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Hong Kong
[ 14 MARCH 1985]
morning I left Hong Kong. Therefore, I have done my best to get accurate facts. They are probably not as accurate as those of the noble Lord, Lord Avebury, who telephoned Hong Kong this morning, but I have sought to get my facts as accurate as possible. Perhaps I may interject that famous names, such as that of the noble Lord, Lord Beaumont of Whitley, sitting next to the noble Lord, Lord Avebury, are still remembered with affection and trust throughout that glorious part of the world. Having arrived only this morning, I am still suffering slightly from jet lag.
If I speak for a little longer than normal, I ask noble Lords to forgive me. It is great to have come straight from Hong Kong to your Lordships' House. the attention that was given in Hong Kong to your Lordships' Second Reading debate on this Bill impressed me immensely. The debate went out live throughout the night, because Hong Kong is eight hours ahead of us, and the people listened to much of the debate on Hong Kong radio. They knew a great deal about what your Lordships said, which impressed
me.
I return to acceptability, which I believe is the basis of confidence and the ground for confidence which makes this amendment either necessary of unneces- sary. The report of the Assessment Office states that most of the people of Hong Kong found the draft agreement acceptable. The overall picture from the media was one of general acceptance, as was that of the principal representative bodies, which have unequivocally placed their support on record; and the overwhelming majority of organisations have also done so. Most individuals have said that they also find it acceptable.
The two matters that I wish to raise are, first, the question of nationality and, secondly, the anxiety as to whether the agreement will stick. I spoke to many people from all walks of life. I was in Hong Kong for a straightforward preaching conference, preaching every day, but I was able to see many people in between. One very sensible and senior Chinese in Hong Kong put the situation to me rather clearly. He said, "The confidence we have in Mr. Deng and the confidence we have in Prime Minister Thatcher are such that so long as those two are running this show, this agreement will be all right". I thought that your Lordships' Committee would like to know that.
I now move from anything that approaches party politics to what I wish to say. I shall deal with the question of confidence. It was clear to me that the matter of the next generation worried the people in Hong Kong, and the noble Lord, Lord Avebury, was quite right in drawing attention to the children. One of those who sent in critical comments about the agreement said, "We do not care what happens to Hong Kong for our own sake. However, we worry for our children”.
The major concession which the noble Baroness, Lady Young, has just announced will do a great deal to settle the anxieties among a very wide variety of people. At least everyone will be treated fairly and equally if this amendment is not agreed. However, I fear that if it is agreed, it will be divisive in Hong Kong, even though theoretically it may make us in this Chamber believe that we are caring for minorities, which is right. This House has always had a great
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sensitivity and tenderness towards minorities. However, the amendment seems to differentiate sharply between the smallest minority, the Indians, and the general minority of the 2 million BOTCs.
Therefore, on balance, I believe that the major concession which the noble Baroness has announced today goes a long way towards quietening the anxieties that some people have. But I must underline that the general impression I received throughout the 10 to 12 days this month that I was in Hong Kong is that the agreement is sound; that it is the very best that could be produced; and that it has been received with much general acclaim. To go to the New Territories, to go to Sha-Tin, where 40 years ago, as a young chaplain at the surrender, I used to walk through the lanes and kick the stones away from the path, and to see this enormous new town, is to understand the confidence which the community has for the future of Hong Kong under the agreement which has now been discussed so fully.
Therefore, on balance, I think that this amendment should be resisted, but that words of encouragement and support to the people of Hong Kong should continue from this House because they are eager to know of our interest. I was rather naively asked the question: do you really care in the House of Lords? I replied that the number of noble Lords from all parties present during these debates, shows that we care very deeply and that we want to support our friends in Hong Kong very fully. To quote most of your Lordships who have been to Hong Kong, we say again to them, "Kung Hei Fat Choi".
Lord Avebury: The attendance this afternoon does indeed, I hope, demonstrate to the people of Hong Kong the interest and concern which we feel about the welfare of all the people of that territory. I would think that they are going to be immensely encouraged by what they read in Hansard in the Minister's excellent speech.
With great respect to the noble Lord, Lord Geddes, this Committee is not engaged in a game of whist, or whatever it is he plays in his club, from which he gets the language that he employed in his remarks to the Committee. This is not an adversarial exercise, as the right reverend Prelate has just pointed out. We are trying to do the best we can for the people of Hong Kong all working together for what I should have thought was a common objective. We are getting fairly near it, as I judge from the remarks of the noble Baroness the Minister.
The noble Baroness made not one but two major concessions, for which we are all extremely grateful, There is the important question of the second generation, which has been alluded to by the right reverend Prelate. I am glad that he has emphasised the concern he discovered when he was talking to people in Hong Kong itself, and about which I have only heard on the telephone. However, I think it is well understood among your Lordships that there has been some nervousness, to put it at its lowest, which I hope the noble Baroness will have allayed.
The other point the noble Baroness raised which was of enormous importance was when she said that in the very unlikely event, as we all accept it is, that something goes wrong with the agreement, any future