C
June 26, 1909.]
|
CHINA OVERLAND TRADE REPORT.
an
op-
C
547
Hon. Mr. STEWART-The step will then have been taken, but if this resolution is agreed to now it will remain to be taken.
1
HIS EXCELLENCY-I see your point, but I do not agree with it. I think it is only likely to raise doubt in the mind of tenderers.
The COLONIAL SECRETARY—The tender must be stated exactly.
Hon. Mr. HEWETT-I do not see why you should not call for alternative tenders, and it is just as easy to call for tenders now. The plea put forward by the Colonial Secretary about time getting on, and that we must not waste any more, seems to me a futile one. The Govern- ment have known for the last fourteen months what the intention of the Home Government was, and there is no reason why this bill should not have been before Council zix months ago. We have
were read or recited by delegates debarred from discussing freely the merits of the question as a whole. It seemed LA if unnatural union between religious senti- ment and political expediency were to issue in nothing but a litter of resolutions-still-born. Now, however, we are told that t are is a larger and a happier issue out of the affair--a widening of the bounds of knowledge of the subject dealt with. This Colony will have reasou to feel grateful if the results include a better preciation of the difficulty and complexity of the question dealt with. inasmuch that our difficulties and perplexities, and our uncertainty as to the beneficial result of the drastic measures forced upon us, will be to some extent shared and sympathised with by the wider world. This newly acclaimed prospect of a more widespread knowledge and under- standing of the matter encourages press for the small concession which will be made if Your Excellency can see your way to accepting my amendment
The COLONIAL SEC ETARY-I understand. Sir, that the object of the hon. member's speech Hon. Mr. HEWETT-Knowing what the is to postpone the operation of section 10, clause opposition of the colony is, I think this bill 10, until such time as we may have had consider should have been put before us earlier, and I ation of the estimates for next
think it is a very poor argument that the Gov. Hon. Mr. STEWART-We, of course, knowerment should come forward now and ask us to that we can discuss the present bill after the rush the bill through before a certain date. I estimates, but then it is a fait accompli. We for oue, representing the unofficial members of shall be discussing something which has been the community, wish to make my protest. done. My point was that by a resolution brought up a year ago
asked that we might be allowed to discuss the bill before any
"Section 10 shall not come into operation until it has been approved by a resolution of the Legislative Council subsequent to the passing of the Appropriation Bill for 1910." I beg the Government to consider whether this suggestion does not offer a reasonable means of compromise between the unofficial and official positions in this matter. The official position I take to be this. Until tenders for the new farm have been received it is impossible to ascertain the direct loss to revenue due to closing the divans in March next Until this direct loss has thus been ascertained | it is impossible to approach the Home Authorities with a request more narrowly to define the promised contribution towards it. To arrive at the exact sum of the direct loss it is necessary to get the new tenders in. To obtain these it is necessary to make the new conditions known. In order to make the new conditions known this Bill must be passed. That, as I understand it, is the official position, as revealed in the debate on the second reading. The objection to it, from the unofficial point of view, is that this method of making known the new terms ignores the protest contained in the resolution unanimously supported a year ago by the unofficial members against any steps being taken to carry out the order announced in Parliament on the 6th before this Council shall have been called upon to consider the methods by which it is proposed to readjust the burden of taxtion" If this Bill goes through in its present form it will be an irrevocable step taken before we have had an opportunity of consider-steps were taken. ing those methods. But if its present form were to be altered in the manner I suggest, by the insertion of a clause making the con- templated step subject to a subsequent resolu- tion in Council, this objection would be removed. It may be urged against this
that unless Section 10 is made absolute at
|
once an element of uncertainty would enter into the bargain with the now farmer. But if the terms of the advertisement for the tender are fixed and definite I do not see that there would be any such risk. There would be no risk to prospective farmers. The terms offered to them would be just the same as if the clause were made absolute now. And there is no real risk to Government, inasmuch as Government has absolute power and can exercise it on the occasion of the eventual resolution in Council, with just as much effect as now, and with a much better grace. That is the point. I invite some concession to the difficulty of our position, the unofficial position. The practical benefit of the concession which I suggest may not be apparent to those who lightly regard the position of the unofficial members of this Council; it will be best appreciated by those who imagine that we are intended to represent the wishes of the community. To display consideration to- wards the wishes of the community as re- presented by us in this particular case-and in the general question we can claim to have the community behind us-would have a certain practical effect towards making the policy palatable. That was held to be a desirable object a year ago. Now that we are face to face with the material consequences it is no less desirable. Indeed, the community may be thought to have a claim to be treated with greater consideration now than then. It is hateful to be reduced by circumstances into haggling about money when appealed to ou grounds of paramount duty to civilization. But the duty that lies nearest us in this Council is duty to this Colony, and my conception of that is to claim the right to discuss matters affecting our revenue, before, and not only after, they have been settled over our heads. The Colony must have been relieved in a measure to learn from a telegram in the morning paper that the Opium Conference has had the effect of suggest- ing to the world the great difficulty of the opium question. The authority for this state- ment is the Secretary of State for the Colonies. The difficulty thus revealed to the world was seen and stated long ago, in certain remote parts of the world, among others in this Colony. But previous to the receipt of this telegram there was some doubt as to how these difficulties were to be solved, or in any degree removed, by holding a conference which did not confer, a commission which did not inquire, a mere series of formal meetings whereat set speeches
。
We
year.
me
to
The COLONIAL SECRETARY-You want to postpone the operation of section 10.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL-Until Council has approached the Home Government to make good our losses.
The COLONIAL SECRETARY-The hon. member must understand that it is time the preparation of the estimates was begun, but before we do so we must call for tenders for the Opium Farm, and two months' notice must be given in newspapers in order to give a reason- able time to tender. You wish to advertise tentative tenders? I maintain that would be, Sir, from a mercantile point of view a piece of absolute folly, because we would never get a reasonable tender.
Hon. Mr. STEWART-The Government invites tenders on certain conditions. If a man accepts the conditions it is nothing to do with him whether they have yet been made law or not.
The COLONIAL SECRETARY-Most of the conditions of the tender are in law and always have been.
HIS EXCELLENCY-Any discrepancy be tween the form of the tender and the law of the colony is avoided.
Hon. Mr. STEWART—I don't see any objection at all to making a tender in the ordinary way as a tender is made in business. There is nothing
behind the terms that offer.
you
The COLONIAL SECRETARY-What terms are we going to offer?
suspensory
Hon. Mr. STEWART-You offer termis adopt- ing the phraseology from this bill exactly the same as if it weat through without this clause. The unofficial members have asked for that amount of consideration and it should be granted them. It makes no difference to the Government except, as far as I can see, in point of face.
HIS EXCELLENCY-If there was any way of meeting the wishes of the unofficial members the Government would be most glad to adopt it. The only effect would be to place doubt in the mind of a tenderer on a subject in which there is no doubt whatever.
Hon. Mr. STEWART-i he terms of the tender being fixed and definite, a man cannot, as I understand it, have any doubt in his mind of the terms under which he was tendering.
HIS EXCELLENCY-It might be the terms on which he was tendering, but he would still read the debate and think that the holding over of clause 10 implied a doubt.
Hon. Mr. STEWART-If he read the debate he would be in no doubt.
HIS EXCELLENCY-I think the unofficial members will have every opportunity of discuss ing this on the budget debate, when I shall have the duty and pleasure of bringing forward the statement of revenue which it is anticipated we shall receive from opium.
rather been taken unawares, and we are asked to this bill although the Government are
pass perfectly well aware that we are opposed to it.
The COLONIAL SECRETARY-You knew a year ago that it was to be passed, and have had plenty of time to discuss it.
Hou Jr. GRESSON-I cannot see why you want a definite tender. If you agree to do what we are asking you can get all your figures to- gether, and the Treasurer can get on and prepare the estimates. I cannot see how it affects a man who is going to tender to make the thing legal; it does not seem to me to make the slightest difference.
HIS EXCELLENCY-There is no question about making the tender legal. What we wish is not to create any doubt in the mind of a tenderer that the divans will be kept open as a result of this clause being held over.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL-It is a question of destroying the value of the offer to be made. Section 10 deals with the prohibition of opium divans.
HIS EXCELLENCY-We have not only got to make up the budget, but accept or decline a tender. That is to say, that the Government has to accept a tender although the Council has not passed a resolution enabling it to do so,
Hon. Mr. STEWART-Outside the hope is that there may be some modification of section
10.
HIS EXCELLENCY-I don't think you take my point. As a matter of principle the Govern- ment, being compelled to make up its estimates, would have to definitely accept a tender while the Legislative Council had not yet been able to do so. A resolution would be still pending bringing into operation that clause. That is to say, the Government would have to act ultra
vires.
Hou. Mr. GRESSON-Cannot you put a clause in to accept the tender some months afterwards P
HIS EXCELLENCY-I fail to see where the
object comes in you have in view, because by what has already been said at this table, the only object is to meet the question again. You can say all that has to be said on the debate on the estimates.
Hon. Mr. HEWETT-Presumably you won't put your estimates before the Council for some months. In the meantime the debate will go home to the Secretary of State and he may be induced to modify the views already expressed.
Hon. Dr. Ho KAI-When we receive tenders we shall know what we have to lose. Then it will be easy enough to telegraph home and ascertain whether we shall have a substantial part of that loss made good to us.
HIS EXCELLENCY-The Government, as I endeavoured to point out, has got to accept a tender before making up the estimates, which we could not do if the resolution was carried.
Hon. Mr. STEWAT--Then we should be discussing a thing after it has been done.
IS EXCELLENCY It practically has been done already. We have the definite assurance of the Secretary of State that he will make good a substantial part of the loss.
Hon. Mr.G ESSON-If the Secretary of State so kind to us as to say he will give us this substantial amount, it seems to me that it would be very simple to give it a name.
!
No comments yet.
Private notes are available after approval.