"
Jane 24, 1907.]
would say this: It seems to me that it would be a fair compensation that the owners on each side of the house to be pulled down should contribute one third each towards the cost, and the Government the rest. This is rather a rough idea of my own. The owners of houses on either side, I suggest, should con- tribute in the proportion I mention, because no doubt they will benefit considerably by this, in that they will be able to have a consider able number of windows laterally pat into their houses, a number of rooms opening into external air and legal according to the public Health Ordinance. Therefore it is only right Sir, that they should contribute to this matter, and I see from a proposal laid before the Council at the last meeting that the Government intenda apparently to allow in case of lateral windows certain concessions with reference to space and internal air space. With reference, Sir, to it being right and proper for the Government to grant some compensation, I would refer your Excellency to section 38 of the English Public Health Act of 1875. It is clearly laid down there, Sir, that if radical sanitary improvements are ordered by the local authorities, owners of property are to receive com pensation. In the present instance I don't think, in view of the fact that owners of houses on either side gain considerable benefit, and in view of the fact that the Government are prepared to meet them, that all these alterations should be carried out at the public expense. I should like, Sir, before quitting this subject, to say again that this figure which your Excellency mentioned, which I suppose would include the whole of the cost of every third house pulled down, does not em to me formidable in view of the immense gain to be accomplished. The Council of this Colony last year devoted a sum of a million or so of dollars to railways in the middle of China. If, Sir, we can do that, I don't see why, when a loan is proposed for a very Lecessary publio matter here in our midat, the Government should pull & long face and tell us that this is a poor and bankrupt Colony, and cannot afford the loan for these urgent public works. I know, Sir, that is the usual attitude of the Govern ment. Something must be done, and I think your Excellency will agree with me that the sooner it is done the better, and I don't think, Bir, with all due deference to the Government that any of the proposals laid on the table at the last meeting of council at all meet the case. Your Excellency truly pointed out at the last meeting of the Council that it is most desirable, with a view to the preven- tion of plagas and other diseases which cause great losses to the Colony, that if we are going to attack the burning question we should attack it with spirit and settle it once for all. With the Government proposal to settle it once for all, it would take 30 or 40 or 50 years to effect any considerable improvement. I think, Sir, we recognise that this is a very important question, and it is a question which cannot be attacked too soon. I ventured to bring forward these remarks Sir, because it seemed to nie, reading as I did about this most urgent question, that it was desirable something should be laid before the Council for discussion. And I venture to bring before the Council certain point in which, with all due respect, I differ from your Excellency's view; that is, that every improvement should be paid for by the owners of houses.
His EXCELLENCY-You cannot say that in face of the Statute of 1903, which shows that a very large propertion of cases, in fact in all cases, where improvements are made compensa. tion is given by the Government.
Hon. Mr. POLLOCK-Some are, Sir, some are
not.
His EXCELLENCY-You said just now all
are.
Hon. Mr. POLLOCK-Perhaps your Excellency is right there. I do not want to deprive you of the credit of scoring a point.
HIS EXCELLENOY-I do not want to score points. I want sosarscy.
CHINA OVERLAND TRADE REPORT,
houses are rebuilt, to insist on the provision of lateral windows.
His EXCELLANCY—And to grant- Hon. Mr. POLLOCK-And to grant certain exemptions which will be beneficial to the tenants.
His EXCELLENCY-The landowner, I sub mit, will lose nothing.
Hon. Mr. POLLLOOK-I should like to see that worked out; I have very great doubts with reference to the question.
The COLONIAL SECRETARY-There is no bill before you,
Hon. Mr. POLLOCK-I must ask that the Colonial Secretary be not allowed to make these remarks. I am much astonished that he is. The COLONIAL Secretary-There is no bill before you, I said.
HOL. Mr. POLLOCK-It is a very serious thine the way in which these proposals were received by your Excellency, apparently to avert a discussion on the question. I was simply astounded at your Excellency telling us that this was one of the most important things we had to deal with and that we should try to arrange the matter once for all, and then not desiring to hear me on the subject.
The Hoo, Mr. Howerr-Your Excellency, I understand that the official view of the case it that we are discussing the second reading of the Bill entitled an Ordinance to amend the Pablie Health and (Building Ordinance, 1903. Tbao being so it appears to me that although the Bil at the moment before the Council is dealing only with a very small mattor, it is an amending bill for the main Ordinance of 1903,
His EXCELLENCY-Is the hon. member going to deal with the memorandum generally !' The Hon. Mr. HEWETT-I wish to make some remarks in connection with the proposed amendment and on the amendments generally of the Bill of 1903,
His EXCELLENCY-Then I must rule the hon, member out of order.
the one
Was
The Hon. Mr. HEWETT-Your Excellency His EXCELLENCY-Exouse me. I allowed the last speaker to proceed because he insisted upon criticising certain remarks on definite question of cubicles which foolish enough to think the Council would allow me to speak on at the last meeting. Apparently the Council was not in favour of that course, but did not like to intervene. It is quite intelligible that the hon. member should desire to revert to that question, bat I cannot allow you now to try to cover the whole field or any part of it outside the oubicle question or the bill before the Council. The Hon. Mr. HEWETT-Your Excellency. I do not wish to say anything beyond that which was said by the hon. member opposite. I wish to make one reference to the main Ordinance of 1903, mainly because I do not wish to run the risk later on when the Bill becomes law of being told by members of the Government that
W8 allowed au amending ordinance to pass without any remarks on our part. I only wish to emphasise what the hon. member has said; if Your Excellency insists upon ruling me out of order I-
His EXCELLENCY-I do not know what the point is on whic you wish to speak-on what. section?
The Hon. Mr. HEFETT—I am going to speak on section 175, sub-section 4.
His EXCELLENCY-Then you are in order. The Hon. Mr. HEWETT-I beg your Ex- celleney's pardon: I am speaking on the whole section.
His EXCELLENCY-Very well.
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satisfactory. I merely wish to draw attention to the fact that the Publio Health Ast of 1875 which admits the principle that where a man soffers damage, that is to say, where his property is depreciated by sanitary re- forms forced upon him, he is entitled to receive compensation.
His EXCELLENCY-If the property is in- sanitary?
were
The Hon Mr. HEWETT—That is the question to be decided. I would remind Your Excell- eney that there are an enormous number of pro- perties which were perfectly sanitary up to the 20th February, 1903, and which immediately rendered insanitary by the passing of this very drastio ordinance. The comp n- sation which the property owners dem nded as their right was set forth and fully dealt with in the petition to the Government in December of the previous year. Property suddenly, by the passing of this Aot, was rendered insanitary. If the Govern- ment attempt to shelter themselves behind the fact that the houses are insanitary because they do not comply with the new ordinance, then all i can say is that the Government is acting with far less justice than the Home Government, which admitted this principle 30 or 40 years ago. I think it was necessary to make these few remarks in order to prevent possible misconception in the future.
The Hon Mr. OSBORN E-Your Excellency. In the absence of any statement of objects and reasons for the Bill before this Council, I wondered why it had been brought forward. With Your Excellency's explanation to-day I see that it has been brought forward for a deficite purpose-that is, to get over s tem- porary diffloul ty. I desire also to place on record that I reserve to myself the right on a future occasion to address the Council on the subject generally and not to-day.
The COLONIAL SCRETARY-Honourable members-anofficial hon. members do n t seem to be aware of the right they have to forward notice of resolutions on any point whatever that they wish to raise, at the proper time preceding any meeting of the Council in which they can discurs any question in the public interest. There is, however, I maintain, no occasion now to discuss the question of cubicles, because that is not involved in the bill under discussion. Before proceeding to take the division on the second reading of the Bill I would like to make a few remarks in reply to those passed by the hon. member nominated by the Chamber of Com- merce on the occasion of the first reading. If ( am correct, he said, speaking on behalf of Mr. Hooper and other European owners
The Hon. Mr. HEWETT-Your Excellency, I only spoke on behalf of Mr. Hooper,
The COLONIAL SECRETARY-Mr. Hewett is reported to have said "I do not think that it was quite right that the Government should take advantage and make capital out of a letter written in a moment of misconception by a gentleman who had some five
years later been a member of the Commission,' Now this charge practically amounts to one of unfairness against the Government. The words "should take advantage and make ospital out of" are, I ma intain, unwarrantable. The simple facts of the case are: When the Government decided that this letter should be laid on the table, it was not in the slightest degrea aware that there was any contemplated repudiation by Mr. Hooper, or on behalf of other European
landowners.
There was no desire in the mind of the Government to convict Mr. Hooper of any inconsistency in regard to the matter. The paper would have been laid on the table even if it had been signed by any person other than Mr. Hooper and if he had not been a member of the Commission it would still have been laid on the table. This notion was taken without any arriere pensée on the part of the Government in order to strengthen their position and to show that all possible concessions on the question of compensation had already been made. As regards the question of the value of Mr. Hooper's letter after its repudiation I have only to point out that the circumstances are somewhat sa follows: On the 28th September, 19:2, the European landowners petitioned the Government "and asked for compensation. They quoted cases in regard to various matters. One was Knight »,
The Hon. MR. HEWETI-The remarks I have to make are, as I explained, to protect myself in the future from the possibility of misunderstanding. I do not want an amending or dinance of this kind to pass without a few words being said on one of the most important sections of the ordinance. My hon. and learned colleague has already referred to section 308 of the Public Health Act of 1875. I did not now he was going to do so, and I brought a copy of the Aot. I will read the section. (Read the Bon. Mr. POLLOCK-But with reference section referring to compensation.) The point I to SB in the Government proposals, I
wish to make, Your excellency, is, carrying on fail to see there Sir, reference to any the discussion which took place last week in this compensation. I would draw special attention chamber, that a large section of the community to that section. This is what the Govern- is not antisfied with the compensation ment say: (reads). Well, Sir, apparently provided for in the existing ordinance Moses, July 1902. They were informed in reply the Government proposes, when than contiguous and which
Your Exxcellency considers to their petition that the Government had already
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