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Events in China:
[ 6 JUNE 1989 ]
imnately and practically that achieves the general ore quickly than the policies that are sometimes outlined?
aim
Lord Glenarthur: My Lords, I am afraid that I cannot give the noble Lord chapter and verse on precisely where we stand. That is obviously a most important matter. We shall be considering ways of trying to meet the concern that he raises.
Lord Fanshawe of Richmond: My Lords, will my noble friend again consider the point made by the noble and learned Lord, Lord Elwyn-Jones, about the United Nations? This is not just an internal matter that is taking place in Peking. There is a fall-out in a wider field. We have seen events taking place in Tibet in the past six months. This could also fall out in a major way on the position of Hong Kong which has been indicated by previous questions put to my noble friend this afternoon. I should be grateful if he could consult with his right honourable friend the Secretary of State to see whether or not further measures can be taken to follow up the point made by the noble and learned Lord, Lord Elwyn-Jones.
Lord Glenarthur: My Lords, I certainly shall do that. As I said, the Security Council normally addresses itself only to conflicts between states. Of course it is a fact that China is a permanent member of the Security Council and could exercise her veto against any attempt by that body to criticise her action. However, action in the United Nations human rights machinery is another matter. We shall certainly be considering that with our European Community colleagues.
4.58 p.m.
Water Bill
Consideration of amendments on Report resumed on Clause 1.
Lord Graham of Edmonton moved Amendment No. 3:
Page 2, line 15, at end insert ("and shall include persons representative of—
(i) conservation and environmental organisations; (ii) recreational and sports organisations;
(iii) consumers; and
(iv) local authorities)”.
The noble Lord said: My Lords, perhaps I may help the House by making a brief reference to page 2. Clause 1 sets out the composition and some of the functions of the National Rivers Authority. The House is well aware that the National Rivers Authority is crucial and important. We are inviting the Minister to say something helpful about how important it is. Subsection (2) states:
"The Authority shall consist of not less than eight nor more than fifteen members of whom-
(a) two shall be appointed by the Minister; and
(b) the others shall be appointed by the Secretary of State". We understand the significance of that.
Implications for Hong Kong
756
This amendment returns to the issues which were raised on Amendments Nos. 5 and 7 at the Committee stage. At that stage the Opposition. moved an amendment to establish a different representational structure for the National Rivers Authority. I remind the House that at that stage two objections were raised to the amendment. The first was that it would enable direct appointments to be made to the NRA, and that would slightly enlarge the size of the NRA from a maximum of 15 to a maximum of 18 persons. The noble Lord, Lord Renton, who is very assiduous in these matters said on 2nd May at col. 70 of the Official Report that it would be a possible alternative structure for appointees, but he voiced doubts about a body to which representatives were appointed directly by other organisations.
The amendment seeks to meet the detailed objections that were raised. We want to include persons representative of conservation and environmental organisations, recreational and sports organisations, consumers and local authorities. All those appointments would be made by the Secretary of State. We ask that he will be required to include persons representative of such groups; that is, suggested to him by or appointed by him from among the conservation groups, recreational and sports organisations, consumers and local authorities.
The purpose of the amendment is to seek a statement from the Government that they intend to have a proper range of persons on the National Rivers Authority board. The Government may point out that it is their intention to appoint from environmental interests and recreational groups anyway. But the Minister and his advisers will have noted from what has been said so far that it is not clear that there is an intention that the voice of the consumer and local authorities be heard on the board of the National Rivers Authority.
I am sure that the Minister will be pleased that we are mindful of the helpful attitude that the Government have displayed over representation on the regional rivers, fisheries and flood defence committees and that they have some independent standing within the NRA. The joint membership of such bodies will be incompatible with such a role. I hope that the Government will go further than they have to date in confirming their intention to ensure that the NRA reflects the main areas of interest and concern, even if the persons appointed to it are not direct representatives of any constituent interest. I am well aware that the Minister is likely to jib at what he might say would be reserved places on a body of this kind in the gift and the fiefdom of the interests that we have listed.
We want the Minister to tell us that there is a clear intention that the bodies, the groups or the areas of interest that we have specified are among those that he intends to see represented on the NRA. I beg to
move.
The Earl of Balfour: My Lords, I am concerned about this amendment. I feel that the National Rivers Authority's fundamental principle is to deal with water quality objectives and control of pollution. The conservation and environmental