CONFIDENTIAL
420
Etu al PA
on Vietnamese refugees
fill.
RECORD OF A MEETING BETWEEN MR LUARD, PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARY OF STATE FOR FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH AFFAIRS, AND TAN SRI MUHAMED GHAZALI BIN SHAFIE, MALAYSIAN MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS, HELD AT THE FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE AT 10.20 AM ON FRIDAY 15 DECEMBER.
Mr Evan Luard MP Mr D F Murray CMG Mr B Smith OBE
Mr T J Duggin
Mr P Morgan
Present
HKK 243/1
4
INDEX
Tan Sri Muhamed Ghazali Bin Shafie HE Datuk Abdullah Bin Ali,
REGISTRY NO. filgh Commissioner
29 DEC 1978 Mr A Hasmi
CLS
INDO-CHINESE REFUGEES
1. In welcoming Tan Sri Ghazali, Mr Luard mentioned the debate in the House on Indo-Chinese refugees which he would take following his meeting with the Malaysian Minister. Tan Sri Ghazali expressed interest and said that refugee arrivals in Malaysia had slowed down over the previous few days. Nevertheless, as was indicated in the statistical table which he gave to Mr Luard, the numbers who had arrived in Malaysia so far were considerable. Mr Murray asked whether the reason for the reduced number of arrivals had been the bad weather. Tan Sri Ghazali replied that that was not the case; the last big influx had come during a monsoon period. He thought the main reason was because the Vietnamese Government had responded to the criticism of Malaysia and others. Mr Luard thought Vietnam was concerned about relations with ASEAN countries. While it was necessary to get at the root causes of the refugee exodus, this could present moral difficulties. We should not wish the Vietnamese to stop people leaving altogether, but on the other hand some kind of control was needed, particularly to ensure that the refugees were not obliged to undertake perilous voyages in small and flimsy craft, many losing their lives in the process. Tan Sri Ghazali thought the Vietnamese would not stop them leaving.
2. Mr Luard said the matter was the concern of the whole international community. He was conscious that Thailand and Malaysia had borne the brunt. Did the UNHCR bear the full net cost to Malaysia: Tan Sri Ghazali said that it was difficult to be precise about the costs of coping with the refugees but it was about US $3 per head per day. UNHCR contributed US $1 per head per day: the Malaysian Government had to meet the remaining support costs to cover such things as protection and transport. For example, two army batallions had already been called up from the reserve to protect refugees from the local villagers. But it was not just a question of financial resources to cope with the refugees. Public opinion was against them. One policeman had already died when trying to save a refugee at sea and another had been sericusly injured. The refugees who approached the Malaysian coast generally sank their boats as soon as they had attracted the attention of people on shore. Mr Luard said it would be useful to have an estimate of the cost to Malaysia of coping with the refugees.
CONFIDENTIAL
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