MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE EXPENDITURE COMMITTEE (DEFENCE AND
EXTERNAL AFFAIRS SUB-COMMITTEE)
TUESDAY 9 DECEMBER 1975
[In the Evidence asterisks indicate that part or all of a question or answer thereto or several consecutive questions and the answers thereto have not been reported. In the Appendices to the Evidence asterisks indicate that part or all of a paragraph has not been reported.]
Members present:
Colonel Sir Harwood Harrison
Mr Anthony Kershaw
Mr Bernard Conlan
Mr Geoffrey Finsberg
Mr John Roper Mr Neville Sandelson
Examination of Witnesses
Rt Hon WILLIAM RODGERS, MP, Minister of State for Defence examined, and Mr R J
ANDREW, Assistant Under Secretary of State (General Staff), Ministry of Defence, called in and examined.
Chairman
1. Minister of State, we are very grateful to you for coming this after- noon. We did not think we would be seeing you again so soon. Before we put any questions to you on Hong Kong, would you like to make a statement to us?
There was some idea that con- clusions might have been reached at the end of this month? -(Rt Hon William Rodgers.) Yes, I am very grateful to you. I think the understanding, if it is con- venient to you, is that myself and Mr Andrew should answer questions on the state of the negotiations on the new Defence Costs Agreement, and then if you have further questions on the disposition of our forces in Hong Kong I think they would be better put to Mr Andrew and others who will join him, at which point I hope it would be convenient for me to withdraw.
2. Yes? Perhaps it would be help- ful if I could explain the state the nego- tiations have reached. As I think you and the Sub-Committee will appreciate they are at a very delicate stage. We do still hope to announce the terms of an agreement before the end of the year, but if I give you a frank account of how far we have got I am sure you will appreciate that it must be con- fidential, and there must be no question of any publicity for it in the report of this Sub-Committee until after the Agree- ment is concluded and announced. a negotiating situation it would be diffi- cult for me to speak otherwise. Given that understanding I think it is best that I explain to the Committee as fully as
394416
In
possible how far we have got in the areas we have been covering, because I am sure that would be of great interest to you. Perhaps I could take you back to the Defence White Paper, where we said in paragraph 34 that it was our intention to re-negotiate the present cost sharing agreement on the basis of a somewhat reduced garrison, and that was, in effect, confirmation of what had been said by the Secretary of State in the House on 3rd December last year. In practice this discussion at official level had begun something over a year ago because the existing Defence Costs Agreement was coming to an end, and when I visited Hong Kong myself in October, much discussion had already taken place, and in one important respect decisions had almost been made. I had discussions with the Governor and the official mem- bers of his Executive Council in Hong Kong, and I met the unofficials as well, and I have had further discussions with the Governor in London. Those dis- cussions in London took place on Friday last, 5 December, and yesterday. I reported to
to your Sub-Committee on 11 November the situation as it then was, and in particular indicated the sort of garrison that we had agreed upon. I think I mentioned that the total cost of that garrison would be in the region of £42 million. In practice, and I may have mentioned this then, by the time I reached Hong Kong the only outstanding questions were, first, whether they would prefer to have a frigate rather than five patrol boats, and they decided in favour of the patrol boats, and, secondly, whether there was
A 9