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ILORD TREFGARNE.]
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[ LORDS ]
the 1984 agreement. However, the Hong Kong people were given an opportuny in express their views on the draft joint declaration. A thorough survey was carried out with independent monitors and it was the clear view of the great majority of Hong Kong people that the agreement was the best that could have been achieved at that time.
The noble and gallant Lord, Lord Bramall, suggested that China had ruled out beneficiaries of our scheme for jobs after 1997. The Chinese have said that a small number of top posts will be reserved for Chinese nationals after 1997. I believe they are thinking of a number around 50. That is tiny compared with the 50,000 beneficiaries of the scheme that we have announced.
As many of your Lordships have pointed out this afternoon, confidence in Hong Kong is still at a low ebb. It cannot be rebuilt overnight. We do not underestimate the difficulties involved, but I can give a firm assurance that Britain will defend and promote Hong Kong's interests in any way we can. I do not imagine that we alone can lay the fears of Hong Kong wholly to rest, but Hong Kong and its people have the assurance of our good will, our support and our unstinting effort on their behalf. We are determined to do all we can to ensure that the final chapter in our long adminstration of Hong Kong is an honourable one and that our last substantial colony passes succesfully through the remaining eight years of British rule.
8.2 p.m.
Lord Bonham-Carter: My Lords, I shall not keep your Lordships long following a constructive debate which, broadly speaking, has revealed a like-minded approach among your Lordships to the problems confronting Hong Kong. I wish to thank all those noble Lords who have participated in the debate. I wish to say in particular how much I enjoyed and how much I learnt from the speech of the noble Lord, Lord Ennals, based on his experience in Vietnam. I found it a great pleasure for once in a while to be speaking in agreement with the noble Lord, Lord Wyatt of Weeford. That is an event which does not occur every day of the week.
The general view, it seems to me, has been one of encouragement to the Government to practise firmness and flexibility in their policies towards Hong Kong and to do everything they can to build up confidence there. There are only three points on which I disagree with what the noble Lord, Lord Trefgarne, said. On the question of a conference on the right of abode for British citizens in Hong Kong, I am not surprised that in the past there has not been much response to overtures from the Government to our friends. I do not think we can expect a response until we put our money on the table. Having put our money on the table, we shall be in a much better position to ask others to join us in that endeavour.
I am deeply sorry at the news that the United Nations conference on refugees has ended without agreement. One can only hope that the efforts to
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reach agreement involving the United States and Vietnam and the other parties will prove successful.
I Finally, was rather d'appointed by the nokt Lord's response iz the proposal, which was po DOLL supported, that the aid ban to Vietnam should be discontinued. He naturally said that to send money to Vietnam until one knew that money was being used in a proper way and until one knew that the government was one for which one could have respect was a dubious policy. However, I can only say that I would prefer to send money to such a government than to send back men. We are prepared to do the latter but I think we should also do the former. This has been, I hope, useful and timely debate. I shall not keep your Lordships any longer. I beg leave to withdraw the Motion.
Motion for Papers, by leave, withdrawn.
8.5 p.m.
Probation Service
The Earl of Longford rose to ask Her Majesty's Government what are their plans for the future of the probation service.
The noble Earl said: My Lords, in reflecting on the future of the probation service I pay a strong tribute to its remarkable achievements. I shall quote, with approval, a passage from the document entitled Probation: The Next Five Years. That document was published on behalf of the probation service in July 1987. It states:
"Over the last two decades the probation service has taken on major new tasks: statutory aftercare, including parole, probation work in prison and community service, as well as significant developments in its working approaches and methods”.
The probation service can point with pride to great achievements and developments in the period 1979 to 1986. While retaining the confidence of the courts in probation supervision and negotiating its high success rate, the service has achieved a 48 per cent. increase in probation orders. That has increased its proportionate use from 5.7 per cent. of all indictable cases in 1979 to 8.4 per cent. in 1985. Eighty per cent. of people who commence probation complete it successfully. The figures available to me give the House a hasty, superficial picture in statistical terms of the achievements of the probation service. They can really however only be measured in much more human terms.
I, like others here, have at all times supported proposals to expand the role of the probation service, even with its present scale of commitments. I, like others, have always urged that more resources should be made available to it. I have a weighty document published by the audit Commission. It is entitled The Probation Service: Promoting Value for Money. I shall not deal with that document today. It is concerned with the economics of probation. No doubt noble Lords will wish to consider the document on another occasion or possibly even tonight. However, I must deal with what I consider to be more fundamental aspects of the matter.
One would think that a bright future lay before the probation service. I believe that to be true. One