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Sir Henry Parkes, K.C.M.G.

594

naval forces in the Australian seas. I am quite sure I should entertain this opinion without any particular recollection of what took place, that it was for the Queen's 19 May, 1882. Government to determine whether they would increase

the ships, and not for us.

5724. The words I have read were the words for which you voted, that is to say, an amendment was proposed to the original words, and then it was agreed that the words proposed to be omitted should be struck out, and that these words should be inserted, so that, practically, at that time you did agree with this Resolution?--Yes; I appear to have voted for that, because it is passed unanimously in the amended form. I do not recollect the circumstances surrounding it at the time. But I am rather surprised now how I could have voted for the Resolution, which expressed the opinion that the Australian squadron should have been increased, because I think my view would be that that was a matter for the Queen's Government to deter- mine; and I expect the mystery is to be solved in this way, that I was not called upon to vote at all, but that I was in the Chair.

5725. New South Wales voted? Yes, but that would be my colleague; my vote would have been of no use. Obviously it would have been rather an un- seemly thing to put my vote as Chairman in a minority of one; but, in fact, I could not have voted at all, even if it was carried. You will observe that there is no- thing particular in my not having individually voted, because you will observe it would have been a small minority of one, and they would not require to be particular about my vote; as I was in the Chair, I probably would not even speak upon the subject; the motion was carried unanimously, and I could not have voted except by what would have been rather an unseemly thing, recording my single vote while in the Chair.

5726. But the objection you have to the first part of this Resolution is against the statement that the strength of the Australian squadron should be increased. That is what you think a matter for the Executive Government to decide, and not for that Committee, but you still think, do you not, that, considering the large Imperial interests involved, the naval defence of these Colonies should continue to be the exclusive charge of the Imperial Government?" In that part of the Resolution, I understand, you still concur?-That is not the way in which I put it, and I would rather not put it in any strong way. I stated that I did not think the public feeling was prepared for any depar- ture from what was regarded as the Imperial rule.

5727. Sir Lintorn Simmons.-With reference to the central depôt of stores; would not that question be very much affected by the break of gauge between the Colonies?-I think you, Sir Lintorn, could form as good an opinion as 1 can on that subject; a break of gauge between Victoria and New South Wales would necessarily involve unloading and reloading the stores. 5728. I was not aware, until you mentioned it, that there was a break of gauge-Yes; and the railways, as they stand, now stand thus-We have a railway of some 460 miles up to the borders of Victoria, and Victoria has a railway from Melbourne, about 175 miles, I think, to the borders of New South Wales; they meet within about 4 miles at this moment. The boundary-line separating them is the River Murray, the distance on the Victorian side is about 3 miles in a very impracticable country-lagoons all the way, requiring a bridge to pass them. The distance on our side is about 1 mile, which is much more practicable, and the track is not broken by those lagoons. The two Colonies have to agree in connecting the railway, 5729. Are the other Colonies adopting your gauge, or the Victorian gauge ?--I think they are adopting a gauge of their own; in Queensland they are.

5730. South Australia has got the New South Wales' gauge?--Yes.

5781. Sir Henry Barkly.The narrow gauge was adopted in New South Wales long ago-twenty-five years ago; they differed from Victoria at starting ?- They differed from Victoria at starting. The question

is going to be settled as far as it can be. When I left Sydney I think the two Governments had agreed to come to some arrangement. We are going to carry our railway to Wodonga, and they are going to bring theirs to Albury, and then we shall run into their station and they into ours.

5732. Sir Alexander Milne.-What is the difference between the gauges ?-4 ft. 8 in. in England, that is our guage, but theirs is 5 feet. In Queensland they have a gauge of 3 ft. 6 in., I think.

5733. Mr. Whitbread.-About the feeling in the Colonies respecting contributions towards the naval expenditure generally, I think you rather based it upon the idea that was prevalent in the minds of the Colonies that it would be a severe blow to England if the trade was cut off between Australasia and the United Kingdom, and that the blow would be so great to us that England ought to take care of the line of shipping. While you describe what consequences would follow properly in England, if that trade were interrupted, does not that cut both ways? Would not that blow be quite as heavy to Australia as to England?-No doubt.

5734. Would it not be heavier ?--I do not think so. I think we could do better without this trade than England could.

5735. That is what I should like you to prove a little? All I meant-and I am afraid too much im- portance is attached to what I said-I spoke with the view of illustration. The words I used were, that if our trade were in any miracle suspended, it would cause some stagnation in England; and all I wanted to do was to bring home to the minds of the Commission the importance of our trade, that is all.

5736. Quite so; we quite follow that to the full, and I do not wish to question you upon it ?—And I wish to state that the opinion in the Colony was, that as our trade was now of great importance, that we are very large customers to England, that Her Majesty's ships could not be much better employed than looking after it as far as necessary.

That is the language I used; I mean I did not imply anything beyond that.

5737. Of course, the answer of the taxpayer in England to that is, "Well, but it is reciprocal." We think that, as at present advised, the blow would be quite as severe to the Australian Colonies, and you tell me now you do not think it would be so severe ?—No, I do not think it would. Suppose, for example, a war broke out that would lay an embargo on this trade, and cut it off altogether, our resources are so great that we should get on pretty well. I am not saying this in a boastful way; but it is a fact that our resources are greater than most Englishmen suppose. We have got everything necessary for our manufactories in the shape of skilled labour, not, of course, in the same successful way as the old country has; but we can produce every- thing we require in the shape of food in one part or other of the Colony, and I have no doubt whatever that, again, supposing that, by a miracle, the supplies from England were arrested, we could do without them, and without any serious suffering; and I do not know but what it would do us good.

5738. Can you give me offhand approximately the proportion of the whole trade of Australian exports with the trade of the United Kingdom ?-I do not think I can state offhand what it is; but I should be quite ready to supply the information if you require it. As far as I am concerned, I think as time advances the Colonies and the mother-country are becoming more intimately related, which I say implies a disposition to bear our fair share of the burdens of the Empire; but I have been asked definitely, as I understand, whether the Colonies would be disposed to bear a share of sup- porting the naval defence now. In answer to that I say I do not think the public feeling is prepared for it.

5739. You are aware of the difference of the incidence of taxation for defensive purposes upon two classes of subjects the colonists, and the people of the United Kingdom?—I do not know that I am. But I do not think that it would alter the illustration I advance that the suspension of the trade would not be a very serious disturbance to us.

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