THE HONGKONG GOVERNMENT GAZETTE, 23RD NOVEMBER, 1878. 571
another serious objection, as there are days very often in this harbour when it would be impossible to communicate, and advantage might be taken by the prisoners of that. There was also a further objection, the necessity of a Gaol of some sort on this side and in consequence a double staff of officials. He remained of the opinion he expressed at the last meeting in favour of the separate system, but he was not prepared to advocate its being carried out at the expense entailed by the first three schemes. He hoped that it would be decided to adopt the present Gaol to the separate system and that by taking in the Magistracy, a sufficient number of separate cells would be provided, and with reference to the remark in the Secretary of State's despatch that they could not have in the adaptation of the present building sufficiently large yards for exercise, he was credibly informed that the present lower yard in the Gaol could be extended so as to give quite sufficient space; in the separate system the yards were, he was given to understand, only required for exercise, not for work, as they were at present. He did not think there was any necessity for providing accommodation for a larger number of prisoners than that in Gaol at present, as if the separate system was to be a success, crime should diminish and the number of cells obtainable by altering and adding to the present Gaol, as proposed by scheme 4, would be found amply sufficient; if, on the other hand, the separate system did not prove a success, some other plan would have to be adopted for suppressing crime, and there would be the satisfaction that not a very large sum of money had been expended. He was inclined to support the fourth scheme.
The ACTING CHIEF JUSTICE thought that supposing the Colony found itself obliged to build a new Gaol and had in hand an abundance of money, it would be a good thing to place it on Stone Cutter's Island. But the subjects now under consideration were the three schemes of re-construction. As to the high level scheme, the objection was that it would cost far more than the estimate, and seriously injure property in Caine Road. The low level project was not to be thought of owing to the great expense. It would be a great pity to remove the Police Barracks, now so conveniently situated in the centre of the town, for which at great cost a new site must be obtained. The third, the re-construction scheme, was the best, the Gaol might be made to provide separate cells for 500 prisoners. But ought such an expense to be incurred before we have tried the effect of more severe discipline and other forms of punishment? A punishment, the most severe and deterrent known-the dark cell-had never been tried. Flogging had never yet by law been made the punishment for returning from deportation, except for a very short time, by Ordinance 7 of 1870. With such important works on hand as the new Hospital, the Praya Wall, not to mention the Central School as to which His Excellency had addressed some observations, he thought that we were not justified in incurring the great expense of these schemes until we had tried the means we have at hand to check crime and induce deported prisoners to stay at home.
The ACTING COLONIAL SECRETARY said no larger guard would be required for a Gaol on Stone Cutter's Island, and communication would not be required oftener than twice a day.
His EXCELLENCY said the discussion had been a most valuable one, and the Chief Justice had thrown out a hint about the dark cell on which he should at once consult Mr. TONNOCHY, the able Superintendent of the Gaol. The dark cell was in all prisons very deterrent and would especially be so among Chinese. Adverting to the figures quoted by the Honourable member (Mr. KESWICK), that at this date, 18th November, 1878, there were 519 prisoners, Europeans and Chinese, in Gaol, he asked him to look at the returns for which he had moved, and which were on the table 'ch showed that at the corresponding date immediately preceding his (the Governor's) arrival, that is on the 18th November, 1876, there were 554 prisoners in Gaol. To-day, the number of Chinese prisoners was 479; two years ago, it was 510; and it was instructive to remember that two years ago, the practice of trying to keep down the numbers in Gaol by conditional pardons, and sending out prisoners branded was in full operation, and that floggings and deportations were at a maximum. It was on every ground satisfactory to note that the number of prisoners to-day was less than the number two years ago. Com- menting on a remark made by the Chief Justice, that flogging for returning from deportation was only in force a very short time, His Excellency said there had been illegal flogging. When a deported man came back, the Governor (Sir RICHARD MACDONNELL) wrote “Mr. DOUGLAS knows what to do with this man," and thereupon the man was flogged. It was to these illegal floggings Sir JOHN SMALE and Sir JULIAN PAUNCEFOTE called attention. 383 men had been so flogged. On the subject of conditional pardons, His Excellency said he looked forward to obtaining the unanimous assent of the Council to making every prisoner serve out two-thirds of his time. The returns asked for by Mr. Lowcock he would have much pleasure in supplying without a motion. He also looked forward to making the prison here remunerative. In conclusion, he had to thank Honourable members for their advice. He had received a great deal of sound advice which he would consider, and whatever recommendations he might make to Sir MICHAEL HICKS-BEACH would be made only after
that consideration.
After some questions as to details had been answered by Mr. PRICE,
His EXCELLENCY said that on the notice that had been sent round, in addition to the Gaol extension, there were two other subjects, but at that late hour these could not be gone into. One was public flogging, and on that he might say he had been requested by Lord CARNARVON to take the opinion of the gentlemen connected with the administration of justice. They had all reported with one exception, who by some mistake had not received the circular, that they thought public flogging might with safety be abolished. With respect to the other question, the mode of flogging in the Gaol, he would lay before the Council the report of the Commission consisting of the Deputy Inspector-General of Hospitals, Dr. WELLS, and Dr. O'BRIEN, who were appointed early in the year to consider this subject. His Excellency briefly stated the nature of the contents of the report. In consequence of the report, he said, Dr. AYRES had got a lighter rattan for use in the Gaol.
The ACTING CHIEF JUSTICE suggested that the debate might be adjourned.
His EXCELLENCY said that Honourable members would receive the papers he had referred to and when they had had time to consider them they would meet again and discuss, if they desired to do so, the reports he had referred to on Public Flogging, and the mode of flogging in the Gaol.
The Council was then adjourned sine die.