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Q-And what control was there over the shroff?
A. Any money he received he paid to the cashier, Mr. Carvalho. occupied the same office.
Mr. Thurburn. That is to say he gave him an account?
A. And paid in the money.
Mr. Bird. He received the hard cash?
The two
A.—Yes, as far as I remember, and it was put in the safe for the day and paid into the bank at the end of the day.
The Chairman.-Do you know who used to sign the receipts for Crown Rent? A.-I should say Mr. Alves would sign the receipts. It would not be my duty because I was absent during the greater part of the day.
Q-Supposing it was Alves who signed the receipts, were you satisfied that the checks were sufficient to prevent defalcations of money?
A.--The checks I regarded as the auditing.
Mr. Thurburn.-You looked upon the Auditor as the check?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you read the "Financial Instructions" when they came out?
A. In 1891 there were financial instructions.
The Chairman.-You looked upon the Auditor as responsible for the checks? Are there any instructions to that effect?
A.-Not as far as I am aware.
Q-Then why did you rely on the Auditor?
A. That is the only practicable check.
Q. Did you ever make any examinations, any surprise visits?
A.--I constantly did so.
Q.-These "Financial Instructions" lay down that the audit will not relieve the responsibility of the Treasurer.
A. Those instructions, I think, have been issued since there was a permanent Treasurer, and that makes the whole of the difference.
Q-I want to know whether there were any instructions in your time respecting the duties of the Treasurer and Auditor.
A.-There were departmental instructions, that is to say, financial instructions issued from home.
Mr. Thurburn.-Those instructions did not lay down that the Treasurer was to have separate and independent checks of his own?
A.-I am not prepared to say that. They were voluminous instructions but I should imagine that the intention at home was that the Treasurer should keep an independent check.
The Chairman. Supposing money was received by Alves direct, that is to say members of the public came in and paid money direct to Alves, what check would you have upon Alves?
A.-The shroff only.
Q. When money was taken direct to Alves?
A.-Really only the auditing.
Q.Did you examine the Rent Roll from time to time?
A.-I was constantly examining the Rent Roll.
Q.--To see that it was properly kept?
A.-Yes.