1 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL -- 13 May 1992 1 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL -- 13 May 1992 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL -- 13 May 1992 1 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL -- 13 May 1992 1
OFFICIAL RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
Wednesday, 13 May 1992
The Council met at half-past Two o'clock
PRESENT
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT
THE HONOURABLE JOHN JOSEPH SWAINE, C.B.E., Q.C., J.P.
THE CHIEF SECRETARY
THE HONOURABLE SIR DAVID ROBERT FORD, K.B.E., L.V.O., J.P.
THE FINANCIAL SECRETARY
THE HONOURABLE NATHANIEL WILLIAM HAMISH MACLEOD, C.B.E., J.P.
THE ATTORNEY GENERAL
THE HONOURABLE JEREMY FELL MATHEWS, C.M.G., J.P. THE HONOURABLE ALLEN LEE PENG-FEI, C.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE MRS RITA FAN HSU LAI-TAI, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE HUI YIN-FAT, O.B.E., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE MARTIN LEE CHU-MING, Q.C., J.P. THE HONOURABLE DAVID LI KWOK-PO, O.B.E., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE NGAI SHIU-KIT, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE PANG CHUN-HOI, M.B.E.
THE HONOURABLE SZETO WAH
THE HONOURABLE TAM YIU-CHUNG
THE HONOURABLE ANDREW WONG WANG-FAT, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE LAU WONG-FAT, O.B.E., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE EDWARD HO SING-TIN, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE MARTIN GILBERT BARROW, O.B.E., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE MRS PEGGY LAM, M.B.E., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE MRS MIRIAM LAU KIN-YEE, J.P. THE HONOURABLE LAU WAH-SUM, O.B.E., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE JAMES DAVID McGREGOR, O.B.E., I.S.O., J.P. THE HONOURABLE MRS ELSIE TU, C.B.E.
THE HONOURABLE ALBERT CHAN WAI-YIP
THE HONOURABLE VINCENT CHENG HOI-CHUEN
THE HONOURABLE MOSES CHENG MO-CHI
THE HONOURABLE MARVIN CHEUNG KIN-TUNG, J.P. THE HONOURABLE CHEUNG MAN-KWONG
THE HONOURABLE CHIM PUI-CHUNG
REV THE HONOURABLE FUNG CHI-WOOD
THE HONOURABLE FREDERICK FUNG KIN-KEE
THE HONOURABLE TIMOTHY HA WING-HO, M.B.E., J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE HUANG CHEN-YA
THE HONOURABLE SIMON IP SIK-ON, J.P.
DR THE HONOURABLE LAM KUI-CHUN
DR THE HONOURABLE CONRAD LAM KUI-SHING
THE HONOURABLE LAU CHIN-SHEK
THE HONOURABLE LEE WING-TAT
THE HONOURABLE GILBERT LEUNG KAM-HO
THE HONOURABLE ERIC LI KA-CHEUNG, J.P.
THE HONOURABLE FRED LI WAH-MING
PROF THE HONOURABLE FELICE LIEH MAK, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURALBE MAN SAI-CHEONG
THE HONOURABLE STEVEN POON KWOK-LIM
THE HONOURABLE TIK CHI-YUEN
THE HONOURABLE JAMES TO KUN-SUN
DR THE HONOURABLE SAMUEL WONG PING-WAI, M.B.E., J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE PHILIP WONG YU-HONG
DR THE HONOURABLE YEUNG SUM
THE HONOURABLE HOWARD YOUNG
THE HONOURABLE ZACHARY WONG WAI-YIN
ABSENT
THE HONOURABLE STEPHEN CHEONG KAM-CHUEN, C.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE MRS SELINA CHOW LIANG SHUK-YEE, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE RONALD JOSEPH ARCULLI, J.P.
DR THE HONOURABLE LEONG CHE-HUNG
THE HONOURABLE PETER WONG HONG-YUEN, J.P.
PROF THE HONOURABLE EDWARD CHEN KWAN-YIU
THE HONOURABLE MICHAEL HO MUN-KA
THE HONOURABLE MISS EMILY LAU WAI-HING
THE HONOURABLE NG MING-YUM
THE HONOURABLE HENRY TANG YING-YEN, J.P.
IN ATTENDANCE
MR DAVID ALAN CHALLONER NENDICK, C.B.E., J.P. SECRETARY FOR MONETARY AFFAIRS
MRS ANSON CHAN, C.B.E., J.P.
SECRETARY FOR ECONOMIC SERVICES
MR JOHN CHAN CHO-CHAK, L.V.O., O.B.E., J.P.
SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION AND MANPOWER
MR ALISTAIR PETER ASPREY, O.B.E., A.E., J.P. SECRETARY FOR SECURITY
MR RONALD JAMES BLAKE
SECRETARY FOR WORKS
MR ANTHONY GORDON EASON, J.P.
SECRETARY FOR PLANNING, ENVIRONMENT AND LANDS
DR LEE SHIU-HUNG, I.S.O., J.P.
SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE
MISS DENISE YUE CHUNG-YEE, J.P.
SECRETARY FOR TRADE AND INDUSTRY
MR KWONG KI-CHI
SECRETARY FOR THE TREASURY
CLERK TO THE LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL
MR PATRICK CHAN NIM-TAK
Papers
The following papers were laid on the table pursuant to Standing Order 14(2): Subject
Subsidiary Legislation L.N. No. Subsidiary Legislation L.N. No.
Dutiable Commodities (Amendment)
Regulation
1992.......................................................... 123/92 1992.......................................................... 123/92
Dentists (Registration and Disciplinary
Procedure) (Amendment) Regulations 1992................... 124/92 Procedure) (Amendment) Regulations 1992................... 124/92
Enrolled Nurses (Enrolment and Disciplinary Enrolled Nurses (Enrolment and Disciplinary
Procedure) (Amendment) Regulation 1992..................... 125/92 Procedure) (Amendment) Regulation 1992..................... 125/92
Medical Practitioners (Registration and
Disciplinary Procedure) (Amendment)
Regulation
1992.......................................................... 126/92 1992.......................................................... 126/92
Midwives (Registration and Disciplinary
Procedure) (Amendment) Regulation 1992..................... 127/92 Procedure) (Amendment) Regulation 1992..................... 127/92
Nurses (Registration and Disciplinary
Procedure) (Amendment) Regulation 1992..................... 128/92 Procedure) (Amendment) Regulation 1992..................... 128/92
Merchant Shipping (Safety) (Cargo Ship Merchant Shipping (Safety) (Cargo Ship
Construction and Survey) (Ships Built on or
after 1 September 1984) (Amendment)
Regulation
1992.......................................................... 129/92 1992.......................................................... 129/92
Merchant Shipping (Safety) (Cargo Ship Safety
Equipment Survey) (Amendment) Equipment Survey) (Amendment)
Regulation
1992.......................................................... 130/92 1992.......................................................... 130/92
Merchant Shipping (Safety) (GMDSS Radio
Installations) Regulation............................................... 131/92
Merchant Shipping (Safety) (Life-Saving Merchant Shipping (Safety) (Life-Saving
Appliances) (Ships Built before 1 July 1986)
(Amendment) Regulation 1992...................................... 132/92
Merchant Shipping (Safety) (Life-Saving
Appliances) (Ships Built on or after 1 July
1986) (Amendment) Regulation 1992............................ 1986) (Amendment) Regulation 1992............................ 1992............................ 133/92
Merchant Shipping (Safety) (Passenger Ship
Construction and Survey) (Ships Built on or
after 1 September 1984) (Amendment)
Regulation
1992.......................................................... 134/92 1992.......................................................... 134/92 Merchant Shipping (Safety) (Radio Installations
Survey) (Amendment) Regulation 1992......................... 135/92 Survey) (Amendment) Regulation 1992......................... 135/92
Immigration (Places of Detention) (Amendment)
(No. 2) Order 1992...................................................... 137/92
Immigration (Treatment of Detainees) (Amendment) Immigration (Treatment of Detainees) (Amendment)
(No. 2) Order 1992..................................................... 138/92
Immigration (Vietnamese Boat People) (Detention
Centres) (Designation) (Amendment)
Order
1992................................................................. 139/92 1992................................................................. 139/92
Immigration (Vietnamese Boat People) (Detention
Centres) (Designation) (Amendment) (No. 2)
Order
1992................................................................. 140/92 1992................................................................. 140/92
Immigration (Vietnamese Boat People) (Detention Immigration (Vietnamese Boat People) (Detention
Centres) (Amendment) Rule 1992................................. 141/92 Centres) (Amendment) Rule 1992................................. 141/92
Immigration (Vietnamese Boat People) (Detention
Centres) (Amendment) (No. 2) Rule 1992...................... 142/92 Centres) (Amendment) (No. 2) Rule 1992...................... 142/92
Immigration (Vietnamese Refugee Centres) Immigration (Vietnamese Refugee Centres)
(Designation) (No. 2) Order 1992................................. 143/92
Immigration (Vietnamese Refugee Centres)
(Departure Centre) (Amendment) (No. 2)
Rule
1992................................................................... 144/92 1992................................................................... 144/92
Revised Edition of the Laws (Correction of Revised Edition of the Laws (Correction of
Errors) (No. 2) Order 1992......................................... 145/92
Chinese Permanent Cemeteries (Amendment)
Rules
1992.................................................................. 146/92 1992.................................................................. 146/92
Public Revenue Protection (Rating) (Withdrawal) Public Revenue Protection (Rating) (Withdrawal)
Order
1992................................................................. 147/92 1992................................................................. 147/92
Sessional Papers 1991-92
No. 74 -- No. 74 -- Report of Changes to the Approved Estimates of Report of Changes to the Approved Estimates of
Expenditure approved during the
Third Quarter of 1991-92
Public Finance Ordinance : Section 8
No. 75 -- No. 75 -- The Government Minute in response to the Report of the The Government Minute in response to the Report of the Public Accounts Committee dated January 1992
Addresses
Report of Changes to the Approved Estimates of Expenditure approved during the Third Quarter of 1991-92
SECRETARY FOR THE TREASURY: Mr Deputy President, in accordance with section 8(8)(b) of the Public Finance Ordinance, I now table for Members' information a summary of all changes made to the approved estimates of expenditure for the third quarter of the financial year 1991-92.
Supplementary provision of $4,088.1 million was approved of which $2,741.8 million were for the Hospital Authority to facilitate its taking over of the management responsibility of public hospitals with effect from 1 December 1991. The supplementary provision was fully offset, whether by savings under the same or other
heads of expenditure, or by the deletion of funds under the Additional Commitments subheads.
During the period, non-recurrent commitments were increased by $11.6 million, During the period, non-recurrent commitments were increased by $11.6 million, new non-recurrent commitments of $190.3 million were approved, and approved non recurrent commitments of $25.7 million were revoted.
In the same period, a net decrease of 4 543 posts was approved. This was mainly In the same period, a net decrease of 4 543 posts was approved. This was mainly attributable to the deletion of posts as a result of civil servants having opted for the Hospital Authority terms of service.
Items in the summary have been approved either by Finance Committee or under delegated authority. The latter have been reported to the Finance Committee in accordance with section 8(8)(a) of the Public Finance Ordinance.
The Government Minute in response to the Report of the Public Accounts Committee dated January 1992
CHIEF SECRETARY: Mr Deputy President, the Government Minute in response to the 17th Report of the Public Accounts Committee on the accounts for the year 1990-91 is laid on the table today. The Minute reports the action taken, or about to be taken, by the Government upon the conclusion and recommendations contained in the report.
The Chairman of the Public Accounts Committee, Mr Stephen CHEONG, spoke in this Council on 19 February 1992 and raised some areas of concern. I would like to comment on the points raised.
On the subject of road damage and accidents caused by overloaded goods vehicles, On the subject of road damage and accidents caused by overloaded goods vehicles, measures to tackle overloading of goods vehicles are being further examined and will be put to the Transport Advisory Committee for advice. These measures aim at making owners of goods vehicles strictly liable for overloading such vehicles. The
Government is also studying the experience from overseas countries where similar arrangements have been introduced. Depending on the advice of the Transport Advisory Committee, legislative amendments will be pursued.
I thank the Chairman for his commendation in respect of the new review cycles I thank the Chairman for his commendation in respect of the new review cycles for the Public Assistance Scheme which have realized considerable savings on staff
resources. The Government will certainly continue to make efforts to identify savings in other areas without affecting its provision of essential services to the public.
In his address the Chairman referred to the computerization of urban land registration records in the Registrar General's Department. The Registrar General's Department, in conjunction with the Information Technology Services Department, will draw on the experience gained in the computerization of the urban land registration records project for the planning and implementation of future computerization projects, including the proposed computerization of the New Territories land records and the direct computer search facilities at solicitors' offices. Particular attention will be paid to the forecast of the workload. Estimates of future workload will be based on the results of the analysis of the actual workload in the past years, taking into consideration any other relevant factors. In addition, work manuals based on the experience gained in the urban computerization project will be compiled for the staff working on the new projects to follow.
With respect to the planning and design of computerization projects in various government departments, the Information Technology Services Department will continue to work closely with the user departments. Careful estimates of demand for the services and workload will be made and realistic objectives, operational performance targets and measures for the projects will be set. Proven and state-of-the-art system development methodologies currently adopted by the Information Technology Services Department will, among other things, ensure thorough analysis of the relevant business areas of the projects and facilitate more detailed workload forecast and performance standards specification by the user departments.
The resource branches of the Government Secretariat will take full account of The resource branches of the Government Secretariat will take full account of the operational and technical advice given by the user departments and the Information Technology Services Department in assessing the financial implications of future computerization projects and forecast of workload, and will, where practicable, make every effort to ensure that adequate staff will be provided and retained for the smooth implementation of the projects.
On the subject of employing consultants, it is stipulated in government regulations and instructions that consultancy services can only be procured in certain cases. For example, where the service cannot be undertaken by government departments because the personnel qualified to undertake the work may not be available
in the Civil Service and the length of the assignment may not justify the Government recruiting or training the required staff. The Chairman's advice has nevertheless been brought to the attention of the officers responsible for the approval of expenditure and appointment of consultants.
Mr Deputy President, I would like to conclude by saying that the Controlling Officers are aware of their responsibilities, that all public funds have been spent with the authority of the Finance Committee and that I do not believe that any public funds have been wasted.
Oral answers to questions
DEPUTY PRESIDENT: In the absence of Mr Jimmy McGREGOR, we will take your question, Dr Samuel WONG.
Secondment of government staff to Provisional Airport Authority 1. DR SAMUEL WONG asked: Will the Gov 1. DR SAMUEL WONG asked: Will the Gov DR SAMUEL WONG asked: Will the Government inform this Council: ernment inform this Council:
(a) how many officers have been seconded from the Civil Service to the Provis (a) how many officers have been seconded from the Civil Service to the Provisional Airport Authority, what their ranks and their periods of secondment are; and
(b) how many of these officers have returned to the Civil Servi (b) how many of these officers have returned to the Civil Servi how many of these officers have returned to the Civil Service?
SECRETARY FOR ECONOMIC SERVICES: Mr Deputy President, a total of 42 government officers have been deployed to the Provisional Airport Authority (PAA) in 37 posts since its establishment in April 1990. Details of the ranks and periods of secondment of these officers have been tabled for Members' information. Of the 37 posts concerned five are in the directorate rank, 17 in professional and technical grades and 15 are for general grade and secretarial staff.
The present position is that, of the total of 42 officers deployed to the The present position is that, of the total of 42 officers deployed to the Provisional Airport Authority:
(a) 19 officers have already returned to posts in the Civil Service; (a) 19 officers have already returned to posts in the Civil Service;
(b) two officers will return to the Civil Service by the end of May and 12 ot (b) two officers will return to the Civil Service by the end of May and 12 others will be reverting soon;
(c) one offi (c) one offi one officer will remain with the Authority until May next year; and cer will remain with the Authority until May next year; and (d) eight officers have resigned from the Civil Service and joined the PAA. (d) eight officers have resigned from the Civil Service and joined the PAA.
Civil servants working for the
Provisional Airport Authority
Rank Post (No.) Rank Post (No.) Post (No.) No. of Officers No. of Officers No. of Officers Period
Civil Aviation Department
Deputy Director of
Civil Aviation 1 Civil Aviation 1 1 1.4.90-24.5.92 1.4.90-24.5.92
Chief Operations Officer 1 Chief Operations Officer 1 1 1.4.90-16.2.92 1.4.90-16.2.92
Senior Operations Officer 3 Senior Operations Officer 3 1 1.4.90-23.2.92 1.4.90-23.2.92
1 19.5.90-18.5.93 1 19.5.90-18.5.93
1 19.6.90-11.2.92 1 19.6.90-11.2.92
Operations Officer 3 Operations Officer 3 1 1.4.90-14.2.92 1.4.90-14.2.92
1 1.4.90-23.2.92 1 1.4.90-23.2.92
1 13.8.90-16.2.92 1 13.8.90-16.2.92
Senior Executive Officer 1 Senior Executive Officer 1 1 1.4.90-2.3.92 1.4.90-2.3.92
Personal Secretary I 1 Personal Secretary I 1 1 1.4.90-19.5.92 1.4.90-19.5.92
Personal Secretary II 2 Personal Secretary II 2 1 1.4.90-16.4.92 1.4.90-16.4.92
1 1.4.90-28.1.92 1 1.4.90-28.1.92
Typist 1 Typist 1 1 16.7.90-5.4.92 16.7.90-5.4.92
Clerical Officer I 1 Clerical Officer I 1 1 1.4.90-16.4.92 1.4.90-16.4.92
Clerical Officer II 1 Clerical Officer II 1 1 1.4.90-16.4.92 4.90-16.4.92
Clerical Assistant 2 Clerical Assistant 2 1 2.5.90-7.2.92 2.5.90-7.2.92
1 1.4.90-16.4.92 1 1.4.90-16.4.92
Civil Engineering Department
Government Engineer 1 Government Engineer 1 1 1.4.90-17.12.91 1.4.90-17.12.91
Chief Engineer 1 Chief Engineer 1 1 1.4.90-31.5.92 1.4.90-31.5.92
Senior Engineer 2 Senior Engineer 2 1 1.4.90-31.5.92 1.4.90-31.5.92
1 4.9.90-4.5.92 1 4.9.90-4.5.92
Senior Geotechnical Engineer 1 Senior Geotechnical Engineer 1 1 10.9.90-31.5.92 10.9.90-31.5.92 Rank Post (No.) Rank Post (No.) Post (No.) No. of Officers No. of Officers No. of Officers Period
Engineer 4 Engineer 4 1 3.12.90-31.5.92 3.12.90-31.5.92
1 1.4.90-31.5.92 1 1.4.90-31.5.92
1 1.8.90-17.2.92 1 1.8.90-17.2.92
1 18.4.91-31.5.92 1 18.4.91-31.5.92
Senior Technical Officer
(Civil) 1 (Civil) 1 1 6.8.90-31.5.92 6.8.90-31.5.92
Technical Officer (Civil) 1 Technical Officer (Civil) 1 1 1.4.90-2.3.92 1.4.90-2.3.92 Technical Officer
(Geotechnical) 1 (Geotechnical) 1 1 9.11.90-31.5.92 9.11.90-31.5.92
Personal Secretary I 1 Personal Secretary I 1 1 12.11.90-31.5.92 12.11.90-31.5.92 Personal Secretary II 1 Personal Secretary II 1 1 5.3.91-31.5.92 5.3.91-31.5.92 Clerical Officer II 1 Clerical Officer II 1 1 1.4.90-1.7.90 1.4.90-1.7.90
1 2.7.90-18.7.90 1 2.7.90-18.7.90
1 16.7.90-31.5.92 1 16.7.90-31.5.92
Office Assistant 1 Office Assistant 1 1 17.10.90-2.1.91 17.10.90-2.1.91 1 2.1.91-2.4.91 1 2.1.91-2.4.91
1 2.4.91-31.5.92 1 2.4.91-31.5.92
Others
Administrative Officer
Staff Grade C 1 Staff Grade C 1 1 1.4.90-4.91 1.4.90-4.91
1 5.7.91-15.10.91 1 5.7.91-15.10.91
Senior Crown Counsel 1 Senior Crown Counsel 1 1 1.4.90-6.91 1.4.90-6.91 Personal Secretary I 1 Personal Secretary I 1 1 28.2.91-11.5.91 28.2.91-11.5.91 Chauffeur 1 Chauffeur 1 1 27.2.91-25.4.91 27.2.91-25.4.91
-- --
37 42
== ==
DR SAMUEL WONG: Mr Deputy President, as less than 20% of the officers seconded to the Provisional Airport Authority (PAA) have opted or have been asked to stay on, does this mean that they have not been offered comparable terms of service by the PAA, so that they have to return to posts in the Civil Service?
SECRETARY FOR ECONOMIC SERVICES: Mr Deputy President, the conditions of employment and the offers made to civil servants by the PAA are of course based on the PAA's own set of remuneration and conditions of appointment. As far as I know, all staff in the Civil Aviation Department have been made offers and it is, I think, in the final analysis, up to the individual officers to decide whether they wish to transfer across to the PAA or to remain with the Civil Service.
MR CHEUNG MAN-KWONG (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, will the Administration inform this Council whether it was for reason of the system or for personnel reason that the majority of officers seconded to the PAA have to return to posts in the Civil Service? Will this situation be improved so that the PAA can operate smoothly in the future?
SECRETARY FOR ECONOMIC SERVICES: Mr Deputy President, I would not wish it to be taken that the secondment of staff is in any way hampering the efficient operation of the PAA. In general, secondment of staff is intended, in the initial phases, to allow the PAA to build up its own staff. As to staff who wish to transfer across to the PAA, they of course have this choice to do so. As the PAA builds up its own staff -- and in fact is rapidly doing so -- the position of civil servants will in the final analysis be for the individual officers to decide.
MR CHAN WAI-YIP (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, will the Administration inform this Council how many of the 19 officers who returned to posts in the Civil Service did so at their own request or as a result of dissatisfaction with the working environment of the PAA, and also of the change in remuneration and rank of the eight officers who have resigned from the Civil Service and joined the PAA?
SECRETARY FOR ECONOMIC SERVICES: Mr Deputy President, I do not have the information readily available, I will supply a written reply. (Annex I)
Wild animals on exhibition
2. MR JIMMY McGREGOR asked: Will the 2. MR JIMMY McGREGOR asked: Will the MR JIMMY McGREGOR asked: Will the Government inform this Council: Government inform this Council:
(a) what standards of care are required for wild animals on exhibition in Hong (a) what standards of care are required for wild animals on exhibition in Hong Kong;
(b) how these standards compare with those of Britain or other major urban ci (b) how these standards compare with those of Britain or other major urban cities; and
(c) whether there are plans to review the Publ (c) whether there are plans to review the Publ whether there are plans to review the Public Health (Animals and Birds) ic Health (Animals and Birds) (Exhibitions) Regulations which were made in 1973?
SECRETARY FOR ECONOMIC SERVICES: Mr Deputy President, the standards of care required for wild animals on public exhibition in Hong Kong are set out in the Public Health (Animals and Birds) (Exhibitions) Regulations and the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals Ordinance.
The statutory standards require that animals in a permanent exhibition should be provided with enclosures designed and constructed so that they can live comfortably, move around freely and receive adequate lighting and ventilation. They also require the adequate provision of food and water, adequate sanitation and a suitable programme of veterinary care. The cruel treatment of any animal is prohibited.
No one may hold a permanent exhibition of animals without a licence issued by No one may hold a permanent exhibition of animals without a licence issued by the Director of Agriculture and Fisheries. In practice, the Director issues a code of standards with every licence setting out, in addition to the statutory requirements, measures and precautions the exhibitor must observe in the interests of the welfare of his animals and the safety of the public.
In general, the standards of care specified in Hong Kong are not as comprehensive as those in Britain, which has one of the highest overall standards of animal welfare in the world and indeed is pressing for a general improvement in standards within the European Community. However, in the opinion of the Director of Agriculture and Fisheries, the standards of care in Hong Kong compare favourably with those in other
cities in the region.
Having considered the advice of the Director, I believe that the existing standards of husbandry and veterinary care are generally satisfactory for wild animals on permanent exhibition in Hong Kong. Where the position appears to be less than satisfactory is in respect of the requirements for a suitable living environment, particularly in terms of space and opportunities for the animals to follow their normal behaviour patterns.
Mr Deputy President, there is a growing expectation among the general public that Mr Deputy President, there is a growing expectation among the general public that animals on permanent exhibition should be accommodated in conditions resembling their natural habitat where they may display as much as possible of their natural behaviour. Such conditions considerably enhance the educational value of the exhibit.
I take Mr McGREGOR's point that the Public Health (Animals and Birds) (Exhibitions) Regulations were made nearly 20 years ago and perhaps do not reflect the public expectation I have described. The Director of Agriculture and Fisheries is contacting reputable exhibitors of wild animals and law enforcement bodies in Britain and elsewhere to obtain more information about the standards of care they provide and how these are reflected in legislation. I intend to review our regulations in the light of the information collected and bring forward such amendments to them as may be necessary.
MR JIMMY McGREGOR: Mr Deputy President, I thank the Secretary for that constructive response. Will the Government undertake to examine the feasibility of constructing and operating a zoological garden in one of our country parks, seeking private funding to meet part of the cost and providing the Hong Kong public with the opportunity of seeing wild animals in their natural habitat? Will the Government therefore set up a professionally capable committee to consider this proposal and to recruit
zoological and environmental experts?
SECRETARY FOR ECONOMIC SERVICES: Mr Deputy President, I can assure Mr McGREGOR that the points he has made will be considered in the context of the review I have referred to in my principal reply.
MR ALBERT CHAN (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, Mr McGREGOR has already asked most of what I intend to raise in my follow-up question. I would like to point out that in paragraph six of her main reply the Secretary mentioned that there was a growing expectation among the public; and in the fifth paragraph, she mentioned that the position in respect of a suitable living environment appeared to be less than satisfactory. Further, the Secretary undertook to consider Mr McGREGOR's proposal of constructing a zoological garden. But as far as I know the Administration has in the past turned down the Urban Council's request for funds. Could the Secretary inform this Council whether the Administration will reconsider the funding
arrangements so as to assist the Regional Council in examining the feasibility of constructing a zoological garden?
SECRETARY FOR ECONOMIC SERVICES: Mr Deputy President, I am not aware of the offer that Mr CHAN refers to but I can assure him that the point he has made will also be considered in the context of the review.
MR MAN SAI-CHEONG (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, in view of the fact that recent criticisms by environmentalists centre mainly on animal rights and that more and more people are concerned about the protection of animals against cruelty, could the Secretary inform this Council whether the existing legislation has sufficient safeguard to ensure that spectators' expectations of animal rights will be taken care of not only in long exhibitions but also in temporary ones like circus shows in Hong Kong?
SECRETARY FOR ECONOMIC SERVICES: Mr Deputy President, in so far as animals in the circus are concerned, the exhibitor is also required to take out a licence issued by the Director of Agriculture and Fisheries and there are in fact detailed requirements imposed upon the exhibitor to ensure that the animals in the circus are looked after properly whilst they are in Hong Kong.
Labelling of medicine dispensed to patients
3. PROF FELICE LIEH MAK asked: As it is good medical practice to label all medicine 3. PROF FELICE LIEH MAK asked: As it is good medical practice to label all medicine given to patients, and also patients have the right to know the product they are receiving, will the Government inform this Council:
(a) what the Hospital Authority's policy concerning the labelling of medicine (a) what the Hospital Authority's policy concerning the labelling of medicine dispensed to patients is; and
(b) whether there are plans to implement a mandatory system of labelling medi (b) whether there are plans to implement a mandatory system of labelling medicine dispensed by doctors in private practice, if so, what the progress is?
SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE: Mr Deputy President, the Hospital Authority is in full support of the good medical practice to label all dispensed medicine. Labelling is now done through the Authority's computerized Pharmaceutical Supplies System or by other means.
Labelling of drugs is at present practised by five ex-government hospitals, 11 ex-subvented hospitals and one specialist clinic. Every effort is made to introduce labelling in other hospitals and specialist clinics.
Meanwhile, the Hospital Authority has plans to extend the Pharmaceutical Supplies System on a progressive basis. By 1994, the system will be installed in four other hospitals and nine specialist clinics.
As regards the labelling of medicine dispensed by doctors in private practice, As regards the labelling of medicine dispensed by doctors in private practice, I had in this Council some two years ago said that taking into account the advice given by the Pharmacy and Poisons Board, public education and professional co operation would be the most practical approach. To this end, we have monitored the situation and are pleased that labelling of drugs is being increasingly practised by hospitals, doctors and pharmacists in the private sector. Professional associations have also taken steps to urge their members to adopt the practice in the interest of better patient care. Against this background, there is no plan to introduce statutory control.
PROF FELICE LIEH MAK: Mr Deputy President, I beg to disagree with the reply given by the Secretary for Health and Welfare, especially on the second point. On many
occasions hospitals have admitted patients with overdosage of medicine dispensed by private practitioners, the contents of which the hospital doctors know nothing about nor are the medicines labelled. Would the Secretary for Health and Welfare tell this Council on what basis he has come to the conclusion that the labelling process is progressing satisfactorily?
SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE: Mr Deputy President, as I have said in my reply, private practitioners have responded positively to our publicity efforts and are adopting increasingly the practice of drug labelling. Although there are no available statistics to quantify the extent to which drug labelling has been adopted by private practitioners, of the 11 private hospitals in Hong Kong, six have introduced labelling of dispensed medicine as a matter of routine, four will provide such service on requests from patients, and the remaining one will do so on instructions from the prescribing doctor. Medical and pharmaceutical associations have also provided us with valuable assistance in disseminating the relevant information and guidelines through their newsletters.
DR LAM KUI-CHUN: Mr Deputy President, in the same spirit as labelling dispensed drugs, does the Government or Hospital Authority agree in principle to returning laboratory test reports and x-ray films for patients' safe keeping, as practised by many doctors in the private sector?
DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Dr LAM, that question has nothing to do with the main question or answer. I will have to rule it out of order. Do you wish to ask another supplementary?
DR LAM KUI-CHUN: No, Mr Deputy President.
MR MOSES CHENG: Mr Deputy President, will the Administration advise this Council whether doctors in private practice are obliged to disclose the name of the drugs prescribed by them when demanded to do so by their patients?
SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE: Mr Deputy President, as a matter of consumer rights, the patients are at liberty to ask the doctor about the name of the drugs but there are some circumstances in which, because of medical considerations and in the interests of the patient, it may be inadvisable for the attending doctor to disclose the name of the drug. So this is a matter of clinical judgment and is also in the interests of the patient, which is the deciding factor.
MR JIMMY McGREGOR: Mr Deputy President, what are these circumstances?
SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE: Mr Deputy President, the circumstances include, for example, the case of treatment of a patient suffering from cancer where it will be up to the attending doctor to decide whether or not it would be in the interests of the patient to disclose the name of the drug. Another example would be that when a placebo is given, it may not be necessary for the doctor to disclose the placebo that has been given to the patient. So this is really a matter to be considered by the attending doctor in the interests of the patient.
MRS RITA FAN: Mr Deputy President, following on from that answer, does it mean that if a patient asks a doctor for the prescription, that is, the medicine he has been given and the doctor refuses, then the patient might begin to think that he might have cancer or some other serious disease?
DEPUTY PRESIDENT: That is a matter of opinion. Secretary for Health and Welfare, do you want to add your opinion?
SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE: Mr Deputy President, as I have said in my original reply, the interests of the patient are the first consideration. The medical profession certainly takes into account the interests of the patient and the best way in which to advise the patient whenever it involves consideration of the appropriateness of disclosure of the information.
PROF FELICE LIEH MAK: Mr Deputy President, I am really appalled by the answer and
this looks like a very paternalistic way of practising medicine. Would the Secretary for Health and Welfare give a definite reply as to why it has taken so long to come to a system in which all drugs will be labelled in all hospitals, not only some hospitals?
SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE: Mr Deputy President, it is the intention of the Hospital Authority to extend the practice of drug labelling to all public hospitals either through the computerized pharmaceutical supply system or by other means. It is really a matter of resources. Although at the present moment no definite time schedule has been drawn up, every effort is made to achieve this goal. An assessment is being made by the Hospital Authority on the resource implications of installing the pharmaceutical supply system in all medical institutions managed by the Hospital Authority. And I have also mentioned that by 1994 there will be four more hospitals and nine specialist clinics introducing the computerized supply system, making a total of 20 ex-government and ex-subvented hospitals and nine specialist clinics which will be introducing this system.
Costs of jailing illegal immigrants
4. MR MARTIN BARROW asked: Given that as at 16 April 1992, over 30% of th 4. MR MARTIN BARROW asked: Given that as at 16 April 1992, over 30% of th MR MARTIN BARROW asked: Given that as at 16 April 1992, over 30% of the places e places in Hong Kong prisons were taken up by illegal immigrants, will the Government inform this Council:
(a) what the costs involved in keeping this imprisoned illegal immigrant (a) what the costs involved in keeping this imprisoned illegal immigrant population are; and
(b) what the Government's policy towards this proble (b) what the Government's policy towards this proble what the Government's policy towards this problem is, particularly as regards reducing the heavy financial burden upon Hong Kong?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr Deputy President, the average daily cost of maintaining a prisoner is $416 at current prices. There are some 3 400 illegal immigrants in prison. Total maintenance costs are therefore about $500 million a year.
Our policy objective is to deter illegal immigration. The legislation enacted in November 1990 sought to further this objective by denying illegal immigrants the opportunity to obtain work in Hong Kong; as did a revised prosecutions policy
introduced at the same time, whereby all illegal immigrants found at places of employment were to be prosecuted.
We have to balance the need to reduce overcrowding in the prisons and the need to deter people from coming here illegally. The new legislation and prosecutions policy have succeeded in reducing the illegal immigrant population in prison from a high of about 40% of the total prison population in September 1990 to about 30% at present, a reduction of over 1 200 persons.
MR MARTIN BARROW: Mr Deputy President, would the Secretary not agree that $500 million is a huge sum, which presumably does not include the cost of manpower who could be better deployed relieving the police in boat people camps, and might the Secretary not consider immediate repatriation as an alternative for those whose only crime has been that they are illegal immigrants?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr Deputy President, I agree that keeping people in prison is a very expensive business. But as I have said, we also need to have a deterrent against people coming here to work, and indeed against employers employing illegal immigrants, and we have to balance these things. In the final analysis, the question of who should be prosecuted is not a matter for me; it is a matter for the Attorney General.
MRS ELSIE TU: Mr Deputy President, since it takes $500 million a year to take care of these prisoners, could the $500 million not be used to beef up defences and, say, engage Gurkhas to make sure the border is safe?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr Deputy President, I believe that we already devote very considerable resources to try to apprehend illegal immigrants. I do not think that there is any need for any greater devotion of resources to that. I am not happy with the number of illegal immigrants nor the amount of money being spent upon them but, as I have said, we do need to have a deterrent.
MR FRED LI (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, how many of the 3 400 illegal
immigrants now serving sentences here were prosecuted because of work offences? How many of them were repeat offenders for working illegally here?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr Deputy President, that information, I regret to say, is not readily available. Certainly the majority of the illegal immigrants in prison are there for immigration or work offences. But some of them -- by no means all of them -- are there for other criminal offences. I regret that we do not have readily available figures on the percentages, nor on the proportion who are repeat offenders.
MR PANG CHUN-HOI (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, the average daily cost of maintaining a prisoner is $416. Could the Secretary inform this Council how this figure was arrived at?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr Deputy President, I will have to give a written answer to that question. The figure was supplied to me; I did not calculate it myself. (Annex II)
REV FUNG CHI-WOOD (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, could the Secretary inform this Council of the average term of imprisonment for an illegal immigrant? Will the Administration arrange to have them repatriated to their places of origin as soon as possible?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr Deputy President, sentencing is of course a matter for the courts and although most are imprisoned for the offence of entering and remaining illegally in Hong Kong, there are others who are imprisoned for more serious criminal offences. But dealing purely with the offence of remaining illegally in Hong Kong, I believe that the normal sentence is 15 months.
MR MARTIN LEE: Mr Deputy President, does the Administration appreciate that pursuing this persistent policy of prosecuting and imprisoning people from China who seek employment in the work sites may indeed drive them from seeking such employment into doing some other work which is speedier and which is more difficult to detect, namely,
robbery of jewellery shops?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr Deputy President, I do not believe that is the case. The very overwhelming majority of illegal immigrants who come to Hong Kong, we believe, are coming here for the prospect of work. There is no evidence that inability to obtain work is driving them to other forms of crime.
DR YEUNG SUM (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, I believe that many of those sent to prison are illegal workers. Illegal immigrants are repatriated once arrested but illegal workers have to serve prison terms. If the Administration believes that imprisonment will help reduce the number of illegal workers, will it consider imposing heavier penalties on employers for hiring illegal immigrants? Will this be more effective in reducing overcrowding in prison?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr Deputy President, I cannot comment on the level of penalties; that is a matter for the courts. But I would say that we do also prosecute employers and the policy we have is not one-sided. We do aim both to prosecute those illegal immigrants who are working here and also the employers.
DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Mr Fred LI, I think you want to follow up your earlier question?
MR FRED LI (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, could the Secretary provide a written reply as to the figures I requested?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr Deputy President, I will do my best to see what information we can provide on this. But as I have said, the information is not readily available and I am not sure whether it can be obtained in the form that Mr LI has asked for.
Market concentration
5. MR FRED LI asked (in Cantonese): In view of the increas 5. MR FRED LI asked (in Cantonese): In view of the increas MR FRED LI asked (in Cantonese): In view of the increasing degree of market ing degree of market concentration in certain sectors of our economy (e.g. supply of petroleum, container
terminals, the banking industry, supermarkets, and so on) with the tendency of certain sectors being controlled by a few corporations, which may affect the interests of consumers, will the Government inform this Council:
(a) whether it is aware of the problem; (a) whether it is aware of the problem;
(b) what measures are being taken or contemplated by Government to alleviate the (b) what measures are being taken or contemplated by Government to alleviate the problem; and
(c) under what circumstances the Government wi (c) under what circumstances the Government wi under what circumstances the Government will consider introducing ll consider introducing legislative control to deal with the situation?
SECRETARY FOR TRADE AND INDUSTRY: Mr Deputy President, in answer to questions (a) and (b), let me state from the outset that market concentration in itself does not necessarily give rise to adverse effects to consumers. Where it does and where consumers are unable to protect themselves, the Government has provided various forms of regulatory framework that are best suited to the requirements of the particular sector.
For example, there are sectors in the economy which have to be operated at a For example, there are sectors in the economy which have to be operated at a sufficiently large scale to attain optimum use of resources and achieve economies of scale. There are also others where it is in the wider interest of the community to provide for competition in a controlled fashion in order to ensure that consumers receive an efficient and reliable service at a reasonable price. In respect of these sectors, the interests of consumers are given due regard in the regulatory frameworks put in place by the Government which, amongst other things, limit the maximum
permissible rate of return on capital employed and specify the minimum standards of services to be provided.
Any artificial injection of competition into these sectors through government intervention would not automatically lead to cheaper products or better quality services or the more efficient use of resources. Furthermore, such action might run the risk of the Government having to protect the new entrants until they become established, if ever. Such protection can only be provided at taxpayers' expense.
Sectors that require to operate in a restricted competitive environment are the exception rather than the norm. The vast majority of goods and services suppliers in Hong Kong operate in a competitive market without any government intervention;
and market mechanism and consumer choice are the most important factors for guaranteeing a free market. In this connection, consumer education efforts have an important role to play. In Hong Kong, the Consumer Council is charged with the responsibility of protecting and promoting the interests of consumers. Towards this end, the Consumer Council has conducted and will continue to conduct regular price surveys as well as monitoring any monopolistic tendency in trade practices.
In respect of question (c), I believe it would be difficult to generalize the sort of circumstances under which the Government may need to consider introducing legislative control. Each case is best dealt with on its own merits.
MR FRED LI (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, what criteria does the Administration adopt in determining which sectors in the economy, and I quote from the Secretary's reply, "have to be operated at a sufficiently large scale" and which others have to be subject to, and I quote again, "competition in a controlled fashion"? According to the Administration's categorization, which sectors do the four trades that I
mentioned in my question, namely supply of petroleum, container terminals, the banking industry and supermarket, fall into?
SECRETARY FOR TRADE AND INDUSTRY: Mr Deputy President, as a general rule, the Government considers factors like the nature and quality of the goods or services involved, the number of suppliers in the market, the ease or otherwise of new entrants to the market, the availability of choices to consumers, the collective bargaining power of consumers and the consumers' dependability on any single supplier in assessing whether certain trade practices are restrictive and harmful to the consumers if they are not controlled or regulated by the Government. The four examples quoted in the question relate to the supply of petroleum, the provision of container terminals, the banking industry and the provision of supermarkets. The Government believes that all these four sectors operate in a competitive environment in Hong Kong. There are no artificial or deliberately imposed barriers to new entrants. They do not fall into our definition of industries or sectors that require government regulation.
MR TIK CHI-YUEN (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, in free economies like the United Kingdom and the United States, anti-monopoly committees have been established which
would take actions to curb the trend should market concentration reach a certain level. Has the Administration considered setting up a similar committee?
SECRETARY FOR TRADE AND INDUSTRY: Mr Deputy President, at this stage the Government has no intention to set up any anti-trust mechanisms. As I said in my principal reply, most trade and commercial activities in Hong Kong operate in a highly competitive environment. Any government intervention may distort market forces and introduce market imperfections. It is only in areas where the provision of essential services is involved and where consumers are not expected to be able to protect themselves that the Government should step in; and in respect of these areas the Government has already in place various kinds of schemes of control agreements. In addition, as I said in my principal reply, the Consumer Council also plays a very important role in helping to promote and protect the interests of consumers.
MR WONG WAI-YIN (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, the Secretary mentioned in his reply that the relevant sectors were operating in a highly competitive environment. Take petroleum as an example; there are often complaints that the oil companies are quick in lifting prices but slow in cutting them. Whenever there was an oil crisis, all the oil companies would instantly lift their prices, but no reduction was made even long after the crisis was over. What measures does the Administration have to prevent the oil companies from adopting the practice of "quick increase and slow decrease" in oil prices?
SECRETARY FOR TRADE AND INDUSTRY: Mr Deputy President, the Consumer Council monitors the situation of pump prices in Hong Kong very closely. The work it has been doing in this regard involves comparing the trends in the Singapore posted price, the import price statistics which various government departments provide and the local list price for a number of major oil products. As far as I know, the Consumer Council also holds regular discussions with the major oil companies in Hong Kong to ensure that fluctuations in the international prices for oil are reflected in a timely manner in our retail market in Hong Kong.
MR MARTIN LEE: Mr Deputy President, has the Administration conducted any survey or study as to whether monopolistic tendencies exist in the market place; if not, why
not?
SECRETARY FOR TRADE AND INDUSTRY: Mr Deputy President, as far as I know, there has been no such survey conducted by the Government so far in respect of whether monopolistic tendency exists in Hong Kong or not. There are certain natural sectors in which new entrants to the market would find it difficult because of inherent difficulties, for example, economies of scale and efficient use of resources. So, in that sense, there are monopolistic type of sectors in Hong Kong but all these are under one form of statutory control or another.
MR MAN SAI-CHEONG: Mr Deputy President, in the United States there are anti-trust laws to combat monopolistic tendencies. In the United Kingdom the Director General of Fair Trading is to oversee consumer protection legislation. Will the Government inform this Council whether there are similar or relevant government officials or mandatory mechanisms to safeguard fair dealing and fair competition in addition to the Consumer Council?
SECRETARY FOR TRADE AND INDUSTRY: Mr Deputy President, in respect of those sectors which are under schemes of control negotiated between the Government and the companies concerned and in respect of those operations under franchises, there are statutory and sometimes non-statutory mechanisms under which the monopolistic trade practices are regulated and under the firm control of the Government.
MR LEE WING-TAT (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, a number of companies now take up over half of the market share of the commodity market. For example, there are only three container terminal companies providing container-handling services, one of which has taken up over half of the market share. Will the Administration inform this Council what ways there are to enhance the competitiveness of this market such that monopolistic tendencies can be curbed and price rises avoided?
SECRETARY FOR TRADE AND INDUSTRY: Mr Deputy President, I believe this question falls
more appropriately within the economic services programme area. I defer to my colleague, the Secretary for Economic Services.
DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Are you able to answer, Secretary for Economic Services?
SECRETARY FOR ECONOMIC SERVICES: Yes, Mr Deputy President. I disagree that there is not a competitive environment in the provision of container terminal facilities.We have in Hong Kong three major container terminal operators. In addition, we have a very large number of mid-stream operators who handle some 25% of Hong Kong's
throughput. There is therefore a relatively wide choice of service, standards and price.
MR JIMMY McGREGOR: Mr Deputy President, given the nature of the answers from the Secretary and since the original question assumes that there is a problem that needs to be addressed, will the Secretary confirm that there is in fact, from the government position, no such problem existing, that is to say, the problem of a few corporations controlling and presumably exploiting a single market does not exist?
SECRETARY FOR TRADE AND INDUSTRY: Mr Deputy President, I can so confirm.
Effect of settlement on superstructures located on reclaimed land 6. MR GILBERT LEUNG asked (in Cantonese): Will the Government inform this Council: 6. MR GILBERT LEUNG asked (in Cantonese): Will the Government inform this Council:
(a) whether any administrative guidelines or rules on geotechnical (a) whether any administrative guidelines or rules on geotechnical considerations have been laid down for the erection of superstructures on reclaimed land so as to prevent the structures thereon from being affected due to the settlement of the fill; what specifications are detailed in these guidelines and rules, if any;
(b) what time schedule was specifi (b) what time schedule was specifi what time schedule was specified between the completion of reclamation works ed between the completion of reclamation works and the commencement of the construction of permanent superstructures in the major reclamation developments undertaken in the territory in the past;
(c) when the reclamation project for the airport island at (c) when the reclamation project for the airport island at when the reclamation project for the airport island at Chek Lap Kok is Chek Lap Kok is
expected to be completed; how soon after the completion of reclamation works that superstructures will be erected; and
(d) what precautionary measures will be taken by the Administration to assure (d) what precautionary measures will be taken by the Administration to assure that the airport will not be affected by the settlement of the fill?
SECRETARY FOR WORKS: Mr Deputy President,
(a) I will reply in parts to match the four-part question. Building (Construc (a) I will reply in parts to match the four-part question. Building (Construction) Regulations apply to superstructures whether they are on original ground or on new or old reclamations. Under these regulations it is necessary when designing structures to be located on reclaimed land, to forecast the settlement of the reclaimed area and to take this into account in the structural design. Specified design stresses must not be exceeded, taking into account any effects arising from settlement of the reclaimed area.
(b) In the past, and now, commencement of piled foundations for buildings fol (b) In the past, and now, commencement of piled foundations for buildings follows almost immediately after completion of reclamation works. Non-piled structures such as roads and drains are normally constructed on conventional reclamation about two years after completion to minimize settlement. This period can however be
substantially reduced by using special methods to accelerate reclamation settlements.
(c) The airpor (c) The airpor The airport island reclamation will be formed by removal of the soft marine t island reclamation will be formed by removal of the soft marine mud, and controlled backfilling with stable materials. The Airport Master Plan, by sequencing the reclamation, together with the careful location of the various structures, has developed a scheme which minimizes delays from settlement and enables the early construction of structures required for airport opening. It should be noted however that the main terminal building, the railway station, control tower and associated structures will be erected on Chek Lap Kok Island itself, not on the reclamation. Only the runways and other structures such as the maintenance area and air cargo handling area, will be within the reclaimed area.
Areas of reclamation will be monitored by measuring instruments and survey Areas of reclamation will be monitored by measuring instruments and survey techniques which will enable engineers to compare settlements with those predicted.
This will determine the earliest possible commencement of construction work within those areas.
(d) Settlements will be within the acceptable tolerances f (d) Settlements will be within the acceptable tolerances f Settlements will be within the acceptable tolerances for the types of or the types of structure, including the runways, to be built on the areas of the reclamation.
MR GILBERT LEUNG (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, will the Secretary inform this Council of the extent of settlement the Administration would expect within the reclaimed area after the airport core programme projects are completed?
SECRETARY FOR WORKS: I do not have design settlements, Mr Deputy President. This is quite a detailed question because the area is very extensive. I could perhaps undertake to supply a supplementary answer in writing. (Annex III)
DR SAMUEL WONG: Mr Deputy President, in respect of the airport island or platform reclamation could this Council be informed of the difference in costs on a cubic metre basis between the method as just mentioned by the Secretary for Works and the more conventional method of reclamation, and what the difference in time for proper
settlement will be between these two methods of reclamation?
DEPUTY PRESIDENT: The first part of the question, I think, is probably outside the ambit of the answer, but do you have the answer to hand, Secretary for Works?
SECRETARY FOR WORKS: Mr Deputy President, all of the methods which are taken into account and have been taken into account for the design not only of the reclamation for Chek Lap Kok but also of other reclamations within the airport core programme are conventional in the sense that they are all engineered methods. If there is further information required, this could be supplied in writing.
MR ALBERT CHAN (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, there have been changes as to the methodology and time schedule of the reclamation for Chek Lap Kok following the tendering exercise lately; does this mean that they are a result of errors in the
initial design or arrangements? And will the Administration account for it? DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Does that relate to reclamation Mr CHAN?
MR ALBERT CHAN (in Cantonese): Yes, it does.
SECRETARY FOR WORKS: Mr Deputy President, I think we are, with respect, straying outside the ambit of the original question. I will only say that the original design for the Chek Lap Kok island does stand up to scrutiny in the light of current events.
Written answers to questions
Payment of commission for the sale of Government's ex-quarters
7. MR HOWARD YOUNG asked: Will the Government inform this Council what is the re 7. MR HOWARD YOUNG asked: Will the Government inform this Council what is the reason for the arrangement to pay commission to estate agents in the Government's sale of its ex-quarters, given that vendors are not always charged commission in a sale of property, particularly in a sellers' market?
SECRETARY FOR THE TREASURY: Mr Deputy President, the practice on the part of estate agents in the charging of commission varies. In addition to charging the purchaser, some agents also require a commission from the vendor.
Sales agents were selected following a tender exercise in which the level of commission was considered alongside many other factors, including the scope of service to be provided, marketing strategy and the agent's expertise and reputation. Provision had to be made for the payment of commission because failure to provide for this could result in an unsatisfactory response. The requirement to pay a commission is only one of the many factors taken into account in assessing the tenders from these estate agents.
Resumption of land at Wing Lok Street
8. MR LAU CHIN-SHEK asked: With regard to the Government's acquisition of land at 8. MR LAU CHIN-SHEK asked: With regard to the Government's acquisition of land at
Wing Lok Street, Central District under the Crown Lands Resumption Ordinance for redevelopment by the Land Development Corporation, will the Government inform this Council of the following:
(a) the amount of funds set aside by the Government to compensate those affected (a) the amount of funds set aside by the Government to compensate those affected by this redevelopment scheme;
(b) whether the rehousing expenses for affected tenants have be (b) whether the rehousing expenses for affected tenants have be whether the rehousing expenses for affected tenants have been included in en included in the amount of compensation; and
(c) whether the Government will recover the compensation expenses from the Land (c) whether the Government will recover the compensation expenses from the Land Development Corporation?
SECRETARY FOR PLANNING, ENVIRONMENT AND LANDS: Mr Deputy President, the compensation and ex-gratia allowances for resumption and clearance in this case are estimated at $400 million. Funds are available from the Capital Works Reserve Fund Head 701 -- Land Acquisition.
The amount of compensation includes ex-gratia removal allowances for eligible affected tenants. Separately, the Land Development Corporation will make arrangements in relation to the rehousing of eligible domestic tenants.
All acquisition and clearance costs met by the Government, including ex gratia payments, will be reimbursed by the Corporation, which will also pay the Government a service charge.
Efficiency of the Civil Service
9. MR HOWARD YOUNG asked: Will the Government inform this Council: 9. MR HOWARD YOUNG asked: Will the Government inform this Council:
(a) whether comparison has been made between the ratio of the Hong Kong Civil (a) whether comparison has been made between the ratio of the Hong Kong Civil Service to its population vis-a-vis those of other administrations; and
(b) what other indicators are used by the Government to assess the efficiency (b) what other indicators are used by the Government to assess the efficiency of its Civil Service and how does Hong Kong compare with other administrations according to these indicators?
SECRETARY FOR THE CIVIL SERVICE: Mr Deputy President, based on published information the ratio of public employees to total population of some countries is as follows:
Japan 4.3% (l988) Japan 4.3% (l988)
France l3.7% (l988) France l3.7% (l988)
United Kingdom 9.4% (l987) United Kingdom 9.4% (l987)
United States United States 9.4% (l988) 9.4% (l988)
West Germany 9.l% (l987) West Germany 9.l% (l987)
Source: Handbook on Japan's Civil Service -- Statistical Overview l99l, National Source: Handbook on Japan's Civil Service -- Statistical Overview l99l, National Personnel Authority, Japan.
In Hong Kong the strength of the Civil Service, if staff who have left the service to join the Vocational Training Council and the Hospital Authority were included, would be l9l 936 at l January l992. The ratio of the Civil Service to population would then be 3.3%.
Other information available for purposes of comparison is the share of government expenditure in Gross Domestic Product. The figures for Hong Kong and some Asian countries are as follows:
l990
Thailand l3.4% Thailand l3.4%
Korea, Republic of l5.9% Korea, Republic of l5.9%
Hong Kong l6.4% Hong Kong l6.4%
Singapore 22.3% Singapore 22.3%
Malaysia 29.7% Malaysia 29.7%
Source: Asian Development Outlook l99l, Asian Development Bank
However, these figures do not necessarily enable a comparison to be made between the relative efficiency of the administrations. Administrations differ, among other things, in the scope of their activities and services, and constitutional systems. For example, in Japan, public employees include the self-defense force and employees of local governments. These personnel and services, and the various levels of local governments have no equivalents in Hong Kong. There is therefore no common basis for meaningful comparison.
We do of course compile statistical information on the Hong Kong Civil Service, as a means to monitor developments. For example, one indicator is the ratio between the cost of the Civil Service and total government recurrent expenditure. In the past l0 years the ratio has varied from 42% in l98l-82, to 46.8% in l990-9l, to 42.3% in l99l-92. We also rely on a variety of measures to assess and monitor the efficiency of the Civil Service. For example, the Director of Audit conducts value-for-money audits to ascertain that prudence and economy have been exercised in the management of public funds and that good value has been obtained from expenditure that has been incurred. The Director's report covering the results of such audits is submitted to this Council. The Council's role is also vital in the adoption and monitoring of the Government's budget, the creation of directorate posts in the Civil Service and as a watchdog generally on performance of the public sector.
While comparisons are difficult and could be invidious, it is fair to say that e comparisons are difficult and could be invidious, it is fair to say that the Hong Kong Civil Service is recognized internationally as efficient and dedicated, and as a factor contributing greatly to the efficiency and prosperity of Hong Kong. This reflects among other things the consistent efforts of this Council and the
Administration in controlling the growth and increasing the efficiency of the Civil Service.
Land for public rental housing in Kowloon
10. MR LEE WING-TAT asked: Having regard to the 10. MR LEE WING-TAT asked: Having regard to the MR LEE WING-TAT asked: Having regard to the amount of usable land that will b amount of usable land that will become available with the relocation of the airport and the reclamation in West Kowloon area, will the Government inform this Council whether it will allocate more land in Kowloon District than the 38 hectares earmarked under the Metroplan, for the development of public rental housing estates, and if not, what are the reasons?
SECRETARY FOR PLANNING, ENVIRONMENT AND LANDS: Mr Deputy President, Metroplan is a framework for more detailed planning and is not a detailed plan in itself. Amounts of land for various uses referred to in Metroplan should therefore be regarded as indicative and not precise at this stage.
Against this background, the amount of land designated for public rental housing development in Kowloon under Metroplan takes the future West Kowloon Reclamation and
the relocation of the Kai Tak Airport into account. However, the recently completed West Kowloon Reclamation Study has since shown that more land is likely to be available for public rental housing development in the area than was envisaged under the Metroplan studies. The exact amount will be established through further detailed planning studies.
Similarly, the exact amount of land available for public rental housing development on the existing Kai Tak Airport site when redeveloped will be assessed in the South-East Kowloon Development Statement Study which will start soon and be completed in mid-1993. The assessment will take account of Metroplan objectives.
General Teaching Council
11. MR NG MI 11. MR NG MI MR NG MING-YUM asked: Given that the Preparatory Committee on the Code for the NG-YUM asked: Given that the Preparatory Committee on the Code for the Education Profession of Hong Kong has recommended the setting up of a General Teaching Council to enforce the Code for the Education Profession of Hong Kong, will the Government inform this Council what progress has been made, since the completion of the Code in late 1990, for the establishment of such a Council?
SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION AND MANPOWER: Mr Deputy President, following completion in October 1990 of the Code for the Education Profession of Hong Kong, the Preparatory Committee held consultations with teachers on the Code itself and on the Committee's recommendation for setting up a General Teaching Council to enforce the Code. The Committee submitted a formal proposal for a General Teaching Council to the Education Commission in December 1991. The Commission is now considering the proposal and is expected to make known its views and recommendations in its Fifth Report to be released shortly.
School Management Initiative
12. MR NG MING-YUM asked: With regard to the "School Management Initiative", will 12. MR NG MING-YUM asked: With regard to the "School Management Initiative", will the Government inform this Council:
(a) how many schools have joined the scheme and how many more will join in the (a) how many schools have joined the scheme and how many more will join in the coming school year;
(b) in what ways the Government has e (b) in what ways the Government has e in what ways the Government has encouraged active participation of parents ncouraged active participation of parents and teachers in school management; what help the Government can offer to those teachers who find difficulties in playing an effective role in school management due to their workload and their position as employees of the school and to those parents who find similar difficulties due to their inexperience in school management; and
(c) how the Government evaluates the progress and effectiveness of the scheme (c) how the Government evaluates the progress and effectiveness of the scheme since its introduction in this school year?
SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION AND MANPOWER: Mr Deputy President, the answers to Mr NG's questions are as follows:
(a) The first batch of 21 aided secondary schools joined the School Management (a) The first batch of 21 aided secondary schools joined the School Management Initiative (SMI) scheme in September 1991. A general invitation has been issued to schools to join a second batch beginning in September 1992. Returns are not expected until mid-July. However, 10 government schools have already indicated their
interest.
(b) The Government has encouraged active participation of parents and teacher (b) The Government has encouraged active participation of parents and teacher The Government has encouraged active participation of parents and teachers in school management by providing such opportunities in the constitution of the management committee under the SMI. The Education Department, with the help of an Advisory Committee on the SMI, has developed a wide range of reference materials to help schools, parents and teachers adapt to SMI. It will be up to parents and teachers to choose suitable representatives who are able and willing to devote their time and experience to further their constituents' interests on the management committee. The overall question of teachers' workload is a separate issue which is being considered by the Education Commission.
(c) The first batch of 21 schools will experience the full effects of operating (c) The first batch of 21 schools will experience the full effects of operating under the SMI during 1992-93, when they will be given greater flexibility in the spending of their grants. The Education Department plans to evaluate the progress and effectiveness of the scheme by means of questionnaires and interviews during this period. Preliminary findings are expected to become available towards the end of 1993.
Prevention of armed robberies
13. MRS PEGGY LAM asked: Will the Government inform this Council whether appropriate 13. MRS PEGGY LAM asked: Will the Government inform this Council whether appropriate actions or measures have been planned or taken to minimize and prevent the occurrence of armed robberies since the motion debate on law and order in Hong Kong was held in this Council on 11 March this year; if so, how effective such actions or measures have been; and if not, what are the reasons?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr Deputy President, we have taken a number of steps to combat the occurrence of armed robberies. In the case of crimes involving criminals from China, we have improved co-operation with China through better communications and liaison.
At present, this is achieved through the Interpol of which both China and Hong At present, this is achieved through the Interpol of which both China and Hong Kong are members, regular border liaison and visits between the Hong Kong police and mainland public security officers. However, the Commissioner of Police has just returned from a liaison meeting in China at which cross border crime including firearm offences was discussed. It was agreed to step up liaison through stationing a Chinese liaison officer in Hong Kong and strengthening communication between the Hong Kong police and the Guangdong and Shenzhen Interpol Liaison Offices to co-ordinate action in urgent cases. Such measures should be very useful in enabling more efficient exchange of information on the movement of criminals and the influx of firearms across the border.
Liaison with China must, of course, be reinforced by effective action by the Liaison with China must, of course, be reinforced by effective action by the police within Hong Kong. This includes more high profile patrols around premises prone to armed robberies such as goldsmith and jewellery shops. This has met with some success. The number of robberies involving firearms and pistol-like objects has decreased from 61 in January to 32 in April this year. The police have apprehended some of the culprits involved in armed robberies. The robberies in Tai Kok Tsui which took place in April and in Sham Shui Po in March are cases in point. During the first four months of 1992, eight persons have been arrested for robberies involving genuine firearms and 27 for robberies using pistol-like objects. A further eight persons have been charged with a variety of serious offences, including robbery and attempted murder.
To ensure that police equipment is adequate to tackle criminals who are becoming
increasingly sophisticated, the police have recently completed a comprehensive review of their arms and ammunition. A number of improvements have been suggested, including more effective ammunition and revolvers, speed loading equipment and a new style of holster. These suggestions are now being considered urgently within the Administration.
Litter and waste caused by illegal immigrants taking refuge in remote areas
14. MRS PEGGY LAM asked: Regarding recent incidents involving large numbers of 14. MRS PEGGY LAM asked: Regarding recent incidents involving large numbers of illegal immigrants taking refuge in remote areas in Hong Kong, will the Government inform this Council what measures are in place to protect the environment of the areas concerned from pollution, and which departments are responsible for clearing up those sites after the departure of the illegal immigrants?
SECRETARY FOR PLANNING, ENVIRONMENT AND LANDS: Mr Deputy President, the clearance action taken by the Government in connection with the recent arrest of illegal immigrants in the Tin Shui Wai area is an example of how pollution in places where such people are found is dealt with. The measures are essentially concerned with the removal of litter and construction waste.
Prior to their arrest on 4 May 1992, 13 structures occupied by the illegal immigrants were demolished by the contractor employed by the Buildings and Lands Department and the debris and litter was disposed of at the Pillar Point landfill, under supervision by the Civil Engineering Department, which manages the landfill.
Under the Public Health and Municipal Services Ordinance, (Cap 132), the Regional Services Department can abate sanitary nuisances and clear obnoxious matter arising from the unauthorized occupation of such areas. No such action was necessary at Tin Shui Wai however.
Law subject in secondary school curriculum
15. MR JAMES TO asked: Will the Government inform this Council whether the 15. MR JAMES TO asked: Will the Government inform this Council whether the Administration will consider including the subject of law in the curriculum of secondary schools and as a subject for the Hong Kong Certificate of Education
Examination; if so, what specific plan is in the pipeline and if not, why not?
SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION AND MANPOWER: Mr Deputy President, the Education Department has considered the possible inclusion of the subject of law into the curriculum of secondary schools and as a subject for the Hong Kong Certificate of Education Examination on a number of occasions in the past. It has concluded that the idea should not be pursued for the time being, because:
(a) secondary education is intended to be general in nature. To include law as (a) secondary education is intended to be general in nature. To include law as an independent and examination subject would introduce an element of specialist knowledge which is not considered to be appropriate;
(b) the present secondary school curriculum is already full. New subjects can (b) the present secondary school curriculum is already full. New subjects can only be added by taking out existing ones;
(c) law or knowledge of the legal system is already covered in the formal (c) law or knowledge of the legal system is already covered in the formal curriculum. At the secondary level, Economics and Public Affairs, Government and Public Affairs as well as Social Studies cover the basics of law and order, the legal system, law enforcement and the judiciary. At the Advanced Supplementary level, the
newly introduced Liberal Studies provides a more in-depth treatment of similar concepts; and
(d) pupils not taking these subjects will have the opportunity to become exposed (d) pupils not taking these subjects will have the opportunity to become exposed to law and the legal system through extra-curricular activities and school civic education programmes. These are outlined in the "Guidelines on Civic Education in Schools" produced by the Education Department.
Bill of Rights Ordinance
16. MR HENRY TANG asked: Will the Government inform this Council whether the 16. MR HENRY TANG asked: Will the Government inform this Council whether the Government has assessed the implications of the Bill of Rights Ordinance in the context of the Government collecting information on members of the public who are not involved in any criminal or civil actions?
SECRETARY FOR CONSTITUTIONAL AFFAIRS: Mr Deputy President, the Government is aware
that the Bill of Rights Ordinance may have implications for the collection of information concerning members of the public. The Law Reform Commission is examining existing Hong Kong law relating to privacy in general. In particular, it will report on whether legislative or other measures are required to provide protection against, and to provide remedies in respect of undue interference with the privacy of the individual, including matters concerning the acquisition, collection, recording and storage of information and opinions pertaining to individuals by any persons or bodies. A comprehensive report on the issues by a sub-committee of the Law Reform Commission will be released for public consultation and comments in a few months' time. Meanwhile, a government work group under the chairmanship of the Secretary for Home Affairs is studying the appropriate approach to be adopted for data protection, and will have regard to the findings of the Law Reform Commission in its deliberation.
Localization of the Civil Service
17. MR HENRY T 17. MR HENRY T MR HENRY TANG asked: Will the Government inform this Council of the progress in ANG asked: Will the Government inform this Council of the progress in implementing the policy on the localization of the Civil Service?
SECRETARY FOR THE CIVIL SERVICE: Mr Deputy President, under the localization policy suitably qualified local candidates are given preference for appointment. The availability of suitably qualified local officers is also taken into account when considering renewal of contract for overseas officers.
The localization policy has been broadly successful since its introduction in The localization policy has been broadly successful since its introduction in the 1950s: the percentage of overseas officers in the Civil Service as a whole has shrunk from about 4.4% in 1952 to about 1.4% at present. Local officers now fill 63.2% of the directorate posts and 76.9% of the Senior Management/Professional posts (including the Hospital Services Department staff who have been seconded or
transferred to the Hospital Authority). At the very top, local officers also fill half of the Head of Department and Policy Secretary posts.
In the Legal Department, local officers constitute about 14% at the directorate In the Legal Department, local officers constitute about 14% at the directorate level and 52% at the non-directorate level. In the police, they constitute 29% at Assistant Commissioner to Commissioner level, 40% at Superintendent level and 77% at the Inspectorate level. In the Administrative Service, they constitute 62% at directorate level and 85% at the Administrative Officer and Senior Administrative
Officer level.
Practical measures have been drawn up in the Legal Department, the Police Force and the Administrative Service to accelerate the progress of localization. A Double-ladder Scheme and a Development Posts Scheme have been introduced in the Legal Department to groom local non-directorate officers and enhance their suitability for advancement. In the Police Force steps are being taken to identify suitable local officers for career development training courses to develop their potential for further advancement. In the Administrative Service overseas officers have for a number of years now generally been required to retire on reaching the age of 57. This step was introduced to avoid the need to retire a larger number of senior overseas officers closer to 1997.
Localization of the Civil Service is therefore taking place in accordance with the rate at which qualified and suitable local candidates become available. Localization has been and will continue to be a gradual process, during which the high quality of Hong Kong's administration will be maintained.
Illegal immigrant mothers
18. MR TAM YIU-CHUNG asked: Will the Government 18. MR TAM YIU-CHUNG asked: Will the Government MR TAM YIU-CHUNG asked: Will the Government inform this Council: inform this Council:
(a) how many of the 56 illegal immigrant mothers (II mothers) repatriated to (a) how many of the 56 illegal immigrant mothers (II mothers) repatriated to mainland China in January 1988 have been granted exit permits by the Chinese authorities and have already come to Hong Kong;
(b) what are the places of o (b) what are the places of o what are the places of origin of those II mothers who have not yet obtained rigin of those II mothers who have not yet obtained their exit permits; and
(c) what steps will be taken to assist those II mothers who have not yet obta (c) what steps will be taken to assist those II mothers who have not yet obtained their exit permits so that they can come to Hong Kong at an earlier date?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Mr Deputy President, a total of 70 illegal immigrant mothers were removed to China in early 1988. To date, 34 of them have returned to Hong Kong on one-way permits issued by the Chinese authorities. The remaining 36 mothers who have yet to obtain their one-way permits come from Haifeng, Shanmei, Puning, Huiyang, Chaoyang, Panyu and Dongguan.
During the past few years, we have on many occasions raised the matter with the Chinese authorities with the aim of ensuring the early return to Hong Kong of the mothers involved. We will continue to do so, and we hope they will get their permits in the near future.
Complaints against hospitals
19. MR WONG WAI-YIN asked: Will the Government inform this Council of the following: 19. MR WONG WAI-YIN asked: Will the Government inform this Council of the following:
(a) whether Government and su (a) whether Government and su whether Government and subvented hospitals have complaints offices and laid bvented hospitals have complaints offices and laid down procedures for handling public complaints; and whether the channels and procedures for handling public complaints in these hospitals have changed since the establishment of the Hospital Authority;
(b) how the Hospital Authority monitors the handling of public complaints by how the Hospital Authority monitors the handling of public complaints by various hospitals; and
(c) the number of complaints received by government and subvented hospitals in (c) the number of complaints received by government and subvented hospitals in each of the past five years with a breakdown of these figures by nature of complaints?
SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE: Mr Deputy President, the answers are as follows, seriatim:
(a) Before Hospital Authority took over the management of public hospitals in (a) Before Hospital Authority took over the management of public hospitals in December 1991, public complaints received directly by government hospitals as well as those channelled through the media were handled by the former Hospital Services Department in accordance with a set of established procedures. As for subvented hospitals, public complaints were handled by the individual governing bodies
following their own internal guidelines. In both cases, the overriding objective was to address promptly the grievances expressed and to redress where appropriate or desirable in order to improve patient services.
With the integration of all public hospitals under the management of Hosp With the integration of all public hospitals under the management of Hospital Authority in December 1991, procedures have been revised to provide for a two-tier mechanism. Officers are designated in hospitals and in Head Office to ensure that public complaints are handled promptly and thoroughly. Furthermore, there is a
Public Complaints Committee comprising members of the HA Board and other non officials to consider appeal cases with impartiality and independence;
(b) Apart from the mechanism for appeals cited in the answer to part (a) above, (b) Apart from the mechanism for appeals cited in the answer to part (a) above, Hospital Authority further monitors the situation through its Patient and Community Relations Committee. This Committee again comprises members of the HA Board and non-officials. Its role is to detect persistent trends relating to a certain hospital or specialty and to identify any underlying problems. To this end, individual
hospitals are required to submit monthly statistical reports on public complaints for analysis and collation; and
(c) Statistics on public complaints received by government hospita (c) Statistics on public complaints received by government hospita Statistics on public complaints received by government hospitals were kept ls were kept by the former Hospital Services Department only from July 1989. Similar statistics are not available for subvented hospitals. A breakdown by nature of the complaints is at Annex. Meanwhile, it is the intention of Hospital Authority to develop a more detailed analysis on the nature of these complaints in future according to the
hospitals, specialties, service units or personnel involved.
Annex
Statistics on public complaints received by government hospitals July-Dec 1989
Nature Numb Nature Number of
of Complaints Complaints of Complaints Complaints
Medical 174 Medical 174
Nursing 61 Nursing 61
Others 214 Others 214
Total 449 Total 449
Jan-Dec 1990
Nature Number of Nature Number of
of Complaints Complaints of Complaints Complaints
Medical 308 Medical 308
Nursing 111 Nursing 111
Others 477 Others 477
Total 896 Total 896
Jan-Nov 1991
A total of 1 206 public complaints were received by government hospitals before A total of 1 206 public complaints were received by government hospitals before Hospital Authority took over in December 1991. Analysis on the nature of these complaints is still in progress and no separate breakdown is available.
Post-retirement employment of senior civil servants
20. MR CHEUNG MAN-KWONG asked: In view of public concern over the employment of high 20. MR CHEUNG MAN-KWONG asked: In view of public concern over the employment of high ranking civil servants by the private sector upon their retirement or resignation, will the Government inform this Council of the following:
(a) the number of (a) the number of the number of civil servants of directorate rank or above who applied for civil servants of directorate rank or above who applied for permission to work in the private sector upon retirement over the past five years; the numbers of applications approved and rejected respectively; the number of applications approved with conditions attached; and the reasons for those applications which were rejected;
(b) what posts were held prior to retirement by those whose applications were (b) what posts were held prior to retirement by those whose applications were approved; the nature of business of the private organizations concerned and the posts to be held by these officers; whether they will continue to receive pensions during their employment by the private sector;
(c) whether consideration has been given to the possibility that these former (c) whether consideration has been given to the possibility that these former civil servants will intentionally or inadvertently make use of the information obtained while in the Civil Service to facilitate the business development of the private organization concerned, thus leading to the leakage of government information; if so, what measures the Government will adopt to prevent this from happening so as to safeguard public interests; and
(d) why the requirement to apply for permission to work is not extended to those (d) why the requirement to apply for permission to work is not extended to those civil servants who resign of their own accord?
SECRETARY FOR THE CIVIL SERVICE: Mr Deputy President, the answers to the questions raised are as follows:
(a) In the five years up to the end of March 1992, a total of 119 applications (a) In the five years up to the end of March 1992, a total of 119 applications from 76 retired directorate officers were referred to the Advisory Committee on Post-retirement Employment for consideration. Three applications were not recommended, 31 were approved with the imposition of a sanitization period of between one and six months and the others were approved without conditions.
(b) The retired directorate civil servants include Administrative Officers, (b) The retired directorate civil servants include Administrative Officers, directorate staff of the disciplined services and chief professionals in the medical, engineering, legal and accounting fields. Some of them have joined financial and trading enterprises as non-executive directors whilst others have entered private practice after retirement. They continue to receive their civil service pensions during any employment in the private sector.
(c) The Advisory Committee takes into account the applicant's previous (c) The Advisory Committee takes into account the applicant's previous involvement in policy formulation in considering whether this would benefit the prospective employer in an improper manner or enable the applicant to gain an unfair advantage over his competitors. Views are sought from the respective Policy Secretaries for each application on the question of conflict of interest. Consideration is also given to whether the proposed employment will result in the officer having an undesirable public profile. Conditions, such as a sanitization period or sanctions against dealing with specific companies, may be imposed as necessary. The provisions of the Official Secrets Acts continue to apply to an officer after his retirement.
(d) The Hong Kong pensions legislation provides the Governor with the power to (d) The Hong Kong pensions legislation provides the Governor with the power to suspend a retired officer's pension if the pensioner takes up any post-retirement employment within two years (five years for an officer at Secretary rank or above) after his retirement and without the prior permission of the Governor. The Hong Kong pensions legislation does not cover officers who resign from the service. However the provisions of the Official Secrets Acts apply to these officers after they resign from the service.
DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Mrs Rita FAN, you had a question down which I approved exceptionally under Standing Order 17.
MRS RITA FAN: Mr Deputy President, I appreciate very much your exceptional approval. I note that the Chief Secretary wishes to make a statement on the overall situation of the Government's emergency response to the rainstorm. I believe that would offer Members an opportunity to ask some supplementary questions after the statement. In view of that and in order that the Council's time can be used efficiently I propose to withdraw my original question.
DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Chief Secretary, you may make your statement now, and I would just remind Members that under Standing Order 20, they may put short questions to the Chief Secretary for the purpose of elucidating the statement.
Statement
Government's emergency response to the rainstorm on Friday, 8 May 1992
CHIEF SECRETARY: Mr Deputy President, the rainstorm which struck Hong Kong last Friday morning was one of the most intense ever recorded in the territory. In some places, particularly the north western part of Hong Kong Island over 300 mm or 12 inches of rain fell within nine hours. The storm brought in its wake serious flooding, more than 175 landslips, disruption to our transport and communication system and tragically, the loss of five lives. I am sure that I speak for every Member of this Council and indeed for the whole community, when I say that the families and friends
of those who died have our deepest sympathy. We share the sadness of the families and we offer our condolences on the loss of their dear ones.
I think that most people understand that the intensity and severity of the storm could not have been foreseen and that government departments were faced with a very difficult situation. Having said this, I accept that the storm and its aftermath have revealed some shortcomings in our emergency response mechanisms. We have moved quickly to identify the problems and I can assure Members that we are determined to learn the lessons. I am not in a position today to announce the full details of how we intend to improve our Emergency Response System but I can explain in general terms what we are planning to put in place.
We have to improve our arrangements so that we are able to respond quickly and effectively to emergencies but those responses must be sufficiently flexible so that we avoid alarming the public or disrupting the daily life of the community unnecessarily. Clearly, we do not want a full scale emergency response every time we get heavy rain but we do need a system which alerts government departments so that they are ready to respond once it becomes clear that we are facing a major problem. Our aim, therefore, is to have a two-stage arrangement.
Firstly, the Royal Observatory will trigger the first stage on the basis of their forecasting of heavy rainstorms likely to affect Hong Kong. It will involve a series of warnings to government departments so that their emergency teams and responses can be put in place quickly. This is essentially a matter of priming the departments and making sure staff are in position and alert.
But on most occasions heavy rainstorms do not develop into the sort of inundation we saw last Friday, and it will clearly be a mistake to trigger a full emergency response every time. It is also clear that it is impossible to forecast accurately the level of rainfall. We believe, therefore, that the second stage of the Rainstorm Alert System should be triggered by the actual rainfall levels being recorded
throughout the territory. As we will have already alerted relevant government departments before the rain starts to fall, this system will ensure that we are ready to respond quickly and flexibly once it becomes clear that we might have to contend with serious difficulties. And it is at this stage that the public will be given early and clear advice on how to respond.
We are still working on the details of these arrangements but our aims are cl We are still working on the details of these arrangements but our aims are clear,
we want a system based on objective triggers which leads to a high state of preparedness by government departments. We also need to respond flexibly so that the public is given clear and appropriate advice. I can assure Members that we shall complete this work very quickly and make known the details as soon as possible.
One of the difficulties last Friday was that the storm struck between 6 and 7 am and disrupted schooling arrangements. The Director of Education was concerned to avoid a situation in which some children set off for their schools in difficult conditions only to find the schools closed or that there was no teacher there to take care of them. But our response must be sufficiently flexible to cope, even if the emergency arises at the most inconvenient or difficult time. The Director of
Education is already working on a plan to achieve this and is getting maximum co-operation from the schools. Following on from the events of last week, we are agreed that it is better to err on the side of caution and close the schools. This will certainly be our guideline in the future.
I would now like to inform Members of the present position of the more than 175 landslips which occurred during the storm. The great majority of these posed no serious threat of injury or disruption to communications. Our works department moved quickly to deal with the landslips, particularly those affecting public safety and communications. More than 100 geotechnical staff, scores of other engineers and more than 100 contractors' staff were deployed, and remedial measures set in hand. All except four or five roads were cleared within 24 hours, and the protective work for many of the landslips was carried out in the same period.
The highest 24 hour rainfall occurred in the northwest corner of Hong Kong Island where Baguio Villas is situated. I can assure those residents of Baguio Villas who have had to leave their homes that we are doing everything we can to complete our geotechnical work as quickly as possible. Safety must be the highest priority but of course we understand the unhappiness and disruption faced by residents of the affected blocks. By the end of this week we will be in a position to make a decision on whether it is safe for residents to return to Block 26.
We are also carrying out a thorough investigation into the causes of the landslip behind Baguio Villas and are drawing up detailed plans for the remedial work necessary to ensure the long-term stability of the slope. Full information on both will be made public as soon as it is available.
I would now like to brief Members on the current situation on our Slope
Stabilization Programme. This programme began in 1976 and we have prepared a catalogue of about 10 000 slopes which might require stabilization works. We have completed our investigation work on 4 300 of these and have determined that only 880 require work. This work has been completed. The investigation programme will proceed at the rate of about 1 000 each year and of course we have given priority to those which are most likely to need work. We have also given priority to clearing especially vulnerable slopes in squatter areas, and once again, we have made important progress. In 1982 we estimated that up to 60 000 squatters were at risk from potentially unstable slopes. Almost all these areas have been cleared and the squatters have been provided with alternative better housing. We now estimate that there are fewer than 2 000 squatters remaining on especially vulnerable terrain and all of these people will be rehoused by early 1994 at the very latest.
The Government's Catalogue of Slopes is to be made available for public inspection in the Geotechnical Information Unit and the Department is pleased to provide advice to anyone who needs it. In conclusion, Mr Deputy President, I think we can all agree that we have made enormous progress on this issue over the last 16 years. The limited damage from last Friday's storm is proof that the $1 billion of public money invested in slope stabilization works has been well spent.
DEPUTY PRESIDENT: I would remind Members that under Standing Order 20 questions are to be short for the purpose of elucidating the statement.
MRS RITA FAN: Mr Deputy President, the Chief Secretary said in his statement that he is not in a position to announce the response system today but he would want to make the details known as soon as possible. Would he elucidate on how soon is "as soon as possible", in particular in relation to schooling and examination sites for the candidates?
CHIEF SECRETARY: Mr Deputy President, my understanding from the Director is that he is, as I have said in my statement, getting very good co-operation from the schools. One of the key issues which he has to address and which he needs co-operation for is to ensure that the schools can look after children who arrive at school early in the morning before any warnings of closures have happened. I understand that schools are very co-operative over this and that they are simply now finalizing the details.
So I would expect to have answers to Mrs FAN's question within days rather than weeks.
MR HUI YIN-FAT: May I ask the Administration if it is still the official view that parents should decide whether to send their children to school during a rainstorm or that it is the official responsibility of the Director of Education to do so?
CHIEF SECRETARY: Mr Deputy President, I do not think that one can make hard and fast rules. I believe it is of course the judgment of the Director of Education as to whether schools should be open or closed. Even, however, if schools are left open, in the final analysis the parents do have responsibility to decide whether in their opinion they wish their children to miss a day at school than to go to school. The primary responsibility to the opening and closing of the schools is a matter for the Director of Education.
MR MARTlN LEE: Mr Deputy President, does the Administration now accept that the Education Department was at fault on Friday morning in not having announced suspension of school earlier than it did?
CHIEF SECRETARY: Mr Deputy President, I do not think it is time at this stage to make recriminations or judgments about whether decisions taken at that time were correct or incorrect. The problem at that time was that the Director of Education did not have in place a system which we are now very anxious to have in place to ensure that if children did go to school and schools were subsequently closed there would be someone there to look after them. That was his primary concern and that, I think, governed much of his decision making on that morning. What we must have is a system which gives him the flexibility to make decisions that he can close the schools even though some children have already set out for school in the sure knowledge that those arriving at school will be looked after; but if it is in the interest of other children that they should not go, then they should not. That is the system we need to have in place; that is what we are working towards now.
MR VINCENT CHENG (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, will the Administration
consider enlisting the help of taxi operators and make good use of their radio contacts so as to keep the Administration informed of the road situation in bad weather at the first opportunity?
CHIEF SECRETARY: I would certainly consider that helpful suggestion.
MRS ELSIE TU: Mr Deputy President. since the warning system depends on the Royal Observatory, does the Royal Observatory have the equipment instrumentally possible to foretell the weather; and if not, will this be provided?
CHIEF SECRETARY: Mr Deputy President, my understanding from the Director is that he has very good equipment; and indeed we have been spending more money recently in the Royal Observatory. But it is simply not possible, even with the best equipment in the world, to forecast the sort of rainfall that is going to fall in a particular place at a particular time. No amount of technology, no amount of resources can produce that degree of accuracy. And I think under the circumstances that is why we are moving towards a system which is intensely practical, that is, it is based firstly on a warning system and then upon a situation on the ground, that is, how much rain is actually falling in a particular place which will give us very good warning that trouble is about to happen; and we can make that judgment rather than relying on somebody's judgment as to whether we are going to have heavy rain or not.
Motions
PENSIONS (INCREASE) ORDINANCE
THE FINANCIAL SECRETARY moved the following motion:
"That with effect from 1 April 1992 Schedule 2 to the Pensions (Increase) Ordinance be amended -
RESOLVED that with effect from 1 April 1992 Schedule 2 to the Pensions (Increase) Ordinance be amended -
(a) in Part I by adding - (a) in Part I by adding -
"25. The adjusted pension under paragraph 24 may be further increased by "25. The adjusted pension under paragraph 24 may be further increased by 11.54%.";
(b) in Part II by adding - (b) in Part II by adding -
"24. The adjusted pension "24. The adjusted pension The adjusted pension under paragraph 23 may be further increased by under paragraph 23 may be further increased by 11.54%.";
(c) in Part III by adding - (c) in Part III by adding -
"24. The adjusted pension under paragraph 23 may be further increased by "24. The adjusted pension under paragraph 23 may be further increased by 11.54%.";
(d) in Part IV by adding - (d) in Part IV by adding -
"23. The adjusted pension under paragraph 22 may be "23. The adjusted pension under paragraph 22 may be The adjusted pension under paragraph 22 may be further increased by further increased by 11.54%.";
(e) in Part V by adding - (e) in Part V by adding -
"22. The adjusted pension under paragraph 21 may be further increased by "22. The adjusted pension under paragraph 21 may be further increased by 11.54%.";
(f) in Part VI by adding - (f) in Part VI by adding -
"21. The adjusted pension under paragraph 20 may be further increased by "21. The adjusted pension under paragraph 20 may be further increased by 11.54%.";
(g) in Part VII by adding - (g) in Part VII by adding -
"20. The adjusted pension under paragraph 19 may be further increased by "20. The adjusted pension under paragraph 19 may be further increased by 11.54%.";
(h) in Part VIII by adding - (h) in Part VIII by adding -
"19. The adjusted pension under paragraph 18 may be further increased by "19. The adjusted pension under paragraph 18 may be further increased by 11.54%.";
(i) in Part IX by (i) in Part IX by in Part IX by adding - adding -
"17. The adjusted pension under paragraph 16 may be further increased by "17. The adjusted pension under paragraph 16 may be further increased by 11.54%.";
(j) in Part X by adding - (j) in Part X by adding -
"16. The adjusted pension under paragraph 15 may be further increased by "16. The adjusted pension under paragraph 15 may be further increased by 11.54%.";
(k) in Part XI by adding - (k) in Part XI by adding -
"15. The adjuste "15. The adjuste The adjusted pension under paragraph 14 may be further increased by d pension under paragraph 14 may be further increased by 11.54%.";
(l) in Part XII by adding - (l) in Part XII by adding -
"14. The adjusted pension under paragraph 13 may be further increased by "14. The adjusted pension under paragraph 13 may be further increased by 11.54%.";
(m) in Part XIII by adding - (m) in Part XIII by adding -
"13. The adjusted pension under paragraph "13. The adjusted pension under paragraph The adjusted pension under paragraph 12 may be further increased by 12 may be further increased by 11.54%.";
(n) in Part XIV by adding - (n) in Part XIV by adding -
"12. The adjusted pension under paragraph 11 may be further increased by "12. The adjusted pension under paragraph 11 may be further increased by 11.54%.";
(o) in Part XV by adding - (o) in Part XV by adding -
"11. The adjusted pension under paragraph 10 may be further increase "11. The adjusted pension under paragraph 10 may be further increase The adjusted pension under paragraph 10 may be further increased by 11.54%.";
(p) in Part XVI by adding - (p) in Part XVI by adding -
"10. The adjusted pension under paragraph 9 may be further increased by "10. The adjusted pension under paragraph 9 may be further increased by 11.54%.";
(q) in Part XVII by adding - (q) in Part XVII by adding -
"9. The adjusted pension under paragraph 8 may be further increased by "9. The adjusted pension under paragraph 8 may be further increased by 11.54%.";
(r) in Pa (r) in Part XVIII by adding - rt XVIII by adding -
"8. The adjusted pension under paragraph 7 may be further increased by "8. The adjusted pension under paragraph 7 may be further increased by 11.54%.";
(s) in Part XIX by adding - (s) in Part XIX by adding -
"7. The adjusted pension under paragraph 6 may be further increased by "7. The adjusted pension under paragraph 6 may be further increased by 11.54%.";
(t) in Part XX by adding - (t) in Part XX by adding -
"6. The "6. The adjusted pension under paragraph 5 may be further increased by adjusted pension under paragraph 5 may be further increased by 11.54%.";
(u) in Part XXI by adding - (u) in Part XXI by adding -
"5. The adjusted pension under paragraph 4 may be further increased by "5. The adjusted pension under paragraph 4 may be further increased by 11.54%.";
(v) in Part XXII by adding - (v) in Part XXII by adding -
"4. The adjusted pension under parag "4. The adjusted pension under parag The adjusted pension under paragraph 3 may be further increased by raph 3 may be further increased by 11.54%.";
(w) in Part XXIII by adding - (w) in Part XXIII by adding -
"3. The adjusted pension under paragraph 2 may be further increased by "3. The adjusted pension under paragraph 2 may be further increased by 11.54%.";
(x) in Part XXIV by adding - (x) in Part XXIV by adding -
"2. The adjusted pension under paragraph 1 may be further incre "2. The adjusted pension under paragraph 1 may be further incre The adjusted pension under paragraph 1 may be further increased by ased by 11.54%.";
(y) by adding - (y) by adding -
"PART XXV
Applicable to a basic pension based on
a salary in force from 1 April 1991
to 31 March 1992 inclusive
1. The basic pension may be increased by 11.54%.". 1. The basic pension may be increased by 11.54%.".
He said: Mr Deputy President, I move the motion standing in my name on the Order Paper.
The Government's declared policy is to maintain the original purchasing power of civil service pensions, including pensions payable under the Widows and Orphans Pension Scheme and under the Widows' and Children's Pensions Scheme. This is achieved by periodic pension adjustments in line with the movements in the Consumer Price Index (A).
During the latest review period from 1 April 1991 to 31 March 1992, the moving annual average of the Consumer Price Index (A) rose by 11.54%.
It is therefore proposed that a pension increase of 11.54% be awarded with effect from 1 April 1992. The total cost of increasing all pensions by this percentage is estimated to be $198.29 million for a full year. This is a statutory charge which may be authorized by resolution of this Council under the appropriate Ordinances.
Mr Deputy President, I beg to move.
Question on the motion proposed, put and agreed to.
WIDOWS AND ORPHANS PENSION (INCREASE) ORDINANCE
THE FINANCIAL SECRETARY moved the following motion:
"That the Schedule to the Widows and Orphans Pension (Increase) Ordinance be amended by adding -
"52. The pension calculated on the total contributions up to 31 March 1991 "52. The pension calculated on the total contributions up to 31 March 1991 inclusive plus the total increases in pension up to 31 March 1992 may be increased by 11.54% with effect from 1 April 1992.
53. The pension calculated on contributions from 1 April 1991 to 31 March 1992 53. The pension calculated on contributions from 1 April 1991 to 31 March 1992 inclusive may be increased by 11.54% with effect from 1 April 1992."."
He said: Mr Deputy President, I move the motion standing in my name on the Order Paper.
My remarks on the previous motion, explaining the resolution on the Pensions (Increase) Ordinance, apply equally to this motion.
Mr Deputy President, I beg to move.
Question on the motion proposed, put and agreed to.
TELEPHONE ORDINANCE
THE SECRETARY FOR ECONOMIC SERVICES moved the following motion:
"That the Schedule to the Telephone Ordinance be amended in Part VI by repealing item 5 and substituting -
"5. In respect of international "5. In respect of international
toll free calls -
(a) Registration (a) Registration Registration $1,000
(b) Service (b) Service Service $4,500 per annum $4,500 per annum
(c) International telephone (c) International telephone International telephone Such charges as are Such charges as are
call contained in the call contained in the
terms referred to in terms referred to in
section 25 of the section 25 of the
Ordinance Ordinance
(d) Alteration of the (d) Alteration of the Alteration of the $90"."
terminating number terminating number
schedule
She said: Mr Deputy President, I move the motion standing in my name on the Order Paper.
Section 26(1) of the Telephone Ordinance provides that the Hong Kong Telephone Company may charge for its services at rates which do not exceed the limits shown in the Schedule to the Ordinance. Under section 26(2) of the Ordinance, this Council can amend the Schedule by resolution.
The Company wishes to expand its international toll-free service. The Schedule to the Ordinance needs to be amended to reflect the new scope of service.
The expanded service will allow local residents to dial international toll-free numbers, such as the "1-800" numbers in the United States, from Hong Kong. The companies which offer these toll-free numbers will pay for the call charges, and will be billed in Hong Kong. They will also be required to pay registration and annual service charges, as well as a separate one-off charge if they wish to change numbers.
The proposed maximum charges for the revised service are shown in the resolution The proposed maximum charges for the revised service are shown in the resolution before this Council. We have examined these charges and consider them to be a fair reflection of the costs of providing the service.
My Deputy President, I beg to move.
At this point, Mr David LI declared interest as deputy chairman of the Hong Kong Telecommunications Limited.
Question on the motion proposed, put and agreed to.
First Reading of Bills
POST OFFICE (AMENDMENT) BILL 1992
EMPLOYMENT (AMENDMENT) (NO. 4) BILL 1992
CRIMES (AMENDMENT) BILL 1992
LAND REGISTRATION (AMENDMENT) BILL 1992
Bills read the First time and ordered to be set down for Second Reading pursuant to Standing Order 41(3).
Second Reading of Bills
POST OFFICE (AMENDMENT) BILL 1992
THE SECRETARY FOR ECONOMIC SERVICES moved the Second Reading of: "A Bill to amend the Post Office Ordinance."
She said: Mr Deputy President, I move that the Post Office (Amendment) Bill 1992 be read a Second time. The Bill remedies some existing deficiencies in the Post Office Ordinance.
First, the Bill extends the definition of "Postmaster General" (PMG) to cover First, the Bill extends the definition of "Postmaster General" (PMG) to cover
the Deputy Postmaster General so that the latter can carry out the PMG's statutory duties if necessary.
Secondly, the Bill authorizes the PMG to make departmental rules allowing the destruction of undeliverable mail.
Thirdly, outdated provisions prohibiting the posting of lottery tickets or documents relating to lotteries, irrespective of whether or not the lottery is legal, are amended to restrict their application purely to illegal lotteries. Similarly obsolescent provisions prohibiting the posting of "coins or gold or silver bullion" are repealed.
Fourthly, the Bill removes inconsistencies in the penalties set for different offences under the Ordinance, and, where necessary, increases the level to maintain the deterrent effect.
I move that the debate on this motion be now adjourned.
Question on the adjournment proposed, put and agreed to.
EMPLOYMENT (AMENDMENT) (NO. 4) BILL 1992
THE SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION AND MANPOWER moved the Second Reading of: "A Bill to amend the Employment Ordinance."
He said: Mr Deputy President, I move that the Employment (Amendment) (No. 4) Bill 1992 be read a Second time.
The Bill seeks to plug certain loopholes in the principal Ordinance by removing ambiguities and inadequacies in the provisions relating to severance and long service payment.
First, we propose to improve the protection accorded to an employee in the calculation of severance and long service payments. At present an employee's entitlement is subject to a maximum equivalent to the total amount of his last 12 months' wages. For purposes of calculating severance and long service payment, an employee on sick leave, maternity leave or leave arising from work injuries during
his last 12 months of employment is deemed to have been paid full wages. Clause 2 of the Bill proposes that this deeming provision be expanded to cover situations where an employee has been put on short time work or has taken no-pay sick leave or no-pay maternity leave. It also proposes that the provision, which at present applies only to employees being dismissed or laid off, should be extended to cover employees who resign because of ill health or old age and dependants of an employee who dies in service.
Secondly, we propose to remove the "cross-harbour" provision as a ground for Secondly, we propose to remove the "cross-harbour" provision as a ground for severance payment. At present, an employee whose employment is terminated as a result of his employer moving the workplace across the harbour is entitled to severance payment. However, the transport infrastructure in Hong Kong is now such that a geographical demarcation based solely on crossing the harbour has become quite anachronistic. Clause 4 of the Bill removes the "cross-harbour" provision. However, if a change of workplace causes hardship to an employee to an extent sufficiently serious to establish a constructive dismissal under common law, the employee may still have a claim to severance payment.
Thirdly, we propose that an employee should not be deprived of his entitlement to severance or long service payment merely because he has given notice of resignation. Under existing provisions, an employee who is dismissed other than for serious misconduct is eligible for severance or long service payment. Sections 31D(1)(c) and 31T(1)(c) of the Ordinance provide that an employee shall be taken to be dismissed, and may claim severance or long service payment, if he terminates the contract without notice or payment in lieu because of certain conduct on the part of his employer, for example, ill treatment. However, if an employee in this situation inadvertently gives notice of resignation despite his being entitled to leave without notice, severance or long service payment will not be payable. Clauses 5 and 9 of the Bill rectify this anomaly.
Fourthly, we propose to remove the ambiguities in the existing provisions on setting off of retirement scheme payment against severance or long service payment. To ensure that employers will not have to pay double benefits, clauses 7 and 11 put it beyond doubt that payment of severance or long service payment can be set off by retirement scheme payment and vice versa.
The existing provisions of the long service payment scheme provide that where an employee dies in service, his statutory beneficiaries, namely his spouse, children
or parents in that order, shall be entitled to the long service payment due to him. If the employee is also covered by a retirement scheme, the retirement scheme payment can be set off by the long service payment. Problems arise when the nominated beneficiary of the retirement scheme is not the same person as the statutory beneficiary of the long service payment. To ensure that under such circumstances the statutory beneficiary of a deceased employee will have first call on the long service payment and that an employer will not have to pay double benefits, clause 12 of the Bill proposes that the trustee of the relevant retirement scheme shall return to the employer the amount of retirement benefits equivalent to long service payment and pay the balance, if any, to the nominated beneficiary.
Fifthly, we propose to plug a loophole in the existing provisions whereby an unscrupulous employer can escape criminal sanction for withholding severance payment by filing a claim at the Labour Tribunal. Clause 8 provides that once the Labour Tribunal has ruled that severance payment is payable, payment should be made by the employer within 14 days unless another time limit is set by the Tribunal. An employer who fails to make severance payment accordingly shall be guilty of an offence.
Mr Deputy President, I move that the debate on this motion be now adjourned. Question on the adjournment proposed, put and agreed to.
CRIMES (AMENDMENT) BILL 1992
THE SECRETARY FOR SECURITY moved the Second Reading of: "A Bill to amend the Crimes Ordinance."
He said: Mr Deputy President, I move that the Crimes (Amendment) (No. 2) Bill 1992 be read a Second time. The Bill seeks to amend section 160 of the Crimes Ordinance, which concerns the offence of loitering, so as to make the provision compatible with the Bill of Rights Ordinance.
The present section 160, subsection (1) empowers police officers to require an accused person to give an explanation of suspicious behaviour if he is found loitering in a public place or in the common parts of any building. This requirement risks infringing the presumption of innocence guaranteed by Article 11(1) of the Bill of
Rights Ordinance, and the right of an accused person not to be compelled to confess guilt.
This problem will be removed by the proposed amendment. Any failure of a suspect to give a satisfactory explanation of his presence and behaviour will only form part of the evidence in the case; it will not, as it does in the present offence, constitute a part of the offence. The amendment will also require the prosecution to prove "intent" on the part of the accused to commit an arrestable offence. We are confident that this formulation will be compatible with the Bill of Rights Ordinance.
The loitering offence has been an effective means of crime prevention, and we loitering offence has been an effective means of crime prevention, and we need to retain it as such. The ability of the police to prevent and combat crime should not be affected adversely by the proposed amendment.
Mr Deputy President, I move that the debate on this motion be now adjourned. Mr Deputy President, I move that the debate on this motion be now adjourned. Question on the adjournment proposed, put and agreed to.
LAND REGISTRATION (AMENDMENT) BILL 1992
THE SECRETARY FOR PLANNING, ENVIRONMENT AND LANDS moved the Second Reading of: "A Bill to amend the Land Registration Ordinance."
He said: Mr Deputy President, I move the Second Reading of the Land Registration (Amendment) Bill 1992. The amendments are required to update certain provisions in the Land Registration Ordinance and to improve the operation of the Land Registry.
The first proposal of the Bill deals with "lis pendens", a term which means pending action. Outdated references relating to the term in the Ordinance are removed and the definition is provided.
The second proposal seeks to allow more flexibility in the interpretation of the The second proposal seeks to allow more flexibility in the interpretation of the term "floating charge" by deleting its definition. This approach is consistent with that adopted by the ad hoc group of this Council which studied amendments to the Conveyancing and Property Ordinance.
At present, title to land is unaffected by a will until the testator dies and At present, title to land is unaffected by a will until the testator dies and
there is a grant of probate. It is not necessary to register any will with the Land Office. The third proposal of the Bill therefore seeks to remove all references to wills from the Ordinance and its subsidiary legislation. Wills already deposited in the Land Office, which number about 150, will be handed over to the Registrar, Supreme Court for custody.
Fourth, the Bill proposes that a person commits an offence if he wilfully or maliciously destroys, removes or defaces Land Office documents. This supplements the existing offence for dishonestly destroying or defacing such documents. The penalties for the two offences are set at the same level as for corresponding offences in the Companies Ordinance, that is, a fine and imprisonment for the first offence and imprisonment for the second.
The last proposal relates to the power to make regulations. In order to reduce the workload of the Executive Council in considering routine and technical matters in respect of the Ordinance, we propose that the powers to make regulations under section 28(1) and to amend the Second Schedule of the Ordinance under section 30(2) be vested in the Land Officer instead of the Governor in Council.
Mr Deputy President, I move that the debate on this motion be adjourned. Mr Deputy President, I move that the debate on this motion be adjourned. Question on the adjournment proposed, put and agreed to.
BANKRUPTCY (AMENDMENT) BILL 1992
Resumption of debate on Second Reading which was moved on 11 March 1992. Question on the Second Reading proposed.
MRS MIRIAM LAU: Mr Deputy President, the purpose of this Bill is to make provision for the setting up of a separate Official Receiver's Office as part of the reorganization programme of the Registrar General's Department. The Legislative Council ad hoc group formed to study the Bill sought to be satisfied that this proposal is justified.
According to the Administration, the Registrar General's Department is responsible for a range of disparate and unrelated activities. That the department
exists in its present form is due largely to historical reasons. Reviews of the department, including an outside consultancy, concluded that the functions and objectives of the department should be rationalized to facilitate improvement to cope with the rapidly growing demand brought about by the expansion of the economy. A series of changes have already been effected in the last two years to implement the recommendations, and the establishment of the Official Receiver's Office now proposed under the Bill is an integral part of the exercise. The ad hoc group was given to understand that further aspects of the reorganization programme would include the setting up of the Companies Registry and the Land Registry as separate entities, and the transfer of the Legal Advisory and Conveyance Section of the Land Division to the Buildings and Lands Department. On completion of these moves, the Registrar General's Department would cease to exist.
Specifically on the proposal to set up the Official Receiver's Office, the Specifically on the proposal to set up the Official Receiver's Office, the Administration assured Members that it would enhance the efficient administration of the public insolvency service at no extra cost to the public coffer. A major management change is to organize the workload of the Office by individual cases instead of functional processes so that a single officer will be responsible for the overall management of a case, thereby improving management control and accountability. This whole case management approach will help improve efficiency and enable the Official Receiver to respond more effectively to the demand for services.
The Administration also assured Members that with the establishment of the new Official Receiver's Office, greater emphasis will be placed on business management, and the feasibility of farming out more cases to private sector practitioners will be explored. Having studied the executive summary and Chapter 7 of the Coopers and Lybrand Consultancy report, the ad hoc group is satisfied that the reorganization proposal involving the Official Receiver's Office is in line with the recommendations of the consultants and is appropriate and supportable.
Mr Deputy President, I would like to mention here that the ad hoc group has received a late submission on the Bill from the Hong Kong Society of Accountants. The submission urges a greater private sector involvement in the handling of insolvency cases thereby enabling the department to concentrate more on its public sector roles. In this regard, the Society has proposed amendments to sections 285 and 194 of the Companies Ordinance (Cap 32) and has urged for urgent attention to be given to the matter. The two sections in question deal with the handling of unclaimed assets by the Official Receiver's Office and the appointment of the Official
Receiver as the provisional liquidator on the making of a winding-up order. We are given to understand that the Administration has been in correspondence with the Society on the various suggestions. The proposals to amend sections 285 and 194 of the Companies Ordinance have been referred some time ago to the Sub-committee on Insolvency Law Reform of the Law Reform Commission for consideration, and will be dealt with separately outside the context of the present Bill. May I invite the Secretary for Monetary Affairs to elaborate on and confirm this point.
Mr Deputy President, in his speech moving the Second Reading of this Bill on 11 March 1992, the Secretary for Monetary Affairs said that the proposed changes in the management structure and working practices of the new Official Receiver's office would allow for a more efficient and streamlined operation. I am sure the business community and members of the public who may be affected by the service of the Official Receiver are keen to see that the promised improvements will be delivered. With these remarks, I support the Bill.
SECRETARY FOR MONETARY AFFAIRS: Mr Deputy President, I am grateful to Mr Peter WONG, Mrs Miriam LAU and other Members of the ad hoc group for their careful consideration of, and support for, the Bill.
Mrs Miriam LAU has identified the purpose of the Bill and I will confine myself to confirming that the Administration believes that the proposed changes will result in a more efficient and streamlined operation.
Mrs Miriam LAU has also referred to a recent submission by the Hong Kong Society Mrs Miriam LAU has also referred to a recent submission by the Hong Kong Society of Accountants seeking greater private sector involvement in the handling of corporate insolvencies. We have been in dialogue with the Hong Kong Society of Accountants on this proposal and the Registrar General will pursue the matter further with the Society. I can confirm that the amendments to certain sections of the Companies Ordinance proposed by the Society will be considered by the Law Reform Commission's Sub-committee on Insolvency Law Reform in its review of the law relating to insolvency.
I shall, in the Committee stage, be moving a minor technical amendment to one of the consequential amendments contained in the Bill. This has the support of the ad hoc group.
Mr Deputy President, with these comments, I beg to move. Mr Deputy President, with these comments, I beg to move.
Question on the Second Reading of the Bill put and agreed to. Bill read the Second time.
Bill committed to a Committee of the whole Council pursuant to Standing Order 43(1).
STAMP DUTY (AMENDMENT) BILL 1992
Resumption of debate on Second Reading which was moved on 29 January 1992. Question on the Second Reading of the Bill proposed, put and agreed to. Bill read the Second time.
Bill committed to a Committee of the whole Council pursuant to Standing Order 43(1).
Committee stage of Bills
Council went into Committee.
BANKRUPTCY (AMENDMENT) BILL 1992
Clauses 1 to 7 and 9 to 13 were agreed to.
Clause 8
SECRETARY FOR MONETARY AFFAIRS: Mr Chairman, I move the amendment as set out in the paper circulated to Members.
It is proposed to amend clause 8 which contains consequential amendments to the Supreme Court Ordinance (Cap. 4). The purpose is to take into account the newly introduced paragraph (ix) of section 9(2).
Members of the ad hoc group have examined this technical amendment and indicated Members of the ad hoc group have examined this technical amendment and indicated
their support for it.
Mr Chairman, I beg to move.
Proposed amendment
Clause 8
That clause 8 be amended -
(a) by renumbering it as clause 8(1); (a) by renumbering it as clause 8(1);
(b) by adding - (b) by adding -
"(2) Section 9(3) is amended by repealing "(viii)" and "(2) Section 9(3) is amended by repealing "(viii)" and Section 9(3) is amended by repealing "(viii)" and substituting "(ix)". substituting "(ix)". (3) Section 9(4) is amended by repealing "(viii)" and substituting "(ix)".". (3) Section 9(4) is amended by repealing "(viii)" and substituting "(ix)".". Question on the amendment proposed, put and agreed to.
Question on clause 8, as amended, proposed, put and agreed to.
STAMP DUTY (AMENDMENT) BILL 1992
Clauses 1 to 8 were agreed to.
Council then resumed.
Third Reading of Bills
THE ATTORNEY GENERAL reported that the
BANKRUPTCY (AMENDMENT) BILL 1992
had passed through Committee with amendment and the
STAMP DUTY (AMENDMENT) BILL 1992
had passed through Committee without amendment. He moved the Third Reading of the Bills.
Question on the Third Reading of the Bills proposed, put and agreed to. Bills read the Third time and passed.
Member's motions
DEPUTY PRESIDENT: We again have two Member's motions for debate this afternoon. Members have agreed in accordance with recent practice to place a voluntary limit on the length of speeches.
PRIMARY AND SECONDARY EDUCATION
MR TIK CHI-YUEN moved the following motion:
"That in view of strong demand from various sectors of the community, this Council urges the Government, in formulating next year's Budget, to increase the provisions for primary and secondary education, so that there will be adequate resources in the coming year in order to raise the professional standard of teachers, to strengthen in-service training, to move towards the target of an all degree-holding teaching force, and furthermore, to improve the teaching environment, reduce the non-teaching work of teachers and improve the teacher/student ratio, so as to enhance the quality of primary and secondary education."
MR TIK CHI-YUEN (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, the motion on the quality of primary and secondary education I am moving today can be viewed as the second episode of the Legislative Council debate on basic education. When we look at the debate schedule, we will notice that there is in fact a third episode coming up. Last time, when Mr CHEUNG Man-kwong initiated a motion debate on the balanced development of tertiary and basic education, Members expressed a diverse range of views. Some
Members strongly urged the Government to scrap the policy of "reducing class number and enlarging class size". Some wanted a speedy implementation of the proposals
contained in the ECR Nos. 4 and 5. In fact, the difference of views only relates to how the resources should be used. In general, Members are of the opinion that additional resources should be allocated to basic education. After the debate, Mrs Rita FAN's amendment to Mr CHEUNG Man-kwong's motion was passed. Her amended motion reads, "Since education is of vital importance to the development of our economy and the advancement of the community, this Council urges the Government to conduct a comprehensive review on the balance between tertiary and basic education as well as their respective development. While expanding tertiary education, the Government should ensure that its quality is maintained; and the Government should at the same time allocate more resources to improve the quality of pre-primary, primary and
secondary education in order that convergence of different levels of education can be ensured." It is not difficult to realize that the spirit of the amended motion is to urge the Government to allocate additional funds to basic education. This however is no more than a statement of principle. Members were unable to agree on how basic education should be improved. Therefore, it is my hope today to come up with some important and concrete improvement proposals, for example, raising the professional standard of teachers and improving the teaching environment and so on. Besides, I hope today's debate will not be just empty talk. Therefore, my motion also urges the Government, after listening to the views expressed today, to allocate more funds and resources to primary and secondary education in the next fiscal year. The Government is also urged to implement various policies which aim at improving the quality of education. I would like to make it clear that we would not be happy with just a slight raise of funding to cover the inflation rate. This is not real growth. What we want are enough resources and actual implementation of various
meaningful policies. In general, my motion proposes concrete ways and requests to improve the quality of primary and secondary education, hoping to press the Government for additional education funding.
Mr Deputy President, in the preparation for today's motion, I have, for quite a number of times, discussed with my friends in the field of education, Members of this Council who are concerned about education policies and some government officials. These discussions have led me to realize that many problems exist in the primary and secondary education of today, for example, student suicides, the decline of teachers' morale, the lack of parents' participation and the inadequacy of school places in new towns and so on. I think these problems originate from the Government's emphasis on quantity rather than quality in the development of primary and secondary education. Although both Sir Edward YOUDE, the former Governor, and Lord WILSON, the present Governor, have expressed their intention of improving the quality of primary and
secondary education so as to live up to the people's expectations and satisfy the needs of the changing Hong Kong economy, it is really a pity that, up to now, words are never followed by actions. The Government has never reflected this intention and direction in its allocation of funds. What is worse, the resources for basic education seem to be shrinking. An obvious example is of course the policy of
"reducing class number and enlarging class size".
In recent years, Hong Kong education expenditure has only constituted 3% of its gross domestic product (GDP). This percentage is obviously very low when compared with the international standard. Let us compare the figures of 1987. Japan's education expenditure was 7.3% of its GDP and that of both the United States and the United Kingdom was over 4%. Even when we compare ourselves with some South East Asian countries, like South Korea and Singapore, we are giving much less to our education. If we stick to the 3% rule and tertiary education continues to use up more and more resources, our basic education will be getting less and less. In the 1992-93 fiscal year, the growth of the level of funding to tertiary education is 38% while that to basic education is only as little as 1.5%. If education services are to be further improved, additional resources are something we cannot do without.
Let us look at the unit costs of primary and secondary education. Calculating the unit costs of aided secondary education at the price of 1991-92, they are as follows:-
91-92 92-93 91-92 92-93 93-94 94-95
$13,610 $13,550 $13,610 $13,550 $13,550 $13,458 $13,458 $13,458 $13,336 $13,336
And calculating the unit costs of aided primary education, they are:- 91-92 92-93 91-92 92-93 93-94 94-95
$8,974 $8,955 $8,974 $8,955 $8,922 $8,887
From the above figures, we can see that the unit costs are on a downward trend from 91-92 onwards. What is reflected here is that the funding for primary and secondary education is shrinking.
From the analysis of the above figures, we can conclude that the education
expenditure of Hong Kong is really at a low and backward level. Should the overall education expenditure fail to rise sharply, basic and tertiary education will be competing for funds. This will either result in the shrinking of the development of tertiary education or further damage to the quality of basic education. I believe these are not what we would like to see.
In recent months, lots of education organizations have urged the Government to allocate additional funds to basic education. The Government has been asked to allocate hundreds of millions of dollars to basic education and to implement the proposals contained in the ECR Nos. 3 and 4. Meeting Point do not agree to the policy of transferring resources from tertiary education to basic education. This policy assumes that there is an uneven distribution of education resources and there is a need for redistribution, making it necessary for the Government to cut the student number targets of tertiary education so as to satisfy the requests for additional funds to be allocated to basic education. Meting Point think that the development of tertiary education is a must if we want to be in line with our social needs and our economical development. Of course, we have to ensure that resources for tertiary education are well spent and must minimize waste. We think that the present education expenditure is "inadequate" rather than "unevenly distributed". Given the inadequacy, we would like to have additional resources rather than cutting of expenditure on tertiary education. Meeting Point of course support the education sector in fighting for their goal. Meeting Point object to the Government's use of administrative means to cut the student number targets of tertiary education institutions without explaining to the public. I will follow up on this later on.
Mr Deputy President, primary and secondary education in Hong Kong today is faced Mr Deputy President, primary and secondary education in Hong Kong today is faced with numerous problems and difficulties. I would like to put forward the following proposals, which aim at improving two aspects of basic education, for the Administration's consideration. These two aspects are considered by the public as important and in need of urgent attention.
(1) Enhancing the professional standard of teachers (1) Enhancing the professional standard of teachers
As we all know, the role of teachers in education is very important. Today, our community is changing very rapidly. Students' problems, which need to be handled by teachers, are becoming more and more complicated. That is why we need to strengthen teachers' in-service training so as to help them deal with youth's problems and students' suicides, and co-ordinate with the implementation of new policies,
namely, "School Management Initiative" and "School Objective Assessment". In addition, we propose that we should move towards the goal of an all-graduate profession. With the expansion of tertiary education, the standard of the students entering the Colleges of Education will inevitably be lowered. We worry that this would affect the quality of our primary and secondary education. In order to improve the quality of education, we must aim at filling all teaching posts with graduates. This will raise the competitiveness of the teaching profession. This is a long term goal. We will put forward our proposals concerning actual implementation later when the ECR No. 5 is published. But in any case, this policy must be implemented next year. Concerning the enhancement of teachers' professional standard, Mr Fred LI of Meeting Point will give more detailed proposals later today.
(2) Improving teaching environment (2) Improving teaching environment
Nowadays, the workload of primary and secondary school teachers is very heavy. They are required to perform a large amount of non-teaching duties. This is not only a waste of manpower, but will also dampen teachers' enthusiasm and affect their performance in teaching. The Government should allocate additional funds to our schools so that more clerical officers can be employed and more items of equipment, like computers, can be purchased. The administrative policies should also be simplified. All these can assist teachers in dealing with non-teaching duties. Furthermore, to reduce the teacher to student ratios is also essential. At present, the teacher to student ratio of primary education is 1:27 and that of secondary education is 1:22. When compared with the ratios of Europe, the United States, China, Thailand and Singapore, the ratios of Hong Kong are the highest. With the decrease in population, the primary and secondary student population will inevitably decline. Therefore, there will be room for the Government to gradually reduce the teacher to student ratios. Mr WONG Wai-yin of Meeting Point will have more to say on the improvement of the teaching environment later on.
Mr Deputy President, some of my friends told me that the proposals I have raised so far are already included in the ECR No. 5 which will be published shortly. I think that this coincidence is natural and reasonable. The Education Commission has examined the education problems before making recommendations. And I have also consulted widely the field of education before reaching the conclusions and the proposals. This shows that the problems identified are matters of concern to the public. The Government really has to listen to our views and implement necessary measures to improve the situation. We really cannot wait any longer.
I urge the Government to look at the ECR No. 5 with sincerity and allocate I urge the Government to look at the ECR No. 5 with sincerity and allocate appropriate funding to implement urgently the acceptable recommendations contained in the report. In the past, the Education Commission reports have put forward many recommendations. However, the Government always used lack of resources as an excuse to delay their implementation. The Government has never set up a timetable to have these recommendations implemented. The public has begun to feel that there are policies but no commitment. I think this is the attitude of an irresponsible government. I hope to see the Government's commitment to improving the quality of our basic education in the reply of the Secretary for Education and Manpower.
Mr Deputy President, with these remarks, I beg to move.
Question on the motion proposed.
DEPUTY PRESIDENT: In the absence of Mrs Rita FAN, are you able to speak, Mr SZETO Wah?
MR SZETO WAH (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, the Financial Secretary told the Legislative Council last week that the Government would withdraw its proposal to raise rates because it has had an unexpected windfall of approximately $6 billion.
A rates rise having been scrapped, there will still be $5 billion left.
Some people say that the Government's withdrawal of its proposal to raise rates Some people say that the Government's withdrawal of its proposal to raise rates was not really because of that unexpected windfall. It was in fact because the Government felt that the Legislative Council would probably vote down the proposal. To withdraw the proposal under the excuse of an unexpected windfall would be much better than having it voted down. Is this piece of criticism sound?
How to spend the $5 billion left is a challenge. There is not another more difficult situation which the Government has to save itself from. If the Government simply silently put the money into its coffers instead of using it to alleviate the burden on the public or improve social services, the above criticism would then become justified and well founded.
If that unexpected sum of money is not used to alleviate the burden on the public or improve social services, it will become ill-gotten money.
The motion before us today urges the Government to allocate addition funding to primary and secondary education in the Budget of the next fiscal year, so as to improve the quality of our basic education. In fact, we need not wait till the next financial year. We can improve the quality of basic education by simply allocating the
interests earned on the $5 billion as additional funding for our primary and secondary education. Therefore, to ask the Government for additional funding in the coming financial year is already a very generous request. The Government really has no reason to refuse.
Perhaps, the Government by employing the pretext that implementation of the current Budget is still clouded with uncertainties, will refuse to so commit itself in the next Budget. In fact, the situation is not all that murky. At least, there is no fear of a deficit. The windfall from the last financial year already more or less equals the estimated Budget surplus of this year. In other words, the estimated surplus of the current fiscal year is already in the hands of the Government. What is more, the Government has in the past always ended up surprisingly with a larger surplus than was estimated. In this connection, Hong Kong has always rated first in the world. With so many months to go before the close of the current fiscal year, the Government has already got the surplus in hand. When the fiscal year closes, the Government will perhaps get a lot more than has been estimated. So, the Government should now be able to show its commitment for the coming fiscal year.
"Ten years to see a tree grow; a hundred years to see a man grow". Trees need water to grow. Man needs money to get trained. A desert without water is only barren land. To cut the expenditure on primary and secondary education will certainly endanger the foundation of education of Hong Kong; no matter how grand and beautiful the buildings on the foundation platform are, they will be shaken and will collapse in any minute. British sovereignty over Hong Kong will last no more than five years from now. A hundred years are no where to be found. But I hope that the Administration, in its remaining five years' rule, will still be willing to see this territory full of beautiful trees and talented people.
Today, we have another motion, which is about the "rose garden." I once said, "There must be roses in order to have a rose garden." People are our roses. If we have only the new airport in our mind and neglect education, especially basic
education, Hong Kong will only become a rose garden without roses, notwithstanding the completion of the airport.
Mr Deputy President, with these remarks, I support the motion.
MRS RITA FAN (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, first of all, I would like to declare my interest. I am the Chairman of the Education Commission. In these few weeks, the Commission has been very busy writing its Report No. 5. It is hoped that the report can be published in June for public consultation. Whether the recommendations contained in the report can become policies will depend on the consultation results. Whether policies can be fully implemented will depend on resource allocation. Views of the Legislative Council on these two aspects will have certain effects on the outcome.
Mr TIK Chi-yuen has obviously put in a lot of thought on the wording of today's motion. All that is urged for in the motion, like raising the professional standard of teachers, strengthening in-service training, and moving towards the target of a degree-holding teaching force and so on, will be covered in detail in the
recommendations of the ECR No. 5. The direction of these recommendations has also been reported by the press. I do not wish to go into the details of the recommendations which, I think, should wait till the publication of the report. Nevertheless, I welcome Mr TIK's motion since the timing is good. The motion coincidentally comes before the publication of the ECR No. 5 and can be seen as a "prelude". I must thank Mr TIK for giving us a "trailer" of the motion debate on the ECR No. 5 scheduled for 15 July 1992.
If the present motion is passed, it will give the Government a clear message, that is, even if the recommendations contained in the ERC No. 5 will require as much as $1 billion to implement, this Council is urging the Government to clearly commit itself to improving the quality of education and not to delay the implementation as long as the recommendations are in the same direction with today's motion and are supported by the public during the consultation period. Therefore, I support he motion and hope that honourable colleagues will also support it.
At a time when the Government is trying hard to control public expenditure, I At a time when the Government is trying hard to control public expenditure, I am making so bold as to ask for huge additional funding for education in seeming disregard of the inflation of public expenditure. However, whether it is correct
to treat education expenditure as "recurrent expenditure" deserves our discussion and review. I think that education is in fact a kind of "investment". Suitable investment can bring about considerable profits. If we are too mean in our "investment" and sacrifice quality for quantity, our next generation will be left in the lurch. How are we going to achieve the economic prosperity expected? I hope the officials administering finance, when planning the allocation of education funding, can adjust a little their concept and see education expenditure as a kind of "investment" instead of "expenditure". I believe this would bring about substantial returns.
All the improvement measures urged for in the motion require long-term commitment in terms of resources. This is not something which can be done overnight. Therefore, the requests stated in the motion should not be limited to the coming fiscal year. They should in fact be extended to five, 10 or even 15 years ahead. I guess Mr TIK, besides asking for prompt action on the part of the Government, is also hoping that the Government can make long-term commitment to education in Hong Kong. I hope this can be confirmed.
The resources allocated to primary and secondary education are to be increased. However, simply a slight increase to cover the inflation rate and economic growth rate (approximately 5%) is never enough to implement various plans to attract good quality people to the teaching profession and make good teachers stay in the
profession. It is also not enough just to raise the standard of teachers. The reason is that 90% of the recurrent expenditure of primary and secondary schools are spent on the emoluments of teaching and administrative staff. Salaries rise with the price index but we cannot afford to have the number of staff cut. The inflation rate further erodes the funding for basic education. The increase in funding is in fact less than the economic growth. To continue with the improvements already made, like the
endorsed recommendations of the ECR No. 4, we need resources. Even if tertiary education will enter a period of consolidation after the year 1995, recurrent expenditure will still need to be increased. Although the rate of increase will not be as great as that in the years between 1992 and 1995, allocation of additional resources will be inevitable. After deductions, we will only have very little left for raising the standard of teachers or for implementing other related recommendations. In order to substantively improve the quality of primary and secondary education, we need additional funding from the central government.
Therefore, I suggest that the Government set a target -- "18% of public sector expenditure to be spent on education". The estimated education expenditure for the
fiscal year 1993-94 accounts for 16.8% of public sector expenditure. I am not asking the Government to increase the education expenditure to 18% immediately in the next fiscal year. In fact, what I am hoping for is a gradual increase with 18% as our target. Only with this kind of well-planned and gradual increase can we guarantee the implementation of the policies of enhancing the quality of primary and secondary education.
The improvement measures urged for in the motion are only part of the recommendations of the ECR No. 5. Besides making recommendations on the quality of teachers of pre-school, primary and secondary education, the report has also covered special education, which needs to be examined and improved, and the gradual development of tertiary education, which cannot afford to be neglected. I hope the Government will accept my suggestion so as to avoid important policies being left unattended owing to the lack of resources. Assuming that public sector expenditure constitutes 20% of the GDP, the education expenditure should occupy 3.6% of the GDP. When compared with economically developed countries, this percentage is not high at all. But to students, parents and education workers of Hong Kong, this would be an encouraging measure.
MR CHEUNG MAN-KWONG (in Cantonese): Mr Deputy President, as the representative of the education sector, I fully support the motion moved by Mr TIK Chi-yuen on enhancing the quality of primary and secondary education.
For a very long time, the Government has neglected the importance of investing in education in Hong Kong, tertiary as well as basic education. Generally, the education expenditure of Hong Kong only amounts to around 3% of its Gross Domestic Product (GDP). When compared with European countries, the United States, Japan and others, Hong Kong surely has much to catch up. Even if we compare ourselves with South East Asian countries, our education expenditure is still on the low side. China is the only country behind Hong Kong. To a nation which has always valued education and is so proud of its traditional civilization and culture, this is not only an irony, but also a tragedy.
With China, there is not much we can do. We can only support the recent Project Hope making it possible for the poor children of China to learn to read and write. But with Hong Kong, we are duty-bound to maintain good quality education and to expedite our economic development as well as social progress. This is something we
should do and can do. Last year, our surplus rose from the estimated $1.3 billion to $14 billion and eventually notched $22 billion, which was 17 times the estimated figure. However, there was no increase in the expenditure allocated to basic education. There was, therefore, not adequate resources to redress the longstanding weaknesses in our basic education. Furthermore, the Government even wanted to have the class number cut and the class size enlarged, undermining the interests of the students. The Hong Kong people are deeply disappointed with a government, which is not the least committed to education or to the community.
Under such circumstances, the Legislative Council is responsible for urging the Government to reverse the trend of neglecting to invest in education. The Government must allocate additional funds to basic education in the next Budget. First, the 3% rule regarding the percentage of education expenditure in the GDP must be scrapped. The percentage should be increased gradually to around 5% so as to be in line with that of the developed countries. Only with an overall increase in education
expenditure can tertiary and basic education develop at the same pace and complement each other. The community of Hong Kong will eventually benefit from the increase.
Since the allocations to tertiary education for the last three years have already amounted to $18.2 billion, the additional education funding in the next fiscal year should be spent on basic education. In fact, the interests of the primary and secondary pupils have long been sacrificed and the expenditure on basic education has tightened in order to maintain a low level of 3% of GDP. For example, the cost of a primary and secondary place is only around $10,000 per annum while that of a tertiary place amounts to $100,000. The differential is really great. From this, we can also see how pitiable the situation of our primary and secondary pupils is.
To adopt a bisessional system in primary schools and a floating class system in secondary schools, to reduce the teacher to class ratios, to enlarge the class size and to make teachers carry out more and more non-teaching duties which should be the job of clerical staff or school attendants are all means to maintain a low level of education expenditure. Although such means has successfully kept the expenses down, it has laid a very heavy burden on teachers and dealt a blow to their morale. That is why there has been a brain drain within the profession. This policy of keeping the expenses down has in fact killed the goose that lays the golden eggs. The loss outweighs the gain.
If we compare most of the primary and secondary pupils with those studying in If we compare most of the primary and secondary pupils with those studying in