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Mr. Stanbrook]
Dependent Territories
15 APRIL 1983
Community which includes both Britain and Spain. Britain should not stand in the way of such a development if the Gibraltarians want it.
Sir Bernard Braine (Essex, South-East): My hon. Friend must be aware that the Gibraltarians have never asked for independence. On the contrary, by an overwhelming majority at a referendum, they declared themselves to be British and said that they wished to remain in association with Britain. To raise Gibraltar's independence is to muddy the waters of a delicate situation. All hon. Memers must want an imicable arrangement, in the end, between ourselves, our Gibraltarian friends and a democratic Spain.
Mr. Stanbrook: I am grateful to my hon. Friend for those comments. I still think that all the options should be considered and that we should not necessarily think that Britain or Gibraltar is confined to one option. There is much law on the subject and the interpretation of the treaty of Utrecht is a matter of argument between various parties. Of course, I agree with my hon. Friend that the people of Gibraltar do not want independence.
Sir Bernard Braine: Let us be quite clear about this -the treaty of Utrecht is perfectly clear. Britain has a long and honourable reputation of keeping its international obligations. Independence for Gibraltar does not arise, and the Gibraltarians have not raised it.
resources.
Mr. Stanbrook: I am grateful to my hon. Friend for speaking on behalf of the people of Gibraltar. As he says, I assume that Gibraltar will want to stay permanently under British sovereignty. In that event, she should receive the treatment which I have already advocated for our dependent territories as a whole-inclusion in the United Kingdom and islands, with a fair share of British We should make it absolutely clear to the Spaniards that Gibraltar is British and will remain so for all time. We should tell them that their childish tantrums only make them look ridiculous in the eyes of the world and that soverignty can never be discussed in any negotiations without the express wish of the Gibraltarians. The Spanish know that that will not be forthcoming. We should also tell them that we shall use that British sovereign territory as we please and that if they persist in their spiteful and petty campaign against Gibraltar we shall veto their application to join the EC.
I am sorry that the British ambassador in Madrid was not instructed to reject formally the recent message that recorded Spanish disapproval of the visit of HMS Invincible and other ships of the British fleet to Gibraltar. Spain has absolutely no claim to that British territory on any moral or legal ground. We should not make Spain's petulant conduct appear respectable by treating it seriously.
After the experience of the Falklands, the Spanish Government will need no reminder that we shall defend our people and territory by force if that is necessary. I hope, however, that the Government will bear it in mind that a bloodless invasion by thousands of peaceful spaniards flooding across the border might, one day, appear attractive to Spain. That might also call for prompt defensive measures. We are unwise to leave the Spaniards in any doubt about the strength of our determination to defend Gibraltar.
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Dependent Territories
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I wish to make only one point about the Falkland Islands. We are now doing there what we should have been doing long ago-rendering it secure from external aggression and strengthening and developing its economy. We shall, however, continue to be harassed at the United Nations and elsewhere about our sovereignty over the islands and the outlying dependencies. I suggest that we do not waste time in legal arguments about our sovereignty. Irrespective of whether we had a legal title to the islands in 1833, the fact remains that we have them now and they have been in our possession for 150 years. In international law, more than in any other, possession is nine points of the law.
Mr. Spearing: The hon. Gentleman should go back to 1888. When he speaks of our possession, is he thinking of overseas capitalism at its worst stage? Does he agree that if anyone owns the Falklands Islands it is the 1,800 people, at most, who have roots there? The islands do not belong to this country in the sense in which he expressed it.
Mr. Stanbrook: I was expressing our possession in the legal sense. Sovereignty belongs to the United Kingdom. It is not a part of English law, English common law, statute law or British law to vest sovereignty in people. Sovereignty belongs to the United Kingdom. That has been the case with regard to the Falklands virtually since time immemorial.
International law, whether as defined in 1833, 1888 or 1983 exists to be used to support or contradict an argument. It can be used for or against almost any proposition. That is what the legal profession especially international lawyers-is for. We should not set too much store by the opinions of experts, as it is always possible to find experts who will disagree with other experts. Victory in international relations goes not to the side which has the best lawyers but to that which has the stronger political will. Nor should we offer to refer the legality of our position to an international legal tribunal. Experience shows that such tribunals decide political issues more often by political considerations than by principles of international law, which are rarely universally agreed anyway.
I hope that, although the British Government may have offered to refer the legality of British sovereignty over the Falkland Islands to the jurisdiction of an international court, that offer will not be repeated, nor will any offer about the position of the Falkland Islands. One never makes such an offer without being sure that one has as many international legal experts on one's side as possible, but nevertheless we should not travel down that byway. Legal matters are comparatively irrelevant compared with the facts, which are that the Falkland Islands are a British dependent territory and have been so for at least 150 years.
I am sorry to say that elsewhere in our dependent territories the picture is one of neglect. If we spent one tenth of our overseas aid Vote on developing our dependent territories, we could revolutionise their economies. We do precious little beyond keeping them solvent. St. Helena may be a typical example. It is 1,700 miles from Cape Town and has a population of 5,147— so the excellent "Whitaker's" tells me-but it has few resources. It has no airfield, one fishing boat and precious little going on, despite the £2.5 million grant in aid of last year. Its youngsters emigrate to Ascension Island, 700
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