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[8 NOVEMBER 1978]
not with the ballot box or the refinements of Western democracy. But the right to freedom from hunger is more important than the right to vote or the right to express a dissident opinion. It was suggested that any approaches that came from the United States or its allies on this matter would be seen in many countries as an interference in the internal affairs of States with which we are on good terms and it would be very damaging to our relations with those countries in question.
Particularly, attention was drawn to the fact that many leading nations in the Western World are recent colonial Powers and that any attempt, for instance, on Britain's part to put forward a strong line on human rights would be seen as an unwarranted interference and an attempt to restore European domination; it would be seen as an arrogant approach. Our motives were in fact deeply suspect in that regard.
It is interesting therefore to look back over this two-year period and see to what extent President Carter's initiative has succeeded or taken root. I cannot claim, nor would the most optimistic of your Lordships, that the past two years have been the most happy in the recent history of the Western World, or of the world as a whole. Crisis after crisis has descended upon us and it is only with the greatest difficulty that we have been able to scotch various fires which threatened to engulf us all. However, I venture to put forward the proposition that President Carter's ideas, although they have to some extent been diluted by the bitter experience of his years in office, have taken root and have made a serious impression upon us; that they will continue to flourish; that they have put a new dimension into our approach to foreign policy; and that they should continue to form an important part of our foreign policy in the Western World.
I was interested by the most illuminating speech by the noble Lord, Lord Roll of Ipsden, who made an extremely skilled and optimistic analysis of the situation in China. I was very encouraged by what he said and I hope that his optimism proves to be justified. The question which came to my mind, as I heard him speak and talk about his meetings in China, was whether or not he had found it convenient while in China to raise the question of Chinese individuals who manage to make
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their way across the Border into Hong Kong. Under an agreement between the People's Republic of China and the United Kingdom those people are forcibly returned to the People's Republic of China by the British authorities. I understand that such an agreement exists. I was couraged by what the noble Lord said, to think that under the new conditions that prevail in China, it might be possible for the Government at some appropriate time to raise this question and make clear the point that traditionally in territories under British administration we grant asylum to bona fide refugees. It would be up to the Government to try and find an appro- priate occasion to raise this matter, but it would be very good if such an occasion could be found.
It is, after all, very dangerous to condone any serious violation of human rights for too long. I can remember speaking in a debate in your Lordships House in 1969 on the dictatorship in Greece. I am bound to say that most of the speakers spoke up in favour of a dictatorship in Greece. Those who mentioned the serious violations of human rights in that country were in a small minority, and the people of Greece have not forgiven us for the fact that the opposition to that dictator- ship, and to the serious crimes that took place and were committed by that junta, was so seldom upheld by leading figures in the Western World.
In the past year or two such an attitude would probably not have been held, because the approach to human rights is much more clearly perceived than it was even as recently as 1969. The people have come to the conclusion-and this is why I am hoping that my speech will be seen as an optimistic one-that these matters are important, that they should form part of our approach to foreign policy, not only for moral reasons but because they can cause our nation severe political embarrassment. I wonder, for instance, whether we in the Western World may perhaps in the next few days find ourselves severely embarrassed by the fact that we did not protest sufficiently strongly against the excesses of Savak, the security police of Iran. I read that the chief of the Iranian secret police has just been arrested. I do not know any than anybody else what happened in that country, and I look with the greatest concern and alarm on the events that have
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