(DEFENCE AND EXTERNAL AFFAIRS SUB-COMMITTEE)
11 February, 1975.] Mr. A. P. HOCKADAY, C.B., C.M.G.,
[Continued.
Rear Admiral A. S. MORTON, Mr. T. Cullen, Mr. D. M. EVANS, Mr. G. C. B. DODDS, Mr. A. R. M. JAFFRAY, Mr. J. D. BRYARS and Mr. T. C. G. JAMES, C.M.G.
no specific plans in terms of peace time emergencies. We have plans for their use in a major emergency.
142. Would Cyprus have ranked as a major emergency? I think that we would have concentrated the residual military transport force on that par- ticular task, therefore the use of spare civil resources would have been in terms of chartering those to carry out the routine tasks from which you withdraw the military force in order to use it on the emergency.
143. You are satisfied that is always available without any contingency plan- ning, or have you not investigated it?
I would not like to answer that question.
Mr. Finsberg.] Could we have a note on that?
Sir Frederic Bennett.
144. If in fact you had found those extra facilities not substantial enough, or if you were to find them not sub- stantial enough, have you got available, even if you have not got a contingency plan, mandatory powers to get hold of this in times of peace? Have you got the powers to say, this is a time of peace but we still need them and you have got to stop doing what you are doing at the moment and do something else? -May I suggest we cover this point in detail in the note we have undertaken to give you? There are powers of direction available to the Government under the Civil Aviation Act and those nowers can be used, in terms of the present constitu- tion, by the Secretary of State for Trade and the Secretary of State for Defence. I would like to cover in the note the circumstances in which those powers can be brought to bear.
Dr. Miller.
145. I do not see how you can do this without terrible disruption of the com- mitments which civil airlines have. If an emergency occurs, for example, in the height of the summer we could have a situation where literally thousands of people are going to be abandoned if, as you imply, pretty drastic powers are available. So we would like some full explanation of this.(Mr. Hockaday.) I would say that we certainly take the point that Dr. Miller makes and others.
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have been making. But we would feel that this illustrates what must be a basic general proposition underlying the De- fence Review, that if as a result of balancing the range of different con- siderations the Government decides that the capabilities available must be re- duced, this is bound to have some effect on the range of commitments.
an
146. It may be that you can get over that to some extent by longer term arrangements with civil companies. In other words, if you are using them on a regular basis it might be much more possible if emergency crops up suddenly to switch them to the emer- gency. But I cannot see that it would be right, unless, of course, it was an emer- gency which directly affected us in this country, to disrupt these civil services on the basis of an occasional emergency which could upset literally thousands of people?(Mr. James.) May I make two points? First, we do make some use on a regular charter basis of civil aircraft. As I think members of the Committee will know, we have a very successful day in day out service run by a charter com- pany to cover the main trooping require- ment between the U.K. and Germany. But secondly, when one is left at the end of a process such as the Defence Review with a transport force of a given size, even though that force is related to its war time tasks, you wish to make the maximum productive use of it in peace time, and to under use that force and to employ civil aircraft on charter for tasks which that force could itself carry out
is simply a recipe for extra expenditure.
Mr. Finsberg.
147. What I would like to be satisfied on in the note is that assuming this re- duction there are actual plans available to swing into action at twenty four hours notice to fill the gap. The second thing I would like covered in the note if it is possible is to take, for example, the transport command Britannias and VC10s do they differ very much from the civil version? Have they been adapted for use, and if they have and you are now phasing out and you will rely on charter, how can you be certain that you can get the right sort of configura- tion for hospital use or whatever else