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work unit basis where people work in one place for all their lives. That was I think a very useful discussion we had for two hours about how the system, the dossier system, works. I think that was a good indication to us that their officials are aware that the market reforms are going to mean other changes.
They are my opening remarks. That hasn't covered things that were all arranged, the things that we did of course, but if other members of the delegation, Mr. Mackellar, the deputy leader of the delegation, may wish to make some brief remarks, then we go to questions.
Mr MacKellar: I agree with everything that Chris has said. I wasn't on the first delegation, but I was in China first in 1973 and I have been back a number of times since then. And, certainly there's been marked change. But, one of the changes which has taken place since the first delegation last year concerns access to lawyers in the judicial system. The problem they have there of course is they don't have sufficient trained lawyers to handle all the cases but when we were in Shanghai yesterday, we found out that in fact there is a trial going on in three particular areas giving access of lawyers to charged criminals much earlier on in the progress than has previously been the case.
Senators Schacht: When they are arrested.
Mr MacKellar: When they are arrested and this is something of course we've been pushing as a human rights, the access of anybody arrested to legal representation. It hasn't been available before, it's just an indication of the sort of attitude which is being expressed by a number of the officials and also, of course, by the growing legal fraternity in China.
The other area, I think, which really does require constant attention is in the area of family planning, an enormous problem in a country the size of China. Obviously they have to do something very dramatic about controlling the population but there are aspects of the programme which I think need constant attention and we mentioned this in Chengdu. The methods of contraception, trialling of new contraceptive methods, the devices available, that sort of thing is an area where we, I think, should continue to focus attention so that the health and rights of the women in particular have to be more fully considered.
Senator Schacht: Senator Bourne is particularly involved in family planning, in general aid issues and she was there last year raising these issues and again this year.
Senator Vicki Bourne: Just on that family planning I agree with what Michael said. But there was one point that