22.
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Tengku Rithauddeen asked if the USSR were involved in Rhodesia. Dr Owen said the USSR supported Nkomo, the Chinese supported Mugabe; the Cubans supported Mozambique. The Russians might now be hedging their bets, and giving some support to Mugabe. But Dr Owen did not think the Rhodesian nationalists would allow themselves to be dominated by Moscow. Mr Nkomo was not a marxist, nor in many ways was Mr Mugabe. The two leaders disliked each other, but any attempt to split them up would lead to civil war. The problem was that there was no single political or military leader with whom we could negotiate; some nationalists were beginning to realise the damage their internal conflicts could do to Rhodesia - but others did not seem concerned.
23. Tengku Rithauddeen said Malaysia believed that recent pressures had forced Vietnam, which had previously tried to main- tain a balance in its relations between China and the USSR, into Russian hands. Perhaps something similar could happen in Rhodesia. Dr Owen said we recognised this danger. That was one reason why Mr Callaghan and he had flown to Kano to meet President Kaunda. But the nationalists, and the countries surrounding Rhodesia, could well be forced into seeking arms from the East. Politically, we could only supply Zambia with weapons for defence and even that had caused a furore.
24.
Tengku Rithauddeen thanked Dr Owen for Britain's help over students. Dr Owen said he remembered that the Malaysian Prime Minister had raised this matter last year. There was no problem with the present Malaysian generation, but the Prime Minister was concerned because the new generation in Malaysia lacked the same close ties with Britain.
25.
Tengku Rithauddeen said he had had a useful discussion with Mr Hartling about refugees. There was much domestic pressure in Malaysia but the Prime Minister had gone out of his way to stress that, with the cooperation of the UNHCR, Malaysia would help the refugees.
26. Dr Owen asked how we should deal with ships like the "Hai Hong". Could they be denied a port of call? Mr Murray commented that we must take account of the degree of connivance of the Vietnamese Government. He enquired what line the Malaysians would take at the Geneva meeting. Tengku Rithauddeen said Malaysia would seek cooperation with countries who could take refugees; he confirmed to Dr Owen that the region needed help to settle refugees outside South East Asia, rather than money. Some countries had made a good deal of noise about the Vietnam
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but it was the region which was suffering from the aftermath.
27. Dr Owen said he regarded the Brussels Ministerial meeting as a success. It had taken a long time to arrange the principle had been agreed during his Presidency. He said that ASEAN's timescale for the next session, to be held in the region, in about two years, was about right. Tengku Rithauddeen said the ASEAN countries valued particularly the political support which the Brussels meeting had symbolised.
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