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[6 DECEMBER 1993]
former adviser of the British Government have warned hem on the issue right the way through. I should be interested to hear the Minister's views on the recent article on this subject by Sir Percy Cradock. The Government are pursuing a line about which people have warned them, but they refuse to accept the possibility that what they see as a legitimate negotiation could be and is seen by the Chinese as a classic example of British 19th century arrogance which fails to recognise the realities of who will rule Hong Kong in 1997.
Lord Henley: My Lords, I have seen Sir Percy's article. I regret that I have not yet had time to read it, but officials have. Sir Percy is a distinguished former public servant and he is obviously entitled to his views. But we do not believe that it is right to say that there has been any change of policy on Hong Kong. We remain committed to the approach as set out in the Joint Declaration and we need to get on with urgent legislation. There is no reason why that should damage wider co-operation, which I believe is self-evidently in the interests of Britain, China and Hong Kong. That is why we say that the discussions will continue.
Lord Bottomley: My Lords, have the Government considered the wise words uttered today by Sir Percy Cradock? They are reported in the press and, as we all know, Sir Percy was our ambassador in China at the time of the Joint Declaration. Have the Government considered the economic consequences of not carrying China with us? The recent cancellation of an order submitted for an underground railway by GEC may be a warning of what is to come.
If we act unilaterally, is there not a danger that the Chinese will do the same? The Chinese have already indicated that they will not recognise the agreement and will introduce a new legislature after the transfer of power. Do we really wish to end the last days of British responsibility in chaos and disorder? I hope that the Government will do everything possible to secure an agreement with China.
Lord Henley: My Lords, of course the noble Lord is right to underline the concerns of business. But, as I think the noble Lord, Lord Bonham-Carter, made clear, and I agree with him, business is not the only concern that we should underline on these occasions. There is the concern of the people of Hong Kong which must be borne in mind. I responded to the question which the noble Lord, Lord Marsh, asked about Sir Percy Cradock's article in whatever newspaper it was.
As regards any damage to the Hong Kong economy and the way of life of the Hong Kong people, what we are looking for is stability. We believe that our way forward is the right way to go and it is important that democratic processes should start. As I made clear in the Statement from the Foreign Secretary, for those reasons it is important that that process should continue as early as possible. We believe that what we are proposing does not go beyond the Basic Law which the Chinese agreed. We therefore believe that it would not be in the interests
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of the Chinese. post-1997, as I said in my response to the noble Baroness, Lady Blackstone, to change what we had already brought in at an earlier stage.
Viscount Slim: My Lords, is it not a fact that politicians generally speak politics? As the noble Lord, Lord Bottomley, said, there is a great need to consider the commercial angle. As other noble Lords have already quietly advised the Government, that is definitely being forgotten. We talk of Hong Kong, but it is the British business in China that will be paramount in the future to the nation. China has to be the largest market for Great Britain in the next 80 to 100 years. It is surely the duty of the Government to get the matter straightened out. So far, as I see it, the Statement merely makes excuses for not obtaining a conclusion to the conversations and talks.
I believe that it is up to Her Majesty's Government, at the right moment and in the right place, to give a little, to make certain that we get agreement before we find that British business in Hong Kong and China is completely ruined.
Lord Henley: My Lords, I do not accept the remarks of the noble Viscount about making excuses. Obviously our commercial interests with China are very important. Trade with China is growing. The balance of trade is in China's favour, and we would wish to maintain any close commercial relations. We do not believe that, with the trade growing, and particularly since it is growing in China's favour, any disagreements over Hong Kong which we believe can be resolved should necessarily spill over into any broader bilateral relationship, whether in trade or other matters.
Lord Mackie of Benshie: My Lords, I wish to ask the Minister a simple question. I thought that my noble friend Lord Bonham-Carter made an excellent point about world opinion. He asked an important question: is the United States—a much more important country than ourselves—at one with the Government's policy?
Lord Henley: My Lords, I can certainly confirm that the United States is fully in support of our policy on Hong Kong.
Lord Stewartby: My Lords, can my noble friend say whether, during the long series of exchanges with the Chinese Government, we have been able to gain a clear understanding as to why they have objected to a number of the proposals which have been put forward? Will he be good enough to comment on an impression which I gained from a visit to China last month? I met a number of people, both in government and out of it, and my impression was that there is in China an absolute determination that Hong Kong should remain a very successful and prosperous commercial centre. However, there was also a considerable nervousness that it might provide a base from which political agitation could be developed to undermine the government itself in China. I should be grateful if my noble friend could comment on that.
Lord Henley: My Lords, I would rather not speculate on exactly why there is intransigence on these matters from the Chinese. Obviously it is a matter for
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