the Vocational Training Council from the purview of the Public Service Commission.
In August last year, the Vocational Training Council took over the operational In August last year, the Vocational Training Council took over the operational responsibilities of the Technical Education and Industrial Training Department; and in last December, the Hospital Authority took over the operation of the Hospital Services Department.
Both bodies are empowered, under their respective Ordinance, to employ staff and Both bodies are empowered, under their respective Ordinance, to employ staff and remunerate them. Civil servants already in the departments have been given the option to transfer to the two organizations or to retain their civil servant status. As at the end of June 1992, 162 officers of the Technical Education and Industrial Training Department remain as civil servants. Officers in the Hospital Services Department have until 30 November 1994 to make their decision. As at the end of June 1992, about 30% of these staff had opted to join the Hospital Authority
On equity grounds, civil servants working in both the Vocational Training Cou On equity grounds, civil servants working in both the Vocational Training Council and Hospital Authority have been assured that they would have the same opportunities as direct employees of the two organizations for promotion. Accordingly, what is called a "Shadow Promotion Scheme" has been devised, to provide a mechanism for the creation of shadow posts and ranks to accommodate civil servants selected for
promotion by the Vocational Training Council or the Hospital Authority. Staff who feel aggrieved by such decisions may appeal to the management of the two organizations. Staff may also appeal to the Governor under Colonial Regulation 68.
In the circumstances, it is no longer appropriate or necessary to seek the advice of the Public Service Commission on promotion decisions. The Public Service Commission has been consulted and has agreed that it need no longer be consulted on promotions under the Shadow Promotion Scheme. However, matters relating to the conduct and discipline of staff remaining civil servants will continue to be subject to the advice of the Commission.
Mr Deputy President, I move that debate on this motion be now adjourned. Question on the adjournment proposed, put and agreed to.
MARINE FISH (MARKETING) (AMENDMENT) BILL 1992
THE SECRETARY FOR ECONOMIC SERVICES moved the Second Reading of: "A Bill to amend the Marine Fish (Marketing) Ordinance."
She said: Mr Deputy President, I move that the Marine Fish (Marketing) (Amendment) Bill 1992 be read a Second time.
The Marine Fish (Marketing) Ordinance provides for the Fish Marketing The Marine Fish (Marketing) Ordinance provides for the Fish Marketing Organization to prescribe in its by-laws a rate of commission for sales of marine fish in its wholesale markets.
In recent years, the Fish Marketing Organization's operating costs have risen significantly, largely reflecting general inflation, whereas the price of marine fish has not increased at the same pace. As a result, the commission earned by the Organization is no longer sufficient to cover its expenditure despite tight control over costs and the introduction of various measures to improve sales and streamline operations.
The Fish Marketing Organization foresees that the rate of commission, which has remained unchanged at 6% since 1956, will need to be adjusted from time to time having regard to its operating costs and overall financial position.
At present, any variation of the rate of commission requires an amendment to the Fish Marketing Organization's By-laws. Such amendments are required to be submitted to the Governor and are subject to the approval of the Legislative Council. This is an unnecessarily cumbersome means of prescribing a rate of commission decided upon by the Fish Marketing Organization.
The Marine Fish (Marketing) (Amendment) Bill 1992 seeks to amend the Ordinance so that the Fish Marketing Organization may, instead of prescribing the rate of commission in its by-laws, prescribe the rate by notice in the Gazette, after consultation with the Fish Marketing Advisory Board. This will streamline the procedure for prescribing the rate of commission whilst ensuring that any decision to change the rate is taken only after consultation with representatives of those who buy and sell fish through wholesale fish markets.
Mr Deputy President, I move that the debate on the Second Reading of the Bill Mr Deputy President, I move that the debate on the Second Reading of the Bill
be adjourned.
Question on the adjournment proposed, put and agreed to.
ROAD TRAFFIC (AMENDMENT) (NO. 2) BILL 1992
Resumption of debate on Second Reading which was moved on 29 April 1992 Question on Second Reading proposed.
MR HOWARD YOUNG (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, the Road Traffic (Amendment) (No. 2) Bill 1992 was introduced into this Council on 29 April 1992. It seeks to prohibit the use of vehicles used predominantly for displaying advertising except when the advertising is being displayed for non-commercial purposes, in which case the Commissioner for Transport may issue a permit subject to such conditions as he determines. The Bill also provides for a transitional period where permits issued under existing regulations for advertising vehicles normally for a one-year period will remain valid after the enactment of the Bill until their expiry date.
The ad hoc group set up to study this Bill held a total of three meetings, including two with the Administration. It also considered the views of the Association of Accredited Advertising Agents and the Association of Accredited Mobile Billboard Advertisers (AAMBA). After careful deliberation, the majority of the group
recommended that the Bill be supported as it stands.
Mr Deputy President, I would like to briefly highlight the major points consi Mr Deputy President, I would like to briefly highlight the major points considered by the group. The first involves the legal arguments against the ban on the advertising vehicles. In the representations from the AAMBA, it was argued that the total ban on the vehicles was both fundamentally unlawful and unneccessary because it would take away the personal right of every citizen in Hong Kong to express himself in the moving billboard medium if he so chose. It was further argued that as the legislation imposing the ban conflicted with Article 16 (freedom of opinion and freedom of expression) of the Hong Kong Bill of Rights (BOR) Ordinance, it would be repealed upon challenge in Court. The Administration's position on the BOR argument was sought and the group was informed that as there was as yet no established body of jurisprudence or precedent cases on the BOR in Hong Kong, reference must be made to international authorities to find an aid to interpretation. Referring to Article
19 of the International Convenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR) and Article 10 of the European Convention on Human Rights, the thrust of which is the protection of ideas, opinions and information and the freedom to seek and impart such ideas, opinions and information, the Administration advised that the emphasis laid by the authorities in relation to freedom of expression is upon the content of the idea or opinion expressed or information imparted rather than the means by which a particular opinion, idea or piece of information is expressed or imparted. The means of
expression is only protected in so far as it is a means which has an independent significance for the expression of the opinion. When mobile billboards are considered in the light of the authorities it is clear that they do not form a medium of independent significance. The message or messages that they convey can be published in many other forms; their expression or importation does not depend on mobile billboards as the sole or significant medium (for example, fixed advertising signs, billboards and posters, other forms of mobile advertisements on buses, trams, taxis, commercial vehicles, sandwich boards, other form of published advertisements in magazines and newspapers, on radio or television, flyers, leaflets, and so on). The Administration concluded that the ban on moving billboards does not conflict with the right to freedom of expression contained in Article 16 of the BOR. The group accepted the Administration's explanation and agreed that there was avenue for recourse in that any possible challenges arising under Article 16 could be left to be determined by the Courts.
The second point involves alternatives to a total ban. The group explored various alternatives to a total ban and was assured by the Administration that due consideration had been given to possible options. However, given the fact that the advertising vehicles served no transport function in using the roads (although they served an advertising and marketing function), posed a safety hazard to other drivers and pedestrians, caused congestion along busy roads during peak hours and caused enforcement difficulties for the police, the group agreed that alternatives such as the imposition of tighter permit conditions or setting up a special framework to implement self-regulation in this very small industry would not be viable solutions without having manpower and resource implications on already tight resources and other pressing priorities for the police. The group also takes note of the fact that cities like New York and San Francisco have already put an all-out ban on these vehicles.
Mr Deputy President, having received the explanations and clarifications of the Administration, everyone in the group saw a need to restrict the vehicles. Several