1377
Indo-China:
[14 FEBRUARY 1979]
Therefore, I would appeal to my noble friend, whose heart is as warm as his head is cool--and no greater tribute could possibly be paid to him-to respond whole- heartedly to the pleas we are making to him today from all sides of the House. If we cannot admit these refugees from Indo-China into six figures, which is rather too much to expect perhaps, can we not hold out a helping hand to numbers of them running at least into five figures?
9.3 p.m.
Lord GEDDES: My Lords, I had not originally intended to speak in this ex- tremely important and topical debate, not because of any lack of interest in the subject but rather because of a fear, which others have been kind enough to tell me is illfounded, that in instancing the position of Hong Kong in this context I was in danger of over-exposure on one particular subject. On the other hand, as previously advised, I have lived in Hong Kong and in relative terms, there- fore, I have a certain firsthand knowledge of Hong Kong and its problems, not the least of which is its constant one of attempting to get not so much a quart, but rather a gallon, of population into a pint pot. Then this morning I was given the final push over the brink of participa- tion on receiving information that the noble Lord, Lord Rhodes, was not able to speak today, being snowed up in the depths of Lancashire. In no way would, or could, I presume to substitute for the noble Lord, but I did speak with him this morning and he has asked me to say how disappointed he is that he cannot be here today and is therefore unable to illustrate, inter alia, Hong Kong's position in the context of this very important debate, on which I, too, would like to add my thanks and congratulations to the noble Lord, Lord Elton, for bringing it to our attention.
A comment that was made in another place on the 15th December last, which compared the density of population of Earls Court to that of Hong Kong, as being in the ratio of 7 to 1. I am aware that the honourable Member concerned has been advised that, comparing like with like, his statistics were perhaps misleading. My purpose in raising this point is not at all to draw attention to that honourable Member's slip of the tongue, but rather to advise your Lordships that the ratio should have been not 7 to I but
Refugee Problem
1378
at least 1 to 8: in other words, Hong Kong has substantial areas where the population is over 800 to the acre, and in many parts of the older urban areas the density is as high as 2,000 to the acre. Hong Kong. as has been said by other noble Lords, is close to bursting at the seams and certainly, in this context, the United Kingdom Parliament in its broadest sense has, at the very least, a moral obligation to mitigate any exaggeration of that problem.
The problem of refugees is far from new. Even Moses had his problems with Pharaoh, but at least he had somewhere to go and he had control, directly or indirectly, of marine energy to help him get there! Today's refugees have no less need of both, but I suggest that the world has got complacent, perhaps to an extent through over-exposure of the always pitiful trails of people carrying all that they have, or all that they can, across the face of our television screens. The prob- lem of refugees is surely now an inter- national one, and if this debate achieves nothing else it will continue to bring that problem to people's attention.
Today, the Indo-Chinese refugees are a focus of attention, and here I would mention two particular facets. The first is the question of numbers. Just under a year ago, twin moves-the one physical and the other financial-by the Vietnamese authorities started an exodus wave, par- ticularly of ethnic Chinese, from that country. In the period April 1978 to January 1979, it is very roughly estimated that at least 400,000 ethnic Chinese and Vietnamese have fled from Vietnam. Noble Lords will, I am sure, appreciate the difficulties of obtaining accurate statistics, but to reinforce the comments made by the noble Lord, Lord Elton, the breakdown of that 400,000 is perhaps 150,000 to China; 140,000 to Thailand; 60,000 to Malaysia; 20,000 to Hong Kong; and in excess of 30,000 to the other South- East Asian. countries. Four hundred thousand is already a very large number but, as I think the noble Lord, Lord Elton, said, it is but the tip of a vast iceberg.
In an article in the Far Eastern Economic Review of 22nd December last year, it was reported that:
DE
Few of the Chinese who have fled so far come with more than one or two members of their immediate families, and almost all who were interviewed indicated that they expected their family members still in Vietnam to try to join them ".
A