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[Mr. Hurd]
Hong Kong
6 DECEMBER 1993
members of the LegCo appointed by the Governor should disappear altogether. Whose scheme is that? That is in the Basic Law.
We are not talking about a difference of principle; we are talking about the way in which to move towards implementing the principles in the Chinese Basic Law.
Mr. David Howell (Guildford): Does my right hon. Friend agree that the erosion of the development of a trustworthy system of democracy in Hong Kong will also erode the whole basis of law-including law affecting commerce and business-on which Hong Kong's prosperity has been built, and will continue to be built? Will not that be greatly to the disadvantage of the business community, and, indeed, that of Beijing?
Does my right hon. Friend accept that there is no suggestion in any of the evidence that we have been able to muster in the Select Committee on Foreign Affairs- evidence from independent and expert witnesses-that any of Governor Patten's reform proposals have in any way violated the Joint Declaration, the Basic Law or the exchange of letters between himself and the Chinese Foreign Minister?
In the light of that, will my right hon. Friend accept that he has my full support in making every effort first to explain to Beijing-with the backing of many others in Asia-that it is vital in the long term for the reforms to proceed steadily, and secondly to ensure that everything possible is done to maintain friendly talks and arrangements with Beijing? It must be brought home to Beijing that its benefit, and that of Hong Kong, will be at stake if the talks break down completely, and obstruction replaces consultation and co-operation.
Mr. Hurd: I am grateful to my right hon. Friend. His Committee is carrying out a thorough investigation, and we look forward very much to its report. I am also grateful for the issue today of what I suppose is in part an interim report.
My right hon. Friend has put it exactly right. It is in the interests of China, Britain and, above all, Hong Kong for Hong Kong to retain its character—which, as all who visit it will know, is capitalist. Recently-in the past decade or so there has been an increasing and justified demand in Hong Kong for democratic institutions: that, too, is now part of its character. Mr. Deng Xiaoping-who has already been quoted-is, after all, the author of the concept of two systems in one country. It is in the interests of all concerned that that concept exists not as just a phrase, but as a reality.
Sir David Steel (Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale): Does the Foreign Secretary accept that the Governor, and indeed Her Majesty's Government, have been reasonable with the Government of China, almost to the point of being unreasonable with the people of Hong Kong? As one who knows China, does the right hon. Gentleman accept that it too has changed dramatically over the past decade? It is no longer a political or an economic monolith; the provinces have all developed in different ways.
What can the right hon. Gentleman do to reassure the Chinese that the same would be true of Hong Kong, and that the idea that it would be used as a base for undermining the system of government in Beijing is an entirely unreal fear?
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Does the Foreign Secretary also accept that, if we compromise too much on elections to the legislature, we shall undermine the very foundation of the rule of law in Hong Kong?
Mr. Hurd: I agree with those points. I think it wise for the Governor to continue to operate and to make proposals to the Legislative Council--which will make decisions accordingly-within the scope of the Chinese Basic Law. As the right hon. Gentleman says, China is changing very fast. No one can say quite how far those changes will go between now and midnight on 30 June 1997, and it is therefore right to maintain the line that we have been taking the principle of "two systems, one country”.
That implies that, if the Chinese wish to intend to continue on a communist line inside the People's Republic, that is a matter for them and not for Hong Kong-and equally that, within Chinese sovereignty, Hong Kong should be free to retain its own character.
Mr. Roger Sims (Chislehurst): Is it not the case that, although the holding of the elections is contained in the Sino-British agreement, the form in which they should be held is not detailed? That being the case, surely doing nothing is not an option. It is incumbent on the Government of Hong Kong to introduce some measures to explain how the elections shall be held. The Governor can hardly be accused of being precipitate, after waiting 12 months and engaging in 17 rounds of talks. Will my right hon. Friend assure him that he will have the support of many hon. Members in proceeding with his very modest proposals?
Mr. Hurd: I am grateful to my hon. Friend. I think that that is exactly right. We have not gone into some stampede, and certainly have not tried to bulldoze proposals through. The original proposals were modest and, as my right hon. Friend the Member for Guildford (Mr. Howell) said, were in line with the Basic Law, with the correspondence that I had with the Chinese in 1990 and with the Joint Declaration.
We have discussed them at great length with the Chinese Government, and hope to discuss them further concerning the main issues that are still in dispute. There comes a time when elections have to be held and, as the House knows, if they have to be held, electoral law must be passed.
Dr. Jeremy Bray (Motherwell, South): Will the Foreign Secretary agree that, after the Tiananmen square incident and the response of the people of Hong Kong and the rest of the world to those events, it was necessary to rebuild the confidence of the Hong Kong people in their future in China?
Does he agree that the October 1992 proposals were consistent with that, and that the subsequent developments and the improved atmosphere in China in its attitude to Hong Kong in comparison with even a year ago is such that we can look forward to a continuing, smooth transition? Does he agree that the Governor should have the support of all hon. Members in making the wishes of the people of Hong Kong paramount in the context of the debate on the Joint Declaration?
Mr. Hurd: I think that, over the next months, we shall have some bumping and grinding on that issue, such as we